Why having Connections doesn´t help you get a Job
greentooth
So let me clarify that first.
technically, having connections does help you get a job.
but at the same time it doesn´t, because you know that.
so what benefit does it have for you that you know you have connections to secure a job in the future?
NONE
it gives you the illusion of security,
and security will make you lazy.
what you should be aware of is that you will never ever get a job because you were recommendet by someone, or you know someone at the studio you are applying for.
you will get a job based on your skill mainly.
what could happen is that you beat other competitors in the end because of your connection.
but you wouldn´t even have gotten to that point if it weren´t for your skills in the first place.
i am writing this, because i have heard and read this countless times before.
hell, i think if i would base its importance on the number of times i have heard it, making friends would be on the same level as increasing my art-skills.
so please stop telling people -especially newcommers- this shit if you realy want to help them.
seriously "don´t be an asshole" is sort of the first advice anyone gets in live, so i don´t think there is a reason to tell this over and over again to people.
--TL;DR--
you don´t get any benefits from knowing that for some reason it might be easier for you to get a job, then for anyone else.
there are only downsides to this way of thinking so stop teaching it to people.
technically, having connections does help you get a job.
but at the same time it doesn´t, because you know that.
so what benefit does it have for you that you know you have connections to secure a job in the future?
NONE
it gives you the illusion of security,
and security will make you lazy.
what you should be aware of is that you will never ever get a job because you were recommendet by someone, or you know someone at the studio you are applying for.
you will get a job based on your skill mainly.
what could happen is that you beat other competitors in the end because of your connection.
but you wouldn´t even have gotten to that point if it weren´t for your skills in the first place.
i am writing this, because i have heard and read this countless times before.
hell, i think if i would base its importance on the number of times i have heard it, making friends would be on the same level as increasing my art-skills.
so please stop telling people -especially newcommers- this shit if you realy want to help them.
seriously "don´t be an asshole" is sort of the first advice anyone gets in live, so i don´t think there is a reason to tell this over and over again to people.
--TL;DR--
you don´t get any benefits from knowing that for some reason it might be easier for you to get a job, then for anyone else.
there are only downsides to this way of thinking so stop teaching it to people.
Replies
But what connections can do for you is giving you a better picture of what a particular studio is looking for when positions are open. You can get an inside view of the studio which other people without connections do not have. This alone can give you an edge because you can tailor your resume and folio better towards that position.
And it can also help you to find out at which place you actually don't want to apply at all
Furthermore... what is wrong with making connections? How does this hurt you? I don't really see a down side to making connections.
But they will get you opportunities to get the job
Will knowing someone in a company guarantee a job? Certainly not. Will it help? It certainly may. Goeddy, I think that is your main argument. However the way you phrase your argument in your original post makes it seem like you are talking nonsense. You say things like "what you should be aware of is that you will never ever get a job because you were recommendet by someone, or you know someone at the studio you are applying for." or "Why having Connections doesn´t help you get a Job"... that's rubbish.
Similarly being able to fit in and interact with the people at a studio doesn't guarantee a job, but it sure does help, and in many cases is more important to studios than overall skill level.
Also depending on how high up your connections are, fuck yeah you can get the job without being totally qualified, it happens all the time for management positions.
As far as someone being lazy because they think it might be easier for them to get a job. I have never encountered anyone who thought like this, or anyone who told other people to think like this. If anything it is the opposite, with the person with connections trying harder because they don't want to make their connections look bad for recommending them.
I've had a few paid in-house studio gigs, and only ever had to interview for one of them. Hell, I've been woken up by phone calls out of the blue asking me to come in the next day. Thats not random, it happened cause someone recommended me.
I've also then gone on to recommend friends of mine in these jobs, and they've been hired that way too.
This.
If you (and others like this - specifically Ninja's thread of half truths) are going to deliver personal opinions as facts at least back it up with working examples. Hazardous does it best - http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1794475&postcount=46
Based on my personal experience, you're dead wrong. If anything, you are misinterpreting someone meaning "Making connections is valuable in the industry because it helps put a face to the name" for "Dude, omg, since I met you at an IGDA meeting - I can totally get you in even with no skill." No company would ever do that. They will however, and speaking from personal experience, pay attention to your portfolio if your college roommate personally recommends you and puts your portfolio in their inbox - then you get the art test - then you do the interviews - then you get the job.
