Modo 501
Modo 501 has arrived! 
Has anyone had a chance to mess around with it? Any first impressions? I'm trying to resist just purchasing it because I'm a bit poor atm... though I'll probably give in sooner or later.
From what I know it has a some new features that may prove useful to us as game artists:
1. Smoothing Groups are now supported! It looks similar to how Max handles them.
2. An Occlusion Material which offers options for various types including concavity, convexity, up/down slope. It looks as though it can be easily baked to a mask texture for easy dirt, scratches, rust, etc...
3. "Pixar" Sub Division Surfaces, which appear to allow you to model much cleaner SubD meshes without having to add any support edges. This basically uses edge weighting but provides much better results than traditional edge weighting solutions. Granted this may only work well if you do all of your baking in Modo, exporting frozen meshes over to something like xNormal may be possible. Oh just read that it can transfer the crease data to Maya via FBX, cool!
4. Multi resolution sculpting, finally... This is real mesh based sculpting not image based displacement map sculpting.
5. A bunch of new procedural materials, which I'm hoping can be customized and baked to texture.
6. If I'm reading the "New Features.pdf" correctly then there's also projection based painting...
7. Vertex light baking.
8. Modo's SDK is now much more open, this will allow many interesting plugins to be developed for Modo.
9. Snapping is improved. (though it wasn't an issue for me, I know it was for some.)
10. Many new modeling tools such as adding edge loops while preserving curvature, and diagonal edge selection.
Unfortunately there is still no smooth skinning for animation so no "soft" character animation tools. However if you were making a robot character the new node based rigging tools look amazing.
Also there is still no non-linear modeling (modifier stack), or FFD deformers.
Has anyone had a chance to mess around with it? Any first impressions? I'm trying to resist just purchasing it because I'm a bit poor atm... though I'll probably give in sooner or later.
From what I know it has a some new features that may prove useful to us as game artists:
1. Smoothing Groups are now supported! It looks similar to how Max handles them.
2. An Occlusion Material which offers options for various types including concavity, convexity, up/down slope. It looks as though it can be easily baked to a mask texture for easy dirt, scratches, rust, etc...
3. "Pixar" Sub Division Surfaces, which appear to allow you to model much cleaner SubD meshes without having to add any support edges. This basically uses edge weighting but provides much better results than traditional edge weighting solutions. Granted this may only work well if you do all of your baking in Modo, exporting frozen meshes over to something like xNormal may be possible. Oh just read that it can transfer the crease data to Maya via FBX, cool!
4. Multi resolution sculpting, finally... This is real mesh based sculpting not image based displacement map sculpting.
5. A bunch of new procedural materials, which I'm hoping can be customized and baked to texture.
6. If I'm reading the "New Features.pdf" correctly then there's also projection based painting...
7. Vertex light baking.
8. Modo's SDK is now much more open, this will allow many interesting plugins to be developed for Modo.
9. Snapping is improved. (though it wasn't an issue for me, I know it was for some.)
10. Many new modeling tools such as adding edge loops while preserving curvature, and diagonal edge selection.
Unfortunately there is still no smooth skinning for animation so no "soft" character animation tools. However if you were making a robot character the new node based rigging tools look amazing.
Also there is still no non-linear modeling (modifier stack), or FFD deformers.
Replies
This new version looks neat, maybe I will try it again if there is a demo still.
I'm very disappointed that there's no proper character animation yet, though
But I still love you, modo
Yeah, I can relate to that. I went from Maya to Max then on to Modo.
Modo definitely feels different than Max. At first if felt very disjointed and cumbersome, I think it took me about a month before I was really comfortable with it.
Now I would describe Max as "clunky" and Modo as "fluid" in relation to UI and workflow. Not to knock Max or anything, it's great and all but still... I wouldn't want to make Modo feel and look like Max.
Same here, I loved their ads and clicked one of them to try to demo, could not figure out most of it, I tried some tutorials but it didn't seem like a fluid transition from max to modo.
I think if I spend more time with it I would have gotten better, but since I already have a copy of max 9 why change it, unless something super breakthrough happens. Even if it does, I'm sure it won't be anything I could use.
