dave school...
polycounter lvl 12
http://www.daveschool.com/index.php/news/school-news
Iv already made my decision on the type of school I want to go to after the Air force whih is the short sexy kind not the 4 year kind. I just want to fill in any gaps my personal adventures havent covered, make connections and brush up on current tech. The mill is going to pay for it anyways.
I just want to see what PC thinks of this school that caught my eye. Itt seems young and allitle shady to me.
Iv already made my decision on the type of school I want to go to after the Air force whih is the short sexy kind not the 4 year kind. I just want to fill in any gaps my personal adventures havent covered, make connections and brush up on current tech. The mill is going to pay for it anyways.
I just want to see what PC thinks of this school that caught my eye. Itt seems young and allitle shady to me.
Replies
I have heard decent things about DAVE school though, so if you're looking to do CG it would be a better fit, but when admission is about the fistfull of cash and not about talent or enthusiasm, you end up with people around you who will either settle for or only be able to achieve mediocrity.
If it's art you're after in Florida, I'd say go for Ringling instead.
DAVE is for-profit
Ringling is not-for-profit
There is a difference. Read up on it.
And there is still time.
ill do that. but Ive heard that CG schooling is just as good for the game industry as a course taylored to gaming.
While I can't speak for many other game art courses, the good ones have collaboration between the different tracks within the programs (programmers, designers, producers & artists) to work on many different games. So you get a feel for working on a proper team, making a proper game, not just simple mods that you import assets into.
try applying without a graduation (i mean, you already have a cool portfolio if i remember correctly)
Guh, this is the kind of message that upsets me.
Everyone tries to jump into the game industry by learning all the high end cinematic stuff. Then when they jump into the game industry they have to deal with actual LIMITATIONS of game engines. They're never taught how to properly low-poly model, or how to properly paint textures.
I would just just want to fill in any gaps my personal adventures havent covered, make connections and brush up on current tech. of course all this can be doen w/o schooling. Mabey I just want to take advantage of the GI bill.
I dont realy have a portfolio yet, My 2d charachter/painting skills are pretty decent but Im still a noob when it comes to 3d (4 months in), which is what games are all about. I have 6 years to learn it though. heck mabey in 6 years ill be confident enough to say screw school and jump right in. well see.
lol, point taken bro.
Your stuff looks pretty sweet and it seems you have a great grasp on art, it's really only a matter of time before you hit the block running with 3d and I doubt a school is going to be the turning point for you.
It's up to you man but in my opinion unless you are going to go to a really sweet art school you should stick to what your doing and your time will come in 3D as long as you keep at it. The internet and peer review are your best resources. The peers are pretty hard to find, that's why we are all on here and not sitting at the DAVE school or any of the others.
Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm a professional artist, having spent 8 years working at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. I was the Art Director and lead 3D artist for CAE, creating both low and high poly models for the A-10 and EC-130 flight crew training program. I freelance for a number of different companies and my work has been seen in ads for Pepsi and DirecTV, as well as in periodicals such as Scientific American and The Wall Street Journal. I'm an [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598220241/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d6_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0YV8DPJ3HZH6G8JY6CGS&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846"]acclaimed author[/ame], and a recognized ZBrush artist. You can see some of my work here:
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=91827
I also wrote large chunks of the DAVE School curriculum.
I currently work at the DAVE school (having recently transitioned from Modeling Instructor to Executive Director). I know that my affiliation with the school immediately subjects my comments to criticism. But hopefully I can provide straightforward and honest answers to some of the questions/comments that have been made here.
With regards to longevity, The DAVE School has been around since the fall of 2000. So we're approaching 11 years. With regards to being shady, I'm not sure exactly what that means or how to address it, but I can tell you that we're a post-secondary career training center. We're licensed by the state of Florida and accredited by ACICS. We have an 85% placement rating for the 2009/2010 year and expect our 2010/2011 placement to go above 90%.
LOL, we book tours every day because we have a number of people interested in the school, and the best way to see what we offer is to come in and poke around. Anyone interested is welcome to drop by. You're even welcome to sit in on a class and see if it's for you.