Believe it or not, personality is a big factor in being hired. If you have two candidates and all things are equal, but one of the candidates happens to run in the same circles as one of the team members - don't you think that is a great advantage to have?
AND - why would you NOT tell people fresh to the industry that they should network? That's important in way more industries than just our tiny one - you need to get out there. You need to be relevant and in people's minds. It's not a replacement for qualifications but it definitely is a great additional to your skillset.
You seem to think that having connections and having skill are 2 mutually exclusive concepts. You are absolutely wrong.
Certainly having connections alone wont get you a job...I think most people realize this.
No. Networking is crucial. It really is as important as being good at your craft, whether you like it or not. To ignore the importance of networking is dumb...not just in this industry, but every industry.
The problem with the OP's post it generalizes too much, OP claims that relying on networking will make you lazy and comfortable and we should stop telling artists this based on this premise. Just like everything in life there is no absolute truths and making sweeping statements will only open you to ridicule. Personally I've gotten just about every job I've landed on my own, except for one. I've also lost jobs to other artists who I knew I was better then and worked much harder then but they had a good friend who got them in. When it comes to helping someone you know find a job, the person doesn't have to be a friend of mine but as long as I like them and they have ability I will do my best to help them, sadly not everyone I've known goes by these standards and in my experience I have learned that when it comes to landing a job through networking people are as disappointing and unreliable as everything in life.
So try to be friendly,network but always keep your work up to snuff because sometimes every little factor makes the difference.
No guarantees though, I've also had a personal recommendation and still been passed over for interview.
I think you'd have to be pretty naive to think connections give you security and that you don't have to improve your skills.
While its obvious that having a strong portfolio, etc is hugely important and that getting the job is still down to your own ability. I can't stress enough how much having a "connection" and having that "inside knowledge" helped me get the jobs.
People who are 'connected' or have 'connections' will have an advantage over those who do not but it can also work against you if people dislike you even just on forums.
Having a network of connections means people know what you're like as a person and even if you rubbed one person up the wrong way then there are still ten others who will vouch for you and that's why connections matter.
But yeah, the games industry is ruthless and nothing should ever be taken for granted.
well this got outa hand quickly^^
so let me clarify some stuff first before i go into the details.
this thread is not about whether networking helps you get a job.
it is about knowing you may get a job easier then everyone else, wich may actualy be true but wont help you in of itself.
so.... i have gotten jobs only knowing about them through connections. and i´ve gotten jobs just by applying on my own.
why i chose such a controversial headline then? well obviously because the full statement would have been to long for the headline.
what brought me to this conclusion, that is in no way the only thruth but just my way of seeing things, is this:
i have some friends currently working in the industry and some that have had some-to no experience.
i realized that an increasing number of them thought they could get a job easier because they know people at the studio they are applying for.
so making connections is in no way wrong, but it should be in no way the focus for an artist right?
now for you vets training your skills is a no-brainer and keeping your connections alive can be realy important.
but i see this frequently beeing taught to newcommers, when i think it is too early for them to care about this stuff, since getting their skill level up should be their first and only priority.
another thing you might call "evidence" is; here in germany there are countless of networking events, targeted at students and other people who want to break into the industry.
i´ve been to some and had my share of "networking" there, but those people there won´t remember your name the next day, unless your folio realy blew them away (if you managed to show it to them).
so you kinda get the feeling like they exist for the main purpose of ripping people off, just like those expensive artschools that pump out graduates equal to the actual working force of the german games industry every year.
"What is with this new trend of sweeping statement essay threads?"
well i just felt like talking about it :P
so i am actaully glad that a lot of people dissagree with me, just a way of gathering more oppinions and then drawing my own conclusion in the end.
Networking isn't just meeting people and saying 'hey! here's my portfolio!' - if this is the kind of 'networking' you've been doing, then you'll probably struggle to get far.
