How to Handle Active Discouragement
Hello fellow Polycounters! I come to you today in search of guidance and support. I'm sure my problem is not unique and I'd like to hear whether any of you all have had similar experiences.
I've been working freelance for the past four years while putting myself financially through school. Now a graduate, for the past few months, I've been putting in dozens of applications to various studios all across the US with the hopes of a more permanent position.
My question is: how have you all handled discouragement from friends and family? I've been told I'm naive, hopelessly optimistic, and that I should focus on a more realistic career, rather than the concept design and illustration I do now.
Hearing from those who have segued into the industry, I'd like to hear how you managed this discouragement emotionally and how you kept yourself motivated to keep creating and ultimately finding your career.
For background, I am a concept design artist and illustrator with a primary focus on environments. Here is my website, if you would like to take a look:
http://www.davidloebman.com
Thanks so much for taking the time to read over this post! Your advice and personal experiences mean a lot.
I've been working freelance for the past four years while putting myself financially through school. Now a graduate, for the past few months, I've been putting in dozens of applications to various studios all across the US with the hopes of a more permanent position.
My question is: how have you all handled discouragement from friends and family? I've been told I'm naive, hopelessly optimistic, and that I should focus on a more realistic career, rather than the concept design and illustration I do now.
Hearing from those who have segued into the industry, I'd like to hear how you managed this discouragement emotionally and how you kept yourself motivated to keep creating and ultimately finding your career.
For background, I am a concept design artist and illustrator with a primary focus on environments. Here is my website, if you would like to take a look:
http://www.davidloebman.com
Thanks so much for taking the time to read over this post! Your advice and personal experiences mean a lot.
Replies
However I cannot help you much here im sorry.
That's been my mentality for awhile now and I'm sure they're frustrated with it, hahaha. I know they want what's 'safe' for me, but I don't know if they want what's 'best' for me.
Thanks so much, I'm glad you think so! Here's hoping a recruiter thinks likewise. :P
Also as a side note if you want you portfolio to improve a lot do some more anatomy studies and practice your material definition skills a bit.
(Effort != Skill) + Portfolio + networking = Job
You put time into illustrative/concept work and network on places such as here and you may well get the job you're looking for.
Everyone else telling you, you can't do something can sit on it as far as i'm concerned
Perhaps educate your friends and family to the artists and illustrators that you admire that have made it as a career and say this is where I want to be, let them know you are ambitious and have aspirations.
I'm constantly getting shit from my Mom, aunt, uncles, my best friends family too and even old friends of the family about how I need to waist a few years in collage until i can figure out what I want to do with my life even though Ive told them what I want to do they don't consider that a real or good career choice and try and tell me what I need to do with my life.
Every time they say "You're good with computers why not go to college for repairing computers or helping people over the phone that would pay a lot" And my response every time is "But thats not fun. Jobs like those pay good and are probably secure but they're boring as hell Whats a life worth living if you aren't enjoying it doing what you love.
Then they get pretty angry and we argue.
I was lucky enough to have some supportive like minded friends without them id have considered giving up.
You've got good art, I'm sure you'll find something soon.:)
Also they're not great friends if they don't support what you're passionate about.
I grew up drawing constantly. dropped out of highschool because i would rather draw than finish my classes. never found work for it. apprenticed at a tattoo shop for a while, did a little bit of freelance illustration and graphic design work but nothing substantial enough to live on. By the time i was 22 i was married, had a kid and was DEEP into a string of shit jobs. jobs that i would sit and draw at every chance i got.
i had pretty much given up on an art career. My mother was an artist who gave up her passion to get a regular stable job as a nurse so she could feed her kids. she also had little concept of what kind of opportunities were available for a commercial artist in today's job market. She wanted me to go into medecine. She knew me as an artist but the same fear that pushed her into her current field was getting projected onto my own future.
In the end it was my wife who pushed me into it. Its easy to say "ignore them" but it's a lot harder to do. Having just one person who supports what you're doing is a massive help. Without my wife I probably would have given up - joined the military or been an EMT or something. But i didn't. I took the risk made the plunge. In the end i was sending out 20-60 applications a month for nearly a year before i got a job. NETWORK! knowing somebody is the best way to get that art test or interview. Job fairs, GDC, Polycount. Be visible and be working. eventually you WILL get a job if you stick to it.
TL;DR:
don't ignore discouragement - understand what it is. Most of them are just afraid for you because chasing your dreams is risky. But the risk is YOURS to take. and if you don't take it you will probably regret it for the rest of your life.
if you can find just one voice that is positive cling to that person like yoda on luke's back.
