[WiP] UDK, Scottish Hills Cottage Environment
Hello Polycounters,
I've been lurking in these forums for a while now and figure why not post something that I'm working on right now!
I've just finished up an 8 month contract at Disney's Propaganda Games in Vancouver working on Tron Evolution. Tron was built on the unreal engine and this was my first venture into using it. I'm taking some time now to upgrade my portfolio a bit before go looking for new work.
This is cottage scene is my current project. It is something that I started about the time I began at Propaganda and shelved due to working too much :P I've recently resumed work on it again since I have the time now. Its already quite far along, but I will be updating this post as I take it to its final stage, and I will also show some screenshots of the progress on its way to getting where it is.
Its built to be seen from this one angle that I have right now. But I'm considering fleshing out some other areas of it to show it as more of a full environment. That would however take a lot more work and I'm not sure I want to spend that much more time on it. I may just want to start something new after finishing this shot. Either way, I do plan on taking some of the assets into a detailed finalized state, just to have some detailed assets to show separately out of the scene.
Some things on my todo list:
-New clouds in skybox that streak accross the sky instead of wrapping like they do now
-More branches on trees to make them more dense
-more detailing and reworking of large and small rocks
-Maybe some LOD trees in the distant hills
-detail out wagon wheel. (Its a temp asset right now)
-Maybe detail out the cottage. (It currently only has enough detail to be seen from this distance)
And now for some shots of how it got to where it is:
The reference for the cottage itself:
Also, here's a site that I used for some terrain reference:
http://www.fife.50megs.com/Tour%20Glenshee%20Winter%20Scotland/index.htm
I've been lurking in these forums for a while now and figure why not post something that I'm working on right now!
I've just finished up an 8 month contract at Disney's Propaganda Games in Vancouver working on Tron Evolution. Tron was built on the unreal engine and this was my first venture into using it. I'm taking some time now to upgrade my portfolio a bit before go looking for new work.
This is cottage scene is my current project. It is something that I started about the time I began at Propaganda and shelved due to working too much :P I've recently resumed work on it again since I have the time now. Its already quite far along, but I will be updating this post as I take it to its final stage, and I will also show some screenshots of the progress on its way to getting where it is.
Its built to be seen from this one angle that I have right now. But I'm considering fleshing out some other areas of it to show it as more of a full environment. That would however take a lot more work and I'm not sure I want to spend that much more time on it. I may just want to start something new after finishing this shot. Either way, I do plan on taking some of the assets into a detailed finalized state, just to have some detailed assets to show separately out of the scene.
Some things on my todo list:
-New clouds in skybox that streak accross the sky instead of wrapping like they do now
-More branches on trees to make them more dense
-more detailing and reworking of large and small rocks
-Maybe some LOD trees in the distant hills
-detail out wagon wheel. (Its a temp asset right now)
-Maybe detail out the cottage. (It currently only has enough detail to be seen from this distance)
And now for some shots of how it got to where it is:
The reference for the cottage itself:
Also, here's a site that I used for some terrain reference:
http://www.fife.50megs.com/Tour%20Glenshee%20Winter%20Scotland/index.htm
Replies
this has a lot of potential but i still think its missing something. cant quite put my finger on it though. keep up the great work, ill be watching this thread for sure
One thing I always love seeing when there is a scene with a nice big open sky like that, is birds. Birds (or bats if you want :P) can really help set some sort of movement with static shots, and I always feel like it can round out the scene a bit more.
You can take some of your taller grass and make some variations with some brown / yellow hues, to show some aging. Maybe look at some different plant life to add some colour as well. With shots like these, colour can play an AMAZING role in really setting a tone for the overall piece.
Now that I'm looking at it... red is coming to mind. Something subtle that will most certainly catch the viewers eye. Maybe there are some freshly places roses over a gravestone, or even a shotty grave (with the wooden cross as the "headstone").
I feel currently that you have no focal point for the viewer to go to. The cottage is great, but its not drawing my eye due to lack of contrast. If you're planning on making the cottage the focal point, brighten up that roof, add some more character to the building itself, tell a story.
I think for the most part your scene as a whole has some good balance, but I think its either missing something from the lower left of the screen, or some needed contrast in the upper right of the screen to really ground it.
Maybe all you really need is a red or yellow piece of ribbon caught on the wooden fence, blowing in the wind to help get some sort of story across, while also helping to create a focal point.
I'm really loving this scene so far, you have such a great template to REALLY push this into something memorable, and all you really need now is to tell the story.
I can't wait to see what you do with this.
I love how the scene turned out
It'd be nice to see a nice close up shot of the cottage. Maybe add some foliage on the cottage? From the distance I see it at, it doesn't have any on it but just like your ref image, I like the vines and ivy going up on the cottage so yours could benefit from some stuff like that as well
The grass came out looking nice! Did you use UDK terrain editor by any chance?
Thanks for all the great feedback so far!
Jason,
I think you are totally right about it needing that pop of colour. Thats what made the original concept work, and I need to bring that idea back into the composition.
