Originally Posted by IStonia

Right, I understand Shift+RMB does not interfere with selection now. I need to know what does [tweak Inset Scale] do so I can see if I can implement it.

The full mouse customization will be available in the upcoming update.

Good to hear! Thanks for listening. =]

http://www.digitalfossils.com/Downlo...rld-Oct-27.rar

Summary of changes
* Radial menu is improved.
* When in full screen mode, if a button tool like BG Image is opened, the full sreen will maintain and the tool's setting controls will appear in a floating form.
* Lots hotkey shortcut tools are added. Please note that some tools' name ends with "#", that means it can work with Redirect Modifier Key (default key is Caps) to perform a similar/opposite action or to bring up an option dialog. eg. if you set [Ctr+L = Loop Insert], [Caps+Ctrl+L] will bring up the loop insert option dialog. Also please note that there are two groups of tools which don't have "#" in tool names but they also can work with Redirect Modifier Key. These two groups are primitive object creation tools and streamline tools.

Radial menu working like expected. Nice work, I ike the new shortcut capbilities, and mouse button selection is nice too.

Hi Kun, just wondering if there's option to make streamline engine being docked into the left side of the window/desktop or at least make it visible permanently with transparency option? I started to rely heavily on keyboard shortcut and everytime I wanna refer to it made me have to pause the cursor for a while. I know it's just 0.5 secs but if you accumulate it by the end of the day it already save you couple minutes.

Just my thought.

And just a fancy request, customizable viewport background (like gradient)
If you grant it I'll help you create presets of each software.

Did a quick test and can only point out a couple things right now:

1. I honestly liked the old radial better. Why? Because I don't chase it across the screen... meaning, i have to go all the way to the end to access the commands. By then, the radial has moved across the screen. I don't know. Hard to explain here I guess.

2. When in fullscreen and I use Tweak, it brings up a floating window. I cant do any other operations other than tweak until I close the window. The last build, I could use tweak all day long and perform other operations.

I just noticed a fault with the snapping. You can't snap using 1 axis (or 2); it always snaps to the absolute coordinates of the target.

I have a few more requests after testing VW a bit more.

1. Loop Select Slide edges - holding G on an edge instantly slides a full loop. Accidental edge loop sliding can occur with this function the way it is; and is also duplicated by holding LMB.

2. The edge loop 'G' tool is a good idea but I think it gets slightly confusing. Edge loop slide should be just a simple function on it's own. The edge/poly loop/ring selection could be simplified thus; Select 1 edge/poly. The following selections could dictate the loop/ring style. a) Shift + double click adjacent component to select full loop/ring. b) Shift + double click a distant edge/poly to select Range. c) Ctrl + Shift double click for gap-loop select. Once selection is made the edge sliding can be performed. This way the mouse can be anywhere on the screen

3. Placing multiple functions on a single hotkey is a good idea unless it conflicts with a contradictory function. e.g with nothing selected and holding S will give you loop cut but with edges selected will collapse those edges. The fact that the resulting edges of the loop cut remain selected they can be accidentally collapsed if further quick loop cuts are required.


My personal opinion is that too much is being crammed onto each hotkey. It works in some instances but not all.
What would be interesting is if you gave users the ability to fully customise all hotkeys. i.e. open up the options to each mouse button in combination with hotkey. This would really give VW power and a huge advantage over all competition.

1 more quick thing before I quit for the night..

I there a raycast select method in VW. I can't seem to find an option for it.

thanks

[Elte]: Can't make the StreamlineEngine transparent. But I can make an option so it can stay visible all time.
Yeah, you can give me some viewport images and i'll give it a go.

[Kris]: I will make an option so you can have the previous radial menu style.
Not sure whats the problem with tweak tool. The behaviour is still the same. If the button Tweak tool is on, you can't do other operations. I guess the tweak tool you used before is the streamline tweak tool.

[ghib]: Not sure about the snapping fault. Do you mean it should can snap along 1 or 2 axis rather than all 3 axis?
1.I will disable the edge G tool's NMB function since it can cause accidental sliding.
2.The selection made by G tool has its advantages. You can create boolean selection with it if selection boolean keys are also pressed.
3.I will make the cut out edges as not selected in edge S tool.
The streamline tool mouse cutomizable is a big task, but I will look into that at some stage.
For raycast selection, use MMB for marquee selection.

I think I set the vertex tweak to control instead of the standard tweak. Works fine now.

Originally Posted by IStonia

[ghib]: Not sure about the snapping fault. Do you mean it should can snap along 1 or 2 axis rather than all 3 axis?

