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My Year Long Trek

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  • anglorum
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    anglorum polycounter lvl 6
    Man. Wanna put that food in mah face. Also, I love that your trendy pie is presented right in the middle of that shot as if to say "Here Trendy, take all this. It could all be yours."
  • AbKI
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    AbKI polycounter lvl 6
    I want to try that orange frothy drink of doom! :) Really like the design of that one.
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Ha! Thanks guys. Here's another piece

    Stool.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    A beer stein. I need to add more of a back drop to the wood where the crest is, but other than that I'm calling it done

    Stein.PNG
  • Nosslak
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    Nosslak polycounter lvl 12
    I think it's a bit lacking in depth as you there is no AO in places where you'd expect. For example there should be AO behind the metal rims and the crest. I'm not saying you should bake it, just that you should try painting in some AO manually.

    The different planks could use some color variation as well.
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Nosslak wrote: »
    I think it's a bit lacking in depth as you there is no AO in places where you'd expect. For example there should be AO behind the metal rims and the crest. I'm not saying you should bake it, just that you should try painting in some AO manually.

    The different planks could use some color variation as well.

    Yeah, I totally agree! Here are some adjustments.

    Stein2.PNG
  • Nosslak
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    Nosslak polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah, that looks a lot better. I think the wood is a bit too saturated and as I said the different planks could maybe be colored differently (just some subtle color variation between them).
  • ZombieWells
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    ZombieWells polycounter lvl 12
    A few things; think about the shape and weight of objects.... that mug could be way cooler with a fat bottom and a skinny top... give it bottom weight and make if feel more balanced and stronger. Your gems are super dull, (highlights/darks) there is no thickness to the brass, or the shield, (add geo) the line work around the shield needs to be thicker. handle could have more body... also hows that lid going to open? Less planks in the mug body.... and it's getting way too noisy. Also remember that this is a small object and needs clear bold shapes and colors. The textures still need work. One more thing, what are you going to do with all of these props and textures? It seems like you should be building a scene, or starting thinking about building one like this guy. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128182

    Also start looking at pro hand painters.... and do what they do. It seems to me your not referencing a whole lot... which is bad. http://tysonmurphyportfolio.blogspot.com/
    http://joekelleriv.blogspot.com/
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/12426480/artcraft-a-first-look-1-23-2014

    One more thing to mention. Start giving freed back on your own work. Mention that you think the gold texture, (for example) needs more green, better high lights darks... or I think I could have popped it out a bit more by adding some darks to the wood where it meets the rim of the gold/brass. That way people know that your thinking about this stuff and can help push you in the right direction... and try doing paint overs of your own stuff. It helps flush out where you went wrong, or what you can do to push it to the next level. Super fast, easy, and you can post it.
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for your detailed response ZombieWells. I'll try to do the same! The mug is already skinny/fat, although I can probably push those proportions further. I was never fully satisfied with the mug but I had already spent a lot of time on it and wanted to move on to the next asset. After looking back on this piece I realized I have been putting too much detail into something which plays a very minor part in my project. I need to work on putting an appropriate amount of detail into my pieces based on their size/importance. Something like this mug probably doesn't need a crest design at all.

    I've subscribed to Andy H's thread; thanks for sharing! I am doing a scene in fact, but until now I've just been doing the smaller things. My end goal is to have a tavern scene. I'm switching gears a bit and will be working on the larger architectural pieces such as floor, wall, trim, etc. and a general blockout.

