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To outline or not to outline ? Need some help here.

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Ashaman73 polycounter lvl 6
Well, in my current hobby game project me and my friend are at the point of improving the visuals. At the moment we are trying to utilise some outline shaders to push the art in a more stylized direction. Outline shaders are always controversial, so one of us is more or less against them, the other thinks that it helps improving the available assets.

We agreed on letting some other folks take a look at it and help us with some crits. Comments and crits on the following comparision shots would be appreciated (the shots are without any AA applied yet).

screenshotout3.png
screenshotout2.png
screenshotout1.png
screenshotout0.png

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  • Joopson
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    Joopson quad damage
    That outline is subtle enough- but anything more than that typically looks like garbage. So keep it subtle.
    I think this looks good though, so screw that one guy, and just use the outline shader, haha.
  • JR
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    JR polycounter lvl 15
    No outline, please.
  • switz
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    switz polycounter lvl 10
    I think the fact that your textures are hand-painted, the outline doesn't hurt. Just don't let them get out hand!
  • theslingshot
    With the style you're going for i'd use the subtle outline as well.
  • Jeremy Wright
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    Jeremy Wright polycounter lvl 17
  • Neox
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    Neox veteran polycounter
    good luck once you add some particles ;)
    unless they are alpha tested and therefore get a sorting, all your outline will render in front on them, or whater, or anything with a transparent shader :/
  • Axios
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    Axios polycounter lvl 10
    No outline for me. If you want, I think you can push the stylization farther with more clearly defined textures rather than relying on an outline.
  • jmt
    With the way your lighting, texturing, post effects and everything are set up it looks fairly blurry and gooey without the outline defining the forms. It looks good in my opinion.

    EDIT: As Axios said, there should be a lot more definition in your textures.
  • C86G
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    C86G greentooth
    I like the outline.
    Without OL the textures look boring. But WITH them it really gets some interesting style.

    +1 outline
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    I'm gonna agree with axios and jmt on the definition of textures, But i'll have to say outline. Feels like a bit more "strength" in the pictures with outline. Feels like your plants should be falling over in the non outlined pictures. Feels less rubbery with outlines. JMO :)
  • nathanbarrett
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    nathanbarrett polycounter lvl 6
    I'd say no outline
  • SgtNasty
    jmt wrote: »
    With the way your lighting, texturing, post effects and everything are set up it looks fairly blurry and gooey without the outline defining the forms. It looks good in my opinion.

    EDIT: As Axios said, there should be a lot more definition in your textures.

    this
  • nordahl154
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    nordahl154 polycounter lvl 9
    If you're going to do an outline (which I think could really help the scene provided it's subtle), you should have it a shade darker and possibly even a slightly different hue than the texture it outlines.

    Not exactly sure how you would make a shader or whatever for it but... that's how it should be done! :icon15:

    KIXgm.png

    Edit: of course it's not always this simple, but you have to think of what kind of material is going to be outlined. For example, some outlines might need to be brighter, or a completely different color depending on the lighting in the scene or just the nature of the material. For simple stuff like planes with alpha channels you could just create the outline in the texture (for example grass).
  • Ashaman73
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    Ashaman73 polycounter lvl 6
    Thx so far for the input, I really appreciate it :)


    @Neox:
    Yes, I know what you mean. I fought this by using an alpha mask of the rendered particles to smooth down the outline effect.
    Here's a comparision shot (the fire effect has been pushed up for demonstration purpose), the upper shot is without considering particles, the bottom shot is by using the alpha mask shown in the bottom-right corner:
    screenshotout5.png

    @nordahl154:
    Instead of using a simple color I use a darkened, blurred version of the scene to take my outline from. This has the benefit of fitting much better with bloom (the outlines get even brighter). An other feature is to fade out the outline effect with distance.

    Here's an other comparision shot. In the upper image I just use black as outline color without distance tuning, in the bottom shot you can see the effect on bloom (left arrow) and distance (right arrow). In the middle is the darkened, blurred version of the scene.

    screenshotout6.png
  • switz
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    switz polycounter lvl 10
    Your bloom levels may be just a hair too much, but it looks good overall. Cluster up some ground elements to make your assets pop!
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    I like the outline you put in personally, however on the first green picture you posted it looks awful lol.
  • haikai
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    haikai polycounter lvl 8
    I like the outline. Just comparing the with and without, I think with the outline improves the readability of your scenes a lot. It's probably true that with more texture work you might not need the outlines, but, as things are now, if you don't have time to change a bunch of assets then the outline seems like a smart thing to go for.
  • Neox
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    Neox veteran polycounter
    Ashaman73 wrote: »
    Thx so far for the input, I really appreciate it :)


    @Neox:
    Yes, I know what you mean. I fought this by using an alpha mask of the rendered particles to smooth down the outline effect.
    Here's a comparision shot (the fire effect has been pushed up for demonstration purpose), the upper shot is without considering particles, the bottom shot is by using the alpha mask shown in the bottom-right corner:
    screenshotout5.png

    @nordahl154:
    Instead of using a simple color I use a darkened, blurred version of the scene to take my outline from. This has the benefit of fitting much better with bloom (the outlines get even brighter). An other feature is to fade out the outline effect with distance.

    Here's an other comparision shot. In the upper image I just use black as outline color without distance tuning, in the bottom shot you can see the effect on bloom (left arrow) and distance (right arrow). In the middle is the darkened, blurred version of the scene.

    screenshotout6.png

    uh nice trick, how do you generate - ah nevermind i thought you've been using udk, i assume you are using a custom engine?

    on the coloured outline, you could blur the image and slightly add this on top of your outline to give it a tint
  • Ashaman73
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    Ashaman73 polycounter lvl 6
    Neox wrote: »
    uh nice trick, how do you generate - ah nevermind i thought you've been using udk, i assume you are using a custom engine?

    on the coloured outline, you could blur the image and slightly add this on top of your outline to give it a tint
    Yes, I've written the engine. And yes, I'm doing exactly this, adding slightly the blurred image on top of the black outlines (the blurred image is infact a bright pass ).
  • ZeroBigSis
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    ZeroBigSis polycounter lvl 10
    Outline! Adds a little more definition to the objects. Would it be possible to use thick and thin lines depending on the objects view? For example put a slightly thinner outline on the object and a thicker one around the silhouette. Also agree about colouring the outline to match the objects diffuse colour
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    I prefer the outline, it makes your assets look much more interesting. Without it, everything sort of blends together and looks a little flat.
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