Still an awesome program for it's price. Well it's 3x cheaper than max 2011
VPrime, XenoKratios, Modo uses completely different way of working and I can see it being hard to get used to, but it's actually a little less disjointed than Max once you get some nice hotkeys worked out. I have hotkeys for doing almost everything, no menu digging or button hunting required. Yeah, it's a bit annoying to set up the first time through, but after that things are a breeze.
@Ben
Wondering do you use edge weighting ever? Have you ever done any normal baking with Modos ray distance method? It seems without proper smoothing control no one would be able to do so without using alot of bevels...curious what your approach is.
I've tried, and tried, and failed to get into the workflow though. I love what it does, and it's clear how beneficial some of the tools/modeling workflows are but it really takes some getting used to!
I think it's just a case of 'forcing myself' to stick with Modo for a bit, I guess even Max seemed alien at first.
Thanks for the heads up!
I haven't ever used edge weighting beyond just trying it out to see how it works. I've always used traditional SubD modeling techniques (supporting edge loops everywhere) to model high poly + non-sculpted stuff. Now with the new Pixar SubDs I think it might be possible to avoid all of that extra work.
I have done normal baking in Modo but as you noticed it lacks cage baking which can make all the difference in some cases.
With 401 (and 302) I controlled smoothing by a combination of setting the materials smoothing angle 180° where I want the model to be "smooth" and splitting the edges where I want "hard" edges. Check this post from this thread out for more info.
Lately (still Modo 401) I've been working with Unity and have been using this script made by Chai to export OBJs to xNormal and FBXs to Unity. The script supports proper vertex normal smoothing and breaking (smooth groups). It also lets me export to xNormal with one keystroke, which speeds up the baking process immensely. I bet the FBXs generated by the script would also work well with UDK but I haven't tried it out yet. Maybe with 501 I won't have to...
Yeah, when I first switched from Max to Modo it seemed so strange and alien. I think the only reason I eventually succeeded was that I forced myself to not use any another 3D apps when I got stuck. It was very frustrating for the first few days then it went to uncomfortable and eventually to super awesome. I remember vividly being almost physically sick that I couldn't figure out how to snap anything together during my first day with it.
LOL! I probably sound like a raving fanboi of Modo... and I guess I sort of am one
Though I'd never go so far to claim Modo is the ultimate perfect app, Modo still has quite a ways to go for that.
For anyone looking at buying Modo definitely give the trial a go before throwing down the money. If you do download the trial be prepared to possibly receive a time limited discount coupon that might "force" the issue.
I notice they haven't got a 501 trial up yet... hopefully soon.
Yeah the lack of character animation tools is what's stopping me from switching over to Modo from Max completely. I don't like switching between 2 packages so will be holding off until they advance the animation more.
I have been using modo since first version, and i'm stuck with modo 302 right now. The perfomance in viewports in modo 301 was the double than in modo 302. And modo 401 with its last sp is not as good as 302, slower, bloated, but something tolerable.
I must say that all those improvements are not a big deal for me. The program still lacks of too many things, damn!. The improvement of the "fog" must be a bad joke.
I'm more excited with the new lightwave than with this.
What i wish is a good rig system like the one in the new lightwave 10 or much better. I'm sure they still have issues with the bevels.
Really interested in this new Multires Sculpting. It looks like it might manage to take external sculpting apps out of my workflow entirely.
Download the trial and see for yourself
I've tried to get into Blender a few times during the development of 2.5 (from alpha0 - beta 2.52). I've spent more than 8 hours attempting to deal with Blender's hotkey editor. I got very close to getting Blender to behave nearly as smooth as Modo or at least how I've customized Modo, which is very different from the default. Then for no reason at all Blender would refuse to work with my presets, it would crash as soon as I attempted to load them. One day it worked the next it didn't. Needless to say I've given up on Blender for now. I will give it another try once it's out of beta, and especially once Bmesh is finished and integrated.
More about customizing in Blender VS. Modo:
In Blender nothing is unified, each tool has different keys for 3D Viewport/2D Viewport/modeling/UV mapping/animation/everything... So say I want move(translate) to be mapped to "W". I then have to go to each sub-section that uses move(translate) and change it to "W". I then have to manually check to see if this is conflicting with any other functions in that subset. It's just too much work to try again until Blender is stable and the UI API is set in stone.
