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Sculpting a ninja! i need help i am noob

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jksl polycounter lvl 4
Ok so i started a new head! :) gonna make this one a full character and my god i have alot of work to do xD i'm gonna attempt to go off my own concept >< i still have no clue how to do hair if anyone has any tips it's appreciatedCapturecopy.jpgCAPTURE2copy.jpgsd.png

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  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 8
    First off you are way to high a sub-d to get started. Block in the big forms first at very low resolution, then when you have the shapes right start pushing the larger details.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Dimfist wrote: »
    First off you are way to high a sub-d to get started. Block in the big forms first at very low resolution, then when you have the shapes right start pushing the larger details.
    i should mention this is dynameshed not working with subdiv lvls haven't changed the resolution since i turned it on xD
  • Twister3
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    Twister3 polycounter lvl 12
    jksl wrote: »
    i should mention this is dynameshed not working with subdiv lvls haven't changed the resolution since i turned it on xD

    Then pick a lower resolution size and dynamesh again with projection on. Like Dimfist said, at the beginning it isn't very wise to use a crazy high resolution (that is, except you know what you are doing). I don't know what your end goal is, a bust or a whole figure but either way get all the form you need in place first using dynamesh at a resolution low enough to get all the extrusions you need. Then you probably don't need dynamesh anymore because it is a bit limiting and keeping things (body, clothing, hair) seperate can help you in the long run.

    E: Oh and another thing, keeping symmetry on during the blocking in process will help you in the long run. Details like the pimple under the eye are things best done in the latter stages of the sculpting process.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Start the body too, this all needs to work in concert.

    Where's your concept?
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Twister3 wrote: »
    Then pick a lower resolution size and dynamesh again with projection on. Like Dimfist said, at the beginning it isn't very wise to use a crazy high resolution (that is, except you know what you are doing). I don't know what your end goal is, a bust or a whole figure but either way get all the form you need in place first using dynamesh at a resolution low enough to get all the extrusions you need. Then you probably don't need dynamesh anymore because it is a bit limiting and keeping things (body, clothing, hair) seperate can help you in the long run.

    E: Oh and another thing, keeping symmetry on during the blocking in process will help you in the long run. Details like the pimple under the eye are things best done in the latter stages of the sculpting process.

    i honestly have no clue how to use dynamesh was just trying something different and i'm not good with faces this is practice if you look back at my threads..i've greatly improved if i knew how to sculpt eyelids /mouths properly i would :( but this is still a w.i.p only 2 hours into it
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Start the body too, this all needs to work in concert.

    Where's your concept?

    yes i will start the body soon, the concept it's on my sketch pad >< i don't have a scanner or i'd show you ><
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Update sdf.png still very much wip but i'd like to try and replicate hazardous sun stalker body http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/023/8/7/sunstalker_torso_by_hazardousarts-d5shfmd.jpg
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Lower your resolution, it's still too high.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Lower your resolution, it's still too high.

    On the whole thing ;o? i was planning on just retoping it then continue sculpting
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Yes. You need to solve your larger proportion problems before even thinking about sculpting in arreolas.

    And just to save you time, you don't need to signature your WIP screenshots everytime. What's the point of stealing half-way done work and using that?
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Yes. You need to solve your larger proportion problems before even thinking about sculpting in arreolas.

    And just to save you time, you don't need to signature your WIP screenshots everytime. What's the point of stealing half-way done work and using that?
    stealing work? i've been getting helped by a friend on skype what stealing?
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    People usually watermark their work with their name, such as you writing jksl on the WIP images, to prevent those images from being imporoperly used and/or mish mashed with something they did not sign off on.

    What I am asserting here is that you don't need to sign your name on each WIP image, which should save you a couple of seconds.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    People usually watermark their work with their name, such as you writing jksl on the WIP images, to prevent those images from being imporoperly used and/or mish mashed with something they did not sign off on.

    What I am asserting here is that you don't need to sign your name on each WIP image, which should save you a couple of seconds.

    i am trying to learn photoshop as well.. there is a method to the madness i swear
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Keep sculpting at a low-polygonal density making sure your proportions, forms, and gestures are where you exactly need them to be before committing to smaller details like arreolas, clavicles, etc.