With regards to endorsements, and in particular Senator Nelson's endorsement, that arose from a recent event. Universal Studios asked us to host the Republican Party of Florida's annual luncheon on our sound stage. We agreed. Most of the representatives had never heard of us, so we gave several of them tours and showed them what our students were doing. Senator Nelson was simply blown away and offered to give us an endorsement.
Last weekend I had the founder of one one of the country's most respected Game/3D/Graphics programs visit the school. He had left that school and went back to work in the industry. He was at the school hiring upcoming graduates for his studio. After seeing the work we were doing, he said that the DAVE School blew away the school he was formerly at. I've asked for a formal endorsement and am waiting on his company to approve it before I can post it online.
Most of our instructors have sites up. However I don't know what state they are in. I know that I haven't updated my personal site since 2007. It's not because I'm a slacker. It's because I'm too busy working on real projects to play with my website. What's important to note, however is that each of our instructors has worked in the field. They are not simply regurgitating information. They are taking their own experiences on the job and applying the lessons they learned in the classroom.
I toured FIEA last fall and it was amazing. The facility is very similar to the DAVE School, but where we focus on producing a student movie, FIEA produces a student game.
Hmmm... Our graduates were the first ones hired to work on Avatar. We are a top pick school for companies like Digital Domain and StereoD. We've got graduates working at EA, Naughty Dog, IGT and GameLoft. It's a pretty ballsy statement to say that DAVE School students are only able to achieve mediocrity, especially when you haven't been through our school.
Lol, WTF? I'm pretty sure you have to pay Ringling to attend classes. It's not free. It takes money to keep the lights on, buy computers, pay for software licenses, and hire qualified instructors. It's no different here. We have to bring in income to make sure we keep the school open.
But the larger implication here is that a for-profit school must somehow not be interested in providing a quality education. And that's simply not true. As a working artist and recognized educator, I can tell you that every decision I make is based on how I can build a better school for the students. I'm not saying our school is perfect. But I can say that I'm working to make it that way. And the for/not-for profit nature doesn't factor into my decisions at all.
You can certainly get a job without going to school. No question about it. But a good school will do more than just impart knowledge. It will create a network of like-minded artists who can challenge you and assist you in getting work. (You can get the same thing online via forums, but there's always something special about meeting in person.) At the DAVE School, in addition to having a strong alumni network (which often does get people jobs), we provide a number of career services. We have industry professionals come in and do demo-reel critiques. We perform mock interviews. We bring employers into the school on a regular basis to hire students. And we provide continuous job placement and education opportunities. If you graduate and want to catch up on the latest software trends and techniques, you can come back and take any portion of our program over again at no cost. And we'll continue to provide job placement for any graduate, no matter when they got out of school. You don't need to go to school, but a good school offers more than just knowledge.
It's true that the needs of the film/television industry are somewhat different than the gaming industry. However the differences are relatively minor (from a technical standpoint). Gaming places more emphasis on low-poly models and higher quality textures. You also have to know the limitations of the game engine. But each game company uses a different engine, and so the requirements change from company to company. What doesn't change are the essentials. And those are the same regardless of whether your working in the game or film industry. You still need to build a quality model with animatable poly flow. You still need to have great textures. You still need excellent UVs. You still need great lighting. You still need a solid rig. You still need to know how to animate properly. Etc. etc. etc.
I recently brought Pamela Thompson out to lecture at the school. She is a widely known recruiter for game and film companies and ran a game company herself. I had her review our 3D curriculum for modeling and animation with a specific eye on how well-suited it was to the gaming industry. She said that the things we were teaching were perfect for those looking to get a job as a game artist (modeler or animator). Her biggest critique was that we didn't do any game programing. I told her that I didn't want to train programmers. I only want to train visual artists. And to that end, she said our program was very competitive.
In terms of modeling (since I wrote the curriculum), I can tell you that we spend a good deal of time talking about high and low poly modeling. We also spend a good portion of the modeling semester talking about texturing and how to set up proper textures for game models.
In the last six months, we've updated our curriculum to include training on Maya 2011, ZBrush 4, Motion Builder 2011, and Nuke X 6.2. We've also added focused training on Mocha, Ocula and Real Flow 5.0.
Our typical turnaround from new software release to having it incorporated into our curriculum is 3 months. Show me a 4-year school that can do that.