Another thing about Blender's hotkeys there's no easy way to start with a blank keymap set and then go in and assign the keys that I want to use. Once you remove a keymap it's gone from list rather than being simply unassigned.
With Modo all the tools are the same no matter what context they are used in move(translate) is the same tool you use in the 3D viewport, UV edit window, graph editor, etc... One key to change (very simple) organized by keys by default.
With all of that said I have very high hopes for Blender, once 2.5 is out of beta I believe things will be better. It is the next app on my list of 3D apps to learn. It has many strengths where Modo has weaknesses. I personally believe that they complement each other very well.
From what I understand at some point there was a split in the developers of Lightwave. Some broke off and formed Luxology which then developed Modo while others stayed on with NewTek-Lightwave.
I've heard that the two apps are somewhat similar with the way they approach things (like smoothing angle in materials rather than actual smoothing groups prior to Modo 501), but I've never tried Lightwave so I can't really say anything much about that.
As for hotkey mapping, it's the absolute best I've seen to date in any program except Photoshop. The fact that it's completely customizable and all hotkeys work the same in all modes is a godsend and one of the main reasons I haven't switched to another program like Blender.
I know Maya and I understand somewhat of the workflow with Max and I really cant see myself ever modeling in Maya again. Its like owning a sports car and downgrading to a bike(LOL maybe not that extreme...).
@Ben
Thanks for the link to the script, I downloaded and it looks interesting so when the time comes I'll try to set that up. I see splitting the edges detaches the face from the mesh and successfully breaks the smoothing. Why is it that you split, cant you also assign that polygon(s) to a new material with another smoothing angle and keep the mesh welded at those hard edges?
Will be a while before I can get my hands on 501...I want it now.
Thanks.
Other stuff... 64 bit on mac now, lots of extra materials, including procedurals, and the new AO stuff looked pretty cool too. Curious about the rendering performance enhancements, as I plan on doing some rendered stuff in it in the new year. One of the cheapest of my 3d apps to upgrade as well, and no punishment for skipping a version.
I still prefer the overall feel of silo over modo for modeling, but Lux adds more and more reasons to use modo with every major release, which is why I keep upgrading.
Hopefully the learning curve isn't too intense..
Edit: Scratch that.. they took down the demo
I used modo before i switched to 3ds max, modo does have a lot of great ways to speed up the workflow, it's worth testing
Such harebrained ideas, just let us demo the goddamned thing already. Nobody is going to splurge on any €500+ software without at least trying it.
But you could buy a edition of the demo, where it was included some hours of training materials.
But if you wanted you could just download the demo without any of the videos for free.
It seems great for hard surface stuff, but I am not having the most comfortable time making organic characters. The sculpt tools don't even appear to work for some reason. I select my mesh, select the tools, the brush, but nothing. Probably something really obvious I'm missing.
I rely heavily on tutorials for my training, and I think I've been spoiled by all the max/maya stuff out there. Not as much documentation yet on this in terms of character modeling. That's proving quite a bit of an obstacle.
Don't go into it trying to do the same things you would in max/maya. To compare it directly, I feel like its modeling tools are actually pretty lacking compared to max, even though modo has been touted as a solid modeler. Things like symmetry being unreliable, and many other little tools here and there not working like you'd think. Again, I might just be too used to the max way of doing things, so I hope to be proven wrong on this.
However I love the speed, the flow, the whole feel of it. Navigating is quick and comfortable. And the modeling you can pull of successfully feels great. I hope that if I stick with modo enough my skills will eventually mature to the point where it's smooth sailing.
From what I've witnessed, Max users have the hardest time transitioning to modo simply because it's so different - especially with the lack of a modifier stack.
As I learned 3D in LightWave I've been so used to a "permanent" forward workflow (no stack you can just edit/remove modifiers from - all editing is final beyond the end of undo queue) that it wasn't a big problem for me. But that's also one of the reasons I haven't used Max to it's full potential as I don't like/trust having these stacks of modifiers on a model.
Once you get into the action centre/axis stuff and the modularity of it's toolset (it still frustrates me in Max that I can't use all of it's tools to edit UVs, for instance - or model and UV simultaneously) you start to realise the full potential of it's tools. Especially once you get some of Seneca Menard's fantastic tool scripts installed.
seconded.