http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Glass



I've really started to get a sense of this lately. Its a big, not easily conveyed or related, idea.

I'm wondering Ira's attempt to give it form there is insightful to anyone, or if you see it as just a canned quote; a no brainier?

Yeah. It rings a bell with me.

but... does any artist ever feel they have "arrived". Everyone knows you've got to keep practising but is there ever a point where you say, "HA!, I'm good now. I don't need to get better any more".

For me I don't foresee an end to the learning or the ambition to create something better than I believe I can achieve.

Originally Posted by Stinger88

Yeah. It rings a bell with me.

but... does any artist ever feel they have "arrived". Everyone knows you've got to keep practising but is there ever a point where you say, "HA!, I'm good now. I don't need to get better any more".

For me I don't foresee an end to the learning or the ambition to create something better than I believe I can achieve.

Word.

What I like about that is that he isn't being a pompous arsehole, which I unfortunately see too much of when established artists decide to reach down and impart some adviceto us noobz. I also like that what he's saying is completely true and rings a bell with me also

but... does any artist ever feel they have "arrived".

It's your responsibility to continually push yourself, but if you're regularly getting offers for great work opportunities and you're being asked for interviews on art websites and magazines, then it's safe to say you're doing alright. I'm not implying that limelight should ever be a motivating factor. I'm only suggesting a couple of obvious metrics.

Can you ever really stop learning a visual langauge? I ccant remember who said it possibly Bouguereau but I remember the quote well enough.

In a letter to his friend at 75 the artiist exclaimed, I think I finally understand colour!

I love this Well put.

I know that I'll never be as good as I want to be, because I find whenever you felt like you've "leveled up", so many more doors open up that you hadn't realized were there before. So you keep on exploring, learning more and more as you go on, and I think THAT is why it's so fun and rewarding to be an artist (or to do anything you love and are passionate about).

Couldn't agree more. I'm slowly but surely finding my style as I complete more and more work. Thanks for sharing.

I totally agree. I tell new folks that there is a certain amount of shit work, just absolutely terrible work everyone has to do before they make anything remotely good. And the only way to get past it is to work out the bad. On a long enough timeline, with enough hard work, eventually you work through the terrible phase and start making something good.

And of course two years from that you realize the good was really just a new phase of bad that you were working through

The 10000 hour law!

@ All of the above ^^^

Wow cool, glad you guys connected with that. Glad to share,

Originally Posted by [HP]

The 10000 hour law!

Ah yes the 10000 law, I generally agree.

However, its not just about putting in time, but putting in QUALITY time. By pursuing your dreams you are designing a future for yourself, and the future is ultimately unknowable.

Goals are made to revised and changed, they are not set in stone, they are just beacons to guide us along the way, as we change and grow so should they.

The important thing is to never stop moving forward, know thyself, as well as you know your craft, and do everything within your power to achieve what you love. The rest is gravy.

If you ever feel like you're "good enough" and right where you want to be as an artist or creator, you will stagnate and die in this industry. Things move fast - techniques change, technology changes, art styles change, and everything consistently gets better. Act like a knowledge-sponge and soak up everything you come across. Always grow, keep learning, and keep trying to outdo yourself.

I know I suck, however I decided not too long ago to try and do a model or something a week... unfortunately right at the same time I am trying to finish my uni projects.
I shall start up again in the summer though, as I think its a good way of putting out different pieces and hopefully learning something new with each piece, even if the finished piece isn't that great.

People that think they are "good enough" are a detriment to their team.

reminds me of a story I heard during a talk by Wil Wright.

pottery class divided in 2.
one half got graded on how many pots they made.
the other half on how good 1 pot was.

so one half churned out pots like mad
and the other half worked on one pot the whole time

guess which half had better pots at the end?

the half that churned pots constantly, because they kept getting better at it.

I really like the idea up there about knowing if you're work has that special mojo that good work has. You can definitely see when people have that spark, but just haven't quite gotten everything down yet. It's also nice to see those people with that potential become top-notch artists over time.

