I'm far from an authority on the topic, but it seems reasonable to me. I'll cite ArenaNet's character art tests which budget 7500 tris with 1024 normal, diffuse, specular, and alpha.
I think it's good to state what you're intended range is for tri count purposes as well as max texture size. I think textures and materials are a bit different though. Mid range stuff could still use emissive, SSS, etc as well as full material support (through UDK or marmoset , etc)
Yuze, I agree with you on some points more than others. I think we need to look at detail and not have something that is overly complicated. I don't think that the cyborg concepts posted are too crazy though. Most the hard edge shapes are pretty simple overall on those concepts.
I don't think that stylized is as much of a problem if the shapes are clear and easy to read. I would actually use the art from League of Legends as an example. Most the characters are heavily stylized but they have clear form and silhouette without going too crazy on minor details. Also, there is a video of Josh Singh showing the character sculpt process in ZBrush which shows a good example of how to quickly block out your shapes and start detailing. Most the shapes he creates are large for easy readability which I think is important so that people can focus on sweeping shapes and not get lost in minor details.
This is a noob challenge yes, but I feel that "challenge" is the key word. You're not working these alone, but with peers sharing information back and forth and that is invaluable. In a job you could be making things that are outside of your comfort zone so I agree with Kapoff about diving in. You may surprise yourself with what you'll accomplish.
I'm far from an authority on the topic, but it seems reasonable to me. I'll cite ArenaNet's character art tests which budget 7500 tris with 1024 normal, diffuse, specular, and alpha.
I believe that, the requirements for ArenaNET test characters are way to strict. I can agree on texture part, but polygons ?
Character in Camelot Unchained have at least 10k tris (AFAIR it is actually above 12k), which I think is reasonable number.
I say use as few as polygons possible, but not at the cost of more expensive textures (or material setup), or cutting details that can be made movable and add secondary movement to character.
I think the best idea; would be to pick 3 concepts from those posted, and allow us to vote; that way we can get this thing underway and organised
THIS!
On another note, maybe we should start doing something, I have a feeling otherwise we are gonna talk, and fiddle about rules and stuff for like another 2 pages before anything actually happens, and the whole thing is gonna fade away like a good idea that never was.
Should anyone post concept or have we got enough that we should start choosing and drop concepts for the next month? Actually getting a bit excited for it to start, can't wait! :P
Really don't want to keep repeating myself or look asif i'm hijacking the thread because I'm not; but I really want to see the ball move on this one
I believe theres been a variety of concept art posted; can someone post like the top 5 concepts and allow us to vote on 1; obviously the one with the most votes will be the chosen concept to model
May I also ask what the rules on base mesh's is;
do we have to make our own or allowed to use those posted on the polycount Wiki.
I made a list of all the URL's for the pictures posted so far, feel free to add more or if i've missed one, like dave i just want to get the ball rolling and if i'm presuming too much feel free to tell me.
A)
C)
D)
E)
F)
G)
H)
I)
J)
K)
L)
My vote goes to A, got a good mix of anatomy hard surface and cloth imo.
G would be better for noobs since it's simpler. It would be best hand painted though. I imagine that we won't have strict rules about how we interpret concept ? We can make it realistic even if it's stylized ?
I is cool too. Would need way more work though.
I hope I will be able to throw myself at it since christmas will give me some free time. LETS GO!!!
since this is meant as a learning and challenging exercise, i guess its up to each participant to decide what they are trying to learn. If you are solid on basemeshes, you probably already have a ton of your own to use, if you arent very confident with making basemeshes, maybe this isnt the best thing to take shortcuts on? this is all for fun anyway and the price is what you take away from this exercise.
I imagine that we won't have strict rules about how we interpret concept ? We can make it realistic even if it's stylized ?
I would think so in regards to texture and material usage more so than mesh. If you want to make it with normals, spec, emmisive, etc you can or you could work in flat diffuse only. Totally up to you. That being said, it needs to still be recognizable as the concept. There are some interesting models in the Env challenge where some people went full handpaint where others went with a more modern workflow. Awesome to compare side by side but they were all recognizable to the concept.
