Demon Hunter WIP

KKolar · Jan 2014

Hey guys, so I have decided to try and do my first true wow/diablo style hand painted model. I'm going to do a hi poly model first then use those maps to create my low poly hand painted texture. This is my first time using this workflow so it should be pretty fun.
Crits, comments, and suggestions always appreciated!

Current Update:

Brian "Panda" Choi · Jan 2014

Armor seems lumpy. You probably want to retopo this out to a cleaner HP.

Dimfist · Jan 2014

That concept is the biz. Can't wait to see what you come up with. JadeEyePanda is right though. Maybe you need to retopo that armor before detailing. As it is it looks very lumpy and soft.

foredea · Jan 2014

I agree with JadeEyePanda. You don't have to sculpt entire body in Zbrush. Please consider to use Maya/Max/Modo to make clean hard-surface modeling.
Also, you can bring the hard-surface modeling from maya to Zbrush and sculpt it later.

KKolar · Jan 2014

@ JadeEyePanda and Dimfist. Thanks for the feedback guys, I went in and retopoed everything and got a much cleaner result. Really glad you caught that.
@foredea Yeah Maya/Max and Modo are way easier to do hard surface in, but I really want to get the practice in zbrush.

Here is the result, thanks again.

Brian "Panda" Choi · Jan 2014

I gotta be honest, what did you retopo? Some areas that I think should end up looking like harder leather, like the breast plates, still seem lumpy.

InvertedVantage · Jan 2014

I actually like the rough look of the armor. If you imagine how these things are made, it would probably be pretty rough from hammer blows during the forging process.

Eliteabix · Jan 2014

I agree with Panda but Im kind of liking the beaten up look on the breastplate - id say thats the strongest part and will probably make for some really interesting normals when youve got it textured up with specular etc.

I cant say Im a massive fan of the strap around the bottom of the "corset" though its a bit wavy and doesnt seem to flow well.

Dimfist · Jan 2014

One other thing to think is when baking down normals, exaggeration is better. Really define those edges of the armor. If you want to stick with doing everything in zbrush you can go back over those edges slowly with the Dam Standard Brush in Zadd. You will probably have to take trim dynamic to them as well to get the nice edge flow. You can always futz around with the brush shape/dynamics as well.

KKolar · Jan 2014

Thanks for the comments guys they have been really helpful. As far as the armor goes I'm really trying to go with that beat up look so nothing will be very smooth. I do agree it was looking a little lumpy still though so here is my current update.

I really tried to define those edges a bit more to have a cleaner roughed up look.

trebor777 · Jan 2014

personnally I'd restart the proportions of the body. If you want a character looking good in an armor, you need to have a nice body below to support it.
Her proportions feels very wrong

(hips/waist and a lot of other stuff)
I understand the body won't be seen, but if you need to improve something, it's that!
It's like making a pretty roof, before laying the walls fundations of a house properly...
Look at the original concept:
try to aim for the body shape on the far left, so that adding the armor feels right:

KKolar · Jan 2014

Thanks Trevor777 for the crit. Yeah I was just kind of ignoring a lot of the anatomy, which was probably a big mistake. Anyways I went and played with some stuff, still have some work to do but its getting there.

Here is where I'm at currently:

KKolar · Jan 2014

Not the best render, but here is where I'm currently at.

ISmokeRodeo · Jan 2014

You should consider using Trim Dynamic/Adaptive or the Polish brushes to clean the armor. In great the sculpt is great. I wanna see more!

KKolar · Jan 2014

@ISmokeRodeo Cool thanks man I will work on it. What part of the armor do you think needs the most work? I'm trying to find that balance of clean looking armor while still looking roughed up.

Texelion · Jan 2014

As other said, you realy should rework the body first, before continuing. The biggest mistake are the hips/legs, if you look at the refs you'll see that the legs are a lot wider under the hips, generally at the same height of the crotch/ass, because the fat is stocked here. The wider point of the female body is not the hips, but below.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Just a quick update based on Texelion's crit. The paintover was super helpful so thanks a ton for that!

Leinad · Feb 2014

It's looking great! I do agree with trebor777's comment that suggested to nail down the overall body proportion before you start sticking armor on top of it. But it is working the way you're doing it so it's fine, just personal preference. Also, I'd love to see the full image including the feet since it would give us a better understanding of how well the overall proportions are working. The detail is coming along quite nicely, you do want to make sure the proportions are nailed down before you get too far into it though. Keep up the good work!

stevston89 · Feb 2014

I would really recommend not sculpting so many things into one mesh. All of the belt should be separate meshes if you want a clean bake. It's looking nice keep it up.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Thanks guys, I've taken some more time to go over her anatomy a bit a got a full body shot so you guys can see how the proportions are working out.
@stevston88 I'm not quite sure If I know what you mean. Pretty much everything you see in there is a separate mesh, I have about 30 subtools.