Yes this is exactly what I meant So, for instance, if you have vertex snapping on and you want to snap one vertex to another but only in the x & y axes you would just select the xy handle on the gizmo and snap.

Originally Posted by IStonia

1.I will disable the edge G tool's NMB function since it can cause accidental sliding.

Thanks for this, others may like this function though so it might be best to leave it as an option.

Also thanks for the other tips.

I have a couple more suggestions after testing this morning related to Viewport Navigation.

There's a small navigation tweak I'd like to see in VW. In Maya and 3DCoat there is an option to turn on 'tumble around point of interest' Meaning; regardless of having anything selected or having subobjects selected when you hold Alt + LMB it will rotate the view around the point on the mesh that lies directly under your mouse pointer.
Some people hate it but I can't live without it and is great when modelling and rotating around fingers and other areas of local detail that are off the model's main Pivot. If the mouse pointer is in free space then the viewport rotates around the selected model's Main Pivot and with nothing selected will rotate around the World origin.

Secondly, I noticed that you have snap the views to orthographic or perspective using Shift/Ctrl + Space. It would be useful if we could simply use this while holding Alt + LMB to quickly snap while rotating. No need then for Space. This is how Zbrush & 3DCoat have implemented viewport snapping and it works well. (Incidentally, is there a quick way to come out of Orthographic mode?)

I'm loving this tool btw

Do you mean while Alt+LMB rotating view, press down Shift/Ctrl to snap view without exiting view rotation first? If not, please elaborate.
Currently there is no shortcut to toggle Perspective/Orthographic, I will make one.

yes this is how it currently works in zbrush and 3dCoat. I actually quite like how you have rotate view locked in Orthographic. (in 3ds Max it is not and drives me mad) A nice variation on this is seen in Silo's Orthographic views where Alt + LMB will rotate the view in a similar way as Photoshop or Corel Painter's rotate Canvas. It's freeform until it reaches a threshold at the 90degree angles where it will snap and lock.

I can think of no instance where I need to snap the view in Perspective mode (other's may disagree) so perhaps the Orthographic views remain locked until Ctrl is pressed to unlock it then released to further navigate in Perspective mode.

*edit* I've been playing around with the tweak tool (which is now set to Ctrl thanks) I noticed that the LMB MMB RMB functionality (move,rotate,scale) only works if you have components selected. This should also work with the pre-selection highlighting.

Also there is a slight inconsistency between the various components with the 'H' key for normal move. In my opinion there should only be 1 function for Local Move that works for all the components and whether geometry is selected or using pre-selection highlighting.

thanks

Actually my initial plan was to use alt+shift+lmb to 'lock' perspective into orthographic, but the issue is how do we get back to persp again? I agree with you rotate view in orthographic view drive me mad too and therefore I prefer no tumble in orthographic view. That's my reason I asked IStonia to use a toggle instead.

we're able to do it in zbrush because the camera is not really perspective anyway. I haven't seen how 3dcoat view snap was so couldn't comment on it.

There must be selection made for tweak tool to work with. The tweak move works in this way, if there is selection, it will move the selection. If there is no selection, when LMB down, the selection will be made and the selection will be dropped once the operation finished.
The normal move tool for vertex and polygon are different. for vertex normal move, it uses vertex's normal. For polygon, it is local move, the direction it uses is selection dependent. I prefer to keep it so user can have more options. I will create a component mode independent normal move tool so you use to normal move vertex/edge/polygon selected or hilighted.

Originally Posted by IStonia

There must be selection made for tweak tool to work with. The tweak move works in this way, if there is selection, it will move the selection. If there is no selection, when LMB down, the selection will be made and the selection will be dropped once the operation finished.
The normal move tool for vertex and polygon are different. for vertex normal move, it uses vertex's normal. For polygon, it is local move, the direction it uses is selection dependent. I prefer to keep it so user can have more options. I will create a component mode independent normal move tool so you use to normal move vertex/edge/polygon selected or hilighted.

This is how I would expect it to work also but in your latest release only unselected tweak with LMB works. MMB & RMB tweaking without a selection being made doesn't work but does work if the components are selected. Expected result- Tweak should work in all instances.

Am I right in saying that currently if you're in vertex mode the 'H' key moves the vertex along it's normal and in Poly mode it uses face normal? What about edges? would it use the average normal direction of the connecting vertices or something else? I'm glad you're working on a solution that encompasses all of the selection/component modes. The reason I brought this up is that it would be great if we could assign Ctrl + RMB to tweaking along normals on all component selections.