Peer reviews are very valuable. That's why we hire instructors who have come out of the industry. And that's why I pay industry professionals (from a variety of different disciplines) to come in and critique the student's work every semester.
It's both arrogant and naive to assume that the students sitting outside my office door are somehow poorly trained, poorly guided, or poorly reviewed - especially when you haven't been here before.
www.aaronbeyer3d.webs.com.
There you will find my demo reel. Don't worry that there are not too many professional works there. I am under contract to not post my current professional works just yet. Feel free to look me up on imdb as well. Since my passion is modeling and texturing I would love to hear from you and share my experience about DAVE school.
Before DAVE School, I went to a 4-yr college specifically to get into the animation industry. I wasted 4 yrs and a LOT of money on a college that didn't go to nearly the same lengths as DAVE School on making sure I had the proper (and most current) education for the industry, nor did they bother to help me when it came to job placement. After graduating that 4-yr college, I ended up wasting yet another year trying to find a job in the industry only to realize I hadn't had even the most basic of education some of the jobs were asking for. Then I found DAVE School...and it was the BEST decision I ever made! I scheduled a tour and was immediately hooked by what they offered! It's a 1-yr intensive training program and as one of my classmates said, it was the worst (meaning most intense) and best year of our lives! It cost me HALF of what the 4-yr college cost me (and I'm still paying for) but it was well worth the price! I graduated in Dec 2008. I stayed on at the school after graduation and worked as a Teaching Assistant to both the Modeling and Compositing Instructors. The instructors are all extremely well educated and all are willing to take their time to make sure you know what you're doing. Some even staying hours after class has ended to make sure you get the help you need! Not to mention, the network and connections this school has are some of the best I've seen! After just a few months, I found work with a VFX company and have since worked on 4 major feature films! I also know many graduates who've gone on to work successfully at various gaming companies. If you're serious about modeling, animation, or visual effects, and you're willing to dedicate 1-yr of your life to school, then you cannot go wrong with DAVE School! Schedule a tour and find out for yourself!
Sure thing.
Julian Salazar
[ame]
Chris Montesano
http://vimeo.com/20185940
Jim Hibbert
[ame]
Marcos de Barros
[ame]
www.aaronbeyer3d.webs.com
Just to chime in....I'm a graduate of the Dave School from the 2003 graduating class, and if memory serves me correct maybe the 3rd or 4th graduating class in had...so at that time...the school was new and since then has gone through some growing pains. Having said that, I did not attempt to get into the industry until I took my DAVE School education and fine tuned my talents until I thought I was ready and didn't question my own ability. That was a personal preference. First job I landed was with Digital Domain's commercial division in early 2006 for a 3 month contract, completed my 3 month contract and was asked to stay longer, but needed to return home to Florida for family matters. Currently I am working for EA Tiburon as an environment artist and have been since 2008 ( full time employee ).
I have seen crappy artist and amazing artist come out of DAVE. Same goes for Full Sail, same goes for pretty much every other school out there and in the area. I think it's childish to make fun of a School because of it's name, or untalented people that graduated from a school.
I just recently took my web site down....currently updating and switching server companies...so don't have one to point you to, but will be happy to send the poster of this thread some renders and work if he has any doubts.
As for the school in it's current curriculum and state, I couldn't help you. It's been years since I've walked through the doors. You think they would invite me to speak to the student body or something....hint hint Mr. Warner! Anyway, I have met Steve once and attended one of his teaching lectures. He seems like a great guy and wonderful teacher. I own a few of his books personally before I ever met him and still reference them from time to time. I studied under Lee Stringer at one point who's an emmy award winning artist and used to teach at the School. Lee left the school a while ago and spent the last two years as CG sup on the Clone Wars animated series. Studied under William Vaughan who also used to teach at the school....you can see some of his character work on Pixars Partly Cloudy short.
Like I said, haven't been there in a few years, not sure who is instructing any more, or what the corriculum is geared towards these days. I will also say that FIEA is really good program. I've worked with a lot of recent grads from FIEA and they have impressed me.
Well, that is my 2 pennies worth.
Don't get me wrong, I never said DAVE school students are only able to achieve mediocrity. I was just stating in a general sense that when there no real strict portfolio requirements, you can end up with people around you that may not be as talented or as driven. This goes for all types of schools, it's not to say that the schools won't produce great people, but I just think when you are around more talented people you push yourself more.