With that said, it's just that the more you work at it, the more confident you feel about your abilities, which can be interpreted as your "arrival" in a way, which sorta coincides with the 10,000 hrs idea. Nevertheless you'll certainly not be the ultimate demiurgic force of your chosen field, but rather a talented artist that creates things that are generally considered good by peers. Also, When you can say to yourself, "tonight I'm going to make something" and then just do it, not because you're trying to improve yourself with the particular project, but rather just for the desire to make it, and the end result is personally satisfying and publicly considered of good quality (Especially those who you feel are more talented than yourself), then at that point I think it's fair to say you have arrived to new level in your abilities, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

It's gloomy to think that you'll never be a good artist and you must always improve yourself. I think a lot of artists are plagued with that thought. It is true, that there will always be room for improvement, in your mind or other people's, but there is a point where you'll become good if you put effort into it. Talented artists of sound mind and decent enough self esteem know that they are, in fact, talented. It's just sensible polite modesty keeping them running around telling people "Yeah, I'm the shit, deal with it!". However, in creative fields there are people like that, and even though they've got skills (sometimes they don't though)...no one likes them anyway.

Just to clarify some things (I have a irking feeling that the above sentiment will potentially get reamed if I don't). I am just saying that there is a point where an artist who tries does become something that is considered good, and it's okay to feel like you are actually talented. I'm not saying that one shouldn't ever stop continuing to push themselves creatively in as many directions as they can manage. just trying to raise some spirits versus the soul crushing "If you think you're good it's still not good enough...and there never will be a good enough"

Although the whole "Good enough" thing is pretty funny considering if the Commercial Art world had a crest "Good enough" would be on it in bold print. But that's irrelevant to what I just blabbed about.

Agree Absolutely 100%

Thanks so much for sharing this, I definitely needed to read it

I would tend to agree with most of what is being said here. I know personally I never "feel" like I have arrived. I get snippets of it then it is quickly fleeting. I think this is what motivates us to work harder and want to improve. If we are not improving then what is the purpose? We as humans are constantly evolving everyday with what we see, say, do and experience. Without these things the human race would never evolve. Look at the growth of the world from say 1945 to 1995. Tremendous changes occurred in only 50 years now compare that to what had occurred 100 years before that. The reason, more knowledge was made available and people were constantly striving to do bigger and better. It happens with our art, we our constantly evolving and changing. Without this ability to adapt and need to constantly keep up and want to do better we do ourselves an extreme artistic injustice. I think as artists we crave knowledge, and especially knowledge related to our fields of choice. So, I would say never stop learning, be humble, don't be a douche bag and most importantly be excellent to one another.

my thoughts are that you should always be self critical and have a high standard to measure your own work.

in that respect I agree.

BUT I do not agree with the concept of 10000 hours or going through a big volume of work to get better.

quality is more important than quantity in my opinion.

don't just finish a piece for the sake of finishing it. it is the same as not finishing it if the final quality you achieved is far below what you think is good. rather, focus on one piece and keep working on it till you think is it really good.

I don't feel as though i'll ever arrive. I draw, and draw, and draw. But is it enough? No. Why keep going? Because personally i'll go insane if I don't keep drawing. I await the day that I feel as though I have made substantial improvement. Those of you who are better than I, also give me the inspiration to keep it up. I've seen a lot of people on the forums that have improved substantially over the years (i've been here since..? a while.) and seeing people improve really inspires me. I feel like i could do it too.

There are shortcuts, you can use tutorials, color pallets, step by step instruction, reference, etc. You can become good at one thing fairly fast, but i don't think there's any replacement for beating your head against a wall learning all the wrong ways to do things. Once you know all the wrong ways, you'll be an incredibly versatile artist who can rise above challenges that others just can't. There's room for both types of artists.

Yes, this was a very good read. Thanks for sharing, everyone I sometimes find myself frustrated because my work just doesn't look good enough to me. I can feel a little better about that now.

Nice post.

This is the formula!

PERSEVERANCE + EFFORT = SUCCESS (defeated people will say you born with talent ^^)

put 10000 of hours in perseverance and you are done! maybe... because in art we are always improving day by day.