Networking is talking to people, working with people, helping people and generally making friends. Be active and help people on forums, help people out with their hobbyist projects, participate in game jams, do research and share your results or workflow. That's meaningful networking you can do outside of the established office environment.
Actually, having connections does indeed HELP you get a job. But it doesn't GET you the job. You still have to have the portfolio, and you still have to interview well. But, having people vouche for you definitely helps, and can sometimes veto a shitty interview if you have 5 guys saying no no. hes a great worker, and he`ll get along with everyone. Cause after all, thats all interviewers are looking for. Can you do the work? Will you fit in with the team? So thread title is false.
I got my job through a friend who contacted me asking if I wanted a job. I still had to interview, but i didnt apply myself out of the blue.
But, I do get what you're saying. Some people may get a connection in a large studio and get lazy thinking they are garenteed a job. Younger students, especially.
If you're a 6 and a 3 applies you will probably lose the job, if not you might land it.
- God like Artists + Connections + Humble Attitude = Hired.
- God like Artists - Connections + Humble Attitude = possible job.
- God like Artists + Connections - Humble Attitude = possible job, but shaky.
- Good Artist + Connections + Humble Attitude = possible job.
- Good artist - Connections + Humble Attitude = possible job.
- God like Artists - Connections - Humble Attitude = possible job, but shaky.
- Good artist - Connections + Humble Attitude = possible job.
- Good artist + Connections - Humble Attitude = possible job, but shaky.
- Decent artist + Connections + Humble Attitude = possible job.
- Decent artist - Connections + Humble Attitude = possible job.
- Good artist - Connections - Humble Attitude = possible job, but unlikely.
- Decent Artists + Connections - Humble Attitude = possible job, but unlikely.
- Decent Artists - Connections - Humble Attitude = possible job, but unlikely.
- Bad artist + Connections + Humble Attitude = slim possibility... so so slim.
- Bad artist + Connections - Humble Attitude = no chance.
- Bad artist - Connections - Humble Attitude = no chance.
Anyone minus a humble attitude is in grave danger of blowing it. The more talent the artists has the more people are willing to put up with a poor attitude, especially if their job has them relatively isolated. But they are not likely to progress very far. Also very likely to get cut lose when layoffs hit.The bigger the studio the higher the chances of more 1-4's applying for the job.
The smaller the studio the less likely 1-4's will apply and it opens it up a bit to people in the 3-7.
People in the 12-16 categories are going to go through a lot of rejection, but they can work on all of the categories and improve their chances, they aren't locked in.
As the industry shrinks the pool of talent grows bigger and studios can be more choosy. As it grows places need to fill jobs and dive a little deeper into the talent pool because most of the cream (that hasn't spoiled) has already been skimmed.
Based on what I've seen going on with people moving through the industry over the years, good art and a humble attitude, build good connections, naturally.
Make good art, share it, don't be a dick and the connections will follow and so will the jobs.
Pretty much.
Also, +1 to Gav's post.
Also #2, every job I've ever gotten has been through some sort of connection, as has virtually everyone I've hired/helped get hired.
I love working with past coworkers (who are awesome), and friends, (who are awesome). I would gladly work with someone I know and get along with than randoms. That said I've met some great randoms at places too that are now friends.
I've been in this situation; had friends of mine who, let's say, just wouldn't have been at the level required, asking me to get them an in. I just say that I'll pass on their portfolio link to the art lead and if something comes up I'll let them know. Nicest way to put it.
Humble is key here. You never see crazy talented artists like EQ, Crazyfool, Bobo, Lonewolf etc. bragging, or putting others down, or asking people for website links to prove they are worthy to give crits, or giving big speeches; but there is this disturbing trend of ego creeping around mid to entry level artists these days. Shame.
C'mon man never pass up the chance to use a meme!!
Here;
It's ok to have the occasional brainfart Goeddy, we all do it...
Mark hit it right on the head. Being around artists that are not humble is just not very nice to be around.
Sad truth is this, our entire career is built on relationships and working with one another, even no talent people wo are hard workers (me) can get work if they are good in a team/do there part vs super talent who cant talk/communicate/network to even have that connection to begin with.