Like I said in my posts, I have heard good things abour DAVE school, and if one was looking to do CG in Florida, it would be the logical choice. 4 Year school would be Ringling, game based curriculum would be FIEA.
It's just part of the discussion.
Due to personal restraints I was unable to leave Florida and during that entire time, the school’s career placement person did everything possible to help with me getting local jobs in the area. I currently work at CAE, a simulation company and I greatly appreciate all the school has done for me. BTW, I served in the military for 11 years before deciding what I wanted to do when I grow up. I left the military knowing that I wanted to work in 3d art.
I spent a long time searching from Vancouver, to Ringling, to Full Sail, to the DAVE School. I weighed the options of what they had to offer with the amount that the entire training of the school would cost, as well as how many years I would need to attend before I could start working in the CG Industry. I chose the DAVE school because it was the best fit for me and looking back I can say I know it was.
In this economy every decision you make is weighed higher than you realize, especially if you are coming from a steady paycheck in the military (I KNOW). Think about this do you have four years of savings in the bank. Also if you have a family can they afford bills for an extended amount of time? The GI Bill is great but, understand that it does NOT cover all your costs from tuition.
Whatever your decision realize that you must make it on your own! The DAVE school may not be the one for you, but consider sources that bash others. I believe that in their own way, each of these schools have something great about them, just weigh your options and make your decisions wisely
Good Luck with your decision. No matter where you go, you will get the most out of your experience, as long as you keep putting more into it!
One thing that caught my eye is the bit on the program overview that says you teach all areas of CG so that students don't limit their career opportunities.
Now in my opinion, and from what I've heard mentioned many times in the CG industry, be it film or games, this directly contradicts the actual opinion of most people.
Surely specialising actually increases your chances of employment rather than limits them? Now I don't work in the VFX industry but I'm sure I've heard a lot of people say they would far sooner employ a specialist than a generalist, and even sooner employ someone who has an artistic background with solid fundamentals than some monkey who can just go through the motions.
I'm not bashing your course, just curious as to why you say that generalising is better than specialising?
I don't know how this really applies to the gaming industry but I assume it's sort of the same.
I suppose it just has an air of 'jack of all trades, master of none' to it. I guess it comes down to the students and how much they put in, specialising in their favourite field in their own time. Which of course is not up to the school to enforce.
That's a really great question. If you read through our site, you'll notice that we never state that we train generalists. That's because we don't. We actually train specialists. However rather than limiting our students to one particular area of study, we provide them with specialized training in three separate disciplines (modeling, animation and visual effects).
A lot of people question whether or not we can actually train specialists in such a short period of time. We can. Take a look at the Matrix APU model in Julian Salazar's demo reel above. That was done in the second week at the school with only a week's prior training. (Daniel Biggers, who also posted here, can show you his version from that week as well. It's equally impressive.) Now granted, not every student is capable of producing work at this level. I'm not arguing that every student is going to be a rock star modeler. Some people just don't like to model. What I am saying however is that we train artists to be specialists. And for those who put the time in to practice what they've learned, the results can be astounding.
You could argue that by providing training in all three disciplines we are inherently a generalist school. However that wouldn't be entirely true, as most of our graduates end up getting jobs as specialists. Consider the following:
Julian Salazer is working as a modeler at GameLoft. He's a specialist.
Amy Putrinsky is working as a lead VFX compositor at WorldWide FX. She's a specialist.
Cesar Rodriguez is working as an animator at FunGoPlay. He's a specialist.
Daniel Biggers is working as a modeler at CAE. He's a specialist.
Brian Taber is working as a Stereoscopic VFX Supervisor at StereoD. He's a specialist.
Kurt Smith is working as a rigger at Pixomondo. He is a specialist.
The thing is, Kurt isn't just a great rigger. He's also a great modeler. Julian isn't just a great modeler. He's also a great compositor. Amy isn't just a great compositor. She's also a great lighting artist. Our graduates typically go to work as a specialist at one company, but they could easily get work doing a different specialist job somewhere else.