    I'm well aware of Tyson Murphy (and others) and the World of Warcraft art style, but I don't know how I feel about, more often than not, being directed to that game's style of hand painting whenever there is hand painting to be seen. It seems the two major hand painted art styles are similar to WoW or similar to League of Legends (less detail, lots of solid gradients). I suppose I should be aiming for these styles, but how much room do I really have to freely practice? I'm certainly not an expert at hand painting but a lot of people just default to referencing WoW when my texture work doesn't look exactly that way, as if that's the baseline for all painted textures. :/

    I do reference often actually, just not always World of Warcraft artists or its exact style. Should I be? I'm not trying to sound sarcastic, that's an honest question. Should I just try to copy WoW or LoL just so I can "fit in" better? Seems like a cop-out to me. :poly141:

    I will start giving self-feedback here. Perhaps that will get others to be more interactive with my thread :)

    So! On to today's work. A friend said my wood looks a little too airbrushed for his liking, which I get since he's a huge WoW buff. Despite that, I would have to agree. There are some areas that are too soft, and there's one little bit I'm looking at right now that appears to be floating. I'll have to fix that tomorrow.

    WoodPlanks.png

    Tiles.PNG

    I'm occasionally told to add "color variation." I get why it's important, but for someone trying to learn that's the equivalent to telling a chef that his food needs "more flavor." Which colors? Why those? Do they go in the shadows/highlights/midtones? All pertinent bits of information (to me) that are almost always omitted.
  • CarlK3D
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    CarlK3D polycounter lvl 7
    That Wood Texture looks great, as well as most of your pieces above.

    Which colors Its basically the same process you did for the Highlights and Lowlights in the Wood itself. I think it can also be used to fake Depth in each plank, it also gives and impression which planks catch more/ less light at different lvls. without it the Texture looks Self Illuminated.

    Heres a reference of what I mean
    color_variation_En.jpg

    Just makes the Texture more Interesting to look at mainly - Wood Color Variation Reference
  • AlexKola
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    AlexKola polycounter lvl 9
    Great point CarlK^



    Another thing to be carful of is contrast, I see so many textures that have nicely painted details like this but miss out on Value and saturation. The way your levels are working right now, it's as if every board of wood is a show piece. High contrast all around. What you need to aim for is a lot lower contrast with limited high value peaks. for characters and vehicles... all hero props basically you should treated them as a whole. For environment elements, think of them more as individual brush strokes that make up the entire painting that is the environment.

    Hope that helps :)

    AlexKola_WoodCrit.gif

    KolaCrit_WoodPersp.jpg
  • ZombieWells
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    ZombieWells polycounter lvl 12
    you don't need to do WOW stuff... its just that a lot of your work seems to be going in that direction... this might be why people direct you towards wow artist, (I know I did for that reason). Anyhow, theres a bunch of hand painted stuff out there,
    tumblr_mpfg86jDB71s3x43wo1_1280.jpg


    His early stuff, was art director of 343, (halo) awesome hand painted stuffs.

    Diablo 3, great pallet

    diablo3-2.jpg

    even this is hand painted if you wanted to go real.

    2u6e.jpg

    Also, your wood texture is pretty good man... just some little things I think could help you out. Just to say, the bolts are still going to tile strangely is my guess; Still, you really have to put a scene together to see how it is all going to fit... lighting is huge. Building the base elements is going to help you see what textures need help, proportions, framing... all sorts of stuff. Sooner you start getting that stuff in engine the better!

    3euz.jpg
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    CarlK3D - Thanks! Your visual on color variation helps drive home such a simple thing that I've been missing. I also need to take advantage of gradients more often.

    AlexKola - I never looked at it like that before, and it's a good point. I have recently noticed I tend to go full blast on detail (to the best of my abilities) without regard to the importance that piece plays in the overall composition of the scene. For things like the flagon and stein, the detail on those should be toned way down I think. I will likely redo those so they aren't quite as noisy.

    Anyway, I fiddled with your mini tutorial and I'm satisfied with the results. Your example was a bit too dark for my tastes so I went with something inbetween. :)

    ZombieWells - Wow, thanks for the super detailed follow up! I guess my work so far does look similar to World of Warcraft, though I'm not really intending for that to happen... I have some friends who have been steering me away from the "smooth" style of texturing so maybe that's why. I think I prefer to eventually paint in the League of Legends or Blubber Busters style, but at this point any type of painting is valuable for me.

    Thanks especially for taking the time to go over my texture and point out specifically how to improve it. I've saved that image to my hard drive so I can reference it quickly. :) This is the kind of feedback I hope to receive much of but I'm sure it takes a while to do, and for a stranger no less.