Man artists are dumb , da hell ;p
It doesn't guarantee you a job. But fuck if it doesn't help.
Friends will get asked about job opportunities before a company puts any effort or money into recruiting for a position, or openings on websites.
Having someone as a "connection" on linkedin doesn't mean anything, but having worked with someone in the past, or actually knowing people, can give you a very nice advantage. Provided you still meet their requirements.
Having connections in companies does help and I won't stop telling people that it does.
I have gotten several of my friends jobs. That being said, I only recommend the ones I know and worth while and truly hard workers. I wouldn't stick my neck out for someone that was a slacker. It'd make me look bad for recommending them.
so thats why you wouldnt recommend me......
I KNEW IT!
*Squeaky fart noise*
If it's "I AM THE B3ST", you won't get very far, ever.
Still, quite amused by this since i landed a few general IT/web contracts yesterday through people i know. Also asking my lecturer for all his database management presentations tomorrow so i can beef up ahaha
Quoted for truth.
Even though the initial topic seems misguided, there's a ton of great information posted here from people who have benefited by having a good reputation and having friends.
But keep in mind that just because you know someone at a company you're applying to it doesn't always equate to you having a better chance at getting the job. It all hinges on what you're relationship is with that person or persons. Just as easily as someone can say "Hell yes hire that guy, he's awesome!" they can also say "Uh, Hell no I would never work with that guy again."
Something to keep in mind for everyone.
no, not at all.
seriously can´t i just discuss a topic without beeing accused of acting out of personal frustration or whatever?
this thread is in no way about me and i would realy like to keep it that way.
i just want to have a discussion, and to this point there have been a lot of good points stated.
The problem with your initial post is that it came across as less of a topic for discussion and more of a "force feed my opinion down your throat" rant.
You have to understand that what you said would have repercussions, due to the way you said it.
On topic...If you're sociable, your chances of getting a job increase hugely. All about the networking.
One important portion I think you forgot. One could argue its part of being a humble artist, but I think it is the opposite end of a Egotistical attitude... Confidence.
So it would be
Attitude: (Too much to too little)
Overconfident/Brash/Ego - Confident/Humble - Unconfident/Self-Flagellation
Without the connections, you'd just be at home with your skill and your personality, browsing Polycount and making blanket statement posts with no real point.
Oh look... :P
Every bit of work I've had in the last 5 years has been referral work either from friends, colleagues or clients passing my portfolio and name on to other potential clients.
Brilliant
Edit: Finding this gold in GD renews my faith in GD. Don't stop spreading this love Vig.
It all comes to being Professional, Professionals know they must reserve their energy for their art rather than squander it on acting arrogant.
I used to think I was helping people by giving them honest feedback even when it was bad or even answering to unuseful feedback others gave me(however politely) but it all seems kind of idiotic because:
- If I don't like anything about someone's work, no matter what I say about it that won't change, especially if they are asking for feedback on something that looks finished. its more likely to just put them down or make them frustrated.
- In the time I used to write it out I could probably have sculpted/painted/draw something to further my skill.
- Doesn't make any friends.
- Harms the credibility of anything else I post.
Just thought I make that list because its about more than just getting a Job in The Industry or Freelancing , I see this Zen is needed for one on the path to elevating skill and focusing on the important stuff..
That seems like a pretty selfish point of view. Polycount in general is praised for being the place to get honest feedback on your work. It helped me become a better artist, and I try to help others the same way when I can. In the workplace, everyone is constantly critiquing each others work and offering feedback or suggestions, it is a valuable skill to be able to give clear feedback and know how to receive it.
I'm not saying giving feedback in itself is bad, and I always provide explanation and constructive element to my feedback but still when I have nothing good to say I get the sense that new artists get very discouraged and others see me as a person who killed someone's dog.
In the workplace I think its different because then it is critical to communicate for the success of the team and the project.
well you can´t realy multiply when you start with zero right?
and everyone starts with zero so...
i think your skill gives you the crucial +1 to get this chainreaction rolling.