Female Knight
polycounter lvl 9
Hi,
This is my latest character. I wanted to create a character I could showcase in my portfolio.
I hope you like it!
Also, I'm looking for work in Montreal.
This is my latest character. I wanted to create a character I could showcase in my portfolio.
I hope you like it!
Also, I'm looking for work in Montreal.
Replies
I'm not convinced by the normal maps either, at least in terms transitions between skin and leather, the leather looks far too thin.
Is it better?
On a more serious note, I think the face look really great and fairly real, and the the rest of her feels a bit "plasticcy", comparatively.
Fine job on the modelling. The face and hair are really, really sweet. I feel like the body could benefit from a few more polys, but it's sculpted well enough. Her butt's a little small, but that's just personal taste I suppose.
I'm in Montreal too. You're not a Dawson student/grad, are you?
This is probably one of the most stupid things ive seen in a long while, if you where just starting of, I would understand, but you clearly have both modeling and sculpting skills att a high level. the face looks great, the anamtomy is good and everything, but that armor design is just retarded.
what you are showing here is a girl with some sort of leather jacket, that she has pulled up over her breast, like shes flashing them, its kind of insulting to women and it dosnt even look comfortable.
The so called breatplate isnt even attached to her body, she just balances it on top of her chest by leaning backwards.
you really have tallent, dont waste it on some half assed design you did without looking at any referenses.
again, im sorry if I sound like a jerk, I really like the rest of this modell and I think you should keep working on it, but it really needs re-thinking in some places.
Overall pretty promising, you should post your sculpt along with it.
Medicine: The texture work needs leveling up a couple of times. There's an overall vibe of monotony, not only in diffuse detail and colour variation but also you would do well to sit down and do some referencing against what other texture artists have done and experiment with what works for specular maps across different surfaces and materials. I mean both with colour and intensity. You don't seem to have any ambient occlusion happening at all, it's a good thing to keep it subtle but there's none separating objects i.e. the straps from the torso. Again that takes some experimenting to see what colour works well for shadowing, don't be lazy and slap a grey scale ao across everything for your portfolio piece.
It looks like you have some inverted normals dotted around? The straps going around the calf and forearm for example.
You could make better use of the uv space, things like the forearms/hands could easily be mirrored giving you extra space. Everything is cramped up on the body uv's, you need more padding or it will bleed. Personally not a fan of juggling and rotating everything around like you have to maximise uv's, but hey some like it.
The poly distribution is off, you have so many polys in the face, and then as soon as you get to the neck its crumpling badly and giving you some nasty shading. You could probably improve it some with refining the skin weighting there.
Completely agree with lotet I'm afraid, again no one wants to sound like an ass or put you down because yo do have some serious skill and are very talented.
However the design of the armour could be improved and made more practical. Usually I find that the best designs are the ones that look as though they would work in real life.
I think you might want to go back to the sculpting stage and think of some better armor solutions, I think you can achieve the look you wanted with just some little design changes
DarkKni9hT - Thanks! I'll add straps to the breast plate. I studied in New Brunswick at a community college and moved here for work.
lotet - "I dont wanna sond like a jerk, that is not my intention att all". Oh my, the irony! If that was the case, why would you say "one of the most stupid things ive seen" and "half assed design"?
The idea of forums like this one is to be constructive. Not to demolish someone's spirit. Can you tell me how "one of the most stupid things ive seen" is being helpful to me? There is always a way to reply without sounding like a "jerk" but you surely did not put any effort in that.
The leather top isn't a jacket pulled over her breast. If it was, there would be a huge bulge above her breast with lots of folds. In fact, that cloth piece was physically simulated so I had to intentionally make the front part of the pattern narrow to achieve the effect I was looking for. So no, she's not "flashing" like you're fantasizing.
"insulting to women"? I mean, really? Have you ever looked at any other CG character besides mine? I could find you tones of much worse example but for some reason, I don't feel like putting the effort in that. Showing a bit of skin does not mean it's degrading to women. And for some reason I can't possibly imagine you caring for women's image.
Sorry if you think this is a "half assed design". I'll admit I'm not the best character designer. In fact, I usually always created already existing characters and objects without using any of my creativity. It made for a very boring portfolio. That's when I decided I was going to risk being more creative and practice to eventually improve so my portfolio becomes more interesting. If I really took comments like yours seriously I would go back to making boring projects and would never evolve in character design.
firestarter - Thanks! I'll try to have more color changes to "pop-out" some parts. The ambient occlusion at the moment is simply grey scale with a multiply for most parts. For the skin I changed it to red so it would simulate a bit of sss. Are you saying I should use another filter than multiply? Or that I should have the AO colored to go along the leather, metal, etc?
