Yeah Ghib, totally agree. It needs to be simple enough like 3DC and Silo, but much more mistake-proof.

Why not having a little thing to click on, right next to the menu item, on the right ? Like this :

Extrude []

Pressing the little thing on the right, represented here as "[]", would simply either active hotkey assignment mode (similar to Silo and 3DC), or maybe it could bring the user straight to the hotkey editor, with the given tool already selected from the list. I think either way is solid. So maybe putting both would be nice. Right clicking on the [] would enable live hotkey assignment mode, and left clicking on it would bring the regular shortcut editor. BUT! make sure to have a little message bubble explaining the right click/left click thing when the cursor is hovering on top of [] - you really dont want anyone to have to guess that!

Good luck!

The menu control doesn't provide many control event options like other controls do, so the [] idea can not be applied. I would prefer when user highlight the menu item then hit a key, the hotkey editor will show up with the related tool selected and the hotkey assigned to it. While the hotkey editor still on, user can test it so he can decide to cancel or keep it or further modify the hotkey combination.

Sure yeah that should work!

Only problem would be that one key would be 'locked' for that functionality (insert, end, whatever). JUST make sure that this key is mentioned somewhere obvious. Maybe this should appear as an UI overlay, just like how you have 'alt' and other keypresses show up in the viewport. Or, have a little info bubble show up when someone hover on a menu item. The bubble would describe the tool, but also it will say at the end : "press END to assign a shortcut".

There is a setback here. In the Studio I am using, there is no key down event on menu items. That means when a menu item is selected, the action of pressing down keys is not accessible to the programe. Maybe when I upgrade to newer version of studio, the situation can be improved.

One more thing I have to say on the subject of setting hotkeys. Users should be able to create their hotkey combo in one go. Currently to set a combination you have to press and confirm each button separately. As a result you get the inevitable hotkey conflict warning which actually has no bearing on your final combination.

It would be faster/more intuitive if you could, for instance, just press Ctrl + Alt + d and then confirm that it's correct at the end.

Ok then well one thing you could do then, is to make sure that every menu item is VERY easy to find in the keyboard shortcut editor. From what I remember last time I played with VV it was all a bit hard to find, but I'll double check.

Here are the ideas I have got for the two subjects

To create a hotkey combination:
1.Once the keyboard layout dialog shows up, click to set on the "Combination Hotkey" option inside the dialog.
2.Click to turn on the wanted keys. Or press down those acual keys on keyboard.
3.Clic OK button to exit the dialog.

To find the tool in the hotkey editor related to a linear menu item:
1.Press down 'ESC' key on keyboard.
2.Open the menu, find the menu itme and click it. Instead of firing a command, the programe will open the hotkey editor with the related tool selected and visible.
A brief statement about this method will be presented in the hotkey editor so new user can have a way to know it.

Yep, pressing a trigger key first would work! Maybe not esc since it will be likely used by other tools tho. Maybe Insert, or End ?

just a tiny suggestion: how about you hold down the mouse for a longer period (like 2 sec) and a input dialog/ panel appears ready to listen for the input. Eventually in realtime that panel will show if there is a conflict with a existing shortcut and if you want to override it.
Rightclick and middle mouse button click on the menu commands could be other options to initiate the shortcut assignment tool/ popup.

I love silo but I agree its to easy to mess up your layout by accident, even more if you get a lot of commands.

I agree (again) wholeheartedly with Pior's post suggesting you go back to basics on interface and hotkeys.

I disagree with having the hotkey editor pop up when you want to change the shortcut, though. Silo's behaviour with the addition of pressing (for instance) END to alter the shortcut key is much nicer!

Thanks! renderhjs and MightyPea. The sad thing is in the Studio I am using, the menu item only has click event I can use to interact with user. There is no key and mouse events. So at the moment, press down a special key before activating the menu to link a menu item to a related tool in the hotkey editor seems the fastest way so far.

IStonia thanks for implementing Spherize, edge Curve Loop, edge Space Loop.

I'll give them a proper test soon.

I did notice a bug immediately on trying Curveloop. The outermost loops aren't included in the operation.


Also 1 thing which I think is missing from this tool is the ability to add in 2 further [terminating] edge loops that the curveloop operation will work within. This way we can use Curveloop on selected parts of a mesh.

Ok, I will improved that. Currently you don't have to select the end loop edges. I will make it work in this way, the operation only works between selection loop edges, that would solve the problems you mentioned. But for closed loops, how can you tell which part you want to work with? Using length comparing seems not a good idea since it may not be what your intention. The only solution I can think of is hiding that portion of polygons so the programe will leave the part alone.

Originally Posted by IStonia

But for closed loops, how can you tell which part you want to work with?

I've been having a think about this and come up with one possible solution.
This gif filesize is a bit bigger than usual, sorry


The captions are (in case they're illegible):

• Endloop Marker - direction
• Endloop Marker can be placed anywhere
• It will give the direction of operation and the opposite terminating endloop.

If there is no Edgeloop Marker then I guess the entire closed loop will be used.

by the way you should be able to insert as many edgeloops as you need and the curveloop operation should use all of them until it gets to the final terminating loop.

Spherize - Doesn't make selection spherical if the edges aren't evenly spaced.

Expected Result: Spherize should space evenly the verts that are selected and in direct connection by edges.

• Should work in polygon mode also.
• Should NOTaffect unselected geometry.

Space Loop - Doesn't seem to work as intended. At the moment it has the same result as Curve Loop.

