Do you all believe its natural that idealism is lost as one gets older? Or alternatively that its easier to loose or excuse it in the face of societal obstuctions?

I keep thinking of all those people that say that loosing idealism amd becoming more centric and conservative is a natural part of learning how the world is(IE powerless individual). Yet, in a brief example. Someone like Jimmy Carter (outside how you feel he was as president), still is active in trying to make a difference in his late years.

Is this a fork we all must choose in life? When we make this choice, do we recognize those that choose not to give up on their ideals? From what I have encountered, those that overly compromised, have a harder time recognizing peers that haven't. This denial seems to increase exponentially the more one has "accepted" a status quo.

This is of course IMOHO. So what is your experiences and thoughts in this?

I think that becoming more centric and conservative is a natural path but that probably happens more to people with certain responsibilities like children, certain carreer, house mortgage etc.
I don't think it has to do with your gaining knowledge about "how the world is (IE powerless individual)". More to do with need for stability and security which often reflects in the change of your (political) opinions and ideas.

Besides that when you get older you (hopefully) become more wise and might see that the ideals that you had when you were lets say 20 aren't really practical or feasible in real life [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Well, again. How would this explain someone like Jimmy Carter (or better yet Edward Asner? I believe both had children and similiar responsibilities.

Ofcourse it doesn't apply to everybody [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] When I look at people around me of my age or parents of my peers that grew up in the "hippy age" it is the case that sure is the case that idealism was somehow changed or lost along the way due to certain responsibilities, different views on the world gained by age/wisdom or changing goals in life.

I am at a loss though how you say gaining wisdom or responsibility equates loss of idealism.

Am I misunderstanding your meaning? If not, could I question. Is that what we want to believe for that loss? (For those that have lost it)

I believe it is true, generally. If you get hit on the nose by life enough times, you start to turn your head and duck. I have a low opinion of Carter, and an even lower opinion of asner, as I see him as two steps away from being a Communist.

But then in My case, I never was "Idealistic" and was always practical, and then Conservative.

Scott

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But then in My case, I never was "Idealistic" and was always practical, and then Conservative.
Scott

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ditto. never went through that utopian, idyllic stage myself.

and Scott, I don't personally believe there are two steps between Asner and Communist.

I actually went from conservative when I was younger to liberal as I got older. I grew up in a small town and then went into the military. Once I was out of the military I began to realize that fat cat Republicans who have never worked a day in thier lives really have nothing in common with me, nor do they know what it is like to walk a mile in my shoes. You could argue that wealthy democrats don't either, but at least they appear to be compassionate and sympathetic to the underclasses.

Although, I really wouldn't consider myself to be "idealistic" either.

Dammit AZ a few hours ago you nominated me for President!

yea Duke, but you're what I consider to be a RICO (Republican in Name Only) [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Ha ha! You will come around too my way of thinking once I officially appoint you as the chairman of the weekly "TIT BAR EXCURSIONS AND WHOREMONGERING EXPEDITIONS WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE"

It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

OMG, Duke. How do you know me so well?

I accept your appointment as I feel that I am the best man for the job. Ask not what your country can do for you...

Hmm, so maybe the key is environment and fortitude? Like if You are in a certain environment too long, and dont continually reaffirm your mindset and beliefs. You fall into that cultures ideals?

(Please note idealism works from the right also - How do you explain all the ex Randites?).

Just had this great thought by Monk
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<Monk> I think you have idealism and optimism/naivity mixed up.
<Monk> People become more cynical with age because they become less optimistic and less naive, I believe.
<Monk> You can be idealisty your entire life but few people will KNOW if you are unless you have the public eye or really work at it.
<Monk> And those people are the ones like Carter who work for peace or even Castro who stuck with his ideals and now has a country with something like a 99% literacy rate.
<Monk> You could even say that Hitler was idealistic and followed his ideals to the bitter end.
<Monk> It's the loss of optimism that I see leading towards cynicism. You can be idealistic but also cynical and pessimistic.
<Monk> i.e. you've worked at trying to change the world and still WANT to but perhaps you've seen how "the system" works and no longer have as many viable avenues to try--though you do what you can.
<Monk> My thoughts, at least.
<Monk> I'm too lazy to log in the forms.
<Monk> And the forums, too.