    I implemented some of your and AlexKola's suggestions and I'm satisfied with the results. I also changed the round-top metal bits to more of a flat nail. Since this texture will be used in my scene, I can always go back and touch it up once everything else starts coming together.

    BeforeAfter.png

    Planks_Tile.png

    Planks.PNG

    Here's some other stuff I did today. I painted a quick stone brick texture for a friend for the Global Game Jam. I was more concerned with my own project so I didn't care to spend a huge amount of time on this one, but I don't think it came out too bad.

    Forge.png

    I'm working on some cobblestones for a floor texture next. Here's my progress; I'll be adding to it tomorrow.

    Floor_Stone.png
  • AlexKola
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    AlexKola polycounter lvl 9
    Looking back on my monitors at home I totally agree that crit came out dark, so good call.

    It can sometimes be tough to judge the level of contrast of a texture without any context. Once you have a few props next to the wood and begin to see the scene as a whole it will be a lot easier to judge the loudness of any individual texture.
  • ZombieWells
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    ZombieWells polycounter lvl 12
    No problem man! Happy to help. Anyhow, a work buddy just linked me to this vid. Great stuff, He might be saying that he's using his own voice, and I get that. But his color theory on warms and cool, and what's actually in his paintings is something to pay attention to. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nINus0lYQjo"]Using Colour In Your Paintings - YouTube[/ame]
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Hey, it's been a few days. I've been modeling a ton and skipped out on painting a bit.

    Below: quiver of arrows, case of crossbow bolts, 3 corked potions, scroll, money bag

    Items1.PNG

    Below: weapon rack, anvil, 2-handed sword, 1-handed sword, dagger, buckler, kite shield

    Items2.PNG

    Below: bow, crossbow, blunderbuss (yes that's the Half-Life crossbow and the Looper blunderbuss... I plan to have some popular weapons hidden about my scene :))

    Items3.PNG

    ZombieWells Awesome video. I tried his method of kind of splattering color around but I'm not entirely familiar with it so I wasn't getting such great results. I'll have to continue to dabble so I can see what sort of minor details it can add to my paintings.

    Here's today's texture. I think there's too much in the red channel. I tried adding some color variation: some green in the highlights and maroon in the shadows, but it still feels off.

    Cobbles.png

    CobbleTiles.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Been puttering around in Unity and Maya all day. I'm close to getting all of the foreseeable assets unwrapped and placed, then I'm going to slap some base colors and lights on and see how the scene reads...

    I might revisit the floor plan for the tavern to get away from the rectangular feel it has right now, but as far as using this to check how colors work with all the other assets nearby, this will work fine for now. Obviously, not all the assets are in place. Some guard rails would be nice, and maybe some windows and doors, huh? And a fireplace. And some other junk to clutter up those bare walls. :thumbup:

    Scene.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Hey, I haven't posted in the last few days, again. Been trying to knock out all the models and base colors before I start my several weeks straight of hand paintings.

    I reworked the floor plan since last time. I didn't like how spacious the first one was because it made it difficult to fill in large open spots on walls and floors and such.

    Also, there are no windows yet. They're coming, along with shelves! And maybe some other neat-o things :)

    Ive also been toying with the toon shader in Unity. I tweaked the cube map so it puts a smooth gradient across everything. Hopefully that will look nice combined with the textures once they start getting added.

    Capture3.PNG

    Capture2.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Started getting textures in place today. It started to get late so instead of jumping into texturing a bunch, I messed around with some lighting. It's coming together nicely.

    Lighting.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    I think I got a pretty good formula down for my project so all my wood will look similar. Right now there are certain wooden assets that look completely different from each other because of wood grain and coloration and such. I'll have to re-paint some things but it'll totally be worth it in the end.

    I just finished texturing (for the most part) the big-ass casket fixed behind the main counter (you can see it in the shot above). I will probably add some metal bands and nails to break up what is more or less an asset made of 100% wood.

