just thaught of a stance i wanted to draw so gave it a go, kinda went for a anime look but tryed to make it my own style so tell us what you think, critique or what ever you like, would love to know what you think, ps i kinda cheated a lil on the bricks.. but who can be -bleep-ed >:P

please fill out this form...

purpose you've made this:

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wall
material:
era:
symbolic purpose:
compositional goal:

picture/poster
material:
era:
content:
symbolic purpose:
compositional goal:

ground
material:
era:
symbolic purpose:
compositional goal:

person
race:
emotion:
action:
hair style:
era:
symbolic purpose:
compositional goal:

shirt
material:
era:
symbolic purpose:
compositional goal:

pants
material:
era:
symbolic purpose:
compositional goal:

shoes
material:
era:
symbolic purpose:
compositional goal:

gun
material:
era:
symbolic purpose:
compositional goal:

O.O... damn.. okay
purpose you've made this: I was practicing just making posing stick figuers trying to correct my bad size scale of body parts and stiff postures of most of my drawings and i came out with this pose which i just thaught would look cool in my head, so then i made it into a pen drawing over the stick skeleton and its just evolved
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wall
material: chinese style hand made brick and a gravley testured plaster board or what ever theyre made of, u see alot at the front of metracon homes
era:bricks.. probably 1920's style or even earlier, textuered plaser boareds are the same but has fresh paint.
symbolic purpose: none
compositional goal: to give the feel of a done-up old original building in china town to set the scene

picture/poster
material: that roller paper most band posters are made of
era: modern
content: loosly based on the style of cypress hills posters
symbolic purpose: none
compositional goal: to place it in modern times

ground
material: cement and asfelt or how ever u spell it
era: modern pave of rode slightly old sidewalk
symbolic purpose: none
compositional goal: just to have a ground for the city setting

person
race: asain-white mix
emotion:being bad ass
action: wall lean while resting musket on shoulders behind neck
hair style: anime-ish asain hair style
era: modern
symbolic purpose: being a modern representative of a cowboy.. ive been watching alot of westerns l8ly
compositional goal: focus of piece

shirt
material:buisness shirt light material
era: modern take on traditional asain clothing
symbolic purpose: none
compositional goal: to add more definition to the ethnicity of the person

material:pants light verrryyy slightly shiny pant suit matirial, bone colour (based on pants i own)
era: modern
symbolic purpose: none
compositional goal: thaught it would look nice with the shirt with the ironed crease and alls >.>... and also give a slightly marfia feel to his outfit

shoes
material: shiney leather
era: modern
symbolic purpose: none
compositional goal: also to give it a slightly buisness thug marfia feel with the pointiness and alls

gun
material: varnished mahogany shoulder rest with white paint on the end, bronze triger, handle and.. that other thing that i dont know what its called.. below the barrel, and a silver barrle
era:... very old
symbolic purpose: again with the western cowboy symbolism.. i know the gun is probably a bit befor cowboys buy that style of barrel matched the style of the shirt and the charicter better
compositional goal: to make the charicter more agressive and to complete the marfia style even though its a verry old gun.. gives him charicter

WOW he actually filled it out... wait were you serious did you really want him to fill it out X_X

The gun looks kinda out of scale to me, it looks huge.

Its a blunderbuss, it is probably close to scale. Is he leaning against the wall, its hard to tell?

i think defining the purpose of your piece should always be the first step, it is the most important step in making a piece of art. it's kind of like thinking before you act. you want to have a goal and purpose in mind. it doesn't have to be great and meaningful. something as simple as studying or practice is fine. i think this is important, because without it, without a goal, you would not be able to personally determine if you had succeeded or not.

drawing poses is an important ability to have. characters are quite often the subject of interest in paintings.

how i begin is doing what i think you've done, you say you drew stick figures. the term artists use is gestures or thumbnails. they look like this:



to do good thumbs, you'll need to have an understanding of the human anatomy and the transfer of movement and weight of fat and muscle on the skeleton. you'll also need a good grasp of the rules of perspective. you'll want to keep these simplified, carefree, and fluid. with your goal in mind (to create a comfortable, relaxed leaning figure holding a gun over his shoulder and a smoke in his other hand, looking badass, confident) you should make a few, pick ones you like and embellish them by making other variants of it, try showing it from different perspectives. once you have the one you like, enlarge it some so you can fit in some loose detail to get an idea of what the end result will be. again, it's thinking before you act. You're basically trying to decide, "is this worth drawing? or not?" and try to make visual notes of what needs to be done to get there.

assume that step is done. something you'd like is a background, to contrast the modernness of the character, to make him feel out of his element, making him more interesting. there are many more ways of achieving these goals, other than the obvious. you could try making anything old, use darker colors, and newer things use lighter colors. it gives the painting conceptual depth. i think the best paintings have these. god is in the details.

