Proportionally speaking your hand should cover your whole face (chin to forehead), obviously there are exceptions in nature but when dealing with something like this it just looks like a mistake, I'd suggest scaling them up, by... Based off that shot of yours maybe a quarter or a third of their current scale.
Nice start on the texture Tits!
And just to throw in on the hand debate. I have freakishly skinny long hands for a female. I've been told this my whole life. And my middle finger only reaches midway between my brow and hairline. But maybe I have a freakishly long face too? haha. I think all girls reading this thread should give input on where there hands come to on their face. Maybe that proportion is for male hands? Now I'm curious.
I promise guys, I will scale those hands up.
just didn't take the time to do any touch up to the model tonight, went straight to texturing because it's so much fun hehe.
Weekend incoming = time to work some more on it
Looking great with the texture. I have serious doubts about the accuracy of scaling a hand to the size of an entire face. It seems like one of those things people say without actually knowing. My hands are big and they only go to just past my eyebrows, my wife's fingers are long and same with hers. It might definitely be true for some people, by my guess is that it's a poor generally rule of thumb.
I would say though that Her hands do look a little small, so some scaling might be needed. I admit I only noticed it after other people pointed it out though.
I agree with ysalex. Like I said my hands don't cover my face completely and supposedly I have really long hands for a girl. My boyfriend's hand only makes it just above his eyebrows as well.
looking awesome tits, but throw a few more tri's in the sweatshirt cuffs, the transition from them to the hand is looking a bit too polygonal atm.
hand scale
Im an ex miniatures guy, we do huge hands cos we have to fit them around overscalled weapons.
For me they are a little small, but I would knock up a quick cylinder the size of a drinks can and drop it next to the hand in max, if it doesn't look odd then leave them alone
Haha this hand thing is so confusing, people don't all seem to agree,
gonna start and resquest very sexy pictures of people's face with their hand on it
Little update,
dunno if it shows but I scale the hand up by 12%, I tried higher but when putting it next to the face it was looking very silly, way too wide.
I did add couple of polygone to the long sleeve shirt border, seth was right and it sure looked kind of edgy compared to the rest of the model.
Little texture update too, don't pay attention to the face just yet, it's still pretty much a flat color
nice texture update. although i think your textures look uniformly desaturated/dirty. it may help make it more interesting to localize areas of grime, dirt etc while keeping some areas more fresh and new.
anyways, i hope you dont mind another paintover from me because images tend to get the point across much easier than words. it might be subtle but i think it helps a lot.
great job ob this, tits, coming along really nicely! The textures are looking really nice so far. My biggest crit is with the lips, i feel there's just too much definition and shape to them, making them more angelina jolie than a small girl. i'd find an image to show what i mean, but i'm pretty sure google image searching "young girls lips" will probably put me on a list i'd rather not be on...
Hey guys, thanks for the comment I'm really glad you guys like it almighty_girThanks dude, that means a lot to me MMas usual, very good critic you gave me. I went back to all my texture and tried to add more contrast/saturation etc etc. I hope it shows, I think it does look better now! Mr_AceI tried to soften up the lips in the normal and in the diffuse, Don't know if it shows, tell me what you think! This is not in cryengine just yet but it will be BrandonLafrance My texture pipeline is quite straightfoward. I mostly work only in photoshop. I work with a lot of layer and a lot of mask. I do a lot of dirt layer in overlay-multiply etc and I really do it over the top, after that I ad a mask, Inverse it and slowly paint the dirt back in with a textured brush etc. for this character I used an occlusion, lightmap bake and cavity map etc, it helps a lot.
Here's a little update on the texture
at the moment I feel like the eyes are not integrated that well into the face, I'm not sure if it's me looking at it for too long or is it the lack of eyelashes or even something else, Any ideas?
The face texture is very wip at the moment too
Hey, Tits, thanks for the breakdown, it will come in handy.
As far as your eyes are concerned, I think maybe (key word) the lower eyelid looks a bit thin and deflated. In my experience, its better to err on the side of think eyelids rather than thin eyelids. Also, don't see a tearduct.
