I suppose this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who works in this industry, but it's still disheartening to read. Six months of crunch and still going? Performance warnings for not working 11+ hours/day? I know it's only one side of the story, but seriously, ugh. Hope no one else is going through crap like this right now...

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Rocks...themselves.php

Its shit like this that makes me glad Im with an indie.

wow, forcing them to take sick days to see a doctor on saturday?

keep taking it in the butt, rockstar employees. I can only assume none of you have ever saved up any money in the bank and expect to never be hired by anyone else ever again.

fuck do i have an awesome job. i need to complain less.


edit: that was probably too harsh. Lots of people have families to look after.

Makes me really grateful for EU labor laws.

wer in crunch right now, 7 days a week! yay!

Gotta get that money money money *SQUEEEZE*

This isn't the first story like this I hear about RS San Diego, lots of bad stuff going on there apparently.

Originally Posted by JohnnyRaptor

wer in crunch right now, 7 days a week! yay!

How do you handle that without going insane? After 2 weeks it becomes less about standing up for yourself, and more about figuring out how to physically stand up at all from sheer exhaustion.

When companies completely decouple the worker from the profitability of the final product (ie no real profit sharing unless the game sells 50 million units) why would someone destroy their health for a job?

I don't get how people in the gaming industry keep putting up with shit like that, we need a union or labor laws or something.

Because the FEAR of being replaced. Go to China and all that, or fear that they will be ostracized from the industry for sticking up for themselves. Illegal it may be, it does happen.

FEAR
(Laughs evilly!)

Heard rockstar north (the main one in europe) was the same. It's a shame. I don't think i could put up with it. Not for any longer than a week or two.

I will never break my back for someone else than myself. Guess my future job applications went out the door now

makes pretty grim reading- just hope that something can be done to sort out labour laws or take R* to court if they are breaking any laws....

I think the industry really does need to start looking at sorting out a union, or at least some kind of body that can act for the employees if they feel they're getting a raw deal.

Is that seriously legal to treat employees like that in the United States?

If so, I am pretty sure I will be staying in Europe. I don't mind working really long hours, but performance warnings for less than 11 hours a day? That is what i would expect from factory work in the 19th century..

Originally Posted by ZacD

I don't get how people in the gaming industry keep putting up with shit like that, we need a union or labor laws or something.

It's difficult. In most studios you have a range of people. Management will target the "weakest" members of the team first, then use that to pressure the ones with more clout. They ask the interns, people who it's their first job, or anyone in love with the company and doesn't want to work anywhere else. Most of the time people in this category will do the work out of fear of losing the job (and for them it probably is a valid fear). Then you have 1-3 people who could get a job elsewhere, or won't put up with it, but management will make it seem like they aren't team players, and it's their fault the game is suffering.

The phrase "failure to plan on your part, doesn't constitute an emergency on mine" always comes to mind. I've never been in a position where the game was behind because I was taking too long, it's always been that the tasks were poorly planned, or radically changed at the last minute. That'd be ok if the overtime was paid for, but to expect an employee to eat their freetime to make up for someone else's (who's getting higher salary) sweeping changes or incompetence is ridiculous.

But it's very rare for someone to stand up for themselves, almost all the power is in the hands of the company. Which is why unions would be a good thing, putting negotiating power in the hands of the workers.

Originally Posted by bbob

Is that seriously legal to treat employees like that in the United States?

No, but people put up with it anyway. I mean this happens in european studios also. I know a certain German studio that does loads of unpaid overtime, which is highly illegal, but there are all of 2-3 large funded studios here, so people put up with it to work in games.

Shoot, I heard I/O interactive crunched over 10 months for Kane & Lynch, no way that's legal in Denmark.

Indies ftw. I've got my own personal time for going to the office, I go at 5 in the afternoon and work till 9, and I do the bulk of my work at home. No stress, no fuss, not a lot of money either, but still.

poop. I think every major studio in the nordic countries do it aswell. I've been lucky so far.

Meh, yeah ok..

So its the inflation of people willing to do anything to work in games that is allowing this to happen, that and the blatant lack of unions?

Depressing, really.

Originally Posted by poopinmymouth

The phrase "failure to plan on your part, doesn't constitute an emergency on mine" always comes to mind. I've never been in a position where the game was behind because I was taking too long, it's always been that the tasks were poorly planned, or radically changed at the last minute. That'd be ok if the overtime was paid for, but to expect an employee to eat their freetime to make up for someone else's (who's getting higher salary) sweeping changes or incompetence is ridiculous.

Abso-fucking-lutely. Well said, Ben.

i just dont get what a 12hrs 6/7 days a week crunch would help the development, tired and exhausted workers just make more mistakes that needs to be fixed again

a week of crunch every now and then is completely understandable to put more polish in before an milestone, but not that it becomes the norm...

Originally Posted by bbob

Meh, yeah ok..

So its the inflation of people willing to do anything to work in games that is allowing this to happen, that and the blatant lack of unions?

Depressing, really.

True, but sadly it's nothing new and not just in games. There's been talk of unions in all aspects of CG for years. You could substitute the word 'games' in your post with any CG / entertainment-related field and it'd be just as relevant, and just as widespread.

There's a thread entitled Unpaid Artists over at CGTalk, which details first-hand the plight of Canadian VFX artists that were shafted out of substantial sums of money in unpaid wages by the Discovery Channel which makes for a very sobering read - and it's not an isolated occurrence by any means.

I've heard some of this long hour stuff buddies at R* SD. Didn't know it was this bad.

If they are working on red dead redemption im fine with it
Work Harder!

@danshewan: You are right, that thread is a very sobering read indeed. Let me take the liberty to link it here, as it is quite relevant.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=652434

Originally Posted by David Rand

There is plenty of competition, but also plenty of demand for digital content. I believe we need to at least begin by unionizing online to report abuse, bad business, and rotten tomatoe fx houses.

The same might well be said about game studios?

just imagine the working staff as ww2 airplane engine

from time to time you have to use full speed to tackle the one or other bad situation. And a good pilot knows how to use full speed wisely!

But a beginner thinks "wow, full speed is way better then flying with reduced speed.. so put the throttle to full speed and wohooooooo.."
He will end up on the ground or learn very fast..


Well man, I think thats really the best way to explain it


(sucking out the power of our staff and then throw them away to get new ones, would not fit this example ...)