I don't think the normal map is flipped. If it was, it would show up across the whole model. The straps are very tight against the model so It might look a bit 2D.
The UVs are very close and I got some problems with texture bleeding when I zoomed out. I did some fixing in the textures and I'm not getting the problem anymore. I'm too fare into the project to go back but I'll be more careful next project.
I'll have to redo the head topology.
Boozebeard - Noted
ATaylor - Some of the answer can be found in my reply to lotet. Some of the designs found on Final fantasy games are super unpractical suits on realistic looking characters. Also, I am NOT comparing the quality designs on FF to mine!! hehe
you are right, I should have used my words better, I dont really have any excuse for it but i hope you will forgive me, im sorry, ive had a bad day. il try to rephrase myself in a more constructive way.
The leather top isn't a jacket pulled over her breast. If it was, there would be a huge bulge above her breast with lots of folds. In fact, that cloth piece was physically simulated so I had to intentionally make the front part of the pattern narrow to achieve the effect I was looking for.
ok, cool, didnt know you simmulated that, in any case, it still LOOKS like its pulled up in my opinion, like it was desiged "pulled up" from the start. I think the reason is that her breast are kinda popping out under the cloth. If i whould have designed that jacket I whould either have extended the fabric a bit more or removed parts of it, Right now its in some wierd spot inbetween.
"insulting to women"? I mean, really? Have you ever looked at any other CG character besides mine? I could find you tones of much worse example but for some reason, I don't feel like putting the effort in that. Showing a bit of skin does not mean it's degrading to women. And for some reason I can't possibly imagine you caring for women's image.
I agree that alot of stuff out there is wayy more insaulting that this will ever be. but that comment mostly relates back to my point of her "flashing". I dont know, maybe I have a twisted mind and if no one else think the top is wierd Il rest my case.:)
Sorry if you think this is a "half assed design". I'll admit I'm not the best character designer. In fact, I usually always created already existing characters and objects without using any of my creativity. It made for a very boring portfolio. That's when I decided I was going to risk being more creative and practice to eventually improve so my portfolio becomes more interesting. If I really took comments like yours seriously I would go back to making boring projects and would never evolve in character design.
well I hope you dont listen to me then xD cause I defenetly think you should do more original work
lotet - I have to say I really overreacted to your post. It's just that I've been out of work for a very long time and I was creating this project in the hopes of being noticed by companies. After seeing I was guetting more negative feedback than positive ones, I couln't help but wonder if employers who look at my portfolio also have more negative remarks than positive ones. When I red your post it sort of overwhelmed me.
I would appreciate much more if this kind of work would use real references, of real clothing and armour, that are very facinating and reached a very high level of complexity during its time.
As I said, your technique is outstanding, and the anatomy and face is amazing. But you should add to this some studies of real armour and try to get inspiration that way.
While we are at it, I would also like to add, she is very pretty. Is that really necessary? Maybe she would be a good swordsman (swordswoman?), but not be as lucky to be pretty as well? That is also something I think the industry could change, not all girls have to be pretty, but realistic; yes. This is the best part of this work, the face looks really realistic. Would be cool to see realistic but not always fashion model faces
1. due to the design of the armour, from this angle it reads as though the ribcage just juts inward suddenly for no reason. i'd look at changing your background colour, or the colour of the armour to something less neutral.
2. you need to make the leather chapps way more interesting man, they're just really boxy and ugly right now. if they have enough material for all of those folds and creases then you should really have some kind of impression from the belts holding it in tight.
3. think about the shape of her legs under the leather, looking at the rest of her body she has these treetrunk straight up and down legs, rather than the curvy toned ones she should really have.
4. not listed, but i'd try to make the textures less noisy and have a little more contrast, the skintone just looks really bland and boring, it's right up there in the uncanny valley area. the metal really smacks of renderclouds overlays in the specular, try playing around with some more colour in the spec and some actual meaningful details. the leather is looking better now but could do with a little more colour variation and a little more detailing. try to desaturate the areas that are scuffed a tad, scuffed leather tends to grey out over time.
Also:
1) I am not entirely convinced about the ribcage, is that anatomy really correct? Maybe it is.
2) Her butt-cheeks looks a bit flat, but maybe that is a good thing, not abnormal and maybe I am thinking to much about what is normal. She can simply have a flat butt.