the setting you've created isn't describing what you've written, i'd say you're failing in that area. what you hoped it be saying, isn't being spoken. the bricks, cement, asphalt, plaster walls, all look very quick and bland. not very descriptive. you need to work more on your rendering, and use painting techniques that visually describe the material as what it is. use reference.




your bricks look pretty messy. you need to work on what's called your craftsmanship, basically it's your ability to keep it within the lines, making those lines you're keeping within, straight, smooth, and sharp. clean gradients, solid deliberate blocking. basically, you need to learn how to write like a girl and apply that steady hand to your artwork.

also, you need to work on your understanding of color theory so that everything in your scene is harmonized with one another. you also need to work on your ability to render forms.

i've found that composition is more than just the balanced arrangement of forms and how they interact with one another. composition can be much more than that. it can convey moods and control the eye. every element is rooted to the composition. the slight shift in hue of an edge, can change the entire effect of a piece. every line, every space matters. a large part of your composition is controlled by the lighting of the scene, and it should be thought out ahead of time.

i think you should give it another go, and i'll get you some feedback at each stage.

i hope this feedback is helpful. it's the least i could do after you filling out a form and not really get much from it. my intention with the form was to point out how disjointed everything felt, your themes were not harmonizing.

if you're willing, lets start at the beginning, and try to make this piece better, to hit each stage of the painting process so that you'll better understand it.

make some thumbnails with the same goals as before, but lets try a viewpoint that will amplify the feeling you're looking for; views that make him look more badass. my first reaction is to try a lower view, looking up at the figure.

wow. Killingpeople for president.

+1

yea, hah im gettin jealous! i need me some hotness feedback like that ;D

I think KP got some really good weed.

I really like the gesture of your characters face. You've definitely have a good approach to what you're aiming for.

yeah your right something about it just doesnt look right, like when i open it up i dont get the feeling i want, like iunno, i kinda want it to look better, and yeah its leaning against the wall but i failed to make it apparent which is probably the biggest problem due to the problem i had making the shadow behind him right, but the gun is sposed to be pretty over the top being anime based and thanks for the awsome fead back.. very.. indepth lol and sure, you want me to start with thumbnails of posed like your ones of the bellet dancer?

If we were all given awesome advice like that... the world would be awesome :P.

I like the picture though, just start on the model and go with the flow, doesn't gave to be a certain way, make it unique.

hey well i did a thumb skeleton, i already liked the stance but i like your upwards view idea so i did the sam stance but on a angled upwards look starting with this V theenn i did a rough line drawing on computer over it to give an idea (things will be changed) of what it would look like which is VV, but im thinking of changing the gun to more of a cowboy stile rifle and adding alot more sence of theme, like.... i dunno lol just got an idea what i want it to look like, btw thnx for doing this killing

btw if your wondering why my computer drawing loks like i got parkinsons with all the shaking its because i use a mouse since i lost my tablet pen a while a go and can manage tew find it

alright, not exactly what i was hoping to see from you. we have two problems here.

1. i asked "make some thumbnails", and well, these are not thumbnails. it's just ONE pose. i was hoping to see at least 5. you've actually skipped the step entirely. what you have now is what would come after you've made thumbnails. thumbs are small in size. one thumbnail sketch would fit in the area you used for your character's foot. the reason they're small is to prevent you from adding detail. it allows you to focus, just on the silhouette and pose of your figure.

2. you're trying to make a digital painting with a mouse. this is a major problem for what we're trying to do here. i mean, it's still possible, but the fact you can hardly type is a large enough hurdle for me to deal with. painting with a mouse will take 10 times longer.

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i think you did end up with something better than what you had before, so all is not lost. the pose is pretty cool. so, we can just work with it. i like the motto of just following whatever comes natural.

what i'd like you to do next, is develop the actual character further by breaking off elements and giving them attention. just do it in a sketchbook for now, i see you have a scanner, so that will work great. stay away from photoshop brushes for this one, they don't have to be awesome sketches either, the idea is just to embellish the conceptual design. break each part of his outfit and flesh it out.

i want to see something like this:


keep it up ;)

KP - What's it like to be you? You crazy. You just crazy.

cycrasx - No tablet? In addition to all of the advice KP's giving you, which I won't dare touch for fear of getting sucked in by the black hole that is "knowledge KP is willing to dish out", I will say this. If this piece is supposed to be portfolio-worthy painting for display, trying it with a mouse is going to kill you. Your best bet by that point is just to do 80% of the tough stuff in pencil or some other traditional medium, scan it, and then simply use photoshop for some color overlay or touchups to complete and present the piece. If it's meant to be a sketch, just a concept idea you wanted to toss out, then by all means I think it gets a point across at least on the character in which case I'd say scrap the background as a whole.