    Tun.PNG

    Tun2.PNG

    Crits, as always, are welcomed and encouraged. Rip my face off please
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    I re-painted the floor wood so it matches the new wood style of the tun.

    I might go back and define the space between each board, they kind of blend together a little bit right now.

    Don't mind those other things in the tiled shot, those will be retextured soon enough :)

    Wood+Planks.png

    Wood+Tiles.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Finished re-painting the planks to all the stairways to match the new wooden style. The hand rails aren't quite done yet either but they will be tomorrow. There are so many assets made out of wood in my scene I figured I had to start breaking stuff up a bit more, so I added some metal trim. I'll probably go back and add some bolts so the trim makes more sense (like how was it fitted around the wood if it wasn't bolted on).

    What I will probably end up doing is getting all my textures to about this level, then going back over everything and adding damage or details to make everything more cohesive.

    Planks.PNG

    Stairs.PNG
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    Bartalon wrote: »
    Wood+Tiles.PNG

    My eyes! :poly127:

    I think the wood looks great but you need to figure out a way of breaking up the noise, I noticed in WoW they sometimes tile wood planks in a massive scale but not sure it would work here.
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah, I agree. Right now the material tiling is set to double because it feels too big at 1 per tile. I might toy around with getting rid of the bolts and placing them more sparingly using decals (apparently they did this all over the place in Skyrim). Since the texture only has one plank per row, I can't really add color variation or obvious stripes will appear. I'll probably just end up reworking it tomorrow.

    Thanks for the feedback, and sorry about the eyes :)
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    I tweaked the floor texture. Darkened it up a bit and added some discoloration and other random dark spots. It definitely looks less noisy, but I can probably still make it less so. I'm going to see how it looks with longer boards which will reduce the amount of nails per tile.

    Floor+Tile.png

    Floor.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Hey, I haven't posted in a while. I've been sick. I'm trying not to post unfinished stuff but since it's been several days I figured I would just post some models I'm in the process of finishing up (well, at least a first pass).

    Comments/Crits are encouraged.

    Wood+Stuff.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Remember when I said I've been sick? Yeah, well, I've been sick this whole time. This expectedly has slowed me down some. I have done more than just this simple texture since last update, but it's on a different project and I won't be showing screenshots until it's finished.

    Wall_Stone.png

    Here it is in engine with tthe other stuff:

    Capture.PNG

    It doesn't quite match with the floor tiles. They're rather muted by comparison. Once I have a first pass completed on them all I'll be revisiting the textures to balance all the color and saturation.
  • funkdelic
    Awesome progress man, I see lots of potential here, keep at it.
    Also, amazing feedback from the community, I'm watching =]
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks! Yeah, the comments I've received have definitely helped me improve.

    I finally replaced my render clouds placeholder stucco/plaster texture with something real.

    Plaster.png

    Here it is in the scene. It's still a bit noisy I think, but after placing the other props on the walls and lighting, it probably won't even be noticeable.

    Tiles.PNG
  • Dubzski
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    Dubzski polycounter lvl 11
    Hey lovely to see your posts, i enjoyed the poly modeling you did at the start especially that chandelier mmmm yum.
    With your hand painted stuff (mainly the wood) my main gripe would its way over the top.... I'd abandon the floor panels with nails in them & make two textures one with and one without & use the one with nails in sparingly to add detail ^_^.

    Or failing that make the nails much much smaller !
  • Alphavader
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    Alphavader polycounter lvl 11
    good work - iam watching this ;)
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Dubzski wrote:
    Hey lovely to see your posts, i enjoyed the poly modeling you did at the start especially that chandelier mmmm yum.
    With your hand painted stuff (mainly the wood) my main gripe would its way over the top.... I'd abandon the floor panels with nails in them & make two textures one with and one without & use the one with nails in sparingly to add detail ^_^.