On basemeshes: I don't think base meshes are an issue personally. Most places you work, you'll be able to use a base mesh as a starting point and I feel it is up to you regarding how you think you would be best served. Some people prefer to start with a base mesh, some people may start with a sphere in ZBrush.
Brandon, I think those rules are perfect.
*edit I also think regarding concepts that this month we're kind of throwing everything into the pot to see what people want to start with. I think that as a best practice in the following months we should alternate between something stylized and something more "realistic." Mainly so if someone is turned off by a certain style they don't feel excluded and it would be good to have a variety to push people to work outside their comfort zones.
This one =D Its nice and doesnt have too many complex parts on it. My second vote would be the monk, just because its badass but is probs too complex for a noob challenge
edit: @JohnnyRaptor i think its good for people to either make their own if they want, or start from a sphere and figure the proportions out that way, takes slightly longer but is good for learning imo
Also liked this one and just finished reading the whole thread. Seems like there is a vote in top already done but i supposed that doesnt count anymore? Anyway, looking forward to participate in this monthly challange
7. Learn as much as you can. Share what you've learned.
As far as the voting goes, I think we should select from the five most re-posted concepts. If we run a poll with over ten choices, the votes would be so diluted that we may end up in a situation where the chosen concept is the favorite of only a minority of participants.
By my count, the current favorites appear to be:
Just waiting on Kapoff to throw up the new poll. I'd make it myself, but I'd hate to steal his thunder. Go! Go! Go!
I think the last on you posted has some good organic, hard surface and cloth aspects. I do like the little fox girl too because it can be interpreted in so many ways.
Brandon, thanks for being so invested in all this, your recaps are super useful!
Should I create a New thread with the rules and the 5 up runners or just update this one ?
Also regarding basemeshes, I thing it's really up to everyone to decide as many of you said. Most of the time I start from a sphere and dynamesh it until I have a solid base but again, if someone is working outside of Zbrush or simply prefers throwing some rough polys in max/maya/blender/whatever and start refining from there it's a way to go too. Workflow is something personal. But again, we are here to learn and improve ourselves so trying new ways to start is pretty important.
Brandon, thanks for being so invested in all this, your recaps are super useful!
Should I create a New thread with the rules and the 5 up runners or just update this one ?
Also regarding basemeshes, I thing it's really up to everyone to decide as many of you said. Most of the time I start from a sphere and dynamesh it until I have a solid base but again, if someone is working outside of Zbrush or simply prefers throwing some rough polys in max/maya/blender/whatever and start refining from there it's a way to go too. Workflow is something personal. But again, we are here to learn and improve ourselves so trying new ways to start is pretty important.
I would make a new thread; with the top 3 concepts posted on here. Give it three days for people to vote before then making a post on xmas eve with the challenge and the voted concept.
This allows people to use some of the xmas period as a boost, allows any issues to be kinked out with the extra week we have and allows us to get a MOVE ON
I think there is a pretty clear winner. I don't know if there is a point to another vote thread, but maybe that just me. I think we should start a new thread for the challenge itself Either way yes please start a new thread.... like right now please. I am really excited for this it's gonna be awesome!
we should have an official start and finish date, for example let the concept voting run till the end of December and officially start the monthly comp in January?
we should have an official start and finish date, for example let the concept voting run till the end of December and officially start the monthly comp in January?
Or we could just start the challenge thread now and run it until the end of January. This way we have more time to get used to the process and work out the kinks. Just my opinion though.
Or we could just start the challenge thread now and run it until the end of January. This way we have more time to get used to the process and work out the kinks. Just my opinion though.
For the environment challenge, usually the voting for the next concept starts during the last week of the month.
Yes, but we seem to have used this thread as the voting thread already... And since there is a clear winner might be best to just start. Just my opinion though.
We do have a pretty solid consensus on the choice of concept art. I don't think another poll will be necessary. It seems like this thread has served as a pretty good model for selecting concepts. We should use the same method in future months. As Fnitrox suggested, we should start a new thread on the last week of each month to select concepts for the following challenge.
