I was reading the wikipedia entry on samurai, and it says:
"After the matchlock rifle was introduced from Europe, samurai started practicing this weapon. It became the favorite weapon of some samurai for sniping on the battle field as samurai were awarded for every enemy he took down himself..."

So here's a WIP of my young samurai sniper dude. His tanegashima or arquebus is named 'Whisper of the Eagle's Talons'. Just picture the enemy's general suddenly collapsing with a trail of blood spouting from his temple. He travels light, with his gear patterned like the foliage. He carries a fine Italian telescope for sighting in on his quarry, and a manrikigusari for a close-quarter backup weapon.

UPDATED 4.10 --> Not as finished as I'd like, but maybe I can hit it some more tomorrow. More comments below.

UPDATED AGAIN 4.10 --> made adjustments in line with the comments...



/jzero

Go pick up 'Shogun' I think that had guns in it. Plus it has ants and rice...

I've been going over to the art museum at lunchtime to check out their stuff. They have a full suit of 17th century samurai armor, probably not completely ceremonial, as well as some period wall screens that have excellent illustrations of the gear. There's also some amazing Meiji-period bronze sculpture that you have to see to believe. Detail, ohhhh...

/jzero

Very cool character. I like the background you've put into him - always makes it easier to illustrate a character when you know what they do and how they do it...

The legs look a little funky, weird angle or connection to the waist or something ... it's anatomically incorrect and looks like he's falling over to the side.

Apart from that, shaping up nicely! Keep it up!

He looks cool. I'm not familiar with the use of samurai specifically as individual marksmen with firearms, but I never paid much attention to firearm tactics from that period (not beyond Oda Nobunaga's famous firearm unit, actually). Anyway, are you 100% set on including the o-sode pieces on the shoulders? I think they look stylish, but smaller ones would seem more appropriate, and I wonder if they'll dominate the final design as they're of a scale larger than eveything else. Props for tackling an atypical weapon choice, samurai with firearms are pretty iconoclastic.

MoP -- thanks! You were totally right on the anatomy, of course, but I hope I've fixed that. I do pride myself on research -- I pick apart other people's stuff on accuracy, so I figure I better shine on that angle.

Vermilion -- Yes, I was wanting to include the shoulder armor, because I think it would be logical for a sniper to protect his upper body more than his lower. Do you think the updated piece shows an appropriate size? The matchlock in the final here is based on one from the Tokugawa collection, and it looks like it's as long as a Kentucky flintlock from 100 years later. At least five feet. It's true, I can't help but be an iconoclast!

/jzero

Well, as I understand it historically, the rifles more frequently found themselves in the hands of the ashigaru, sort of the footsoldiers of the sengoku jidai period armies. They didn't get nearly as much in the way of armor that a classically outfitted samurai would have. Basically, they got a lighter breastplate set (called a haramaki at that point in time) and basic arm and leg armor - the elaborate shoulder pieces we commonly associate with samurai armor weren't issued to the common soldiers, or at least not often.

Anyway, all that's kind of irrelevant here. Since you've got guns, we're talking 16th century, probably just up to the Edo period. For that time, these sode are still probably a bit larger than the fashion of the day, but I think they look good as they are now. Nice job on the cord ties, I can tell you researched how that looks. I can't tell you for certain if there was much/any armor worn back then that didn't have the skirted thight plates attached to it - that strikes me as being rather unusual abotu yours, but I think it gives the character a more agile and mobile look that seems appropriate for a tactical battlefield sniper.

The only crits I'd make this point are somewhat technical: the armored sleeves a samurai wore would have covered his entire arm and tied across the chest or shoulder, rather than stopping at the elbow. Tucking them in like that seems very odd. Also, while the geta sandals do look cool and I can think of at least one anime character who fights in them, no samurai in his right mind would wear them into battle [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Oh, and one last uber samurai nerd point - his sword is upside down and on the wrong side. A wakizashi is worn blade up and all samurai always wore their swords on the left hip, no exceptions.

Damn, that's a cool piece of concept art there. If the next stage of these contests is modelling, were you planning to do that? Or is there an opening for me there? I muuuch prefer this guy over the concept I drew [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Verm -- Thanks for your technical consultation. I am working off that one line from Wikipedia that I mention up top, that says there were samurai snipers. I am always on the lookout for strange suggestive lines like that!

The sword, yes! Can't have that out of line. Last night it was late and I was thinking I wouldn't be home today, but that changed. So I can't deny this guy his daisho, right?

I went ahead and added the hip-plates, because they seemed logical. You should see the examples I saw at the art museum, they are amazing Meijii-period bronze, intricately and completely detailed. But both guys have the hip-guards, so it seems logical. I thought that the geta would be useful in the mud at the back of the field of battle, but you are probably right. Samurai Jack notwithstanding! (did you see the whole episode just about his geta?)

MoP -- Dude! You are welcome to model this guy if you want, and I would be more than flattered. I was talking with Bronco about it, but just as he said he'd like to do his own thing, I saw your post. I was planning a model sheet, are you interested in that? Favored over yours? Be my guest!

