Same project, different part. This piece is deceiving. I thought it would be easy at first, but the more I worked on it, the more I realized how tough it is. Any tips?
My progress so far, before running into problems with the cutout for the circular piece:
Having a hard time keeping that top part nice and rounded with the bottom edges staying sharp.
Perna, now that I look at it, it's not as bad as I thought it was last night. I think the boolean technique will work better for that cutout though. Thanks Nam!
Try chamfering the top edges as well (like the concept), instead of letting the subdivision dictate your curve. On a concept this angular/planar i'd find every excuse to curve/round something out personally.
Using a boolean for that shape seems to be faster at creating a clean edge there, rather than using chamfer or control edges. I will have the time to figure it out tomorrow after work.
Ended up going straightforward, and not using a boolean. But I followed the edge flow of Nam's model after he/she used the boolean. So, thanks for that Nam! I was having a tough time getting the curve on the cutout to look right, while keeping the front edge sharp underneath, and rounded on top. Overall, it was a great little exercise and makes me feel more confident on trying difficult models in the future.
Nice but it's far from ideal. And edgeflow around the cylindrical part is wrong. See the direction around the cylindrical part, that should go to the center of the cylinder, not go straight. And you'll need extra supporting loops to tighten up your shading. That would be a better approach.
igi, your cutout looks nice and your edgeflow is cleaner than mine, but as a whole, it doesn't really follow the concept.
I know, just modeled an isolated part of the model to demonstrate how to improve shading and edgeflow overall. Hope some people find it useful since this is one of purposes of the community.
I know, just modeled an isolated part of the model to demonstrate how to improve shading and edgeflow overall. Hope some people find it useful since this is one of purposes of the community.
I forgot about the circular part at the base of the knife that connects to the handle when I was modelling this. Should I start over? I didn't really think of the topology at the end when I did it.
I started modelling this but forgot about the circular end at the handle part. Is it worth to continue modelling this or to start over? How should I begin this or fix this?
and pretty close to done with all of the major hi poly pieces, but I have a question on creating screws and the little dimples that can form around them. What's the fastest way to create these? Zbrush?
using floaters will probably be the fastest method for making those screws if you plan to bake it down.
A word of warning though if you do plan to bake this into a LP using floaters. The "thicker" the screw, the more you have to push your cage, making it less accurate and prone to making warped normals on the edges around the screw.
There are various methods to bypass that problem and can be found around the PC wiki. (edge loops, etc, etc)
Sorry, my post should have been more specific. I'm trying to figure out the fastest way of creating the little dimples or indentations around each screw. The screw itself should be pretty easy for me to model. But I think the little detail around it, as shown in the concept art, really adds to the realism. Such as the rings around each one of these screws:
and pretty close to done with all of the major hi poly pieces, but I have a question on creating screws and the little dimples that can form around them. What's the fastest way to create these? Zbrush?
So a floater can create the illusion of a depth going into the model? I thought a floater could only be used for something being projected away from the model, or on top of it.
As supaclueless said, floaters would work for all the details on that fore grip. The vertical slots, the "Dimples" (cutouts) the screws sit in, and the screw themselves. They key is having the edge of the floater mimic the surface you're trying to fake it on to, so it appears seamless.
Things complicate a touch more when you get into the way your cage projects, and baking AO. But you can cross that bridge when you get to it.
I made a tut on floating geo a while back. I use Blender in the tut but the theory is the same no matter which app you use. http://eat3d.com/free/floating_geo
Aside from inevitably tight/thin edges, I don't see the problem.
Do you mean for the lowpoly? Or is it not sub dividing correctly?
Not a lowpoly.
This example does the job all right, but the problem is when i'm working in Softimage and that bastard-piece-of-software really lagging on me when the scene gets over 500k polys (and i actually have pretty good rig). And usually the rails are to blame.
So is there a good way to make nice rails with less polys?
This example does the job all right, but the problem is when i'm working in Softimage and that bastard-piece-of-software really lagging on me when the scene gets over 500k polys (and i actually have pretty good rig). And usually the rails are to blame.
500k polys shouldn´t be a problem for the viewport, are you using the High Quality Viewport or the normal shaded?
And are the 500k the normal or the subdivided mesh (+ key, or override)?
500k polys shouldn´t be a problem for the viewport, are you using the High Quality Viewport or the normal shaded?
And are the 500k the normal or the subdivided mesh (+ key, or override)?
It's the usual shaded view and no subdivision. It's not lagging when i move the camera or anything like that, but it does when i'm welding points or just work with geometry, for example i gotta wait for 10-15 seconds until a vert is welded, very annoying. I guess i could disconnect the areas of interest but sometimes it's not achievable.
Fridock: No time for a paintover, but you need to read up on control loops. Yours seem to be nearly randomly placed. You would lower the polycount (which you're asking about) AND make it look a lot better if you made control loops the standard way (which is simply: one edge on either side of hard corners)
But, why on earth would your cage mesh be 500k triangles? That's crazy
Sorry about that, it's actually not 500k ( i mean a scene i'm working on). The problem mesh cage is 60K tris.
