Sup guys, I don't know if this has been pointed out before, and if so I apologize. Id Software is apparently making their next game rated TEEN which is worrysome because their games have always excelled at creating a frightening environment through the use of gore and horror elements in their games.

When I first played DOOM it was this feel, the combat, environment and the weight the violence played in the game to make you feel in a world that is unforgiving and cruel. I love that vibe I get from id Software's games. Yeah DOOM 3 could've been better but to me it was still a good experience.

So now we have id Software apparently doing something special with RAGE. Vehicles finially which is great. Its a new IP and is supposed to be free roaming. It also takes place in a post apocalyptic world. Sounds promising but I got discouraged when I read this...


"We did make the decision that, 'Yeah, the game would probably be a little bit more fun with exploding bodies, but it won't kill us to keep it down at a T rating," - John Carmack


So John Carmack who has done so much for the industry admits the game would be more fun with exploding bodies yet we aren't going to have that? Makes no sense to me.. well it does. It appears that id is trying to appeal to a younger market which reminds me of Star Wars right off the top of my head. I always saw Id Software, Raven Software, and EPIC Games as my go to guys for extreme violence. I liked it that way.

So if you feel that this doesn't make sense as I do and will hurt the game please sign the online petition I created. It will only take you like 20 seconds. I set it up so emails don't show and all that good stuff.

I'd like to hear your thoughts. TES Oblivion was even rated mature. Thats how far id Software is going to have to cut back to get its TEEN rating. I think they will be out of their element and it will suck.

http://www.petitiononline.com/bfg9000/petition.html

If you feel the same way forward this to whoever loves violence in their games. Like to hear your thoughts.


-armagon

It's their game. If they think it'll be fine as Teen, why not. Exploding bodies are hardly intergral to my gaming experience.

I'm with aesir, let them do what they want. Just because they've done one thing in the past doesn't mean they should forever do the same. I'm always happy to see people broaden their horizons.

Of course, it always does suck to see a developer specifically impeding the creative development of a game in order to get a lower rating, it's nessesary at times.

lol. I'm making a petition to fight demons in rage one at a time in narrow metal tunnels, because doom 3 was good.

I agree. But its the fact that John Carmack said the game would be more fun with exploding bodies that has me scratching my head. Its important to some of us so why not have an option to turn it off? Thats all I'm saying and just bringing it to everyone's attention.

I'm just worried cause the type of game they're making. Kenneth Scott is doing his usual badass mutant zombie creatures and it doesn't fit to me. Sure they can do what they want. And I applaud them for going in a new direction. I just know we are going to get a rocket launcher in this game. Its from Id so yeah definitly and its going to be very odd when they don't explode.

I think you guys mistook my love for violence with not changing anything, so I just wanted to clear that up. But check out the footage if you haven't already and the game just looks like it needs gore in areas. If you look close at the id tech 5 trailer there is a really cool clip of some really twisted.. I'm guessing things that were exposed to nasty radiation that would blend into the DOOM 3 crowd no problem. So for me it just doesn't fit. If they want to go TEEN thats fine but what they've shown doesn't fit IMO and I think that lack of consistancy is going to leave an empty feeling in combat.

It's their game. An online petition will change nothing.

You may as well create a petition against icebergs.

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lol. I'm making a petition to fight demons in rage one at a time in narrow metal tunnels, because doom 3 was good.

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huh? I think you're trying to make fun of me. I just didn't want to slam DOOM 3s gameplay alright. So I said it was a good experience. I liked DOOM 3 cause I was into the art. Yeah the close quarters combat with bad AI wasn't for me. Agreed. mixed feeling on that game I guess.

Im moderately disappointed. I cant imagine a less appropriate game to rate TEEN. But I'm sure it'll still be a good game without the meat chunks.

Interesting.. I'm definitly not getting the response I expected. Maybe you guys are ready for a TEEN game. I don't mean anything negative by that. Just suprised. What happened to everyone who liked gore? Are you all sleeping. Usually petitions do nothing, but for example the griping about Halo 2 brought back the asault rifle.. who knows. The thing took me a whole 2 minutes of my life to get up and going.

Oh come on man... I love gore as much as anybody else (probably more) but less gore is not going to make a less fun game.

Case and point: Call of duty 4. Some of the most intense and awesome combat in an FPS in a while, and they had VERY little blood.

Teen rating means more sales. I'm sure it will be awesome.

I think most of us just dont care about gore. Hell, I dont even like gore. It detracts from the overall experience when gore is everywhere and commonplace. If you are going to have gore, you use it for very very very selective intense experiences in the game. Gore as 'the norm' in a game world bores the shit outta me, and since thats how it is in every semi violent game (including TF2) I've gotten over it. I'd like it if gore got limited a bit more these days, not because Im against it, but because its overdone.

Maybe Carmack knows something we dont. Like that they're gonna start cracking down on M ratings soon and REALLY not selling to teens anymore.

I'm in the same boat, Armagon.

It's ids decision, but it still brings a tear to the eye when a dev known for its fucking awesome gorehaus games decides they're gonna try and appeal to a broader audience. IMO, even if your previous successes were gutmulching bloodshitting nastygrams, but they haven't been hitting the same success they used to, it usually lies in the gameplay end of things. Gears of War (albeit with an expensive, and perfectly executed marketing campaign.) managed to rope in a huge audience, many of course under the M level, just because it was a fucking great game. One of the things that made Gears great was the gore. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Best display of visual feedback in a shooter for a long time to come.