I agree with brandon about the lower eyelids.
Her forehead looks super clean and bright. Needs more dirt and pockmarks.
Would you also consider thicker eyebrows? They are definitely thicker on Ellie from the game.
Hey guys!
Thanks for the comments
I will double check the lower eyelid but I found the thing that was really bugging me about the eyes, they was a little bit too much space between the two eyes. It was really not that bad but once I made the change it really didn't bother me as much. I'll check if giving more volume to the eyelid will helo too.
About the face texture this was like a very fast base texture and barely worked on it on that last render. The eyebrows sure are too small (especially ellie got some pretty thick one!) and i'm working on it at the moment, gonna add the scar too etc.
Little update on the face,
Don't know if you guys can notice but the eye are a tiny bits closer and Personally I think i'm liking her more this way (what dou you think?)
Face is dirtier etc and I just added the scar.
Need to start on those hands and on those hair planes soon, I'm a bit worried about the hair planes hhaha, hope it will go well!
This is beautiful character art, but I'd say I'm not seeing a lot of the likeness in the face. The features here seem very angular, especially around the bridge of the nose and the brow line. I'm not directly comparing, but I remember Ellie's features being much softer. Again, though, technically this is looking excellent.
I've been following your thread for a while and its been great to see your progress. It's looking great. Some minor things that came to mind: the lower eye lids are looking a bit thin. The transition between the lower lid to the cheek, as well as the area under the lower lip to the chin should be softened.
The texture for the face is off to a good start, but I think the freckles and blemishes are a bit too strong and too sharp at the moment. Try making some slightly larger blemishes and blurring/soften them with a lower opacity. Then add some smaller freckles (roughly the size you have now but less of them) with a slightly higher opacity. They're just reading a bit too noisy at the moment.
I also think you should add some more colour variation to the base skin tones. It could just be the lighting but I think the overall skin tone should be slightly lighter as well. I'm sure you have heaps of ref, but here's a close up I found that shows some nice skin texture detail. I hope that helps. Really like seeing how much effort you're putting into this. Keep it up
Amazing stuff, can't wait to see the final result! As afisher & eedobaba7726 pointed out,the face should have softer shapes, but they already covered all the adjustments. Besides that, I love how the textures are coming along. Keep up the good work! I'll keep a close eye on this thread. Btw. did you use polypaint to create base colors for the face and clothing or is it all photoshop? cheers
Hey there guys! eedobaba7726 I'm very sorry you don't see a lot of likeness in her face . I did smooth some of my normal up especially around the eyes and the chin, Hopes you think it look better that way! I'm really trying to make her look-alike but I know it's not perfect. Afisher Thanks a lot for your comment, your critic means a lot to me and I'm glad you liked it so far. I soften the normal map on the chin and I modified the mesh of the face a little bit tonight to give a little bit more volume to the lower eye lid, did some tweaks on the orbit area and a bit on the cheeks too. It's quite subtle tho Not sure it's actually easy to see.
I modified my skin texture, made the blemish softer and removed some of the freckles and give them a little bit more opacity, hope it looks better,
For the color of the skin tone I think the darker look is really lighting related ( I put a flat of the diffuse to show the huge difference) Once again, thankd for your good critic . Rockstar6 Thanks a lot for your comment . The texturing is 95% photoshop, I did use a little bit of 3d coat to dirty up the texture without worrying about the seams etc X³²Lapis thanks!!
Flat render
This is looking great! Only nitpick I have, is that her long sleeves and pants are overly textured imo too much dirt and noise. I Like how her orange t-shirt is dirtied up. As for her face, some sss will help soften it up. Some larger hotter specular on her skin wouldn't hurt either gogogo.
Little update,
started working on the hair. It's not too hard but god this is long to do haha.
I Think the front is slowly getting there but the ponytail part will be remade from scratch I think I really don't like how it turned out.
Oh and I kind of lost the zipper somewhere, I'm gonna put them back in...
One thing that has caught my attention is the eyes, they are looking pretty flat at the moment like they are just spheres. Have you added an outer reflective layer to replicate the cornea bulge?