    Hey, thanks! I'd like to do some more ZBrush stuff but I'm focusing on this hand painted stuff at the moment. More ZBrush stuff in my next project! Also I agree with you on the wood floor tiles. I think What I'm going to do is get rid of the nails in the texture and plop some around as decals.
    Alphavader wrote:
    good work - iam watching this ;)
    Thanks for watching!

    I've been flip flopping between a couple other projects over the last few days which explains my lack up updates. Here's some stuff that I've textured that doesn't completely suck.

    AnvilShield.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Hay guys, it's been like eight or nine days since my last update. So much for daily updates huh

    I didn't want to bore you with shots of random half-textured assets. Here's what I have been doing:

    I need to tweak the vertex-painted gradient on the dagger; it's too strong.
    Weapons.PNG

    Scrolls inspired by Identify/Town Portal scrolls
    Scrolls.PNG

    Rug.PNG

    This took me like 5 tries to get the folds looking right. Cloth is hard!
    Banner.PNG

    Door.PNG

    Trim.PNG

    Torch with 3 particle emitters: one for the flame, one for the smoke, and one for the occasional falling ember (all pictured)
    Torch.PNG

    The handle isn't quite finished, but I was just too tired today to finish it. I tried, but just wasn't getting good results. It's mostly done so I figured I would include it.
    Entrance.PNG

    All textures are diffuse only, unlit, with greyscale vertex color gradient overlay. There will be lighting in the final renders!

    I'd like to hear what you guys think! Comments/Critiques always welcome :)
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    I still need to paint in some spots where the chains meet with the cauldron, and probably mess with the highlights around the rim. Not too worried here since it will be engulfed in flames but I'll still touch it up a bit.

    Cauldron.PNG
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Probably not the best metal texture but it's not a centerpiece so I don't feel compelled to spend forever getting it perfect. I might ease up on the pitting across the barrel, its a bit much in retrospect.

    There also appears to be a vertex out of place that's causing a fold in the mesh near the stock (you can see how the cloth abruptly shifts). I'll fix it tomorrow.

    Blunderbuss.PNG

    I decided to get started on a small diorama that will eventually be jam packed with the majority of my assets and hopefully will be interesting as well. Here's what I have so far:

    Unlit with greyscale vertex color overlay

    Diorama1.PNG

    I notice some areas are a bit too bright which is caused by the vertex colors. I still need to tweak those.
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    I'm getting super close to being finished.

    What's left:
    • Texture brazier & vase
    • Revisit various metal textures
    • Maybe texture a crossbow
    • Maybe get around to modeling a quiver of arrows/bolts for the bow/crossbow
    • Design decal for blue hanging banner
    • Tweak bloom effects on camera
    • Tweak particle emitters on brazier flames
    • Tweak vertex colors
    • Animate subtle light flickering for fireplace/torches
    • Animate some rad camera paths
    • Bake higher quality, final version of lightmaps (probably tomorrow as I sleep)

    Lightmapped.PNG
  • Fenyce
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    Fenyce polycounter lvl 11
    Wow, that last one really looks nice!
  • luge
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    luge polycounter lvl 4
    I like a lot of this. the main things bugging me here, are the floor planks, I think the main issue is how short they are. Another thing is, in the anvil and the cauldron, it looks like in spots you are going pure black, I wouldn't necessarily do that, because you can lose some detail when it comes to shadows in the scene from you lighting. thats my opinion.

    Also, I'm glad to see someone else remembers Outlaw Star, hell yeah. I planned on making the Caster Gun at some point myself too. looks pretty good :)
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Fenyce: Thanks!

    luge: Yes, I agree the floor planks are a little short. That's an easy fix! As for the cauldron and anvil, I can assure you there is no black (anywhere in the scene for the matter)! I do have some deep purples and reds that get close; I get uncomfortable if I get too close to blacks or whites while I paint. Thanks for the feedback! :)
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Here's another update on my tavern. Tomorrow I should have final shots of everything.

