learning normal maps (3ds max)
polycounter lvl 13
So i have modded a low and a high poly trash can to start off the learning process of normal maps.
i have 3 smoothing groups on the low poly and have the high poly all turbo smoothed. Am i now ready to unwrap or is there something i have done wrong or need to change?
i have 3 smoothing groups on the low poly and have the high poly all turbo smoothed. Am i now ready to unwrap or is there something i have done wrong or need to change?
Replies
I added some more tips.
So say if i wanted to split the lid into 2 pieces for the unwrap they would both have to have their own smoothing group.
Does this mean that for complicated models you can have 100s of different smoothing groups?
All i have to say is try and keep your high poly details on and angle like this
__/```\__ and NOT like __|```|__ specifically the details on the lid and the very bottom trim. The reason you put stuff like that on an angle is because when you bake the normal map, if you don't have a high enough texture res, you'll never see it.
yea, i am going to do all the suggestions tomorrow
In terms of the high poly 90 degree angle..if it is a 90 degree angle and is turbo smoothed..is that ok or do i have to like chanfer the 90 degree angle first then turbo smooth?
Thanks for the fast replys tho guys, means alot
get your hands dirty
This is the lid that i have unwraped..
A combination of bevels, UV islands and well placed seams are your best bet. Round hard surfaces are also a bastard to normal map and not as simple as they may initially appear
If you havnt already read over this thread
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81154
it explains much of what you are asking extremely well.
So i understand now that a uv island is like a seperate model...so the lid = 1 uv island which means it should just have 1 smoothing group.
The base of the trash can = 1 island so that again = 1 smoothing group and so on.
I think i am starting to understand?
Could i just have one edge in the middle? or is the way i have done it correct?
The best way to learn this is to just make art and bake out maps, make many and try them in different engines and very quickly you will come to understand how and why.
Also I put togeather a quick image to help explain this comment of yours
"So i understand now that a uv island is like a seperate model...so the lid = 1 uv island which means it should just have 1 smoothing group."
The image is one model, and each UV island in the unwrap window has a separate smoothing group. Break your UV's at each hard edge created by a smoothing group, bevel the hard edges you don't want to break on your UV's and to reduce UV seams.
I would start with a model similar to the attached image, bake and see what it looks like. Chances are i might end up adding a two or three ring bevel to the base if the Trashcan's dynamic and can be knocked over making the seam more visible or the bake produces overly wavy normal maps.
The extra spheres are the underneath of the lid and one for the near top of the trash for rubbish purpose.
which means i have:
1 = main base of trash can
2 = bottom of trash can
3= handle
4 = lid
5 = rubbish
I am on holiday from tomorrow but when i come back i will be ready to bake and see what happens
I have baked my first normal maped trash can and these are the results in crazt bump...
I obviously have a few questions... and have posted screen grabs to show.
1. from this angle my trash can looks about right yea?
2. half way around i have a seem going straight down the middle which what i gather from my uvw seem? is there a way to make it seemless?
3. why from this angle is the top so borked?
or the even better thign to do, is view it in a game engine, get it in udk or toolbag and take a look at it.
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but i know it will greatly help to solve some issues your having, especially the one on third picture above this post
Could be any number of things causing this. Few ideas
You want to make sure you have padding checked on when you bake, and that your UV islands have enough space between each other and the edges of the 0-1 space for padding.
Did you use a cage when you baked? if so whats that looking like? cage problems would explain the issues with the lid as well.
I have no idea what crazybump is like at displaying normals, its possible that it displays normals inaccurately and has offset them.
UV's could have been mistakenly moved between baking and previewing?
Additionally consider this when making your UV's and thinking about seams.
I spent all day yesterday getting my head around this normal map business. i have tryied 2 different methods
1. xnormal
2. baking in 3dsmax with projection cages.
I get pretty much the exact same results.
The lid: i am still getting the tiny triangle like you see in my previous post..could this mean that the size of the high poly is wrong? or could i paint out the triangles? Even when i change the uvs of the lid like you guys said i am still getting a weird normal map result on the edges of the lid?
The main body: i dont seem to get that offset normal map when in the 3ds max viewport...only seems to be a crazy bump thing.
handle: handle i think is fine to me?
One more thing...
Whats the best way to view normal maps? a shader in max, udk, marmoset?
so if your making it for udk preview it in udk.
your previewing it in CB is prolly the worst way to do it., and if you really want to preview in max, use a good shader like.
http://xoliulshader.com/
or
http://www.3pointstudios.com/3pointshader_about.shtml
Its hard to see clearly from the images posted but it does look like your lowpoly may not be centered on your highpoly? and that it needs to match your high poly more closely. Also make sure your cage is a tight fit.
Here are a few images Linked from Earthquakes incredible post that outlines your problem much better than i can. I recommend you have another quick read over the posts within his thread that contain the images posted below.http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81154
to sum up, match your low/high as best you can and consider dropping the bevel for more geo around the lid. You will still get some waviness due to the shape but it should be much reduced.
"The main body: i dont seem to get that offset normal map when in the 3ds max viewport...only seems to be a crazy bump thing." nice one, problem solved :thumbup:.
"handle: handle i think is fine to me?" looks good so far.
passerby:
I took your advice and downloaded http://xoliulshader.com/ ....my god its a beautiful shader.
It actually turned out that 80% of my problems was the shaders i was using.
Lennyagony:
Thankyou for the link..i made my high poly slightly bigger and it decreased the triangles by loads!
Again..i thank everyone in this forum for being there for me, i have learnt such a lot and i will be posting up more updates soon.
This is the result so far....(remember this is my first normal map model so be gentle
How do you know if the green channel is flipped?
I use x normal to bake my normals and my eye is just not trained enough to see if the green channel is meant to be flipped or not? is there a trick to this?
+x +y +z is no flipped green, +x -y +z means it;s baking with a flipped green channel.
so if you bake with -y check off flip green channel in your shader, if you baked with +y dont check it.
Looking nice bcottage, and even more importantly nice progression. Looking forward to see your future works
Thankyou for explaining to me about the green channel. I looked at x normal and everything is set to +x +y +z so i dont know why half of my models normals are flipped? because the settings have been the same all along? i need to investigate..
Lennyagony
Thankyou dude means alot
anyway..this is my progression on the textures..
its currently 1024x1024...massive i know but i intend to shrink to 512x512 or even 256x256 once i am finished
But we could guess wildly, if you like?
One possible option is that you've got a detail normalmap loaded?