Also, would it be possible for you to share your current hair texture/UV's please?
I am really interested in seeing this as I am currently working on a female characters hair
Hey guys! Thanks I'm very glad you liked it!
Workflow is very straight forward for the hair. I've been using the same hair plane I did for the high resolution character in zbrush as a base. I did do some modifications once I add the texture and alpha, add a couple of plane but overall it stayed the same.
To do the planes I just tranpose and move them around in zbrush. I did covered that in a video I posted a little bit earlier in the thread.
For the texture I just decide how many different strand I will need for different part of the mesh and start painting them and do their alpha. Then I just unwrapped them one by one and place them around in the UV etc.
Right now the character is in marmoset.
At the moment I am not using a second sphere for the eyes, I will make those adjustement at the end depending of the engine i'm gonna render it in.
Here's a little update on the hair, don't know if it's really showing from the front. I have some space left on my unwrap and it's going to be used to add some smaller strand of hair that I will put around the head to give it more variation.
I remodel all the ponytail part because I really didn't like the hair I had before,
theres somethig about the eyes that bother me , id say tehy look too "artificial" in terms of shape, like you can see they are from a sculpture, they dont look natural , they look "computery" instead of natural , like in this image where the artist pulled the natural look quite well :
Im not very good with words so forgive my weird explanation !
Another point i think could be improved is the hair , it also seems very unaturall and is bringing this fantastic piece down .
Very nice work Tits
I know what Joao means... At the moment she seems to lack eyelashes, but I guess it's planned. Also, some eyelashes shadow on the eye diffuse might help to get a more "natural" look.
Also the forehead might need some hair shadow in the diffuse also.
Keep up the very good work !
Hey guys!
Thanks for the comment, Im sad that you think the hair and eyes is brining the piece down, I'll really try to improve it to make it look better. I realised that I the two close shot I had forgotten to add the oclusion around the eye (wuch is present in the shot with the front and back) I don't know if it might have played a bit in the ''unatural look''. I did realize marmoset was using a sharpen option by default and it was really making the hair even more jaggy etc.
Here's a close up shot at the bigger render with the occlusion in the eye and the softer hair, I think it looks better Imo
No matter what I'm still working on the hair and eyelashes sure will help the case I hope!
I'll render an occlusion pass of the hair on the head
the eyes also seem a tad too far appart in the head, the top eyelid looks a tad too pronounced , thats what stands when i look at it . Dont be discouraged, i commented because i thought this looked great and it would help it a bit since its worth it !
i dont know if you are using this trick but you can use a plane thats the same shape of the eyes and put a alpha replicating the shadowing you would see on real eyes, that usually really helps eliminating the artificial stare
This is looking so cool. I love the attention to detail on the back pack. The spec seems a little high, imo, but I know they are always walking around in the rain so maybe that's on purpose?
I also love the ponytail. I think it worked out nicely. On your hair texture sheet, where did you use the short, fat hair alphas? The two that are third row in from the right?
Do you have any example of what you are saying azkur?
I have an occlusion of the shape of the eye that very subtly occlude the eye texture at the moment. I know in cry engine you can ad a little plane in front of it with an occlusion but i'm not sure how marmoset would support that? Jao Sapiro I aldready made the eyes closer couple of days ago, I tried to put them a little bit closer at first but it really started looking weird (she didn't look really smart haha!) how do you think I could make the eyelid less pronounced? Thanks for the input! KristaW I'm glad you liked it. The spec and gloss map are not done yet, this is just a basic spec I put before as a ''placeholder'' kinda. I was waiting to have a decent looking character in cryengine before starting the spec and gloss. At the moment tho I'm having a lot of trouble making Ellie looks good inside of cryengine, some bugs and the lighting is really not giving her the look I wanted, I might do my first final render in Marmoset until I figure cryengine a bit better...The fat part of the hair texture is use in her neck area. The little part of her between her neck and the ponytail, Maybe only one of those could have been made actually since you don't see that part a lot, I just didn't want it to look too repetitive. Btw if anyone here is good at rendering character in CRYENGINE 3 and is willing to help, hit me up please!
yeah i was just saying to add geo slightly in front of the eye to give that ilusion but in marmoset i doubt it will work well since their alpha is kinda crappy for gradients
Hey Marie, this is looking fantastic so far - the texturing is coming along well!