I'm in the camp that prefers to start this first challenge early, and then have it run through until the end of January. This way participants will have a bit of extra time to get used to the format of the challenges. All future competitions should start and end on the first and last day of each month.
With that being said, I have emailed the artist of the favored character to ensure that he has no objections to our use of his art. For the sake of professional courtesy, I think we should give him at least a little time to respond before we kick off the first challenge.
His name is Konstantin Maystrenko and you can check out more of his work here.
I'm also in the camp of let the challenge start early and go, even though I can't join in before january.
on another note, konstantin is a freaking badass, so cool art he is putting out!
Hmmm, I don't mind a few extra time to do this. But then again I would also like to finish my current Assassin char before I start other things comes new year.
well everything is gonna go bananas when comicon challenge starts anyways, so for me, starting early is the only realistic way doing this, the other alternative for me would be to wait and join next month.
which sounds very sad, I think its important we get this going, establishing consistence and habbits before other things comes in the way. (I do agree with Brandon though)
With that being said, I have emailed the artist of the favored character to ensure that he has no objections to our use of his art. For the sake of professional courtesy, I think we should give him at least a little time to respond before we kick off the first challenge.
His name is Konstantin Maystrenko and you can check out more of his work here.
His work/style is awesome. Good idea to email and check as well Im up for starting early but i would rather wait incase he objects
I'm buds with Konstantin on facebook. I can see if I can speed that process up.
Message sent. I'll let you know if he gets back to me in a timely manner.
Replies
I think it's good to state what you're intended range is for tri count purposes as well as max texture size. I think textures and materials are a bit different though. Mid range stuff could still use emissive, SSS, etc as well as full material support (through UDK or marmoset , etc)
Yuze, I agree with you on some points more than others. I think we need to look at detail and not have something that is overly complicated. I don't think that the cyborg concepts posted are too crazy though. Most the hard edge shapes are pretty simple overall on those concepts.
I don't think that stylized is as much of a problem if the shapes are clear and easy to read. I would actually use the art from League of Legends as an example. Most the characters are heavily stylized but they have clear form and silhouette without going too crazy on minor details. Also, there is a video of Josh Singh showing the character sculpt process in ZBrush which shows a good example of how to quickly block out your shapes and start detailing. Most the shapes he creates are large for easy readability which I think is important so that people can focus on sweeping shapes and not get lost in minor details.
This is a noob challenge yes, but I feel that "challenge" is the key word. You're not working these alone, but with peers sharing information back and forth and that is invaluable. In a job you could be making things that are outside of your comfort zone so I agree with Kapoff about diving in. You may surprise yourself with what you'll accomplish.
I believe that, the requirements for ArenaNET test characters are way to strict. I can agree on texture part, but polygons ?
Character in Camelot Unchained have at least 10k tris (AFAIR it is actually above 12k), which I think is reasonable number.
I say use as few as polygons possible, but not at the cost of more expensive textures (or material setup), or cutting details that can be made movable and add secondary movement to character.
On another note, maybe we should start doing something, I have a feeling otherwise we are gonna talk, and fiddle about rules and stuff for like another 2 pages before anything actually happens, and the whole thing is gonna fade away like a good idea that never was.
Really don't want to keep repeating myself or look asif i'm hijacking the thread because I'm not; but I really want to see the ball move on this one
I believe theres been a variety of concept art posted; can someone post like the top 5 concepts and allow us to vote on 1; obviously the one with the most votes will be the chosen concept to model
May I also ask what the rules on base mesh's is;
do we have to make our own or allowed to use those posted on the polycount Wiki.
Cheers
Dave
A)
C)
D)
E)
F)
G)
H)
I)
J)
K)
L)
My vote goes to A, got a good mix of anatomy hard surface and cloth imo.
I'm assuming Kapoff will be creating another thread for the final concept selection. Can't wait to get started on this. Let the voting begin!
I is cool too. Would need way more work though.
I hope I will be able to throw myself at it since christmas will give me some free time. LETS GO!!!
+1
but this one is really speaking to me!