I just noticed something with the Streamline Engine Cut tool (which is absolutely fantastic btw.. cutting across multiple edges is so sweet) Is there any way you can think of that will allow you to rotate the viewport while using this tool. Currently it locks you out.

I love the solid predictive preview you get in the cut tool and I noticed while hovering somewhere in the middle of a poly it tries to predict a connection to a vertex. I think it would be highly useful if pressing MMB when you're happy with a result would connect to that final destination vertex but not actually place the mid poly vertex. (so you would get a solid edge between the last edge and the final vertex)
Also RMB could END your particular cut so you can start a new one.

cheers.

Ghib's got a good point about the tools working with hilighted geometry. In silo I can use commands like inset scale, move along normals, slide, etc just like I do with tweak. That's why I bind all that stuff into the mouse, so I can have fast access to them and use them all the time as specialized tweak tools. When I don't need to be working on selections and just want to make lots of fast tweaks with constraints or without, silo allows for it. There's no forced "select first, then operate" hoops to jump through, unless I want to.

Your description of how tweak works sounds pretty much how silo does it - silo just does it for more tools than Tweak. At least that's how it looks when I'm working with it. A hilighted component becomes a selected component while tweaking, or doing any other operation that also works with hilighting, then dropped when you let go.

Absolutely James. I think the key to this app being a solid contender is consistency across all aspects of it's toolset. For instance, I just noticed that when in Vertex mode and pressing the 'G' key to open up slide options sometimes you will be able to slide the vertex past the terminating vertex and sometimes not. It seems to alternate between LMB, MMB, RMB. For edge sliding purposes it makes sense to me to stop sliding an edge or vertex or poly selection at the connecting end vertices.

I'll start writing up any bugs or problems I have with this app from now on instead of bombarding this thread

You can always do what I do for him and just make a video showing the bugs and comparisons in other apps. He sees it faster and can implement it or not better that way.

That's a good idea Kris. What are the best free capture tools these days? I used to use Camtasia a while back but I don't have it here at work. Also is it better to make a looping animated Gif? I tried a few free vid capture tools but they were awful.

camstudio: opensource and free camtasia clone:
http://camstudio.org/

jing is also usefull. it gives you a screen recorder and free uoload/hosting space. very easy and quick

Nice one guys, I'll give them a go.

Sorry I wouldn't recommend Jing, it's nice but streaming from certain country is painful. I would stick with camstudio and upload it to utube or vimeo instead. Found this one http://screenr.com/ but doubt it'll be as good as camstudio or camtasia. Anyway..let's get back to the topic

Sending you a wave this time.

http://www.digitalfossils.com/Downlo...orld-Nov-6.rar

Summary of changes
* Edit > Customize Radial Menus.
* Edit > Radial Menu Options.
* Edit > SmartTips Options > Visible All time
* Edit > StreamLine Engine Options > Customize Tools. Streamline tool's mouse buttons can be remapped by user. The Tweak tool's pick style option no longer lives in the button Tweak tool's setting area. It can either be set in the streamline Tweak tool's own options or through a dedicated shortcut command. There are 35 extra streamline tools are added for user to assign commands through its events, they don't have fixed functions and their names can be modified. This is to provide the convenience to group a bunch of related commands and bind them under one hotkey combo. 25 of these 35 tools are mode sensetive so you only need to set a hotkey combo for every 5 tools. In other words, if you want to set up all these extra 35 tools, only 10 hotkey combos are needed.
* Snapping is improved again with single/double axis constraint.
* While view rotation tool is active, press down Shift/Ctrl key to toggle view snapping. It has the same effect as Shift/Ctrl + Space. Press down snap to directional view, press down again back to perspective.
* "Tumble around point of interest" implemented. [RedirectModifierKey(default:Caps) + Alt + LMB] to rotate view. If there is an object ray intercept point under cursor, the viewport will rotate around that point. If the cursor is in free space, the viewport rotates around the selected model's Main Pivot and with nothing selected will rotate around the world origin.
* Streamline tools no longer block view navigation, so after the tool's hot key is pressed down, user still can navigate the view as normal.
* Cut tool improved.. MMB to skip polygon point, RMB to do last cut and terminate.
* Streamline Tweak tool is improved. It can work with both selected and highlighted subobjects. Normal move function is added into Tweak tool and the mouse button is X2.
* A variation in streamline Tweak tool's scale function. +Shift will Scale in view plane 2D space.
* Some more prefernce settings are added.

Thanks!

Hi Kun, regarding the visible all time smarttips, is it possible to remove the 'delay'? For example when I switch from vertex to edge, it takes about 0.5 sec to change. Would be cool if it's constantly changes

Sure can.