It's only risky if you give up or don't try. If you're working, getting better and meeting connected people you WILL get in. It may take 2 or 3 years, but it will happen.
http://www.tedorland.com/artandfear/
Best of luck!
YES! Glad to see someone else recommend that book. I've posted it all over the place. Really a great book on being an artist and making it a career.
I recently attended a smaller convention in Richmond and have plans to travel to GenCon and IlluxCon to network and meet other artists. I'll need to figure out finances for the hotel, gas, and venue fees soon.
I'm still searching for that one voice of support, but you all have brought me yours! It's truly invaluable, I'll keep working at my dream, attending model sessions and workshops, and posting my work for others to see. I'll be sure to check back at this thread whenever I feel my heart begin to sink.
Again, thank you all so much - my chest got tighter reading all of your stories and comments.
One thing I know, is that people and friends influence each other. And influence you too. I have most friends I've made in person on Facebook where I have many artist friends who do the things I do. I post up WIP and nice Renders and I get comments and critiques from artist friends and non-artist friends. I think they slowly fuse together and in the end everyone knows what I want to do. This includes friends from my ballroom place, from Macy's, from high school(they don't know what the heck I actually do, just that the images I post look cool to them. xD ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvtxOzO6OAE
and they are afraid you will surpass them. discouragement to me is good, it means your breaking away from the group think...you got this dude,
how bad do you want it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTFnmsCnr6g
I'd suggest avoiding the conversations about your future career with the people that discourage you. Change the topic or shrug things off before people can actively start giving their opinion. That's all it is in the end; a biased opinion that isn't worth much. Unless they've had actual experience with commercial art, value their opinions like you'd value the headlines on a Tabloid, and hopefully the discouragement won't get to you as much. That's my current method of dealing with things and it's working pretty well.
I, as well as everybody here, think your stuff is baller!
traditional oils, never seen that before! very well done!
you mentioned that you have a primary focus on environments, but I can only see one building and two enviroment pieces
(not that any of it is bad, I just feel it goes against what you say is your focus)
You`ll find out pretty quickly who was actually concerned for your well-being and who just wanted you to fail because they were too scared to chase their own dreams down.
There are those whom i love that i can no longer count among my friends because they cant mask their bitterness.
My Brother-in-law and i have been friends since highschool. He went to a film school and gave up after he didn't find a job 6 months after school. I told him to keep working. I told him to make youtube vids and pick up photography gigs. I offered to watch his kids in the evenings so he could have some time to work unmolested. But he gave up. Now hes a maintenance man at a youth camp with a massive student loan debt. And he resents me for it.
Pretty much every single person who implied I couldn't do it...do not work in a field they enjoy or that is their passion. Sour grapes from failed or abandoned dreams.
Keep at it. While I will say, you should get a "regular" job to pay the bills in the mean time, dont give up on your practice. As others have said, you've got a little ways to go before you're quite up to par, but not as far as the naysayers would have you believe.
I'll be the Devil's advocate...
Reading between the lines, you've been doing freelance for years and going to school. Did you live at home that entire time and live off your parents, or did you pay all of your own bills and rent? Do you have a girlfriend who has supported you for years while you did freelance? Does freelance mean you made $100 a month or $5,000 a month?
If you've been supported for years by other people they eventually want to see you fly out of the nest. They may stop being nice about it if they see you aren't trying to support yourself. Four years is a long time.
Most people don't have the luxury of sitting at home and practicing their art. They have to go to jobs they don't enjoy or they will lose their house, car and possessions. Do you depend on them to provide shelter and food? It's normal for them to feel resentment if they think you are mooching off them.
If you haven't been borrowing from these people, then you can ignore their opinions. Art is definitely a viable career, and you have some real skills, so there is a real future in it for you.
Thanks for the link, will check this out too.
But on the other hand - not everyone sais it loud - but the most of them
have a huge respect, that you follow your dreams and dont go with xy - iam on the save side and boring job.
Stay healthy - be happy and then you will be automatically surrounded by success and people who admire you.
That's one big part of it. Realize that unless the person talking has some sort of tangible experience or knowledge on the matter they don't have much to say. Also realize that even if you do what they want they'll still be giving you bullshit advice so don't take it so hard.
But... think about the negative feedback you get, because there are real fears behind it. People close to you care (hopefully) enough to express their fears, even if they do it like dicks. Those fears might hide legitimate concerns about your future that you should take seriously.