    With the last image, once again, that is way too dense. You'll have an easier time moving a large amount of polys with the Move brush if it's all a lower density.

    This is how you can do hair:
    CharlieZbrush.jpg
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Keep sculpting at a low-polygonal density making sure your proportions, forms, and gestures are where you exactly need them to be before committing to smaller details like arreolas, clavicles, etc.

    With the last image, once again, that is way too dense. You'll have an easier time moving a large amount of polys with the Move brush if it's all a lower density.

    This is how you can do hair:
    CharlieZbrush.jpg

    apologies if i said something wrong it's that time of the month a bit sensitive and my englis isn't that great >< i was hoping i could get away with the anatomy cause she will be wearing a dress you won't be able to see
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Oh i don't understand the hair thing ;o but i was hoping for a pony tail i will figure it out hopefully xD
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    You won't be able to get away with a lack of good anatomy since the body determines how the clothing or armor falls onto it.

    The hair is just layered planes, which you repeat and texture using an alpha mask.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    ah ok didn't know
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    sorry no update still trying to figure out this hair planes and how to model clothes :(
  • DougClayton4231
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    DougClayton4231 polycounter lvl 3
    My best advice would be to definitely study some anatomy and watch some speed sculpts of characters on youtube. Get the body as close to your target as possible before worrying about clothing or hair or any other details. Building on your fundamentals is key to making good looking artwork.
  • Yilativ
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    Keep sculpting at a low-polygonal density making sure your proportions, forms, and gestures are where you exactly need them to be before committing to smaller details like arreolas, clavicles, etc.

    With the last image, once again, that is way too dense. You'll have an easier time moving a large amount of polys with the Move brush if it's all a lower density.

    This is how you can do hair:
    CharlieZbrush.jpg

    Just one question, from were you took this image¿
  • Zorro
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    Zorro polycounter lvl 4
    jksl wrote: »
    Update sdf.png still very much wip but i'd like to try and replicate hazardous sun stalker body http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/023/8/7/sunstalker_torso_by_hazardousarts-d5shfmd.jpg

    Looks like a revolting mannequin from Silence of the Lambs. All it needs is Bill to mince in front of a mirror shouting "it puts the subdivisions in the basket!" to be complete.

    If I had to be constructive I would ask you to walk before you can run and avoid subdividing until you're forced to do so.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    My best advice would be to definitely study some anatomy and watch some speed sculpts of characters on youtube. Get the body as close to your target as possible before worrying about clothing or hair or any other details. Building on your fundamentals is key to making good looking artwork.

    the body is where i like it now i changed it just didn't post my main concern now is hair / clothes
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Zorro wrote: »
    Looks like a revolting mannequin from Silence of the Lambs. All it needs is Bill to mince in front of a mirror shouting "it puts the subdivisions in the basket!" to be complete.

    If I had to be constructive I would ask you to walk before you can run and avoid subdividing until you're forced to do so.

    it's my first character.. i am trying my best i do like where she is coming along i apologize :( i am noob i don't go to school for this just trying new things.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    kimono.jpg here is the outfit i'd like to model.
  • Gobliness
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    Gobliness polycounter lvl 4
    Being your first character, it isn't a bad start. There are some good crits here that I think you are overlooking and pushing aside though. You do need to re-work the anatomy and in my personal opinion you might want to even restart from scratch with a model that isn't based off of your own concept. Finding actual photo references of the female figure, even female turnarounds, will benefit you more.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Gobliness wrote: »
    Being your first character, it isn't a bad start. There are some good crits here that I think you are overlooking and pushing aside though. You do need to re-work the anatomy and in my personal opinion you might want to even restart from scratch with a model that isn't based off of your own concept. Finding actual photo references of the female figure, even female turnarounds, will benefit you more.