3) The straps under her ribcage, what are they for? And would they not slide down?
4) The pants look really tight. Either they are of modern stretch material, or they are out of leather and very uncomfortable.
5) I am not sure about those shoes for a fighter. Just a thought.
This design does look little funky though. It is nice to do your own designs from time to time, but with this kind of subject matter I think you would be best off finding some pro-concept art to work from in the future.
I like this piece though, and I think you've done a very good job of capturing a pretty face. The silhouette is a little boring to me, and I think it would benefit from a more obvious separation between the armor/leather and her skin The color of the leather may look better with a bit more variation as well.
True all that, and there is some of that (arguing moot points) going on here. I, myself was not arguing the titilation factor of this particular armor, but rather it's impossibility. Unless there is some sort of medieval crazy glue I'm unaware of, that breastplate would just plain fall off. Guy wants to make a sexy/sleazy/whatever armor, that's his choice, but it better at least work physically.
The leather looks freaking great but I agree that the spec needs some work, it's not doing the rest of it justice.
Gir is right about the rib cage, right now it's sitting in her stomach - Armour or not, that needs to move.
Also - the transition from chest to breast above her breast plate looks really drastic, try tightening the leather over them and add a strap onto the breast plate so it has something holding it up.
I know lots of guys are bashing you for it but just think, if all these guys are pointing it out chances are someone looking over your portfolio in a studio will too.
It won't take two secs to throw an upper strap on it.
Her butt could be pulled out a little more, check out some female athletes.
Hope this helped. Looking forward to seeing the updates!
(Just noticed the engravings on the leather straps - cool.)
I think the biggest problem here tbh isn't the fact that it is impractical or practical, neither is it about accuracy, or being sexy or not. In my eyes, its because the design regardless of the intention, lacks a 'cool' factor. And no small tweaks here and there will really fix that.
Dont take what these people are saying about not liking your design - to heart, people will question your design decisions forever regardless of how good you are when your dealing with females, and especially so when your trying to make them sexy. Having worked in an MMO and seen one through Alpha / Beta and Launch I've witnessed hundreds of players arguing for and againts all kinds of armors designs for females. Its exactly as Shinuku says, its a really tired argument that never ever gets solved. It's purely a matter of taste and aesthetics and *everyones* different, and while your pleasing one crowd your offending another.
You have 3 distinct bands of flesh exposed and they are fairly straight / boring horizontal areas, neatly dividing your character up. Take your image, and paint over the thigh flesh with leather in photoshop super quickly- ie turn it into leather pants - then zoom out. I bet the character will feel *very* different with JUST that alteration.
Then you can keep the small cropped top, but i would probably not have it pulled up letting her boobs out, not because its sexy or forced, but because it just doesnt look cool. So paint those over too - Feeling a tonne different now.
A good trick I use is to shrink your image down to maybe 400 - 500 high in Photoshop then squint your eyes if something jumps out at you as too contrasty, or too horizontal division - Try to make it more interesting.
I would give her a shoulder Pauldron ( just 1 ) to match the other metal bits too.
P.S Interesting & Cool doesnt necessarily mean realistic. Have fun with the shapes man
Cool work though, her face is great; a few tweaks could turn a lot of the negative comments into positives for sure.
This is looking like a pretty sweet piece, and IMHO, a few small changes could really make this a solid piece!
1. The top and backs of her garters are very interesting, phenomenal form. Personally, the differences between the form of those pieces and the shorts/ fronts of garters are very clash; resculpting the shorts and adding some tension folds and stitching could really help them blend. As for the "stockings" judging from the back vie, the body of them does not seem overly tight, once again, creases in the leather, especially around the contact with the shin guards could really make it stick with the overall image.
2. Another So pass seems in order. Personally, your transitions between materials just are not reading well to me, I think a blurred AO pass at low strength would really make these seperations pop, maybe a cavity map is in order on the leather pieces as well.
3. IMHO, your metals are far too bright, it looks too bright even for steel, darkening the metals would really help pull it together, in my eye at least.
In regards to the breastplate, while it doesn't appeal to me personally, slipping another plate, or extending the current underneath the top would look really cool!
The piece is looking awesome mate, keep at it!
Again, I'm not saying you can't keep the armor, but it could do with some more thought.
I had started playing around with the clothing in Marvelous Designer and I kept at it. I'm now doing in another direction.
Yeah because anime/manga is the best place to look for good design... ;p This armor is ridiculous. Thick metal plates all over her... except boobs and belly! It is obnoxious. Tastes may differ but you can't say this one is ok... it just isn't.
