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polycounter lvl 10
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Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
Hey guys! I've come to realize that among all the disciplines in game art, painting textures is by far my favorite :) So I'm starting this thread with the intent of getting feedback while I build a texture library. Eventually, I want to explore all different kinds of surfaces - so far my portfolio consists of some pretty standard ones (stone, wood, dirt - I haven't even tried metal yet!), so I'd like to add some more variety. Any suggestions for interesting surfaces to try, that would be awesome :]:] Mostly I want to make tileables, but here and there I might texture a small, unique prop to change it up. I plan for this thread to be a long-term one that I keep adding to, not really looking for an end, just improvement.

Here's a stone texture I'm working on right now:

Isze5.jpg

Critique and comments welcome.

Replies

  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    there is some inconsistency on how lighting landing on this "\" slant is treated, on the long /______________\ ledge in th bottom middle area, else where on the texture it has the same lighting or slightly darker than the flat surface, but there's again other small spots where its lighter.

    if you are doing this just for a library I'd keep the lighting pretty consistency direction wise so its easier to swap and throw stuff in, you want to try to make the lighting on textures match the real lighting in the enviroment.
  • TicoTaco
    Just a quick question. When you make a texture like this, say a brick floor/wall. Do you use any base geometry to define the shape (AO/UV maps.)? Or do you just go right into photo shop and start from a blank doc?
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    Thank you ZacD, I will fix that spot you pointed out and look out for other inconsistencies in my lighting. I plan to keep a consistent top-left lighting throughout these textures.

    TicoTaco - I start from a blank doc
  • TicoTaco
    Interesting, love you work! Good luck on this. :)
  • Gannon
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    Gannon interpolator
    sweeeeeeeeeet, This should be really fun to watch your process. I really enjoyed your livestream videos.

    A couple of the blue stones feel really soft and rounded; It doesn't come off as stone but some fuzzy blue blur. I think if you just picked a couple of parts of the to define the edge a little more it wouldn't be so distracting.
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks TicoTaco :)

    Gannon - I'll work on those fuzzy blurs haha - I used a soft brush as a start for faking some deeper insets, but I will try to make them more convincing/less distracting now - thank you for the crit!
  • Lucas Annunziata
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    Lucas Annunziata polycounter lvl 13
    I would really love to see what you could come up with using handpainted diffuse, combined with normal and spec. I think you'd get some really nice results. I dunno, might be something to experiment with.
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    darbeenbo - Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I plan to make spec and normals for these as well! I've recently begun learning how to hand-paint normals (which I find really fun, call me crazy), so these textures will be getting the full treatment :D
  • Hayden Zammit
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    Hayden Zammit polycounter lvl 12
    Hand painting normal maps? That sounds like hell.

    I think it looks great. I live how you've got some tiles that are sunken in. Maybe try accentuation that. At the moment it looks like just a few are pushed directly down. It might pay to experiment with having some that are pushed down at one end only, if that makes sense.

    Keep it up. Awesome work as always.
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    Ahh, thanks Hayden! I'll give that a shot - def sounds like that could add more interest.
  • JR
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    JR polycounter lvl 15
    I've already said I'm your fan? :P
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    By hand painting normal maps do you mean making a heightmap for crazybump or nDo2?
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    Amauri - Only 3 (or was it 4...?) times already. Nahh, I'm YOUR fan x]

    ZacD - No, I'm painting it by sampling directly from the normal sphere. I feel like I have more control this way, and get a cleaner map- no lumpy edge artifacting that sometimes results from the filters. I will use Crazybump for some subtle surface detail though.
  • KennyTies
    Im really interested in seeing how you paint your normals. Keep up the great work! Cant wait to see where you take the stone texture as well.
  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 14
    You're painting it directly from the normal sphere? O_o that sounds like an insane amount of work. I'd rather go for painting directly in greyscale and taking heightmap to normal map generation into consideration when doing it.