I agree that it should be red, and it should be in the forground. If I make the cottage brighter it will look strage, because the more saturated higher contrast stuff should be in the forground. I also like the red ribbon idea. Im thinking a torn piece of clothing as if someone ran through in a panic. Dirt footsteps can be kicked up along the path along with maybe something that she dropped... A basket with flowers or bread or something. Maybe its little red riding hood, who knows, heh.
3GL,
I think those fallen leaves just need some work to blend them into the ground a little more. Maybe they need to be darker or just smaller. I'll have to play with it.
As for a close up of the cottage, Im actually detailing it out right now, and going to make a few changes to it. I might add some of the vines too. Once I get it done I'll do a close up of it.
I did use the terrain editor for the ground here. The main grass is placed with the folige system too. Other grass patches are placed as static meshes.
I'll show a break down of how all the grass was done tomorrow probably.
I'll show some other break downs of how things are done in the coming days as I get time, and as I finish more things off. All in due time.
Thanks for all the feedback so far, its actually helped a lot already!
don't get me wrong, this is really nice, was just hoping for something more... i dunno, romantic? xD
New wallpaper on the ol pc
Instead, I will do a little show and tell on how the grass and bushes were made...
I did about 3 different typical grass card attempts using photo sources or photo reference and building it in photoshop and didnt like any of those results. Instead I decided to model all the grass and foliage in maya and render it all out into textures.
Bottom left is diffuse, bottom right is alpha
Heres a couple close ups showing the models themselves:
This technique is nice for a number of reasons,
-It gives a perfect alpha'd edge all the time, theres no little nicks and dings in the texture that you get with photo sourced stuff. -When you use "alpha cut" (one bit alpha), any little imperfections in the alpha'd edges can become quite obvious and jagged looking. This technique avoids that.-
-Its resolution independent. I can render the texture off as big as I want
-I can render out AO, Alpha, Normals (if you want, I find normals dont look good on foliage)
-I can control the shapes and density of the foliage manually to get the exact look I want.
I then made card based grass assets using this texture. On the cards I used custom vertex normals, pointing the normals upwards so that the light that hits them matches the light that is hitting the ground under them. This helps blend them in with the ground.
The shorter grass was placed using UDK's foliage system, and some taller patches as well as the bushes were placed manually as static meshes.
Hopefully tomorrow I will have UDK working again and can make some updates to the scene.
Love the hazie feel around the house
There seems to be a lack of specularity on anything.
Your lighting might be effecting that. The lighting doesn't look bad. It is washed out and there is a lack of contrast in the lighting. Punch up the shadows in the lighting.
Also look into using the diffuse boost to get the colors a bit less saturated.
Cheers for the insider tip on the foliage will definatly look in to that technique, so thank you!
I tried enabling HDR Tonemapper in the Post effects. It really brought out the contrast. I had to adjust the lighting a bit because the HRD made the shadows a little too contrasty, but it brings a lot of life to the scene I think.
I put a red torn cloth in. I think it still needs some work to make it look more like a freshly torn off piece of clothing.
I also pulled the sun flare that is behind the house into view a little more so that it brightens up that side of the screen.
I threw some footprints down on the path too.
Seriously though -
http://scotlandtravelpackage.com/scotlandtravelpackage/wp-content/uploads/highlands.jpg
The above is not Scotland, its a postcard of Scotland.
When Scotland gets pretty it looks like the shots below, notice how they are still drained of color, pushing towards and old photographs sepia tone values? Theres always mist, fog or signs of recent rain ... its not Fable. There ARE autumnal colors a lot, but that ultramarine bounce light doesn't really occur much.
http://www.gairloch.org/scotland-hill-walking-trips-tours/scotland-highlands.jpg
http://www.lobl.de/grafik/gallerie/leicester/highlands.jpg
http://www.caravanadventures.co.uk/images/Highlands_3.JPG
http://www.conneryscottishwalks.co.uk/scottish_walks_background.jpg
Heres a shot where the light pushes through, similar to what you are doing, see how the colors go though?
http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/2/8/a/highres_11849322.jpeg
some old houses
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_uGIdEqR4pw8/RxYjpXcGVbI/AAAAAAAAAPA/c9obWhGO-8o/IMG_0247.JPG
http://image57.webshots.com/157/5/32/5/2589532050056401727uzdZNd_fs.jpg
Nice example of the kind of stainage most brick / granite constructions in Scotland have
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cvQ3r0Al9Lc/TIECkh1pXqI/AAAAAAAABfY/dC6ucSA0wJo/s1600/ScottishRoyalPalaceGateHouse.jpg
http://static.rlclaw.co.uk/media/2010/Mar/courtsession.JPG
Maybe you aren't pushing toward this kind of realism, but if you are, hope the images help. It's still pretty as is, its just not Scotland!