Theres no information on base meshes; are we allowed to use those from wiki or do we each have to create our own?
since this is meant as a learning and challenging exercise, i guess its up to each participant to decide what they are trying to learn. If you are solid on basemeshes, you probably already have a ton of your own to use, if you arent very confident with making basemeshes, maybe this isnt the best thing to take shortcuts on? this is all for fun anyway and the price is what you take away from this exercise.
I would think so in regards to texture and material usage more so than mesh. If you want to make it with normals, spec, emmisive, etc you can or you could work in flat diffuse only. Totally up to you. That being said, it needs to still be recognizable as the concept. There are some interesting models in the Env challenge where some people went full handpaint where others went with a more modern workflow. Awesome to compare side by side but they were all recognizable to the concept.
On basemeshes: I don't think base meshes are an issue personally. Most places you work, you'll be able to use a base mesh as a starting point and I feel it is up to you regarding how you think you would be best served. Some people prefer to start with a base mesh, some people may start with a sphere in ZBrush.
Brandon, I think those rules are perfect.
*edit I also think regarding concepts that this month we're kind of throwing everything into the pot to see what people want to start with. I think that as a best practice in the following months we should alternate between something stylized and something more "realistic." Mainly so if someone is turned off by a certain style they don't feel excluded and it would be good to have a variety to push people to work outside their comfort zones.
This one =D Its nice and doesnt have too many complex parts on it. My second vote would be the monk, just because its badass but is probs too complex for a noob challenge
edit: @JohnnyRaptor i think its good for people to either make their own if they want, or start from a sphere and figure the proportions out that way, takes slightly longer but is good for learning imo
Yeah, I really like this one too.
Also liked this one and just finished reading the whole thread. Seems like there is a vote in top already done but i supposed that doesnt count anymore? Anyway, looking forward to participate in this monthly challange
This one has my vote! like others have stated, its a simpler start to the challenge to get the kinks sorted out! + I just love the concept ha
Edit: Also about base meshes. I would say its up to the individual whether they would like to use one or not, since its more of a learning experience.
As far as the voting goes, I think we should select from the five most re-posted concepts. If we run a poll with over ten choices, the votes would be so diluted that we may end up in a situation where the chosen concept is the favorite of only a minority of participants.
By my count, the current favorites appear to be:
Just waiting on Kapoff to throw up the new poll. I'd make it myself, but I'd hate to steal his thunder. Go! Go! Go!
Hope this idea really happens in 2014, rly looking forward to it
Brandon, thanks for being so invested in all this, your recaps are super useful!
Should I create a New thread with the rules and the 5 up runners or just update this one ?
Also regarding basemeshes, I thing it's really up to everyone to decide as many of you said. Most of the time I start from a sphere and dynamesh it until I have a solid base but again, if someone is working outside of Zbrush or simply prefers throwing some rough polys in max/maya/blender/whatever and start refining from there it's a way to go too. Workflow is something personal. But again, we are here to learn and improve ourselves so trying new ways to start is pretty important.
I would make a new thread; with the top 3 concepts posted on here. Give it three days for people to vote before then making a post on xmas eve with the challenge and the voted concept.
This allows people to use some of the xmas period as a boost, allows any issues to be kinked out with the extra week we have and allows us to get a MOVE ON
Also heres my vote.
Simple yet very cool concept
Yeah, what he said.
EDIT: I figured out I counted the images in McKracken's compilation post by mistake so you should drop one vote from each image.
I agree
For the environment challenge, usually the voting for the next concept starts during the last week of the month.
I'm in the camp that prefers to start this first challenge early, and then have it run through until the end of January. This way participants will have a bit of extra time to get used to the format of the challenges. All future competitions should start and end on the first and last day of each month.
With that being said, I have emailed the artist of the favored character to ensure that he has no objections to our use of his art. For the sake of professional courtesy, I think we should give him at least a little time to respond before we kick off the first challenge.
His name is Konstantin Maystrenko and you can check out more of his work here.
on another note, konstantin is a freaking badass, so cool art he is putting out!
which sounds very sad, I think its important we get this going, establishing consistence and habbits before other things comes in the way. (I do agree with Brandon though)
His work/style is awesome. Good idea to email and check as well
Message sent. I'll let you know if he gets back to me in a timely manner.