You can Chamfer/Bevel edges to smooth them if a Normal map isn't sufficient enough or if there's a hard edge there that is bevelled in that manner. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with your process - however it can be unnecessary if it's something that a Normal map can solve.
No. It's generally (almost always) best to have hard edges at UV seams. But if you spend more geo (perhaps through a bevel, whcih also looks better & might better match the highpoly) you can have a larger uv island (easier to pack and texture) for little cost (because if it were split then the uv seams would mean more split verts anyway).
If you're using a perfectly synched workflow you might be able to have larger uv islands with harsh shading (so not spending any more geo), but you'd still want hard edges at uv seams and I'm not sure how forgiving compression would be to your normal map. I imagine it would play worse with long thin tris, which should be avoided anyway, and mipmaps though.
I'm not expert, but what I follow: no small bevels on low poly. generally put uv seams on sharp edges, then mark those edges hard. Leave every other sharp edges smooth (causes gradient, so if it causes problems every sharp edge should be marked as hard and then put a uv seam on them). If the uv seam is on a non sharp edge then no need to mark that edge hard/make it into different smoothing group.
so let me see if i understand this; i dont bevel at all even if the model is supposed to be rounded object? I also need to make a high poly version of the model, in that case i should bevel.
What does larger uv island mean in this context? Wouldnt beveling making texturing harder to do since the object is more complicated?
What is meant by marking UV seams to make them smooth/hard and how do normal maps better achieve this?
Doesnt UE4 handle lots of polygons anyway? Can i just bevel now and go for a high poly/midpoly and if it impacts the game I find, I go back and turn it into low poly?
To me its easier to know if the model looks right once i bevel it and get a good feel of it so thats generally why I do it, but if its less work for me by focusing on achieving this through normals then better that then. The guide I had above https://i.imgur.com/njOhECU.jpg mentions i need to make my bevels wider than real life for it to be recognized in the game, do i need to keep that in mind?
Imagine just a simple cube, as in that tech artist article. If you don't bevel and split each side of the cube into its own uv island (so it would have hard edges/decent smoothing) you'd have more uv seams, which are harder to texture across. So if you bevel, you are spending more geo (but, not much, because you save geo by not having uv seams/hard edges) but also getting a better looking lowpoly and bigger, easier to texture uv islands.
Read this thread, it's gold. It explains a similar concept to that tech artist link but goes into more detail and is a better overall explanation.
Not really. Especially not if you're talking about editing textured models. If you change uv's or model you'd have to rebake your normal map and most likely redo the texture.
Yes. Bigger bevels (or wider, smoother edges) read better from a distance. Realistic and tiny bevels will usually alias and look not so great.
alright, so if i want a cube. I create a cube with no bevel. Have the sides of the cube be its own uv island in the uv window. All hard edges normals since its non-organic. If i get a normal map out of that, through maya's tool, it will look smooth on the sides as though it was beveled (when not baked from high poly)? Its actually pretty confusing, im reading that i should never touch the bevel tool and only rely on edge loops.
but what if the cube to resemble a pillow, which is much smoother shape. I still have each side be its UV island?
i checked the thread, its nice but the video got me scratching my head. hes using terminology i dont fully understand. UV splits, padding, smoothing split etc. still got a lot to learn.
heres a test image with a cube. baked with UV islands and all hard edges:
Now when i add edge loops to the side (no bevel) so i can smooth the cube to give it a realistic cube look:
and just searching around found this, you can see why i find this confusing:
The low poly's contour should be as close as to the high poly's as possible. So if the high poly's shape changes too much from the smoothing then you should round the low poly with bevels. If the shape doesn't change too much then it's generally better to not bevel the low poly. Also read about cages, without it you will get baking errors often. (btw bevel is mostly usefull creatint the high poly when you want to strenghten its edges before smoothing)
ya lets say i have a cube and when smoothed it turns into a ball. Even if i apply normals and all that, when smoothed it will turn into a ball. So I should definitly apply bevels and edge loops to keep the shape when its smoothed? All the beveling i do is to mainly maintain the shape of low poly.
i kinda fear beveling, because its destructive, i got a model where i beveled parts of its edges and now i feel i cant do anything about it.
You shouldn't be modifying the topology of your model after baking your normal map. It disrupts the math involved in calculating the direction light will reflect off your surface in accordance with the vertex normals. This is evident in your last image where you have black seams along your cube's edges.
If you want your model to have a realistic cube look, make your high poly look that way, then bake your normal map.
Beveling is fine if you are doing it for a reason that helps achieve a better result in some way, whether it be fewer UV shells, conforming more to your high poly, or if you really need a smooth corner that your normal map can't achieve, or because you aren't using a normal map.
You might be over-thinking the concept right now. If you are still generally new to normal mapping or optimizing game-resolution models, I would suggest just completing more normal mapped, game-ready assets. If you think a surface needs to be beveled, then bevel it. It's one of those things that you can read up on all day but won't be able to effectively employ until you have enough experience to understand when to do it and how much, and when not to do it.
i checked the thread, its nice but the video got me scratching my head. hes using terminology i dont fully understand. UV splits, padding, smoothing split etc. still got a lot to learn.
For your reference:
UV Splits: A UV seam, which is a border edge of a UV shell that has been disconnected from the polygon on the other "side" of that edge.
Padding: Software-generated pixel bleeding. Basically it takes the outer-most information of each UV shell and extends that information outward. This helps with mipmapping (blurring that occurs when the engine reduces the size of the texture map based on view distance)
Smoothing splits: A 3ds Max term for hard/soft edge normals. A hard edge would be considered a smoothing split. If you have a smoothing split, you must also split your UVs. This was explained in the thread linked by Bek in post #8.