You are totally right about it not being true to scotland at all. I kind of started the scene thinking of scotland, then started taking it away from that with the lighting. I probably shouldnt have written "scotland" on the title, its more of just a cottage on a hill somewhere, maybe Italy? Who knows
haha think your mixing the Scottish with the Welsh here. Or at the least only thinking of people from Aberdeen.
But yeah those referencesss are pretty much the picturesque scene youd find in brochures of Scotland. The area that iam from in Scotlanld looks slightly like what bradish portrayed. The only thing that I instantly picked up on was the building that is not very Scottish.
I absolutely love the scene. I'm a huge fan of greenery and natural looking scenes.
I'm writing this post to you because I currently am working on a organic kind of scene myself, a Japanese Zen / Stone garden, and will soon be in need of good foliage, grass, and shrubbery techniques.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79836
I especially paid attention to your post of how you used actual meshes as foliage in UDK.
If you could please elaborate even more, on your workflow from Maya to UDK, of how you put the foliage together?
Was it simply a matter of using paint effects? Or did you actually model and texture them in Maya, and then exported the stuff to be able to be used in UDK?
I'd imagine if it was paint effects, you'd just export the model as an .ase and render out the textures from the paint effects?
Thank you for any tips you could lend me!
I also think you're pushing the contrast a bit too much now, as well as the normals on the fence.
That's seriously it though, this is a fantastic scene so far.
also you get strands of sheeps wool on fences
But on a more serious note, Kevin's right that those sky and ground colours are far too saturated to be Scotland. Think more "dreich"
I don't have much to say. The overall glow is a bit strong.. everything is blurred. I also don't like the blurred clouds and this red piece of leather definitly need some love
'Love the colors, good job on this piece so far.
Keep it up
-Edit, I tried to change the title and it didnt let me :P-
tda,
I think you might be right. Previously the scene needed something to pop out and thats why I added it. But the lighting now makes the building pop out more nicely so perhaps the red cloth is not necessary. I like that it brings a bit of a story into the scene, so I will probably just desaturate it.
tristamus,
The grass and plant were not done with paint effects at all actually. I initially tried using paint effects for the foliage, but was not happy with the results. I actually modeled the grass and shrub manually. That way I was able to control exactly how they looked.
I did texture them a with basic colours in maya so that I could render out a diffuse texture from there.
It was like this
1. model and texture grass and plants
2. render them out from an orthographic camera for the texture
3. render them out again with final gathering and use this as an AO layer in photoshop
4. Make typical grass cards and UV your texture to this accordingly (as seen in the image below)
5. Point the vertex normals directly upwards so that they will light properly.
The left one is the asset for the shorter grass which I placed using the UDK foliage system. The right one is the taller grass, which I placed as a static mesh anywhere I wanted it (just used it in clumps).
In UDK you will want to set your material to be double sided and have the Blending mode set to "BLEND Masked".
Now with that said, I am having and issue with the vertex normals and Im not sure why... can anyone help with this?
The grass seems to be receiving light from one side and not the other, even though the normals are facing upwards. Heres a couple shots from Maya:
This problems persists in UDK as well, as seen below. That grass should all be relatively the same value, but instead the fronts and backs of the mesh are being lit differently. When I view the scene in Lighting Only mode, it looks all good, they are all the same value. However, when I view it in Detailed lighting mode, or Textured and Lit, the backs of the grass go dark.
Have I done something wrong with the vertex normals, or is there a material setting Im missing?
http://wiki.polycount.com/VertexNormal?action=show&redirect=Vertex+Normal
I hope, it could helps you.
As far as your lighting problem, it may truly just be a limitation of the engine. You say that when in Lighting only mode, it's fine, but in Detail Lighting mode, it's not. I believe detail lighting mode shows off only normal map details, right? And possibly, it's something strange going on with the actual alpha map itself? Because if all your normals on the cards are pointing upwards, and it shows up fine in Lighting only mode, it just has to be something up with the alpha map itself (I'd believe). Hard to think of what it is.
Have you tried using other blend modes? Maybe it's something to do with a setting you had before you exported your alphas from Maya?
I totally forgot about Normal Thief!! =D
Give that a try Braddish.
Something else that might be effecting your grass is the lightmap for the static mesh iam not sure though just a thought. I havent used UDK enough to be sure that could be an issue or not probably isnt but you might want to look at it if that vertex normal thing dosent solve the problem.
I painted new clouds in, so they are nice and strait accross the sky now. Also made adjustments to the lighting, bringing down the saturation and contrast a bit more.
Not to say that they look wrong; I'm just wondering how the scene would look like had they been a bit weaker.
Another thing, I'm seeing that you are still having some issues with the grass. Have you tried setting the lighting model of your material to MLM_NonDirectional?
I think it works great with grass planes. In addition to that, if you tweak the brightness/saturation of your grass via the material, so that it blends seamlessly with the underlaying terrain texture you might get even better results.
Good luck! Regardless of what I just said it looks great
I wouldn't say another tree is necessary, but maybe another mountain in the background, just to break up the horizon a bit more?
You can try the transmissionMask in the material for the grass.. Helped my tree making a while back..