    Would love to see an example of yours :)
  • Serith
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    Serith polycounter lvl 9
    Fantastic as always. Have you ever painted textures in ZBrush?
  • Scythe
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    Scythe greentooth
    sweet jeebus, I was already enticed in your other thread, i might follow this one seriously now.

    First of all : Awesome work, love the flow of yor texture, I like the painty feeling.

    Next : I feel like the stone could need some detailling. I think sharpening the lights around the knock and bruises. I think adding a little more contrast could do some good too. Last, the yellow/orange stones look to me like they're a little higher than the other, if so, the shadow could be a little stronger on the inside stones.

    Keep up the beast work !
  • Darkleopard
    Im jealous as always. You must try metal! Maybe i can learn to handpaint it by watching your very talented self. I cant get anywhere with my darn stove.

    Will be watching ;)
  • Jeff Parrott
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    Jeff Parrott polycounter lvl 19
    Great idea Jessica on doing a bunch of textures. One thing to keep in mind is that these will all be created independently, and at different times. So the style, quality, etc might vary. If you try stuffing these in a scene together they probably won't merge up well. At the very least you'll have to go back and rework some of them. Just something to think about.

    The old school hand painting normal maps thing is cool. It's super unpredictable though. It's probably easier to paint a height map and run that through nDO/CrazyBump. But I'm super looking forward to your take on it. Livestream that so I can watch what you end up doing please. :D

    http://dev.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53626

    The ground texture you have is good. Like Gannon says the blue stones don't match. Also the values are all around each other. I would push some brighter brights and darker darks in the texture. Try running a levels adjustment over this and knocking down the flatline areas.
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    Darkleopard, Kenny - Thanks!

    Chris - Thank you for the advice - I will make a couple normal-sphere painted maps, a couple grayscale ones, and then compare the qualities :)

    Serith - No, I haven't tried ZBrushing textures yet, but I'd like to sometime throughout the course of this thread!

    Scythe - Thanks very much for the critique.

    Jeff - Thanks for the thought! I had taken that into consideration. For now I'd just like to focus on each texture by itself, but if I did want to put these together in a scene one day, I agree I'd probably have to rework them for cohesiveness. Also I will try to record the normal map painting, and thanks for the critiques on my stone. I still struggle a good deal with getting a good value range; hopefully I've improved it with my update below. Let me know if you think it still needs pushing!

    Slowly but surely, progress! Added some surface detail and tried to push contrast in value levels. I feel like I may have over-saturated the oranges when making them darker . . . thoughts?

    206bx.jpg

    And a before and after thingy for your reference:

    iHtTo.gif

    Also, here's a little chair I sketched and modeled for the next texture I wanna practice - wood. Critique and comments welcome on design and poly-usage:

    zpy2e.png

    1G12P.jpg

    Thanks in advance!

    Jessica
  • salacious_Crumb
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    salacious_Crumb polycounter lvl 11
    Looks good to me! (this is aimed at anyone who hand paints) I've been wondering, when hand painting, do you use filters at all, or is that cheating? Do you use multiply or things like that?
    Also, the stone texture, is it for a wall or floor, and would that change the lighting and shadow information much?
  • EiGHT
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    EiGHT polycounter lvl 10
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 12
    You know, if you aren't going to have/make mistakes in your work, how are we supposed to Crit it? ;P

    As for the Normal painting idea, just remember that Normals and Spec compensate each other more then anything.
  • Jeff Parrott
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    Jeff Parrott polycounter lvl 19
    The stone is looking a lot better. Really like it.

    Nice chair Jess! Add a few more splits to the back of the chair to smooth out the silhouette. You can probably reduce the polys in the top part of the back too. Nice piece and design though. The little cylinder on the side I would just remove and paint on. There is too many polys in that piece.

    @salacious_Crumb Personally filters aside from sharpen and offset (to tile) I don't use. Not that it's cheating but that I can't use filters and make the textures look decent. Where the texture is used always changes the lighting and shadow information a ton. The same can be said for location. If it's near a light/volcano/etc or just in a standard area/room.
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    Looking good.

    I think the one thing on the texture is still that the 'deep set' stones just look different.