    I understand where you are coming from it's just that i always wanted to make a character like this haha elegant yet deadly i was going to take a crack at realism on the next sculpt this one is just for learning purposes so i have a grasp when i come to realism as for the anatomy i have redone it i just haven't posted it but i appreciate the kind words :)
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    jksl:

    I really implore that you take Gobliness' feedback into action. Like most manga humans, it is based on a simplified version of real human anatomy. From what I've seen, manga artists and 3D character artists who are good at what they do have interacted with observing and drawing/painting/sculpting what they see of the real human anatomy (be it ideal or real). You're going to be referencing what is essentially an aditional reference to real human anatomy if you're soley relying on the information that concept art is providing you. You'll make more effective art in the future once you get a decent grasp of what the real human body looks like. You'll be able to see what you can exaggerate and or reduce, and know WHY you're doing so instead of "it looks cool."

    This is the time to seize what school would maybe force down your throat by the pressure of grades. Sculpt this with a real human body reference in mind, sculpt and model the clothes out on that human body (after perhaps "stylizing" it to what is needed AFTER the anatomy is perfected to as close to the photo reference as possible.)

    I know you're trying you're best, but what we're imploring you to do is invest in techniques that will make you much stronger, and perhaps faster, as opposed to just brute forcing your way through piece after piece.

    And, just in case, I'd also take care with you punctuation. Some of the way your sentences are written run on into run-on sentences. But this is just my English/grammar feedback coming out.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    jksl:

    I really implore that you take Gobliness' feedback into action. Like most manga humans, it is based on a simplified version of real human anatomy. From what I've seen, manga artists and 3D character artists who are good at what they do have interacted with observing and drawing/painting/sculpting what they see of the real human anatomy (be it ideal or real). You're going to be referencing what is essentially an aditional reference to real human anatomy if you're soley relying on the information that concept art is providing you. You'll make more effective art in the future once you get a decent grasp of what the real human body looks like. You'll be able to see what you can exaggerate and or reduce, and know WHY you're doing so instead of "it looks cool."

    This is the time to seize what school would maybe force down your throat by the pressure of grades. Sculpt this with a real human body reference in mind, sculpt and model the clothes out on that human body (after perhaps "stylizing" it to what is needed AFTER the anatomy is perfected to as close to the photo reference as possible.)

    I know you're trying you're best, but what we're imploring you to do is invest in techniques that will make you much stronger, and perhaps faster, as opposed to just brute forcing your way through piece after piece.

    And, just in case, I'd also take care with you punctuation. Some of the way your sentences are written run on into run-on sentences. But this is just my English/grammar feedback coming out.

    i really appreciate you taking the time to write me this i'm very touched by it :) i agree completely what you are saying here i am looking into doing training courses online to learn haha i'm sorry i'm really not to good at punctuation :\ i put periods in the wrong place and commas it's a nightmare so i just write really really long sentences lol
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 12
    I second the feedback here that you should start over from scratch. It's hurt, I know. I did the same thing. It's like everything else in life, when you first start doing something, it's gonna suck so bad. It's gonna be so crappy. And it's way harder to fix it than to start over. Because most of the time you don't know what you did wrong and so you can't make it right. So it's best not to make mistake in the first place at this point. Later on, you will know how to fix things. Beside, the more you do it, the better you get.

    Also, I'm going to leave this right here. See if you can make a head like this. Just copy it to the best of your ability. Then start over, and try to copy it again from scratch. Rinse n Repeat.
    d6300944f8586bee06b30f6d07231af6.jpg
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    i think i should just make a base for the body and face in maya and continue from there and practice sculpting on the side once i'm completed with making the base mesh
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    You could just make the base mesh in ZBrush. It'll be a lot easier.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    jksl wrote: »
    i really appreciate you taking the time to write me this i'm very touched by it :) i agree completely what you are saying here i am looking into doing training courses online to learn haha i'm sorry i'm really not to good at punctuation :\ i put periods in the wrong place and commas it's a nightmare so i just write really really long sentences lol

    The solution isn't necessarily training courses, it grinds down to you and what you do with the time given to you. Do you spend time hacking away at a piece of art without a solid reference, or do you do so with good human anatomy reference? This is something that is not necessarily tied to a class. You can do this now, by yourself.
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Hey man, every time I see a new thread from you, you get the same general crits.