If RAGE were nothing but a kart racer, I'd see the purpose behind it, but paff paff smoke squibs coming out of a guy after being shot point blank with a shotty makes Uly cry. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Might'a been pushed on them by Activision, who knows, in the end though, it really does seem like a short term solution. From what I gathered from the few screens and trailers we've seen, why the fuck is this T rated anyway? Something just isn't right. Short term solution for short term gains. Whether or not your morally uncomfortable with the issue or not, if your game is great, the ESRB rating means shit to sales. Kids will get their hands on the game one way or the other.

And whether or not you say you care about gore, your brain is still subconciously saying, "that was a sweet kill", or "it looks like I pushed him over with air bullets". [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

PS. This is a good mix of opinion and pure, absolutely true fact. (Coz I said so.) Feedback doesn't have to be delivered through gore, even a nice crosshair flash can do it, but when the setting cries for it, you cry if it's not there...

Edit: It's like torture porn movies. Some are shallow, but they're still fucking cool to see! (Depending on the person.) Then you can have a movie that uses it sparingly, or practically never, and it can be way better. But when you have a great movie with gracious amounts of gore, ala Alien? BEST MOVIE EVAR ACHIEVED 200 GAMERPOINTS

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Oh come on man... I love gore as much as anybody else (probably more) but less gore is not going to make a less fun game.

Case and point: Call of duty 4. Some of the most intense and awesome combat in an FPS in a while, and they had VERY little blood.

Teen rating means more sales. I'm sure it will be awesome.

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I think you guys are missing my point. I'm not saying I'm not buying it or condeming it but take a close look at the game they're actually making. COD4 doesn't have evil mutant things. AND COD 4 was rated M as well. So I guess they have to get rid of that little bit of blood that pops out when you get a head shot which is useful in combat. Its a visual cue. And its awesome. Its just the characters they have in the game shown so far.. I don't see how it won't seem hollow to not be able to splatter those guys.

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I'm in the same boat, Armagon.

It's ids decision, but it still brings a tear to the eye when a dev known for its fucking awesome gorehaus games decides they're gonna try and appeal to a broader audience. IMO, even if your previous successes were gutmulching bloodshitting nastygrams, but they haven't been hitting the same success they used to, it usually lies in the gameplay end of things. Gears of War (albeit with an expensive, and perfectly executed marketing campaign.) managed to rope in a huge audience, many of course under the M level, just because it was a fucking great game. One of the things that made Gears great was the gore. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Best display of visual feedback in a shooter for a long time to come.

If RAGE were nothing but a kart racer, I'd see the purpose behind it, but paff paff smoke squibs coming out of a guy after being shot point blank with a shotty makes Uly cry. : ( Might'a been pushed on them by Activision, who knows, in the end though, it really does seem like a short term solution. From what I gathered from the few screens and trailers we've seen, why the fuck is this T rated anyway? Something just isn't right. Short term solution for short term gains. : ( Whether or not your morally uncomfortable with the issue or not, if your game is great, the ESRB rating means shit to sales. Kids will get their hands on the game one way or the other.

And whether or not you say you care about gore, your brain is still subconciously saying, "that was a sweet kill", or "it looks like I pushed him over with air bullets". : (

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Well put. Thats what I was missing in my reasons was the visual feedback. Its a response to your interaction with these enemies. Its your quick reward for killing that thing to watch it pop. If they can have armor and sparks coming off of what your killing that would be a fine substitute.

But that won't work for everything and why not do what has worked so well in the past and build on it. Gore isn't the game guys. Of course they can do what they want. But you make an FPS with all these elements and then you expect to see it.

Nicely written Uly. I love gore, but I still disagree to an extent.

Slum did you work on Quake 4?

Online petitions are stupid, and this one is no exception. I'm not saying your opinion is stupid; it's a perfectly valid concern (games and movies often suffer when sacrifices are made to get a lower rating), but the decision has been made and a petition isn't going to change anything.

I don't think you should dwell on the "exploding bodies" comment too much. I'm sure it was just a random off-hand remark that didn't actually refer to anything specific they had to take out of the game... probably just the first thing that came to mind when he tried to come up with an example of something that would give the game an "M" rating.

uly - i'm not sure what a "gracious" amount of gore means ... but there was next to no gore in Alien (apart from the one famous scene). It pulled the Texas Chainsaw Massacre trick, of making you believe you'd seen more than you had.

From an enthusiast gamer's point of view, id has lost a lot of its appeal to me starting with Doom 3, has felt behind the times for a while, and I have to say I don't really care about Rage all that much (but I'm hopeful, it's not the same old id stuff). They are a business, and they can't go on forever on their old Doom and Quake legacies, because more and more gamers that grow up go "Doom what? Quake who?", so trying to broaden their market appeal is probably a necessity.

I think gore is overrated an overused anyway. Make things look painful instead by making good use of sound and clever dynamic impact animations.

Honestly, there should be less games using realistic gore as their selling point. I'm excited that id is trying something different than what is expected.

Two thoughts:

1) We don't know enough about the game to say how much we'll miss 'exploding bodies'. DOOM wouldn't be the same without the gore, but since this is a new property that's significantly focused on driving rather than pure FPS combat, maybe we won't miss the gibs and such.

2) If you do want to change the game, it sounds like an excellent reason to make a mod [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Slum did you work on Quake 4?

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No, but I'm working on wolfenstein. On that note, my opinion has nothing to do with the fact I'm working on an id game. Also, I know nothing more about Rage than you guys.

I'm not surprised Rawkstar has stayed out of this thread. heh.

Did you just quote and reply to yourself?

Haha, yes snowfly. I was trying to reply to the post under that one.

This is why I don't post this early.Only bad things happen! XD

Slum is awesome like that.