Thanks!

/jzero

A model sheet would kick ass. I could work straight from that concept, but a model sheet is always handy, and if you were gonna do one anyway, I recommend you continue!

nice drawing man, did you do this from a scan and then do vector art? preeze exprain, thx

Excellent lineart jzero, extremely clean!

I almost thought of doing a samurai gunner myself, but I'm glad I didn't because yours is much better than what I would have come up with!

Hey jzero great concept.
jzero, MoP if you are still looking for someone to do the texture I would like to give it a try, if you think I am good enough [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Well, I kinda wanted to texture it myself (if it comes to that, and if jzero agrees), but that really depends on how much free time I have. I'll get back to you on that...

How are those model sheets coming along, jzero? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

steady : Thanks, it is drawn 100% in Photoshop with my lovely Intuos 6x8. I did a bunch of studies in pencil beforehand, just sloppy stuff that helped me flesh out the details. I also sketched at the museum, as mentioned. So by the time I sat down, I had a clear idea of what I wanted to make. I will admit to tracing Takeshi Kaneshiro's face from some 'Flying Daggers' stills, but that was just to get started. I usually will pick a celebrity to base my characters' faces on, just so I have a real-world basis for their features. I see that as 'casting' of a sort. As it usually works out, I work on the faces a bunch on my own, so they only bear a passing resemblance to the original. I use whatever other reference is available for things like stances and hand positions, and that always makes it turn out about 200% better than it would otherwise.

But yeah, this is black and white pixels at about 150 dpi on the originals. Clean, j4polaris? Yes, thank you, and you should see the godawful mess of lines that it begins as. Whole layers of them. And I'd be dead without undo. As would many of us.

Badname, I don't want to say I don't think you're up to texturing this mothah, but there is going to be an awful lot if you follow my suggestions. When I look at your site I see lots of faces and firearms, but I don't know if you're ready to do textures like this:



Okay, that's supposed to scare you! Not THAT complicated. But do consider it. I'll leave it up to you, and MoP.

I am going to do a color version of the concept sketch also, to show my ideas for what the texture should look like. My idea is that this guy is a pioneer of camouflaged snipers, and his armor and clothing would be patterned to make him blend in to the landscape. Still decorative, though.

The model sheets are under way. Got a lot done yesterday thanks to child illness! Not usually a positive thing, but... ran out of steam at the end of the day, but I should get it finished tonight. MoP, there are rear-side details you will appreciate learning about when you get 'em.

Thanks to all for the good vibes, it's done wonders for my ego.

/jzero

All right, here he is. Tons of mirroring here, and I only got the weapons on the front view before I tapped out. But maybe MoP can get some modeling in. Sorry to be late, man, but I didn't expect to get even this far!

Link to full-size version, 438Kb



Crits welcome on what I may have done poorly here, what not so poorly. I wouldn't call it completely finished, but maybe it'll do.

/jzero

Should be pleasure to model from, great, clean concept and no problems with differing looks in the different views. First I thought that the knee couldn't go that far back but I've tried it myself and my leg seems to take on the same form as the guys' in your concept.

Looks great, dude, I'll get started! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks, guys. I'm actually dissatisfied with the way his midsection looks on the model sheet, from the front view. I couldn't quite see where I went wrong, but I would prefer he look like the concept. The concept shows him looking fairly trim, but with a good weight at the waistline from the armor and whatever clothing is gathered at that point. MoP, if you don't quite grok all of the details, let me know and I can provide some pictorial reference.

Thanks for making use of my scrawlings!

/jzero

Yeah, the midsection is a little off on the sheet, the front and side views don't match up - the belt line is pretty different in the side from the front. It's not a problem though, I'm just using the sheets as a basis for his general mass and proportions, then gonna detail the mesh based on your original concept.
I'll get in touch if I can't figure out some parts, but you seem to have depicted it very clearly, so it should be smooth going... I'll try to get some WIP shots up tonight. The mesh shouldn't take too long... but damn, I haven't done any character modelling in a while! This is fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

hehe,great stuff Jman.

Good luck Mopper ill be watching you 2.

john

ahh, jealous of drawing skills...
thats cool, until yesterday @ teh library i idn't know samurais used guns

Well, it's slow going. But I'm getting there...
Figured I'd left you all hanging long enough to post some evidence that I was actually doing something!



He's way over budget at the moment, currently sitting at 4200 tris, and I haven't even made the hands, shoulderpads or items yet. I wasn't really paying attention to polygon count when modelling, so there's plenty of areas I can chop down later.

Still all mirrored at the moment... I should be done with the mesh in a day or two, workload allowing.

MoP

Wow MoP, a very impressive model.

You were smart to ignore the limit when building the initial mesh, as you focus more on getting all the details done. After it's all finished, you can go back and chop things down.

... I definately need to develop that kind of workflow a little more. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

oh my god that rox _O_
It's nice to see how you did some things were i had some problems with.