And i usually do the support edges by myself (with knife tool and etc), didn't know there is a proper way to do it, gotta look it up immediately.
Viewport lag would certainly be a deal breaker for me in ANY app. I would reconsider whatever you're working in, assuming its a software limitation, and not a hardware limitation or a user setting, like WIKI suggested.
Whether this is less or more polies, I don't know. But it seems you're unnecessarily complicating the geo on your model.
Edit: TRIPPLE NINJA'D!
Fridock: I would recommend switching to an app that is more conducive to an efficient workflow if Softimage isn't capable of automatic loop/edge creation.
When it takes to long to weld vertices your modeling stack has reached to many steps. Just freeze the stack to a desired point and you can work fast again
Viewport lag would certainly be a deal breaker for me in ANY app. I would reconsider whatever you're working in, assuming its a software limitation,
It shouldn´t be a problem for softimage, in my opinion its viewport is much faster then the max or maya ones, so its a shame that autodesk killed it...
s6: you've got a bunch of redundant loops there, 1 spit on the side of each rail; and 3 down the center, removing would drop your geo count quite a bit.
Without at least one loop to support your support you won't get a truly planar face and your edge falloff tends to bleed. Which i'm not arguing is of importance on something this small, but I tend to do it anyway out of habbit.
The center edge down the length is just where I symm'd it, which I agree could be removed.
(Gif=Bare Min VS. What I had)
By all means, if you need to optimize your highpoly, go for it. In my opinion though you shouldn't be trying to negotiate these kinds of issues because your app can't handle the cage. Just my .02.
.Wiki The Select All - Select All polygons - Extract Polygons (Delete) - Delete 0 geo objects is a procedure i'm doing every 10 minutes when i'm working in XSI in order to resolve that (also it spams Layers/Passes/Materials quite often too, resulting the lags), but when i do welds on ~50k tris meshes it lags no matter what.
s6
Thanks man!
I guess it is time to switch. But frankly i hate 3dMax, how do people work in there (the key thing is to use plugins?) ? I mean stuff i can do by few clicks in XSI in Max it takes much longer than that. Modo however looks very interesting i might give it a try.
.Wiki The Select All - Select All polygons - Extract Polygons (Delete) - Delete 0 geo objects is a procedure i'm doing every 10 minutes when i'm working in XSI in order to resolve that (also it spams Layers/Passes/Materials quite often too, resulting the lags), but when i do welds on ~50k tris meshes it lags no matter what.
Why are you using this procedure? You could just hit the Freeze M Button to freeze the modeling stack. For me this looks like a bad habit.
s6
Thanks man!
I guess it is time to switch. But frankly i hate 3dMax, how do people work in there (the key thing is to use plugins?) ? I mean stuff i can do by few clicks in XSI in Max it takes much longer than that. Modo however looks very interesting i might give it a try.
Don't make that call just based on my hate. I don't know anything about Softimage. It may be extremely capable, I have no idea. But if you have to hand cut all your loops and your veiwport lags under normal use it sends up red flags to me.
I started modelling this but forgot about the circular end at the handle part. Is it worth to continue modelling this or to start over? How should I begin this or fix this?
I'm modelling in 3dsMax.
Here is my approach on something like this. Start with a cylinder, scale with soft selection on, Align your subtraction objects edges to correspond with your base, BOOLEAN FTW, Weld a couple verts, Do a few insets and cut in some support loops, viola.
Somehow I deleted the smoothed image with no wires, sorry about that.
Ew, nobody likes redoing shit Mike, especially when theres an easier way
Bit more manual work, but a lot faster then redoing;
RealityFix, with some playing around, you can get your supporting geo to look very close to s6's one and work just as well (definitely use his as a guide). Also, this was a very quick paintover, so let me know if theres anything unclear.
^ yeah me too, sometime things get messed up, and the more I try to fix, the more it get worse, so I redo sh!t. not all the time, but a lot of time redo stuff actually save me time and headaches
hey guys, I have this door handle that I modeled but it's bugging me for some reaso. is there any easier or superior way to model this shape than what I chose to do? specifically I find myself having a difficult time forming the geo to the reference image without it looking wonk at the corner
thank you for the advice perna. im doing a side project for work that doesn't require 100% accurate geo, but I'm trying my best to give the appearance of such. i dont know what my problem is but I've been struggling with certain objects that don't appear complex but end up being hard for me to nail down. just looking at how easily you threw that shape together (with wonderful accuracy too) makes me feel a tad embarrassed. i need to keep modeling/practice sub-d modeling.
would you mind showing me how you boxed out the shape before applying turbo-smooth? i made some adjustments to my model and i think it helped, but i think i'm working with too much geo and it's getting messy.
side note: is there an easy way to align verts to a certain angle? as you can see around the L corner i was doing it manually which resulted in some horrible looking topology.