During all this, my family was supportive...at first. They wanted me to succeed because it was my career goal but also because I had massive student loans. As time went by and I was stuck working retail jobs to pay bills, they became less and less supportive. They started to wonder if I was going to go back to school and try for a different career. I went 7 years between school and getting my career. They were within their right to worry, as frustrating as it was for me at the time. When I finally got the job, all the criticism dried up. Keep pushing at it and work your ass off.
I'm actually quite proud of how I've managed my time and finances thus far. While at school, I worked two part-time jobs (three at one point!) and full-time over the Summer and Holidays. I applied to scholarships, studied hard, and spent my nights and weekends working on digital art and design, since my school didn't have a dedicated program. I even held a weekly 'class' to teach my classmates how to use Photoshop!
As of now, I have some amount of money saved up from work to support myself for a few months to pay for rent and student loans. I'll likely need to start looking into part-time jobs soon if I don't hear anything. I'm sure that will alleviate some degree of my family's worry. I'm just nervous how it will impact how much I am able to creatively produce and improve. Though, I suppose it is a life-long quest after all.
Thank you all again for your time and feedback I'll be sure to keep giving it my very best!
good on ya! i was just about to comment on the devil's advocate position along these same lines. If i can go to school and hold down a full time job with a wife and 2 kids and still get the art done while fighting off the urge to sit on my arse and play video games ANYBODY can pull it off.
Get any job that will pay you. get a roommate and a cheap crappy apartment if you have to. There are always enough hours in the day if you just accept that this is what you'll do with any bit of free time you can find.
having to bills is no reason to give up on your dreams. unless you're working 20 hours a day 7 days a week there's always time.
This...
When yer rolling in it,
b real petty with it!
I don't think this is really the case. If you haven't been able to support yourself doing X then they're just giving you practical advice based on what they know. For most people that is not grinding at a niche skill until you are good enough to be employed.
In my experience parents and extended family will stop to nag after you are earning enough money to support a family, have found a husband or wife and grandchildren are underway. And some simply never stop.
That's awesome, sounds like you're really driven and have a great attitude - I have no doubt you'll go far
I think it's more that non-artists have a very negative perception of artists, and think we're all psycho working odd-jobs.
thanks for the image and this thread, i share the same thought as @DLDigital
I continue to paint, develop, and learn new software whenever time allows, though I worry my timeframe for work is rapidly diminishing. New graduates will soon hit the market and the formal work experience I have to my name since then amounts to little interest to an art director. Perhaps I'm too naive to think I could break in with an art degree, experience in private commissions, independent projects, and contest recognition. As I understand, most companies prefer those with work experience in a professional setting and various specialized software masteries before even considering taking on a new artist. My worry is, as I develop experience and skills in an unrelated field (sales or otherwise), I become less relevant to a company's artist search. It's an ongoing worry, so I spend as much time as I am able better honing my skills and relevancy on new software, despite a frustrating year and hundreds upon hundreds of rejections.
I don't mean to sound entitled, I put my face to the grind-stone every day to make this work out. I've work(ed) three part-time jobs since this original posting and relocated in order to make ends meet while still looking for creative work. I'm just not seeing any real return on my time investment and it's heart-breaking. Do I drop everything, move to CA, WA, or TX, and live in my car as a QA tester so I can just get my face in front of somebody? No offense to any QA testers out there, hahah. I suppose I'm just feeling desperate at this point. I've been presented with an opportunity to work as a traveling auto-parts salesman, 70% travel, low pay, and little to no benefits.
I don't know how to handle this situation, so I come to you all for guidance. Thank you all so much for reading this wall of text and taking the time to respond, it really means more than I can say.
I feel like this has more to do with your 'folio than it does your qualifications, man. Contest experience, small hobbyist projects, indie projects, personal IPs and whatever are more than enough, you don't need like 9 AAA projects on your resume to get hired. It's more about the art...
Which, unfortunately, does need to look AAA level before one of those studios even considers you.
And I hate to say it, but you have a lot of dud pieces on your portfolio right now. Some just seem really old (dude, 2012?), some have sort of dodgy designs (sorry). Not to mention having so many subsections but defaulting to one of them really hurts you-- I've visited your folio a few times now and only just realized you have a concept art tab. So yeah, I hate to say it but I doubt it's your experience section that's causing the lack of response.
When it comes to your illustrations, the material definition is pretty weak, the painting is messy (or more aptly, you need to work on your line economy, lots of places where one big brush would have done a better job than the 15 small strokes you made). The story these first three pictures of ladies tell are not particularly striking. You have an elf doing magic while looking off to the left, a mage girl doing magic things while looking into the camera, and an... angel?