One thing that stands out to me is the geometry on her face - around her cheekbone, there is a solid/sharp jagged edge there that really sticks out for me, as opposed to the rest of her face where the silhouette is a lot smoother. It seems you have enough geometry there to fix it, so just smooth it out a bit there
other than that, gorgeous work, can't wait to see some shots in cryengine.
Ponytail looks cool! In my opinion she's showing way too much forehead at the moment giving the illusion that it's too large. I would consider bringing the hair over her forehead further down and give it some more curve to fix that.
^^ that has an example of the eye shell for occlusion thing.
I think that your hair should be somewhere between what you have and what you had, maybe keep the diffuse soft and sharpen up the spec and normal to give a little definition to the hair, at the moment it just feels a bit too abstract...I feel your pain with this kind of hair, I had to do the same sort of thing recently.
Great work on the texture so far though, you have set yourself a tough task to get the hair up to the standard of the body, but I think that you are on the right track
Yeah I did follow this tutorial to render my latest character but for some reason I'm having more trouble with this one. I talked to guedin actually yersterday and he give me some advice, will see how it goes
The hair diffuse is not too sharp,not too soft at the moment. I think it looks good, the problem is the way if shows up in Marmoset toolbag, the alpha never looks as soft amd detailed as it really is... One I do a spec and gloss map it will definitly help
About the hair I did some more work on it yersterday but that's right she might have the hair a little bit too far back, i'm gonna check this out tonight. I did some placeholder eyelashes too, I will rework on them too.
Replies
texture is looking good so far, nice work!
-woog
Gonna scale it up tonight haha
And just to throw in on the hand debate. I have freakishly skinny long hands for a female. I've been told this my whole life. And my middle finger only reaches midway between my brow and hairline. But maybe I have a freakishly long face too? haha. I think all girls reading this thread should give input on where there hands come to on their face. Maybe that proportion is for male hands? Now I'm curious.
just didn't take the time to do any touch up to the model tonight, went straight to texturing because it's so much fun hehe.
Weekend incoming = time to work some more on it
I would say though that Her hands do look a little small, so some scaling might be needed. I admit I only noticed it after other people pointed it out though.
hand scale
Im an ex miniatures guy, we do huge hands cos we have to fit them around overscalled weapons.
For me they are a little small, but I would knock up a quick cylinder the size of a drinks can and drop it next to the hand in max, if it doesn't look odd then leave them alone
gonna start and resquest very sexy pictures of people's face with their hand on it
dunno if it shows but I scale the hand up by 12%, I tried higher but when putting it next to the face it was looking very silly, way too wide.
I did add couple of polygone to the long sleeve shirt border, seth was right and it sure looked kind of edgy compared to the rest of the model.
Little texture update too, don't pay attention to the face just yet, it's still pretty much a flat color
anyways, i hope you dont mind another paintover from me because images tend to get the point across much easier than words. it might be subtle but i think it helps a lot.
edit: is this in cryengine?
almighty_girThanks dude, that means a lot to me
MMas usual, very good critic you gave me. I went back to all my texture and tried to add more contrast/saturation etc etc. I hope it shows, I think it does look better now!
Mr_AceI tried to soften up the lips in the normal and in the diffuse, Don't know if it shows, tell me what you think! This is not in cryengine just yet but it will be
BrandonLafrance My texture pipeline is quite straightfoward. I mostly work only in photoshop. I work with a lot of layer and a lot of mask. I do a lot of dirt layer in overlay-multiply etc and I really do it over the top, after that I ad a mask, Inverse it and slowly paint the dirt back in with a textured brush etc. for this character I used an occlusion, lightmap bake and cavity map etc, it helps a lot.
