Korgathian Spawner

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Hello! I'm Will, you may seen me around the forums here and there making a fool of myself.

I am very new to the site, we're talking only weeks here. I first found polycount through some amazing DS2 weapon entries for that contest you had going. Now I'm jumping ship from DA to a more suitable environment for 3D modelers. Polycount seems to be a great place for meaningful, honest, and constructive criticism. So I'll be using this thread to track the progress of my newest creature.

Down to business!

The aim for this project was to make a mother-type creature for the drones of my previous creature, the Krogathian Skitterer.

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/136/9/f/krogathian_skitterer_turn_table_by_fullsynch-d501aef.jpg

The first thing to come to mind of course was queen bees and queen ants. I took a liking to the queen ants because of their amazing variation between different species. Some with wings, some with big hideous butts!

So using those as inspiration and keeping in mind the style of the original Skitterer, I created the concept for the spawner.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner.png

I started blocking it out this week and have made some changes to the concept. The biggest being replacing those chunky ugly mandibles with some much more interesting face arms. Who needs eyes when you have face arms.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP3.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP1.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP2.png

I'm thinking of adding wings and maybe even changing the abdomen. Changes now can improve this greatly in the end so CnC is highly appreciated.

There has to be something you don't like, tell me!

Thanks!

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Quick paint over. These wings resemble that of a bee. I wanna try a few different types before settling as they will be a rather large, defining factor.

AimBiZ · Jun 2012

Looks promising. What are those crystal things on the back? Look out of place to me.
I'd suggest putting some more shape exaggeration to the legs, perhaps having the end part bending as to dampen the steps.

Steve Schulze · Jun 2012

So where do the drones hang out? Do they pop out of the purple nodes on the abdomen? If that's the case, it might be worth exaggerating that part. Make it a focal point as the most important aspect of the creature.

DanRoss · Jun 2012

Your mother creature looks more predatorish then motherish to me looking at the third picture, not sure if thats what your going for but if you want to make a more traditional mother like bug, you might want to make the back huge.

Love that drone, looks incredible man!

FullSynch · Jun 2012

@AimBiZ Those things are where the eggs would form then pop out of. I'm a bit garbage with 2D so some things can get lost in translation, sorry about that.

Thinking about it now, it doesn't make too much sense to begin with. Thanks for the advice on the feet! They do look a bit awkward don't they? Like walking on tippy toes all day.

@Jackablade You're right. It definitely needs some work in the abdomen. Making babies is what it does best, it should really be optimized for the job.

@DanRoss I see what you mean. The aim is to make it a mother first and protector second. Queen ants and bees are usually helpless breeding machines, but I wanted my creature to be more like a mother bear. It's main job is to make the babies, but if need be it can still protect them.

So from all your critiques, I've gathered that I need to make some changes.
- More sensible feet
- Rework the abdomen

I rather like these petiole things. I'll probably need to incorporate them now.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Okay well after I tore myself away from the Guild Wars 2 beta. I got a little work done on this.

Also, I'm on summer break now so I can start cranking a bit harder. Anyway, ONLY THE FINEST OF SCREENCAPS FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURE.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP6.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP7.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP8.png

As you can see I've modeled the base for the wings and modified the thorax to accommodate them. I've also tweaked the feet so as to be more practical and stylish. I've made radical changes to the abdomen and added in the petoile. I even started to sculpt the face-arm whatchamacallits. I started the same way I had with my skitterer, but I remembered how awful that turned out. This time around I've opted for a more stylized chunky look. It looks a bit plain, but these arms will be a very small portion of the model anyway.

As always CnC are highly appreciated, in fact, they are needed. Thank you!

Lazerus Reborn · Jun 2012

Now now spambot charles7 no bumping on Pc without work ;')

Heres a quick paint over.
The sculpt is looking pretty nice¬!

FullSynch · Jun 2012

I think I might be missing on some standard here. What do the pink bits mean?

Thanks!

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Okey-doke, I've made a lot of changes in order to fit this sleeker spikey style. Mostly minor with a few big enhancements. Thanks again to Lazerus Reborn for the paint over, I pulled a lot from it.

New abdomen and fancy petoile.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP10.png
I also sculpted the leg

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP9.png

CnC appreciated! Outside perspectives help immensely!

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Quick update, just did the little scythe arms.

The upper part is left blank as it's just a copy of the legs.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP11.png

CnC appreciated.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I finished sculpting, but blender refuses to render anything right now. Grr :poly127: I'll try again tomorrow, if It's a complexity issue ( I doubt it is) I'll just have to bake it down. :shifty: Oh well...time to get some sleep.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Okay well I managed a work around.