That last one is almost interesting, but there just isn't enough context-- is she anxious? Is that why she's holding the cloth so tightly? Is she having an internal struggle of some kind where she's hesitant to leave but wants to? Needs to? I don't know any of this because you raise the questions but leave them hanging, her body language is static and her facial expression is empty. It also shows a huge lack of understanding of folds here.
The witch girl is the most polished and well thought out as a nice pretty piece of art, but the design is a bit questionable (not the scantily clad aspect, but just the overall... design language, I don't feel like I know what are you going for here), her face is nice but the rest of the skin showing is inconsistently rendered and overall I'm not entirely sure at what I'm supposed to be looking at here.
I see a reliance of photoshop techniques and effects where your experience and traditional oils implies you shouldn't really need them (in the way you're using them). And last of all-- I can't tell for the life of me what your focus is.
Concept artist? Illustrator? What's your strength? Are you good at designing characters? Interesting environments to play in? How does what you design work in-game? How is it applicable? How can the specific studio you're applying for use what you have? I don't see near anything that makes me think, yeah, that's a strong design AND I can see how we'd use it. The best things are the Shrine Concept, and the Tavern. But a lot of your other pieces don't really work as a polished illustration nor a good concept/design to work with.
You need to keep working on your 2D art, stay focused on that (even if you need to get an unrelated job to support yourself while doing so). But work smarter. Figure out your weaknesses.
I'd suggest doing some cutting. Look at your pieces seriously, with a critical eye. Additionally, condense some pages, or just change your layout so you have a landing page with 4 icons that are easy to understand/titled -- Concept Art, Illust, Traditional, Graphic Design. Just so anyone can see what you have to offer up front, without seeing just your illustrations and clicking away without noticing the rest.
Other things you might want to have on your todo list include but are not limited to:
- Do some more studies. Gesture and figure drawing are both fun and always helpful.
http://artists.pixelovely.com/
http://www.floobynooby.com/pdfs/gesturedrawingforanimation.pdf
- Check out how other people approach things (Tutorials, tips, speedpaints, etc)
http://androidarts.com/art_tut.htm
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Concept_Fundamentals
- Check out more art from other people. Check out professional art-- compare your art and techniques if you feel like you can take it, but otherwise just get a nice big "this is where I'd like to be" inspiration folder going. :thumbup:
https://www.artstation.com/
http://conceptartworld.com/
Right here, in our own 2D section!
By the way, 2D is hard as shit and competitive. So it's probably not just you here-- there's a whole lot of other elements at play that might lead to you not getting contacted or hired. So don't feel too bad.
Rest assured no one will look at your previous experience list and go "Oh, the last year and a half he's spent in sales. Well, his art's incredible but we can't possibly hire him now"! The art is where it's at. Try to get some actual experience in with some smaller teams or even just collabs with other artists (maybe 3D artists, writers or people with projects that need some more art help), but if your art is good enough, they have a use for it, and you don't come across as a dick, that's the main concern. :poly142:
Good luck out there, man. Sorry, this turned out big and a little brutal, but I hope it's not too much. I'd like to see you go somewhere with this.
Side note, where are you applying? Everywhere, just the local area, only specific studios, only games jobs? Can you relocate again? Do you have any specific kind of project you'd love to work on? Just interested.
The dates on your latest work, on both your blog and portfolio, are from August 2014. That's six months. Where is the evidence of "nose to the grind-stone"?
You need to learn to work independently. That will provide you an income from your work, improve your portfolio and prove to employers that you can produce.
The alternative is to do things at your own pace or work on prototypes or teach yourself new skills. Nothing wrong with that, just don't expect to get any kind of job.
P.S. - The best concept artist I've worked with used an ancient version of Photoshop with two brushes: hard round and hard square. That's it. He could pick up any paint package and produce the exact same quality in minutes.
BagelHero, those links are incredible and useful, as were your critiques. They open my eyes on what to look out for when creating - I'll be doing some intense practice and reading as well. After the NDA expires on some commission work I've been doing, I will definitely update my portfolio with more polished pieces. The notion of a landing page is a great idea, I will be modifying that website in the coming days. To answer your question, I initially began to apply to game and mobile companies but have since expanded my search to graphic design and marketing to bring as many relevant jobs to the table as possible. I am open to relocation - I live in the Washington DC area. I thoroughly love to work on games and fantasy titles, I am currently involved in an independent fantasy creature and character card illustration project for use alongside D&D and Pathfinder that I found through Kickstarter.