Here's a little update on the texture
at the moment I feel like the eyes are not integrated that well into the face, I'm not sure if it's me looking at it for too long or is it the lack of eyelashes or even something else, Any ideas?
The face texture is very wip at the moment too
As far as your eyes are concerned, I think maybe (key word) the lower eyelid looks a bit thin and deflated. In my experience, its better to err on the side of think eyelids rather than thin eyelids. Also, don't see a tearduct.
For the eyes you could try adding one of those small alpha strip that is above the eye geometry to fake the AO.
Her forehead looks super clean and bright. Needs more dirt and pockmarks.
Would you also consider thicker eyebrows? They are definitely thicker on Ellie from the game.
Thanks for the comments
I will double check the lower eyelid but I found the thing that was really bugging me about the eyes, they was a little bit too much space between the two eyes. It was really not that bad but once I made the change it really didn't bother me as much. I'll check if giving more volume to the eyelid will helo too.
About the face texture this was like a very fast base texture and barely worked on it on that last render. The eyebrows sure are too small (especially ellie got some pretty thick one!) and i'm working on it at the moment, gonna add the scar too etc.
Posting some new updates soon
Don't know if you guys can notice but the eye are a tiny bits closer and Personally I think i'm liking her more this way (what dou you think?)
Face is dirtier etc and I just added the scar.
Need to start on those hands and on those hair planes soon, I'm a bit worried about the hair planes hhaha, hope it will go well!
The texture for the face is off to a good start, but I think the freckles and blemishes are a bit too strong and too sharp at the moment. Try making some slightly larger blemishes and blurring/soften them with a lower opacity. Then add some smaller freckles (roughly the size you have now but less of them) with a slightly higher opacity. They're just reading a bit too noisy at the moment.
I also think you should add some more colour variation to the base skin tones. It could just be the lighting but I think the overall skin tone should be slightly lighter as well. I'm sure you have heaps of ref, but here's a close up I found that shows some nice skin texture detail. I hope that helps. Really like seeing how much effort you're putting into this. Keep it up
eedobaba7726 I'm very sorry you don't see a lot of likeness in her face
Afisher Thanks a lot for your comment, your critic means a lot to me and I'm glad you liked it so far. I soften the normal map on the chin and I modified the mesh of the face a little bit tonight to give a little bit more volume to the lower eye lid, did some tweaks on the orbit area and a bit on the cheeks too. It's quite subtle tho Not sure it's actually easy to see.
I modified my skin texture, made the blemish softer and removed some of the freckles and give them a little bit more opacity, hope it looks better,
For the color of the skin tone I think the darker look is really lighting related ( I put a flat of the diffuse to show the huge difference) Once again, thankd for your good critic
Rockstar6 Thanks a lot for your comment
X³²Lapis thanks!!
Flat render
started working on the hair. It's not too hard but god this is long to do haha.
I Think the front is slowly getting there but the ponytail part will be remade from scratch I think I really don't like how it turned out.
Oh and I kind of lost the zipper somewhere, I'm gonna put them back in...
Keep it up
I would like to ask similar question as ysalex.
One thing that has caught my attention is the eyes, they are looking pretty flat at the moment like they are just spheres. Have you added an outer reflective layer to replicate the cornea bulge?
Also, would it be possible for you to share your current hair texture/UV's please?
I am really interested in seeing this as I am currently working on a female characters hair
Workflow is very straight forward for the hair. I've been using the same hair plane I did for the high resolution character in zbrush as a base. I did do some modifications once I add the texture and alpha, add a couple of plane but overall it stayed the same.
To do the planes I just tranpose and move them around in zbrush. I did covered that in a video I posted a little bit earlier in the thread.
For the texture I just decide how many different strand I will need for different part of the mesh and start painting them and do their alpha. Then I just unwrapped them one by one and place them around in the UV etc.
Right now the character is in marmoset.
At the moment I am not using a second sphere for the eyes, I will make those adjustement at the end depending of the engine i'm gonna render it in.
Here's a little update on the hair, don't know if it's really showing from the front. I have some space left on my unwrap and it's going to be used to add some smaller strand of hair that I will put around the head to give it more variation.