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124748

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119081

    1 - stop sculpting in such high-res

    2 - Use a reference.

    Each time you agree that you should, but the next posting is the same thing with no reference and too many subdivs. I really think it would help for you to take some of this great advice, it honestly will help you get better much faster than if you continue on like this.
  • Gobliness
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    Gobliness polycounter lvl 4
    I have read through all of these comments and thought about it even more. I think the best option would be to start where most people do. You start out at high subdivisions and don't use proper reference? Don't use a sculpting program, instead force yourself to start from bare bones scratch with a modeling program and use a plane with a reference to model off of. That will most certainly force you into good habits and solve the majority of your problems.

    Good luck and keep at it.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Ok so i made the model in maya with a reference took 2 days ..sad.png
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Well this is orders of magnitude better.

    You have a nutty quality curve. What makes the difference?

    First this: http://imageshack.us/a/img197/3919/sdwe.JPG

    Then this: http://imageshack.us/a/img638/8522/blackcanarywipbywitchul.png

    Done the same exact day.



    And the difference in the above vs. your earlier attempts in this thread are in the same quality gap. Is that just the difference between using refs and not using refs?

    Edit: Also, posting a wireframe would be great so we could see your edgeflow.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    ysalex wrote: »
    Well this is orders of magnitude better.

    You have a nutty quality curve. What makes the difference?

    First this: http://imageshack.us/a/img197/3919/sdwe.JPG

    Then this: http://imageshack.us/a/img638/8522/blackcanarywipbywitchul.png

    Done the same exact day.



    And the difference in the above vs. your earlier attempts in this thread are in the same quality gap. Is that just the difference between using refs and not using refs?

    Edit: Also, posting a wireframe would be great so we could see your edgeflow.
    Oh ok now i get it. the head was made in maya the other one was done in zbrush it's very different :( and i posted wireframe
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    sds.png think i've seen enough naked people to last me a lifetime haha
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    jksl wrote: »
    Oh ok now i get it. the head was made in maya the other one was done in zbrush it's very different :( and i posted wireframe

    Well I think both of those links were done in zbrush. This new one is maya, but still the quality is 10x what you posted before. I was just wondering why the massive up and down in terms of quality, what your opinion on that was.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    ysalex wrote: »
    Well I think both of those links were done in zbrush. This new one is maya, but still the quality is 10x what you posted before. I was just wondering why the massive up and down in terms of quality, what your opinion on that was.

    I brought the black canary head in to do minor details and texture and was attempting hair
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    I'm trying to learn how to make heads in zbrush instead of going into maya and doing it.. i've never completed her as i mentioned my computer died and i didn't have one for 6 months so of course the quality would be different..
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    So that's just the difference between your maya work and your zbrush work? That's a huge difference. Is the basemesh all yours? Really good polyflow.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    ysalex wrote: »
    So that's just the difference between your maya work and your zbrush work? That's a huge difference. Is the basemesh all yours? Really good polyflow.
    Yes i understand maya but trying to get into zbrush :\
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    the base was inspired by SupremeFunk or "Funkybunnies" twilight princess sculpt i really liked the sad face it had
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Well great work on the new mesh.
  • DougClayton4231
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    DougClayton4231 polycounter lvl 3
    You've made huge strides, the difference between the last page and this one is jaw-dropping.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    You've made huge strides, the difference between the last page and this one is jaw-dropping.

    Thank you dear :) now i have to figure out how to do hair and clothes lol
  • Gobliness
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    Gobliness polycounter lvl 4
    This is so much better. Seriously, good job.

    Now you want to practice Z-brush? Export this mesh and take it into Z-brush.

    Edit: You can even make the hair with planes, as someone mentioned earlier, in maya and sub-d it and sculpt on it in Z-brush.

    But you are off to a much better start and to the point where you can start thinking about details like hair.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Ok so i figured out how to do hair i'm excited! i'm working on it atm now to figure out the clothing part lol xD
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