I was on the phone with Aaron Beyer this morning. He's working at StereoD as a depth/roto artist. Aaron is a great modeler and was recently offered a job at Pixomondo to do modeling on Spielberg's Terra Nova. Aaron has the ability to go from one specialty job to another. That's what we mean when we say that we don't limit our students' career opportunities.
We've built a program that we believe gives people highly focused skill sets in the most common CG disciplines. Granted, not every student is going to excel at every discipline. Some gravitate towards one over the others. But by offering a program that provides specialist training in the most common disciplines, students will hopefully find something that they love to do, and will get paid well to do it.
I'm not sure yet, I just enrolled. My program starts in June! Although, as you say, I've heard very good things and always nice to hear more positive comments.
Thanks for answering the question.
I suppose that was my initial thought, 'surely you can only brush the surface if you cover such a broad range of subjects'. But from your explanation, it sounds like your program certainly 'has it's head screwed on' so to speak.
Yesterday I was discussing the forum post with one of my instructors. He said, "Granted, you're an industry professional, but what you say doesn't matter because you work for the school. You should ask some of the graduates to post."
I'm friends with a number of students and graduates on Facebook. I asked a few to drop by and give their own thoughts on the school. These folks actually plunked down the cash to come here. Who better to give an opinion about the school than those who attended?
Totally understandable. And to be honest, that's what I thought before I came here. I had a great job at CAE in Arizona. Had no intentions of leaving it. But I was in Orlando for a publishing convention and had a friend working here at the DAVE School. I figured I should probably drop by. I was totally blown away by what I saw here. I couldn't shake it. Two weeks later I told my wife that I wanted to quit my job and move to Florida.
Thanks for the kind remarks.
This thread topic was brought to my attention by the Dave School. I was asked to share my opinion and that I did. My arm wasn't twisted and I wasn't asked to "talk it up". If someone did ask me to do just that....believe me....I wouldn't have posted here. I'm not a paid salesman to sell you a tuition package....and refuse to be. If you go back and read my post, I don't believe I came off as a gun hoe fan boy of the School, and infact addressed other shcools in the area. Instead I shared my own experience of what the school did for me way back in 2003. I also stated that I'm not certain how the program is these days or who teaches.
I don't have time for online forums between working long hours, family and kids, and a photography hobby. I've trolled Polycount from time to time but never registered. I registered just to be helpful to someone making a rather tough decision. Hope you don't read into it to much.
The reason for the newly registered applicants is beacuse we just became aware of this discussion, and by word of mouth decided to give our input as obviously you have given yours. Not one of the students that graduated at the school benifits in any way by making a comment here. We have only provided suggestions that we have first hand experience in. If I wanted to specifically know how a school is, I would want to know from someone who went there, not just heresay from another individual that has no actual time spent attending the school. Don't you agree that the best source is from a student.
You can learn the basics of computer animation using just about any application. Before purchasing one of the major apps (which tend to be expensive and difficult to learn), I'd recommend taking a look at Blender. It's got an amazing feature set and is completely free. The interface is a bit wonky, but I've seen people do some really impressive work with it. Hash Animation Master, DAZ Studio or even Project Messiah might also be a good starting point.
http://www.wings3d.com/
I just wanted to share about my experience in picking a school. I went to the University of Miami film school and graduated with a degree in Motion Pictures. I had learned a little maya, after effects, and motion builder and compositing while I was there, but it was just the basics and definitely not enough to get a job. (My reel looked horrible.) I knew that I wanted to get more in depth into computer animation and more of what I had started. After graduation, I moved to Orlando and just randomly googled animation schools in Orlando. The DAVE school was one of the ones that came up along with Full Sail. I had already done college and didn't want to take any more pointless classes that weren't going to get me where I wanted to be. I decided to go look at the DAVE school to see if it was what I wanted. I fell in love with it the minute I walked in the door. I didn't end up being able to go for another year and a half, but was so excited when I started.
Like with anything you do, you have to put in effort no matter where you want to go. I worked very very hard and very rarely saw my husband for much of that year. I am so glad that I went there. It happened to be the perfect fit for me and I now work for a visual effects company in Kansas City, and have gotten to work on Fringe and Hawaii 5-0 and several other tv shows. It can be very busy and time consuming, but it's wonderful and I love it.
Even though I didn't get exactly what I needed from college, I still don't regret starting there.