I remodel all the ponytail part because I really didn't like the hair I had before,
Wire in case it can help
Im not very good with words so forgive my weird explanation !
Another point i think could be improved is the hair , it also seems very unaturall and is bringing this fantastic piece down .
But great work overall
I know what Joao means... At the moment she seems to lack eyelashes, but I guess it's planned. Also, some eyelashes shadow on the eye diffuse might help to get a more "natural" look.
Also the forehead might need some hair shadow in the diffuse also.
Keep up the very good work !
Thanks for the comment, Im sad that you think the hair and eyes is brining the piece down, I'll really try to improve it to make it look better. I realised that I the two close shot I had forgotten to add the oclusion around the eye (wuch is present in the shot with the front and back) I don't know if it might have played a bit in the ''unatural look''. I did realize marmoset was using a sharpen option by default and it was really making the hair even more jaggy etc.
Here's a close up shot at the bigger render with the occlusion in the eye and the softer hair, I think it looks better Imo
No matter what I'm still working on the hair and eyelashes sure will help the case I hope!
I'll render an occlusion pass of the hair on the head
I also love the ponytail. I think it worked out nicely. On your hair texture sheet, where did you use the short, fat hair alphas? The two that are third row in from the right?
I have an occlusion of the shape of the eye that very subtly occlude the eye texture at the moment. I know in cry engine you can ad a little plane in front of it with an occlusion but i'm not sure how marmoset would support that?
Jao Sapiro I aldready made the eyes closer couple of days ago, I tried to put them a little bit closer at first but it really started looking weird (she didn't look really smart haha!) how do you think I could make the eyelid less pronounced? Thanks for the input!
KristaW I'm glad you liked it. The spec and gloss map are not done yet, this is just a basic spec I put before as a ''placeholder'' kinda. I was waiting to have a decent looking character in cryengine before starting the spec and gloss. At the moment tho I'm having a lot of trouble making Ellie looks good inside of cryengine, some bugs and the lighting is really not giving her the look I wanted, I might do my first final render in Marmoset until I figure cryengine a bit better...The fat part of the hair texture is use in her neck area. The little part of her between her neck and the ponytail, Maybe only one of those could have been made actually since you don't see that part a lot, I just didn't want it to look too repetitive.
Btw if anyone here is good at rendering character in CRYENGINE 3 and is willing to help, hit me up please!
Their eye shader supports it really well
One thing that stands out to me is the geometry on her face - around her cheekbone, there is a solid/sharp jagged edge there that really sticks out for me, as opposed to the rest of her face where the silhouette is a lot smoother. It seems you have enough geometry there to fix it, so just smooth it out a bit there
other than that, gorgeous work, can't wait to see some shots in cryengine.
Have you seen the brilliant Guedin's Cryengine tutorials? Haven't watched them myself but i would start there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_yjt9VJKDXs
Ponytail looks cool! In my opinion she's showing way too much forehead at the moment giving the illusion that it's too large. I would consider bringing the hair over her forehead further down and give it some more curve to fix that.
Adam Fishers character tut
^^ that has an example of the eye shell for occlusion thing.
I think that your hair should be somewhere between what you have and what you had, maybe keep the diffuse soft and sharpen up the spec and normal to give a little definition to the hair, at the moment it just feels a bit too abstract...I feel your pain with this kind of hair, I had to do the same sort of thing recently.
Great work on the texture so far though, you have set yourself a tough task to get the hair up to the standard of the body, but I think that you are on the right track
Yeah I did follow this tutorial to render my latest character but for some reason I'm having more trouble with this one. I talked to guedin actually yersterday and he give me some advice, will see how it goes
The hair diffuse is not too sharp,not too soft at the moment. I think it looks good, the problem is the way if shows up in Marmoset toolbag, the alpha never looks as soft amd detailed as it really is... One I do a spec and gloss map it will definitly help
About the hair I did some more work on it yersterday but that's right she might have the hair a little bit too far back, i'm gonna check this out tonight. I did some placeholder eyelashes too, I will rework on them too.