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ya lets say i have a cube and when smoothed it turns into a ball. Even if i apply normals and all that, when smoothed it will turn into a ball. So I should definitly apply bevels and edge loops to keep the shape when its smoothed? All the beveling i do is to mainly maintain the shape.
The smooth preview (3 key) has nothing to do with your final game-resolution model. That is the equivalent of adding a Mesh > Smooth operation with 2 divisions. You are essentially viewing a high-poly subdivision preview. If you want the cube to retain its shape then yes, add support loops; however, you should be doing this in conjunction with the smooth preview with the idea that the mesh you are manipulating in this way is your high poly, not your low poly.
[double edit]
The reference image you found above with the cubes illustrates the visual outcomes of baking normals with various UV setups. The first one after the high poly cube is the correct way, all the others are wrong, and you can visually see that they are wrong.
i have a lot to digest, its very complicated. Since im focused on doing low poly right now, i should probably not use bevel i take it? That its smooth preview is not important? I ask because i have a curved shaped model with no normal map, that should look good when smoothed, taking it to the engine has it not smoothed though.
The terminology confused me, as i never used max, just maya. so when I hear smoothing groups, i imagine its got to do with normals. That spliting smoothing group means softening the normals i guess. As for beveling, i only use it to maintain shape and to give me an edge that looks good in the engine without putting effort in making a normal map. By the sounds of it, i shouldnt be using it at all at this stage. but for the models i already beveled, do i go back and delete these edges or i just go ahead and try to do the UV island thing with them?
There is no definitive answer to your question. Sometimes you bevel edges, and sometimes you don't. Use the tools you have at your disposal to get the shapes and contours you need. There are a lot of factors to consider, many of which are based on experience.
You seem to have some notion that the smooth preview is somehow linked to how the models you will be exporting to the engine. It's not. They are completely separate things. The mesh you see as it is in the standard, non-smoothed view is what you will get in the engine. The smooth preview is what you would get if you subdivided your model, thus making it what many would consider a high poly type of mesh.
Splitting an edge either means to cut a UV seam or make it a hard edge. It depends on the context.
I think you should just make the asset you're looking to make, then determine if portions need to be beveled while you are working on it. At the end of the day, a few beveled edges are not going to kill Unreal. Engines are pretty good at pushing polygons around nowadays, and as long as you aren't senselessly beveling everything, your models will be just fine for the most part.
Replies
So it's better to keep all edge normals smooth, and then harden them with normal maps?
If you're using a perfectly synched workflow you might be able to have larger uv islands with harsh shading (so not spending any more geo), but you'd still want hard edges at uv seams and I'm not sure how forgiving compression would be to your normal map. I imagine it would play worse with long thin tris, which should be avoided anyway, and mipmaps though.
i checked the thread, its nice but the video got me scratching my head. hes using terminology i dont fully understand. UV splits, padding, smoothing split etc. still got a lot to learn.
heres a test image with a cube. baked with UV islands and all hard edges:
Now when i add edge loops to the side (no bevel) so i can smooth the cube to give it a realistic cube look:
and just searching around found this, you can see why i find this confusing:
i kinda fear beveling, because its destructive, i got a model where i beveled parts of its edges and now i feel i cant do anything about it.
If you want your model to have a realistic cube look, make your high poly look that way, then bake your normal map.
Beveling is fine if you are doing it for a reason that helps achieve a better result in some way, whether it be fewer UV shells, conforming more to your high poly, or if you really need a smooth corner that your normal map can't achieve, or because you aren't using a normal map.
You might be over-thinking the concept right now. If you are still generally new to normal mapping or optimizing game-resolution models, I would suggest just completing more normal mapped, game-ready assets. If you think a surface needs to be beveled, then bevel it. It's one of those things that you can read up on all day but won't be able to effectively employ until you have enough experience to understand when to do it and how much, and when not to do it.
For your reference:
UV Splits: A UV seam, which is a border edge of a UV shell that has been disconnected from the polygon on the other "side" of that edge.
Padding: Software-generated pixel bleeding. Basically it takes the outer-most information of each UV shell and extends that information outward. This helps with mipmapping (blurring that occurs when the engine reduces the size of the texture map based on view distance)
Smoothing splits: A 3ds Max term for hard/soft edge normals. A hard edge would be considered a smoothing split. If you have a smoothing split, you must also split your UVs. This was explained in the thread linked by Bek in post #8.
[edit]
The smooth preview (3 key) has nothing to do with your final game-resolution model. That is the equivalent of adding a Mesh > Smooth operation with 2 divisions. You are essentially viewing a high-poly subdivision preview. If you want the cube to retain its shape then yes, add support loops; however, you should be doing this in conjunction with the smooth preview with the idea that the mesh you are manipulating in this way is your high poly, not your low poly.
[double edit]
The reference image you found above with the cubes illustrates the visual outcomes of baking normals with various UV setups. The first one after the high poly cube is the correct way, all the others are wrong, and you can visually see that they are wrong.
You seem to have some notion that the smooth preview is somehow linked to how the models you will be exporting to the engine. It's not. They are completely separate things. The mesh you see as it is in the standard, non-smoothed view is what you will get in the engine. The smooth preview is what you would get if you subdivided your model, thus making it what many would consider a high poly type of mesh.
Splitting an edge either means to cut a UV seam or make it a hard edge. It depends on the context.
I think you should just make the asset you're looking to make, then determine if portions need to be beveled while you are working on it. At the end of the day, a few beveled edges are not going to kill Unreal. Engines are pretty good at pushing polygons around nowadays, and as long as you aren't senselessly beveling everything, your models will be just fine for the most part.