Here is the new sculpted body and wings.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP12.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP13.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP14.png

I was doing a lot of sketchy late night sculpting so CnC would be highly appreciated. Time to start on the retopo.

AimBiZ · Jun 2012

Everything looks very wobbly right now. Needs some sharpening up in edges and crevices I think.
It's quite noisy right now with detail everywhere. I'd suggest making the more sensitive areas like the underside smoother and keep the roughness of the outer armour layer, sort of what you had going on in your concept.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Yes Jennife8 thanks you on my behalf

They learn so fast. I read your comment and put in about 45 mins of pinching and flattening.

Then another 15 mins of panicking and hitting Ctrl Z when I thought I had lost the revised version. It was on a layer only spoken of in legends, it only lies between layer 1 and layer 3. Some call it layer 2. I was going to do a side by side, but now I'm tired from all that needless hysteria. Basically I "smooshed" everything down for a flatter, sharper, look. Some areas still need the treatment, but you get the idea. It's good bit closer to my original style I had going on the face-arm things.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP15.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP16.png

CnC always appreciated.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

I've been on this pretty hard since my last post. I didn't put too much faith in the decimate modifier, so I extruded and filled every last triangle. It was tedious, inefficient and above all BOOORING. I think next time I'll just decimate the damn thing and fix up any problem areas. After that I ran in to a myriad of problems mostly due to user error. Anyway, I made it through the rough and bring gifts in the form of a renders.

This is the model with a normal map, just AO as diffuse map, and a simple alpha map for the wings. All positioning was mostly done for the sake of rigging convenience so don't mind that.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP19.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP17.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP18.png

It's all at 2731 tris right now, even though it was modeled while under a mirror modifier.

There must be one triangle that has gone rogue. :poly127:

Now to rig and animate. The uhm...egg hole? Will be an interesting bit to animate. I've never had to dilate anything before. I think this is where shape keys come in handed no?

As always CnC is appreciated and needed for the betterment of this model

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Through in some rough colors.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP20.png

guhhh · Jun 2012

great work!

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Thanks I guess.

I've made a decision to abandon this color scheme for now to test some more interesting options. I also realized I forgot to bump up the resolution on my diffuse map from the default. I have a question that has been bothering me for a while. When I create a new image, I'm given the regular old dimensions for x and y amount of pixels. Then there's the "advanced" options labeled resolution, usually it's set to something like 150 but I like tweak it up to 1000. Is there any downside to doing this? Is there any limitations to just jerking the res up? If anyone can help me get this itching question off my mind, that would be great.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Sheshesheshaw!
Diffuse, Normal, Spec, Alpha it's all in now! Also I am a ginormous doofus! Earlier I said it was 2731, but I had forgotten to apply my mirror modifier! :poly136:

The real tri count would be 5462 (ouch) with no loose cannon triangles.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP21-1.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP22.png

For the price of just one critique you can help feed this starving thread.:D

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Rigged it up tonight

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP23.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP25.png

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_WIP24.png

FullSynch · Jun 2012

>_> No you're a bum.

Speaking of bums I also puts some shape keys in to work her buggy bum hole. I was going for an aggressive stance, but now it looks very passive so I think I'll lay down the wings and render it out again.

EDIT: done

AlexCatMasterSupreme · Jun 2012

It's looking good, only thing that stands out is the lack of a spec map and dull lighting, the whole thing just looks pretty flat imo.
Also, just a suggestion, since I dont use blender, you could smooth out that base a little.
Other than that it's looking pretty good.

respawnrt · Jun 2012

Nicey, what bugs me is that raytraced render with no spec/gloss.Why don't you use a nice game engine like udk or cryengine ?

or even marmoset with some nice lighting scheme and stuff.I also think the textures look a bit blurry for a closeup shot.

[SF]Three9 · Jun 2012

it's not even the lack of gloss that bothers me specifically, it's just the lack of crispness and color definition in this dude that just "bugs" me (ha-ha-h..... $:\$ )

Right now it's very noisy and kinda blurry, and there really isn't anything to focus on. It's just all kinda "meh" as a blob of color. I'm sure you can get that...ugh I just forgot the word, but that blue-green-pink sheen on the shell through specular maps, but you could also paint in hints of other colors to really bring out the vibrancy of the shell. Insects are usually colorful and sometimes even have patterns to ward off other critters. At the very least you could throw in some gradients to help separate the sections from each other.