RyanB, you are totally 100% correct. I have not nearly taken enough time managing my online presence to showcase the progress and developments I have made. I should make it an evening ritual to post my work, or I could unload everything I've been doing these past 6 months at once. I always try to tread carefully when sharing client's work though..
After talking with you guys, I feel a lot more comfortable with the notion of an unrelated 9-5, so long that I am always creating, learning, collaborating, and showing. Thanks again so incredibly much.
Also, just a bit of feedback on your portfolio. I think if you`re looking for a concept artist job, you need more work. More variety. You've got some great stuff, but it's mostly characters. I think you really need to add some more location/scenery type of shots, as well as more prop art. Think of all the things that are in games. Weapons, armour, buildings, locations. You have a BIT of that, but personally, I don't think you have enough to really show your creativity. Your skill shows. but not necessarily your creativity, if that makes sense? Employers and recruiters need to see you`ll be able to handle variety between games. I mean, I`m not a concept artist, but if I were to be hiring one, that's what I would want to see. I could be wrong though.
And your website, I feel is poorly designed. It actually took me a bit to realize there was more than one page. I scrolled down to see your art, and thought all your work was only the illustration page. Thinking this can't be it, can it? Eventually scrolling up again I saw the other pages. You might want to consider combining illustration and concept art, since they`re basically the same thing. And put links under your name. Not above it.
Just my two cents.
I'd say, while you do have to always have open mind for critic and stuff, at the end of the day, you know yourself better then any of them, and you most probably know this field (like, concept art) better than any of them.
If it does sound like what they say, has some logic behind it, that doesn't mean you should quit right aways. Go talk to people who actually have experience in this field and can tell you how are things from first hand.
Then if that is actually the case, see what can you do to overcome it.
So in short, you know yourself better then others knows you, so if you do proper research of the topic in question (pro concept art career) and you decide that it' the right thing for you, how can someone who doesn't have almost any info on this subject, really know it better than you?
That doesn't mean you should completely ignore them, take it as a critic.....you always have to listen to critic, but at the end of the day, you are the one making art, you are the one making choice, so while listening people is good, you can't have them make choices for you. It's you.
Not much of a help, i know, but i did have similar problem, friends and relatives talking about how i should just drop this all.
You can't pick your family (well I kinda do but most people don't) so you're a little stuck dealing with family who put down your chosen career, but why are you willingly hanging out with "friends" who tear you down? My career sucks and I don't get the shit you do. If they're making you feel bad, they're not friends. Ditch them. Better hanging out on online forums at home than being around people that aren't good for you.
With all the support groups and what not, you'd think it would be easy to find casual artist groups for irl support but there're hard to come by.
https://www.pinterest.com/characterdesigh/
Hope you can update your site soon, that NDA stuff is a little inconvenient but I can relate. The card game gig seems like a pretty decent gig, right up your alley by the sounds of it. I hope you can create some works through it that you can show!
Washington DC isn't too bad of a place, by the looks of it, you're in the US and open to relocation so that doesn't put you in the worst spot. I wouldn't recommend relocating in advance of a job offer, though. Just putting that out there.
Maintaining an online presence of some kind is definitely a great idea, both for personal progress and allowing others to keep a tab on you.
For me, personally, I find showing my stuff daily to be quite draining and frustrating/demotivating if I can't create sometimes for whatever reasons. A weekly or monthly update is much more realistic for me. Still, do some thinking and try to come up with a schedule and posting habits that work for you-- a sketchbook or 2D section thread here and updating it for crits/feedback once a week? Posting to an art site and your blog once a month? At least once every three months? Whatever's comfortable, as long as you can keep it up, you know? If you're consistent and it's clear you're always creating, you're good.
I think dumping everything you've been doing and then keeping everything up to date from there is better than drip-feeding older work (unless you're already prolific). Again, though, whatever works and keeps you posting. You could always mix it up.
I think its really important to get discouraged otherwise there would be no learning.
Yeah looking at your folio I would say the art is not very strong yet. That doesnt mean you wont succeed but it will make things tougher. The higher your quality the easier it will be to find a position as has been said. For mainstream your work is missing a lot atm. There are some amazing courses (even free ones) available on conceptart.org. If I were you I would concentrate on sketching structures, anatomy, gestures and life drawing. I miss solid volume in your pieces. There is nothing wrong with having your own style and you could keep on making the same work and still make it, just that the field is really narrowed by trying to sell something so specific. If you can inject more general appeal into the folio I am sure that will help.
Good luck.