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Also great idea of my reference at bottom of this page(the poem by Ken Nordine) http://www.pipeline.com/~dada3zen/HOW.htm

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yea Duke, but you're what I consider to be a RICO (Republican in Name Only) [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Hehehe... Hey, Duke, is there still an opening for Chairman of the Misspelled Acronyms Committee? (sorry, AZ! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

Yes Verm there are still openings at COTMAC. They just are not as attractive as the postions at TBEAWEWAM. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I grew up around the most cynical contemptible obsessive compulsive a'holes you could ever meet.....and they were young.

I don't believe you're idealistic when you're young, I believe you are competitive when you're young. I believe when you're young you are always trying to out do one another, and smit victory in your competitiion....hence, a'hole.

I'm not certain being young equates to idealistic?

Idealistic usually equates to equality fairness patience and consideration....and those were traits that were sorely lacking in the people I grew up around.

Those are traits I seek, therefore I become more idealistic as I get older.

I don't know Oxy, I suppose Idealism is prevailent in many young people, like I was. Now younger adults around me don't give squat about much ideas or being idealistic. Some people go from being a Democrat to a Conservative as you get older. I guess it happened to me since I am still a registered, invalid reg. Democrat. I was very idealistic and thought if people were given the same chances they would succeed just like fortunate and rich did. Now that I am older I don't think this way anymore. I am pretty cynical and really have a hard time taking crap from anyone. Maybe now I am the ahole, but I used to take crap off anyone and just eat it, now I do not.

I am with Scott R. on Carter though, he is really a humanitarian doing great things, but he should never have been a President. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

The only thing about Ed is I hope I don't grow that much hair on my back too!

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yea Duke, but you're what I consider to be a RICO (Republican in Name Only) [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Hehehe... Hey, Duke, is there still an opening for Chairman of the Misspelled Acronyms Committee? (sorry, AZ! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

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doh! yea, I meant "RINO." RICO is something completely different.

So can I be chairman for both TBEAWEZAMC AND COMATX?

When I was young, the imperfection and corruption of this world was not a concern. But naturally I tried to excel and accomplish more than expected, or deviate completely. I developed a realization that I could make a difference in my world. My imagination has led me to some wonderful places, and I see the benefit of a life of excellence and creativity. After completing a high school education, the "real world" smacks you in the face. I've struggled defiantly to avoid being assimilated into a society of comformity. I never listen when told "this is how it is". I believe many improvements are necessary, with economic and social stability of little concern when the act of change can acheive long term compensation for all. Deeply I feel we are not bound by traditions. In this world of growth and advancement, new traditions need to be established, with the outdated sent to the historical archives. I hope I can keep these thoughts within me even as I age. We're all on this planet for many years. There is plenty of time to make an influence. Generosity and an open mind has its rewards. I expect to influence many in my days, and leave my name behind...rather than conform to a system that enslaves me. Liberal for life, baby! I don't see myself as a coward, or helpless. I'll be running and causing choas past my 90's. My grandchildren will thank me. Greed and traditions have done nothing but cause conflict and entropy. We need to open the door to our future, instead of imprisoning ourselves in the past. Honestly, I feel that the world needs to learn to adapt, or follow the dinosaurs. I'm sure many maintain the goal of becoming wealthy and retiring. No one remembers the wealthy. And retirement is a one way path to an early death. I will not use that system as my safety net in life.

I guess maybe there should be a clearer definition of what "young" means. I firmly believe that probably 99% of people's political beliefs aren't their own, but their parent's until they reach their late teens - early 20s.

The majority of my family is conservative. My maternal grandfather, however, was a liberal democrat until the day he died.

Grindy - U da man.
As I believe I am the oldest here......IMHO Idealism for me has faded over the years with realism taking it's place. I still try to have a positive influence within my event horizon. I think that's the best that anyone can do. The question is what it means to each individual and what are you prepared to give....time?...cash? your entire life? For me, I donate what I can...if I was "Oprah" rich I'd donate a shitload just like she does. My world scope is much smaller as I make just enuff of a humble living to survive comfortably. There are those of us with way too much and some with way too little. THEY should get together. I still luv my fellow man and care which way the world turns but I can only do so much......for now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ok but when does that second change happen Astro? You know, when the cynicism kicks in.