    I think they still need that sharp beveled highlight like the rest, but maybe just less light/thinner highlight. Just so that top edge still has definition. Right now they just look rounded off/heavily shaded evenly from all sides.
  • daphz
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    daphz polycounter lvl 13
    awesome stuff!
    On that chair I think you can remove a few edge loops on the arms and other places, and keep the silhouette looking nice.
  • KennyTies
    Awesome Update on the rock's its really starting to pop! I agree with daphz and jeffro about being able to get rid of a few edge loops. Correct me if Im wrong but couldnt you make the legs one poly and get rid of all the edge loops. Keep up the awesome work!
  • njc6425
    Looking good! ive always loved your texture work its like your own spin on hand painted textures and i absolutely love it! Also can't wait to see how the hand painted normal map comes out :) Sounds like an insane amount of work but like you said you will have complete control on how it turns out and at least you have your diffuse to work off of so that should make it a lot easier, cant wait to see other textures :) really wanna see how that chair comes out :)
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    salacious_Crumb - Agreed with Jeff that using filters is not cheating, but it's not something I'd ever use and just call the texture done. They could be good for helping to set up a base layer, though I've not tried that yet.

    EiGHT - YESSIR

    Ace_Angel - Thanks for the reminder :)

    Baddcog - Will get on that! I appreciate the crit.

    njc6425 - Thanks for the encouraging comments ^_^

    Jeff, Denny, KennyTles - yay for the optimization suggestions!! x] - I was able to cut over 100 tris while maintaining the silhouette. New geo:

    Uzler.jpg

    Here are some colors. Critique and comments welcome:

    zKSqF.png
  • njc6425
    love the idea of an old chair thats kind of decaying (with the moss and stuff) i personally prefer more saturated colors, but thats my pref....could also be my screen :P
  • KennyTies
    Chairs looking better! Glad I could help, Keep up the great work!
  • Isaiah Sherman
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    Isaiah Sherman polycounter lvl 14
    You're setting yourself up for trouble when you create tiling textures with lighting that is not direct, particularly for enviornment textures. Your painting shows lighting information coming from the left....

    Why would you not want to do that? Because if any other artist on your team (even yourself) uses this texture anywhere else in the world, they would never get their UVs laid out in the exact same direction as you.

    Also, what if the cuts in the geo conflict with the direction/alignment of the lighting on the texture and the direction of the sun?

    Rule of thumb is when you make hand painted objects / character, you must paint top-down lighting, and when making tiling environmental textures, you must use straight-on lighting (you can sometimes get away with top-down lighting). This way if any artist uses your texture anywhere else in the world, you won't have conflicts with lights.
  • Isaiah Sherman
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    Isaiah Sherman polycounter lvl 14
    Did a quick paint over to show you. It helps your shapes pop more. I also did a soft airbrush around major shapes to fake a bit of AO.

    This will help create the illusion of depth a bit more too. Have your raised, flat surfaces be the brighter areas and your slanted / receding surfaces be darker.

    tilingCritique.gif
  • RAWTalent
  • Scythe
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    Scythe greentooth
    Wow Haiasi, nice comments and tips, definitely useful !

    Can't wait too see what's next, Jessica. Show moar textures.
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    njc6425, KennyTles, RAWTalent, Scythe - Thanks!

    Haiasi - Thanks so much for the explanation and paintover :] As you said lighting is rather studio-dependent, I will continue to paint from a top left 45-degree angle to cater to some of the studios in my area. But I definitely understand what you are saying about lighting conflicts and glad that you have made me of aware of this.

    Update! - my stone texture with spec and normals. Also, I recorded my process for the normals (went overboard with the editing ... lol xD):

    Render:

    Xh5Ub.jpg

    Diffuse:

    XcRWs.jpg

    Spec:

    KSA0j.jpg

    Normal:

    hCp6Z.jpg

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NTnaPhONOA"]Hand-painted Normal Map - YouTube[/ame]

    Also, here's my wood diffuse texture so far:

    VGv7y.jpg

    iiEZl.jpg

    Critique and comments welcome! :]
  • Hayden Zammit
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    Hayden Zammit polycounter lvl 12
    Looks pretty awesome. Haven't seen anyone do handpainted normals before. Any chance of a shot with and without them applied. I just wonder how much of an effect the normals are having.