Assuming you are trying to make this a finished piece in and of itself, keep at it, I would encourage you to to keep working with KP's good advice for as long as you're able. In the end, at least then you can say "There, I tried."

Cheers.

hey kp, thanks for all the information you presented, I will be following this thread myself, and using your advice to benefit my projects-to-come as well.

as a side note: 'god is in the details' - that really intrigued me. To elaborate for anyone else unsure of this quotes meaning:

Some say “The devil is in the details,” meaning solutions break down when you examine them closely enough. Some say “God is in the details,” meaning opportunities for discovery and creativity come from digging into the details. Both are true, but the latter is more interesting.
-http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/03/30/god-is-in-the-details/


C

I don't think thats what that phrase means. the devil is in the details means they are the hardest trickiest bits, not that detail is bad or going into detail is bad
edit: it can also mean that overlooking the details can be dangerous or cause trouble (eg a contract, or mechanical plans, etc)

i knowww the mouse kills mhe.. takes me like 10 times to get the line i wanted in the 1st place, lolsorry for skipping a step butt thats really the stance i want, ill tryyy and find that -bleeping- tablet pen.. but no its not ment to be for a portfolio i just enjoy drawing, dont try to get a job or any thing from it, just mouses are slow, took me like 5 days to do that last thing just because redoing every line so many times, btw, ima do a brain storm on the theme and stuff 1st befor and maybe get a theme board, wont post that though

Originally Posted by cycrasx

i knowww the mouse kills mhe.. takes me like 10 times to get the line i wanted in the 1st place, lolsorry for skipping a step butt thats really the stance i want, ill tryyy and find that -bleeping- tablet pen.. but no its not ment to be for a portfolio i just enjoy drawing, dont try to get a job or any thing from it, just mouses are slow, took me like 5 days to do that last thing just because redoing every line so many times, btw, ima do a brain storm on the theme and stuff 1st befor and maybe get a theme board, wont post that though

Tablets are pretty cheap..well.. Depends what kind you get. The cheapest are the bamboo ones, right? They're what.. $70-110? I know drawing is for fun and not for a portfolio..but imagine.. Imagine if you can draw even better than this, and imagine how much MOAR fun you can have, how does that sound!

sounds like.. fun? i prefer the ease factor as motivation for finding that damb tablet pen, but i didnt flesh out a final charicter i desided to work more on the symbolism and get down the themes which i wanted, so 1st i made a pic of everything i find bad ass (cleche style) then mixed a cowboy with a samuria outfit (for the anime-ish style) and tryed to modernise it a bit, which will be the second pic, ill add refrence pics for the second one to show how i got it butt now im probably gunna mix and match for a fleshed out final design, should i?



andd the refrence pics to show what style i was going for

good job, this is exactly the kind of stuff i wanted to see from you! i think your subject will become much more believable and interesting after these design sketches you've made.

Originally Posted by cycrasx

ill add refrence pics for the second one to show how i got it butt now im probably gunna mix and match for a fleshed out final design, should i?

exactly what i'd expect to see, lets keep going in this direction you're headed. this is where you find interesting and new ideas, the more mixing and matching and brainstorming, the better off you'll be.

k i thinkk i have an idea of what it will look like now, lol kind of stole that guys style on his fleshing out butt i liked how much detail information you could fit onto it and its only a fleshing out drawing, still workout out weather i should wear a har orrr sunglasses though, hat will be more relivent... but gawd sunglasses are bad ass lol even if in this pic in this style and size reminds me of kim jong il

so he's developed a lot, he looks much more interesting and much more thought out now.

i couldn't help but notice his proportions have changed a lot. he looks to be the size of a midget due to the size of his head. midgets can still be bad-ass, but he's not going to fit into our pose in the same way.

i think you're having scale issues with his guns. mentally move them to his hands and compare their sizes. the clip is as big as one of his fingers. not the typical characteristics of a bad-ass looking gun. elpig's work oozes with style, he's definitely someone you'd be wise to use as inspiration. i should say, writing "will show more tattoo" defeats the purpose of fleshing out the design of the character. draw out the tattoo. give it some type of meaning that helps you achieve your design goals. you should spend some time drawing out the gun and cigarettes, there are lots of design opportunities to speak more about your character in these details.

once you're happy with your guy, you can move onto fleshing out the background elements in the same way. once that's done, we'll draw your dude over the pose you've decided on, and we'll move onto sketching in guides for the painting phase.

like Two Listen had suggested, we should probably do most the rending and stuff in pencil since you are without a wacom. that's what i'd advise to do. if you'd like to do the rendering and painting in photoshop, we can do that to.

interesting thread

thanks kp for giving alot of useful advice