The legs a still a WIP but here is where I'm at currently

MKqLHEF.jpg?1

I just rendered this guy out for fun and to show you guys more of the dented look I am going to go for in the armor when I start to paint it.

1VyvH8o.jpg?1

stevston89 · Feb 2014

Ahh I see now never mind then. I would just increase the thickness of some of the belts. They look like thy wont show up in the bake because they are soo thin. Like the lastest update!

KKolar · Feb 2014

Okay cool thanks man! I will definitely thicken them up a bit to make them stand out a bit more.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Alright I'm getting pretty close to starting the retopo phase. Let me know what you guys think before I start to bake this down.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Got a big update coming in soon with a ton of fun hand painted textures. But in the mean time here is my low poly.

There is some weird poly overlapping that I'm assuming is just the render because they aren't really there. Anyways hope you are all having a good one, cheers!

Yelle · Feb 2014

How did you get your high-poly into a low poly? It looks so clean.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Thanks Yelle, I just used some of the retopo tools that are in zbrush. Its pretty time consuming because you basically have to draw in every vert, but I like the control you get with it.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Quick update of some of the textures Ive been working on. Obviously still a heavy wip but I wanted to share where I'm at right now.

Currently this is diffuse only, but i will add a spec map soon.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Little texturing update for the night.

Add3r · Feb 2014

I know it is way to late to suggest this, but I feel like the model could benefit from a MUCH higher tri count. With the next gen development rolling around the corner right now, and tri counts starting to sky rocket with the new consoles release and min specs rising, as well as PBR., I feel the the model feels lacking compared to newer character models coming out. I am assuming you are going for more of an FPS or non-rts model with this chick, which means you definitely would have a 50K+ budget for tris on hero character like this. There are so many intricate details you spent time sculpting, that are lost because they are just being baked down and now become just part of the texture. Like the details on the upper chest plate. You could totally make all those plates separate plates overlapped to create the whole upper chest piece. Same with the corset. Easily could become a separate model sitting on top of the lower leg geo. Would add a ton of depth, and would feel really nice compared to the older style of baking it down to a flat model.

Also, do not be afraid of making the model for PBR! You have Marmoset 2! Use that shit doooooood. Dont hold back with all this new tech rolling around, start nailing it down and stepping in front of the herd in terms of knowing the new workflows required. A lot of studios are adapting the tech right now, and knowing the artist can adapt to the new tech and nail it ASAP... Thats a huge plus. PBR in general is the future, its in a majority of major AAA titles in development for Ps4/XBone, and PC.

Just some suggestions man, especially because this is could be a forefront piece for ye ol' port.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Hey man, I get what you are talking about but this piece is in no way supposed to be meant for next gen purposes. I'm creating this piece with three studios in mind. Blizzard, riot, and carbine. Mainly blizzard seeing this is a demon hunter from diablo 3. Thats why I've kept the polycount so low for the model.

While PBR is awesome, and I cant wait to start texturing around that, none of those companies currently have that in engine. Thanks for the suggestions though, when I start modeling for next gen I will definitely keep it in mind.

stevston89 · Feb 2014

If that is what you are aiming for don't use a spec map or the normal map. Their process usually uses the AO bake as a base and then just paint the whole thing on top. Also if you are going to do any more sculpt less. Riot/ blizzard hardly put any detail into sculpts it is all added in the diffuse painting stage. From where you are now I would say tone back your AO and try to paint by hand more. Here is some ref for you.

Add3r · Feb 2014

Makes complete sense, in regards then. Totally understand. But yeah, if you are going that route... Exactly what stevston89 said. Do not rely on your AO to do a lot of the diffuse work, rely more on softer hand painted in AO and then highlights and overall mesh light gradations like in the ref. A lot of Blizzard's style revolves around their overall shape gradients that create a visual hierarchy without much worry about overall diffuse noise. They use brighter hues/values towards the top and work their way down, same with polycounts. Higher mesh detail at the brighter gradation in the diffuse and work their way down to very blocky shapes.

I think you need to find the game and setting you want to character to really fit in,such as as like an FPS/First person MMO, RTS, etc. and then go from there. Once again, not trying to be a dick

KKolar · Feb 2014

@Add3r No worries man I never thought you were being a dick, thanks for the crits. I will continue to tweak my texture and post when I have a decent update. Also the game and setting is diablo 3.