Expected Result: Space loop should work on basis of connected edges (Edge Loops) and evenly place vertices based on original edge positions.

• Should work with polygon selection also.
• Should NOT affect vertices that aren't selected.

ghib: I have done some changes regarding Curve Loop and Space Loop. The menu position of these two tools are moved up a level. I make it this way, the app will find the loop by edges, but it will find selections by vertices. So the tools will work in all vertex/edge/polygon modes.
As to the edge marker idea, It has some shortages. It doesn't work in vertex/polygon mode, it can't work on a single loop. So I would prefer to hide some polygons to break down the loop and unhide polygon afterwards.
I still don't get the idea of selection spherizing. Can you create a demo for that. I absolutely don't know what is the goal, What constraint I should use. Currently, I create a sphere base on the selection and cast the selection onto the sphere surface. I thought that's pretty much close to the meaning of the word 'Sherize'.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Downlo...rld-Dec-14.rar

Hi IStonia, thanks for posting the update.

Spherize - the problem perhaps is wrapping the selected geometry around a sphere, it's too complicated and I can see problems where vertices are snapped to the wrong side of the temporary sphere (I also incorrectly named the tool Spherize) The tool should be renamed to Circularise or something along these lines to give us more of a 2d based end result.
I think the best thing to do would be to have a look at Wings3d - Circularise
Compare:
Wings-


Voidworld-

The resulting vertices in VW aren't evenly spaced around the originally selected edge loop.

Wings' circularise leaves the tool in interactive mode after the circularise function has been performed and allows the user to interactively set the amount. Very handy.

Also having a look at Wings again this tool won't work in polygon mode unfortunately as [quote] 'Selected edge loops must be non-intersecting and be either all open or closed'

ghib: I can see in wings the selected vertices are placed within a plane. Can you move some vertices up/down(perhaps make it a bit extreme) and try the function again. I want to see the result from this so I can have the correct idea of how it works.
Also can you give feedbacks on the improved CurveLoop and SpaceLoop.

hi IStonia- I don't have anything to add to the discussion right now, I just wanted to say I've been following the thread for a while now and I'm very keen to see how VW turns out- I suspect there are many others also keeping an eye on this with anticipation I also agree with ghib and pior's suggestions btw

Keep up the great work!

Cheers for the vote of confidence Rooster

IStonia: Wings Circularise does indeed flatten it to a plane. I tried to make a more extreme example for you. You can see that it doesn't flatten it a particular world plane so I leave that up to you to decide how to best implement.
I think Wings does a pretty good job of sorting out this mess


The Curve loop works brilliantly so far. Nice one

With regards to hiding the geometry to isolate the operation I'm not sure this would flow well. As a modelling function I think making intricate selections to hide components and then perform the function will hamper workflow (especially if the scene is complex). Also, as an artist 1st, I need to be able to constantly see the area I'm working on in relation to the rest of the mesh. Hiding will disrupt this. Maybe it will be intuitive after having some hands on time.

As a final addendum (and in defense of the Endloop Marker idea) I would probably never use Curve loop in Polygon mode, Mostly in Edge mode and occasionally in Vertex mode.

Maybe we need other Polycount members to give their feedback but this is the way I would personally prefer to work. Continuously making selections then performing the function.

Space Loop currently doesn't behave correctly at the moment. Need to test this a bit further as it completely mangled a mesh earlier but it's working correctly now.

*edit*
Just noticed a BUG with 'loop select' button in edge mode.
With an open mesh if you double click on an open edge it will select the ring but if you single select an open edge and choose 'Loop Select' the operation doesn't work.

[BUG] - Customize Streamline Engine Tools

Creating a New Streamline tool will clear ALL settings for the rest of the existing Streamline Engine tools.

Current workaround is to Reset Selected tools one by one. Not ideal.

One final thing before I log off for the night.

Can you think of any way to implement hotkeys so that pressing the keys in any combination/sequence will activate the targeted tools?

I ask this because I am trying to emulate the setup I have in Silo as accurately as I can in Voidworld.

So I have Ctrl + Alt + RMB = Slide
In VW pressing Ctrl then Alt results in Rotate in viewport. Press Alt then Ctrl results in activating the slide tool.

This is highly undesirable and can cause a lot of frustration when trying to get into any sort of modelling flow.

Similarly if the Ctrl + RMB are released but Alt still held down it should automatically switch to viewport navigation again. VW needs to get rid of any fussy issues like this in order to flow properly.

Thanks, keep up the great work.. Voidworld is really coming together.

p.s. sorry for spamming like this. I'm writing these as they come to me.

ghib: I will try to find out the way to solve the hotkey sequence problem. You may still remember that you asked for the view navigation enabled while the cut tool is still on. That's why Ctrl + Alt will cause view navigation because I make it general. I will make it only effective for some certain tools like cut tool that can benefit from this behaviour.
I can't reproduce the bug about the streamline tool after new tools are added. Can you explain the steps you used so I can follow to check the bug down?

rooster: Thanks for adding the psychological element into this thread. It can be more valuable than a feature suggestion.

I'd like to add to the psychological element I've been following the developments closely (and it looks very positive), but not had enough time to contribute to testing (hopefully in the new year).

Great progress so far, I can vouch that a lot of people are watching who haven't had a chance to step in with input yet

Hehe yeah same here, I try it every now and then but I mostly watch in anticipation Its getting close to being a very, very good basemesh maker kind of program!

Ist, Ill try to dig further in it over the weekend. Im also in the process of recording some little modeling videos in Max, Ill send them your way asap since there might be some ideas to get inspiration from.