Replies
My progress so far, before running into problems with the cutout for the circular piece:
Having a hard time keeping that top part nice and rounded with the bottom edges staying sharp.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15328&d=1390190633
I know, just modeled an isolated part of the model to demonstrate how to improve shading and edgeflow overall. Hope some people find it useful since this is one of purposes of the community.
A cylinder with 60.
What i did is just an inset and the connect again my vetex.
Gotcha. Thank you, it is helpful.
Thanks
http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18633
Here is my model so far:
I forgot about the circular part at the base of the knife that connects to the handle when I was modelling this. Should I start over? I didn't really think of the topology at the end when I did it.
My references:
http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18633
And what I have modelled so far:
I started modelling this but forgot about the circular end at the handle part. Is it worth to continue modelling this or to start over? How should I begin this or fix this?
I'm modelling in 3dsMax.
and pretty close to done with all of the major hi poly pieces, but I have a question on creating screws and the little dimples that can form around them. What's the fastest way to create these? Zbrush?
Zoomed in view of a few screws on this rifle:
A word of warning though if you do plan to bake this into a LP using floaters. The "thicker" the screw, the more you have to push your cage, making it less accurate and prone to making warped normals on the edges around the screw.
There are various methods to bypass that problem and can be found around the PC wiki. (edge loops, etc, etc)
Floaters.
Things complicate a touch more when you get into the way your cage projects, and baking AO. But you can cross that bridge when you get to it.
Google search helped me find it just now. Either way, thanks for your help guys!
http://eat3d.com/free/floating_geo
Usually my rails getting more polys/geo than the rest of the gun/model
Do you mean for the lowpoly? Or is it not sub dividing correctly?
Not a lowpoly.
This example does the job all right, but the problem is when i'm working in Softimage and that bastard-piece-of-software really lagging on me when the scene gets over 500k polys (and i actually have pretty good rig). And usually the rails are to blame.
So is there a good way to make nice rails with less polys?
And are the 500k the normal or the subdivided mesh (+ key, or override)?
It's the usual shaded view and no subdivision. It's not lagging when i move the camera or anything like that, but it does when i'm welding points or just work with geometry, for example i gotta wait for 10-15 seconds until a vert is welded, very annoying. I guess i could disconnect the areas of interest but sometimes it's not achievable.
Sorry about that, it's actually not 500k ( i mean a scene i'm working on). The problem mesh cage is 60K tris.
And i usually do the support edges by myself (with knife tool and etc), didn't know there is a proper way to do it, gotta look it up immediately.
Whether this is less or more polies, I don't know. But it seems you're unnecessarily complicating the geo on your model.
Edit: TRIPPLE NINJA'D!
Fridock: I would recommend switching to an app that is more conducive to an efficient workflow if Softimage isn't capable of automatic loop/edge creation.
The center edge down the length is just where I symm'd it, which I agree could be removed.
(Gif=Bare Min VS. What I had)
By all means, if you need to optimize your highpoly, go for it. In my opinion though you shouldn't be trying to negotiate these kinds of issues because your app can't handle the cage. Just my .02.
The Select All - Select All polygons - Extract Polygons (Delete) - Delete 0 geo objects is a procedure i'm doing every 10 minutes when i'm working in XSI in order to resolve that (also it spams Layers/Passes/Materials quite often too, resulting the lags), but when i do welds on ~50k tris meshes it lags no matter what.
s6
Thanks man!
I guess it is time to switch. But frankly i hate 3dMax, how do people work in there (the key thing is to use plugins?) ? I mean stuff i can do by few clicks in XSI in Max it takes much longer than that. Modo however looks very interesting i might give it a try.
Don't make that call just based on my hate. I don't know anything about Softimage. It may be extremely capable, I have no idea. But if you have to hand cut all your loops and your veiwport lags under normal use it sends up red flags to me.
I'd listen to Wiki, he's a smart dude.
I don't know anything
Here is my approach on something like this. Start with a cylinder, scale with soft selection on, Align your subtraction objects edges to correspond with your base, BOOLEAN FTW, Weld a couple verts, Do a few insets and cut in some support loops, viola.
Somehow I deleted the smoothed image with no wires, sorry about that.
Bit more manual work, but a lot faster then redoing;
RealityFix, with some playing around, you can get your supporting geo to look very close to s6's one and work just as well (definitely use his as a guide). Also, this was a very quick paintover, so let me know if theres anything unclear.
I definitely agree with Darko though! If you can work with what you have do it! Save time, save head aches.
Also that corner appears to be more rounded, especially at the top and bottom. So you cold pull those vertices away from the corner.
would you mind showing me how you boxed out the shape before applying turbo-smooth? i made some adjustments to my model and i think it helped, but i think i'm working with too much geo and it's getting messy.
side note: is there an easy way to align verts to a certain angle? as you can see around the L corner i was doing it manually which resulted in some horrible looking topology.