@stevston89 Yeah I have never done this process before so I realized once I started texture that about half the modeling was irrelevant because I'm just painting over it. Next time I will be able to do this much faster

Thanks for that ref it will help a lot. And I will definitely tone down the AO a bit, it definitely looks a bit too dark in some areas.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Sorry I haven't updated in a while, I got distracted with a few side projects. I still have to go through and do some cleanup and add some small things (red cloak, skulls teeth). But it's getting pretty close. Let me know what you guys think.

KKolar · Feb 2014

I got her posed and am now working on finishing up some textures (especially the weapons and scarf).
This is diffuse only, I'm thinking of adding a spec but I'm not sure yet.

killazzz · Feb 2014

This is looking dope!
Id say for sure do a spec map for this, even if they dont use one in D3, it would really make this piece look more badass.
if I had to nit pick, id say perhaps throw in a bit more color variation into the skulls horns, and perhaps saturate some of the gold trim work a bit more, the cloth could use a bit more geo as well.
Otherwise Well done!

stevston89 · Feb 2014

I wouldn't use spec. The reason the metal isn't reading properly is because it has no contrast. You are also spreading light across it too much. The metal should mostly be dark with very bright highlights. It just looks very muddy overall. You need to sharpen your details and up the contrast on everything. Here is some more ref that might help. Also stay away from using black to make shadows ( especially around the skin). Instead use dark colors. Here is some more ref to help out. Also I would take a look at the ref I posted earlier and do a side by side comparison to your own.

KKolar · Feb 2014

Thanks killazzz! And as far as the saturation goes you are spot on, thanks for pointing that out.
Wow, great refs again stevston89, the guy almost even has the same color scheme. Great advice on the metal, everything was definitely looking too muddy. I got an update incoming that is already looking a ton better thanks to your crits, so thanks a ton guys.

pablohurtado · Feb 2014

I'm really liking your progress on this character. The sculpt looked awesome, topology looked clean, and your textures are getting there. Just keep grinding dude, it's not an easy style to accomplish (I can only imagine). Can't wait to see the final result.

KKolar · Feb 2014

@pablohurtado For someone who has never worked in the industry and struggling to get in, that really means a lot. Sometimes its hard to tell whether I'm getting anywhere with my pieces, and whether they are worth the continued effort. Small comments like that keep me pushing. Thanks man.

KKolar · Feb 2014

So I listened to your guys crits and am doing the best I can to follow them. I still have a lot of work to do but I wanted to post my progress to see if I was going in the right direction. Hope it looks better!

KKolar · Mar 2014

Getting pretty close to calling this one done, let me know what you guys think.

LaurentiuN · Mar 2014

Looks demonic man, great job:>

KKolar · Mar 2014

Thanks s1dK! I'll post a breakdown with my maps soon.

KKolar · Sep 2014

I got some critiques on this a while back from some of the guys at riot when I went to gdc. i thought it would be nice to go back and do a quick texture update based on the feedback given.

Also I never posted my maps or anything so here are those also:

Stirls · Sep 2014

That looks great! Though I can't help but feel that some of your islands could be closer together/larger. I'm sure it doesn't actually matter all that much. Reminds me a lot of that WoW aesthetic. Really diggin' it!

KKolar · Sep 2014

Thanks Stirls! Yeah I could have definitely used up more of that empty space, especially on the armor sheet. I'm glad you like it though. One of the first pieces I'm really proud to put in my portfolio.

Brian "Panda" Choi · Sep 2014

Looking awesome! The faithfulness to the Diablo 3 texturing style looks solid.

I know it looks finished, and I know the feeling of finality on these sort of things (if you're feeling it, I mean), but maybe there's one last thing I think that might push this.

Hopefully this makes sene, but see if you can splash in "off-hues" (hues that aren't local, like a muted green or blue in the metal and leather. I think, if done a certain way, it'll add a bit more depth to the textures, really add a bit of life to them. Textured brush of some sort should do it.

You already have a solid base, I think, a little more of subtle detailing will just be more delicious icing on it.

KKolar · Sep 2014

Yeah that makes total sense, thanks for the suggestion.
Now that you mention it i can see the lack of off hues in the shadows.
Ill play around with it a bit more after I finish up my sion rework, thanks again!

Chronicle · Sep 2014

I agree, that was a very clean retopo to low poly. Looks excellent

akarielgueta · Sep 2014

hello friend wanted to ask if I can give OVJ the demon hunter and I will do that costume and I need it I'd appreciate it very much greetings

Demon Hunter WIP

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