Try doing this

Sharpen, Sharpen, then Noise Reduce (my current settings are 9, 32, 60, and 20, but I'm not sure if this computer has the best settings I use), then check it out in a render. This method I picked up really enhances the crispness of the texture and also smooths it out. (NOTE: this is for my hand-painted stuff, but it may work in this case)

You need a better contrasting color for the "skin" of your insect too, I think this would really help the composition of your character. You have this forest green shell with, a forest green with a tan tinge to it for the skin. It doesn't really help the "blurriness" and "blobbiness" of your dude. I'm not saying to make him purple or anything, but you could definitely add more tan/brown to the skin I think

Also, your wing texture is WAY too "detailed." Get rid of that ugly cloud texture you have going on. Insect wings are basically a clear sheet with veins running through them. Think like plastic wrap with little veins :P. The main veins are usually thicker and towards the front of the wing, and the rest are very tiny. This is probably really good reference for you here

I've really been enjoying this critter, but haven't had much to say up until this point. I've really been enjoying watching you make this lil guy

AlexCatMasterSupreme · Jun 2012

I think that the spec and the detail of the sculpt is what makes it not seem crisp, I'd like to see that shine turned up like in the earlier renders before I make my final opinion.
I don't think he was going for total photo realism considering it's not a high poly. and only 5k tris.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Oh my, company.

@ AlexCatMasterSupreme (lol) I'll work on the spec map some more, maybe it's a bit too monotone.

@ respawnrt I don't want to shell out for marmoset just yet, I don't know how the free trial is, but I'll give it a go anyway. I have Unity if that's comparable to UDK.

@ Three9 I see what you mean. I'll try out all those things and consult the color wheel a little more. It seems I also need to rework my wings a lot.:poly136:

Thanks for the crits everyone! Seems I have my hands full once more.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Did a little work today, wasted a lot of time screwing around in Unity. So I just gave in to marmoset which turned out to be a pretty great tool.

I had a bit of trouble with transparency and am still trying to resolve this issue where the wings act like an X-Ray type screen and see through half my mesh. :poly127:

Anyway here are some quick screenies.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_Render001-1.jpg

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Messed with the spec a little and pushed some colors around to create more contrast by pushing the greens in the shell and moving the fleshier bits more towards a red/purple. I overlayed some green gradient over the front of each section to create more interest and separate the sections a little more too.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab236/littlebigbucket/Spawner_Render002.jpg

Idk if the changes are too settle, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

CnC appreciated

AlexCatMasterSupreme · Jun 2012

It still feels flat and kind of muddy.
Look at this http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84851&page=2

FullSynch · Jun 2012

That seems soooo out of reach.

I think I'll have to extend out a bit more and post my maps. Really should have already

maybe then I can get a little more advice on even getting close to something like that baneling.

btw what's that map he has below the normal map?

I also rendered a turntable, a bit pointless though because you can't see any detail

EDIT: Stand by XD I'm working it out.

AlexCatMasterSupreme · Jun 2012

It might be the lighting.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

The map?

AlexCatMasterSupreme · Jun 2012

FullSynch wrote: »

The map?

If you uploaded the full maps I could take a look, it looks like either something with the maps is messed up or your lighting of the model is odd.

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Oh my what is this witchcraft.

It seems my image has scaled itself down from the original which kept all my maps in their 1024 state. :poly127: Bare with me.

EDIT: There

AlexCatMasterSupreme · Jun 2012

So the first thing I see is that your UV's have a LOT of empty space that could have been used better, also make your spec black and white, white is more reflective, black is less, try these out, I also sharpened your diffuse a tad. I added more white to the bone things, like on the baneling or whatever it's called lol
I'd like to see how it turns out!

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Thanks! Alright I'll pop these in marmoset, gotta save as tga first (afaik). Meanwhile, is bone really THAT reflective?

AlexCatMasterSupreme · Jun 2012

FullSynch wrote: »

Thanks! Alright I'll pop these in marmoset, gotta save as tga first (afaik). Meanwhile, is bone really THAT reflective?

It's really up to you, that other one was, I really couldn't tell you, I wouldn't assume so, but it breaks up a monotone so I think it wouldn't be a big deal. But hey it's up to you!

FullSynch · Jun 2012

Okay I toyed with this a little more. Most notably I used a nice plug-in to convert to normal maps. I used it to give the existing normal map a bit more texture. I also made a new lighting set up. It's the sunlight preset with a few spotlights. I snagged some screen shots as the turn-table hit some nice shiny angles.

Gurl look at that shiny butt!

As always CnC is appreciated.

AlexCatMasterSupreme · Jun 2012

It's looking a little better, it still looks not very "right", I may be totally wrong. I hope someone can provide some better advice. Maybe touching up that specular map by hand. I have no idea. its still better than I could do!

Korgathian Spawner

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