    Board.PNG

    Weapon+Rack.PNG

    Bow.PNG

    Crossbow.PNG

    Hay.PNG

    Vase.PNG

    Critiques are always welcomed!
  • luge
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    luge polycounter lvl 4
    I'd suggest sharpening of the wood texture for the table, its really blurry right now.
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    luge wrote: »
    I'd suggest sharpening of the wood texture for the table, its really blurry right now.
    Hey, thanks! Yeah I went back to take a look and I guess that was one of the very first assets I textured. It shows!


    Well, I'm done now! Here are a couple shots. The rest can be found at my portfolio Website HERE

    beauty2.jpg

    I made a small diorama to show the modular capacity of my assets:

    diorama.jpg

    Any and all feedback is appreciated, as I will implement it all into my next project!

    Thanks for looking!
  • luge
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    luge polycounter lvl 4
    its looking good, I can't really think of anything to comment on.
  • luge
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    luge polycounter lvl 4
    actually, when you made the potions, the colors are very... flat. so I'd add some more varying hues and maybe even give them an emmissive.
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    luge wrote: »
    actually, when you made the potions, the colors are very... flat. so I'd add some more varying hues and maybe even give them an emmissive.
    Yes, I agree. Quite flat! It does have a subtle emissive but yeah there is no actual detail in what's supposed to be the liquid. I will fix that soon!
  • MessySketch
    Looks good man! I really like the Diorama, reminds me of a house you wonder into in some RPG.
  • zhixson
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    zhixson polycounter lvl 8
    Wow, it's always so cool to see things from start to finish. Very nice!
    That said, I do have a question regarding the painted blue hanging tapestry thing you created: would the wrinkles as they are continue all the way down the main body of the model? It seems like any wrinkles would originate from the two places where it is attached to the chain and taper off to baby butt smoothness soon after.
    Forgive the crappy paintover. I only have access to a touch pad at the moment so I couldn't competently draw anything other than a solid blue color to mask the majority of the wrinkles. Hopefully it still illustrates what I was talking about.
    LPNHpJJ.jpg
    Fantastic work on the scene, man!
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    MessySketch yeah, I had fun making that little diorama. It was a nice experiment to see if I could truncate the environment to something more personal.
    zhixson wrote: »
    Wow, it's always so cool to see things from start to finish. Very nice!
    That said, I do have a question regarding the painted blue hanging tapestry thing you created: would the wrinkles as they are continue all the way down the main body of the model? It seems like any wrinkles would originate from the two places where it is attached to the chain and taper off to baby butt smoothness soon after.
    Forgive the crappy paintover. I only have access to a touch pad at the moment so I couldn't competently draw anything other than a solid blue color to mask the majority of the wrinkles. Hopefully it still illustrates what I was talking about.
    LPNHpJJ.jpg
    Fantastic work on the scene, man!

    Thanks for the paintover! Truth be told, that was probably my first time ever hand painting a cloth texture; it actually took me four or five attempts to get the wrinkles decent enough to consider it a first pass. I did try to look up examples but I couldn't really find any real photos in this exact context, a big long banner pinched at the top in two spots.

    Based on the handful of other critiques I received so far I definitely plan to go back and tweak some stuff here and there, but that's on the backburner right now so I can knock out and catch up on some other projects!
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Bartalon wrote: »
    Well, I'm done now! Here are a couple shots. The rest can be found at my portfolio Website HERE

    beauty2.jpg

    I made a small diorama to show the modular capacity of my assets:

    diorama.jpg

    Any and all feedback is appreciated, as I will implement it all into my next project!

    Thanks for looking!

    Bump! I would really appreciate any other critiques from you guys!
    Full presentation found here http://dennisporter3d.com/tavern.htm
  • CarlK3D
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    CarlK3D polycounter lvl 7
    Looks Sweet. Your Texture quality has come a really long way.
    A few ideas:
    - Do you have an Anti-Aliasing filter applied or the Camera
    - Might look cool with some SSAO to help ground a few objects to there surfaces
    - More Dynamic Lighting perhaps, I notice in areas such as under the stairs are still receiving as much light as under the table, as in the shadows and light intensity are the same
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