I like what you have now. The thing is she looks like combination of regular 'jeans and sweater woman' with a bit of armor parts. I don't say its bad. I find it interesting actually.
I second the notation that the anime armor is silly. However I have seen some interesting designs before in anime, that one is not an example though.
MrOneTwo - Thanks. It's not gonna be jeans of course. I'll make some leather texture for it.
lotet - Thanks man! Leather!
SUPAVISI - Thanks.
Shiniku - I'm actually not focusing on recreating a suit from an exact era.
Hey, do you guys know a good website for image hosting? I'm using photobucket but it shrinks my images SSSSSOOOOO small it's stupid!
Here's an update. I still have lots of work to do on the modeling. Everytime I re-simulate some cloth parts, I have to re-ajust in ZBrush.
Huge credit to you for taking another stab at her design. I'm completely digging the new clothing. The first had mentioned issues that I agreed with. Cheers and great progress can't wait to see more!
Here's a bigger picture.
I am happy with the direction the new armor is going in, but something still upsets me. I'm just a newbie at this, I don't even model anymore, but something one of my Fine Art professors (for an art foundation class) used to tell me is; "Never change your art for someone else". Although he was talking in the context of Fine Art or what others may call modern art/post-modernism, I think his point still applies. When he realized I wanted to be a concept artist/illustrator, he began to drill this into my head even more. "Never create art for other people, always do it for yourself. Your best work is personal."
There was a bit of controversy caused on campus from my final project which involved a lot of nudity. It was on sex and homosexuality. When I told him about the project, he laughed and said, "Good art always hurts someone."
I personally do not like how the character looked, and there are many games that have females armor that I don't enjoy; however, that doesn't mean it's any less than anything else. If you truly enjoy creating designs like this, I think you shouldn't change your direction because you've upset someone.
As my painting professor says, "You're intuition is always right."
Hello Tairii. what you are saying is very true if you make ART. Concept art or 3D modeling is NOT ART. you make things for a client, not yourself, you make things for the entertaintment industry, not yourself. If your boss or client tells you to change something that is exacly what you should do since you make "art" for THEM. Saying you should do something your own way can even hurt an aspiring artist by encouraging their mistakes and flaws. Always change your "art" for clients.
PS: I already made one flamewar in this thread and I dont want to do it again, if ppl want to discuss if the entertaintment industry is doing art or not we can do that elseware, like in a new thread not in pimping n previews
so... the sistine chapel ceiling and tapestries aren't art? michaelangelo wasn't an artist because he was commissioned to do work on the chapels behalf and to their specification?
just about any portrait ever, shouldn't be considered art because they were made for a client and not for the artist themselves?
that ridiculous notion aside... i would have preferred if you kept the original design but just refined and polished it some more.
Just wanted to say I that it looks great! I really love the bake it looks really clean.
Very nice work on that! I saw you change your whole design, I liked the first one too, except that the boobies design looks really uncomfortable (and my name is tits right, I know what i'm talking about), I wont go into that sexist or whatever kind of argument, i don't like them. The new design is very cool too, can't wait to see more!
Although I changed the design because of the criticism I was getting, the new design is still very much my own. Nobody was looking over my shoulder while I was creating it. And now that I'm comparing with the older version, I have to admit I'm very proud of what the new one looks like!
lotet - I also understand what you mean. When you work in a video game company, you're working for the shareholders. It's all about creating a game fast and make tones of money for them. That part is certainly not art!
This being said, I think saying "concept art or 3D modeling is not art" goes too far. My opinion/definition of ART is:
-using your creativity
-loving what you do
Although in a company you are told to model the design of another, the way you achieve the look is entirely up to you. You still get to be creative in the process. Therefor, I think 3D modeling is still art.
That's just my very own opinion amongst thousand others.
tonberry - Thank you so much! I did find medieval references but I'm not really focusing on making some sort of knight of a certain era. I'm just trying to make a believable character with lots of "things" on it.
AtticusMars - I agree but you could have said "I think you're both a little right" hehe
Tits - Thank you!! This looks like a super clean bake but it's actually still the high res. I'm at about 2.5 million poly at the moment. I'm gonna start the low res soon and also test out the DDO plugin for photoshop. If you haven't seen it, take a look!
http://quixel.se/ddo/
My man-boobs aren't big enough to understand if it would be uncomfortable or not so I'll just have to take your word for it.
Very nice render then, tricked me
I'm not much about plugins either but after I saw what it can do, I couldn't resist!
Salut!