    Keep it up.
  • Jeremy Tabor
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    Jeremy Tabor polycounter lvl 13
    yea, interesting approach on the normals. The marquee selections at the beginning seem so tedious! lol, you are indeed a more patient individual than I.

    Cool Stuff!
  • Twoflower
    Think you would get abit of shadow where the chairs legs meet the thing that you sit on..hmm when i look closely i think you got a shadow there but its barely noticable. Maybe make it a bit stronger?
    Anyway im a big fan of your work and it's always great to find an update by you :) cool tut, will give it a try on my next handpainted texture!
  • ceebee
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    ceebee polycounter lvl 14
    I knew you had something delicious baking in the oven~
  • katana
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    katana polycounter lvl 14
    Jessica,

    Your work is terrific. I can't seem to figure out how it is that a company hasn't picked you up yet. You have enough in your portfolio to get their attention.

    Not really sold on the foliage on the chair legs, what about some planes and some of the stuff you used on the house?

    I also think the legs could do with a solid beam holing the legs together. It doesnt have to be large as you wouldn't want to lose the opening below the seat, but right now the shape of the legs reminds me of building balsa airplanes and how weak the formers (bulkheads( are before gluing on the stringers....

    In any event, I also really like this idea of a long term project to build on and improve your work....

    Either way, you are ready, get it out there in front of the companies.
  • Isaiah Sherman
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    Isaiah Sherman polycounter lvl 14
    Have you tried doing AO bakes? Even if you don't have a high poly, you can still do an AO bake and it'll help pieces fit together nicely. When you have all your textures within the same value range it creates a lot of noise.
  • EiGHT
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    EiGHT polycounter lvl 10
    God bless Jess.This makes me want to spam your facebook with ---> :)'s
  • _DeadPixel_
    That stone normal map turned out nice, setting the bar high Jess. :P
  • njc6425
    awesome video, would you mind letting me know how long it took to complete the final normal map? would you paint your own normal maps everytime from now on or just for particular textures?

    Great work too :)
  • bummzack
    Hey Jessica. Really love your hand-painted textures. I really like your color choices!

    One small critique: Your chair kinda lacks support where a lot of the pressure/weight will be applied. The horizontal running planks make it look really weak and don't give the impression that it could hold a person's weight. I would add some supporting structure, maybe similar to the front of the chair?

    PHzFg.jpg

    I would also be interested in seeing the normal-map in action. I would probably just have used something like CrazyBump to create a normal map from the diffuse and then maybe paint over it.. but that's probably just because I'm lazy :)
  • Scythe
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    Scythe greentooth
    I agree with Bumm on the chair, otherwise wow, nice tuto for the hand painted normal, looks great :) Again, your texture are really good, keep up the good work !
  • imperator_dk
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    imperator_dk polycounter lvl 10
    The result you have here looks pretty much perfect pixel perfect when scaled to 256x256, but in my opinion alot of the pixels are largely wasted at 512x512 or 1024x1024 in its current state.

    If these are the kinds of brushes and strokes you are comfortable working with i would suggest you work at four times your target resolution.
  • Fnitrox
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    Fnitrox polycounter lvl 6
    as always i love your style, and you're doing a great job on these...

    my only critic on the chair would be that some of the veins you painted don't really make sense... like on the chair's feet or the arm support. I mean you have horizontal veins ends in the feet on one side and then vertical veins on the other side......but that might just be really a nitpick :p
  • Razorb
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    Razorb polycounter lvl 15
    Hey Jessica, just out of curiosity why do you want to hand paint your normals? seems overly excessive! :D 2 hours compared to 2 minutes is a big difference in time. props to you for giving it a shot tho! I always get told off for painting my own AO! :p

    sry if this has already been asked!
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