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Game Asset | T-28 Heavy Tank | University Assignment | Loads of images, warning!

martynball
polycounter lvl 10
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martynball polycounter lvl 10
Hey, just finished making the lowpoly and highpoly of my tank for an "Intro to 3D for Games 1B" assignment at University.

Well, I say finished but I need to reduce the triangle count by at leat 7000. Which the two cranes on the side of the tank come to, I do not know why they are so high but I will work on that.

Once the triangle count is suitible I will unwrap and ATTEMPT to bake the details to a normal map. Below are some renders of the highpoly and then the lowpoly.

tKWJI.jpg
Pxu7V.jpg
uhF8J.jpg
j845t.jpg
1drII.jpg
rNREf.jpg

I have also modelled the turret, which I have yet to make lowpoly version of.
7NPfz.jpg
vTYIn.jpg
LAnuD.jpg
r76VT.jpg
K0LxS.jpg

Lowpoly
Triangle Count: 27, 700
t-28_lowpoly_4.jpg
t-28_lowpoly_4_wire.jpg
t-28_lowpoly_5.jpg
t-28_lowpoly_5_wire.jpg
t-28_lowpoly_6_wire.jpg

Replies

  • AdamB
    Very cool project, in to watch this
  • MEGALOS
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    MEGALOS polycounter lvl 9
    Amazing stuff you've got here dude! Will be watching this tread. Can't wait to see the baking result :D
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks :P Just got the triangle count down to 23,000 - I missed a turbosmoothed object :P
  • MEGALOS
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    MEGALOS polycounter lvl 9
    Hehehe :P

    How long did it take you to model all of this?
  • roosterMAP
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    roosterMAP polycounter lvl 12
    23k for a tank is WAY WAY WAY too high for a LP object. You shouldn't have it higher than 8-10k tri's.

    its a great high poly model tho.
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    I don't really know, as I have worked on it over afew months id say a bit every know and then. It's hard to say.
  • IronHawk
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    IronHawk polycounter lvl 10
    Looks good man.
  • nervouspixels
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    nervouspixels polycounter lvl 14
    bake it! bake it! bake it!
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    roosterMAP wrote: »
    23k for a tank is WAY WAY WAY too high for a LP object. You shouldn't have it higher than 8-10k tri's.

    its a great high poly model tho.

    Thanks, and I have tried to get it lower poly. There are no more polygons I can remove without it looking like crap or having it look like it was made for a Nintendo DS :S

    Seriously lol, most objects look bad enough, there are just loads of objects on it and there is no chose but to have it at such high poly counts.

    And for current gen games that poly count would be nothing... the Halo:Reach tank had a triangle count of 27,000 triangles. The Crysis tank has 50,000 + triangles. The UT3 tank has 12, 786 Triangles too... so for the size of the tank and the details it has on it I believe that triangle count is average, and my lecturer's agree.
  • Lazerus Reborn
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    Lazerus Reborn polycounter lvl 8
    Poly shaving areas?

    fppynvka.jpg
  • AlecMoody
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    AlecMoody ngon master
    If this is supposed to be a drivable vehicle 23k isn't so far off the mark for a low poly in its top lod stage. 7-8k is lower than necessary. I would say if the top lod stage is 15-20k and you are using your polygons in such a way that you could build good lod stages then its fine.
    Since this isn't actually going into a game then I wouldn't worry about it.

    Keep in mind that a 15k tank is going to be a lot easier to render than a 15k character model because the rigging is so much simpler.
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    @AlecMoody: It will go into UT3 for final render and presentation for submission.

    @Lazerus Reborn: The orange area I have recently optimized before I left Uni, basically did what you said I should do.

    The "poles" sticking up out of the tank are actually two planes intersecting.

    As for the cylinders and other cylindrical areas you have circled I will try and give them less side's but I don't want to go to the extreme and give them 5 sides as that will look really bad. For a medium level LOD then yeah, but not up close.

    I could also use a plain where you noted.

    To be honest,(not an excuse) just look at Battlefield 3 trailers and the other next-gen games in the works. You don't see a single edge on the models, so I REALLY don't think this triangle count is high or even medium. The use of highpoly counts is becoming common, not so much of a need to reduce it so drastically any more.

    I appreciate the crit by the way, just explaining the poly count. :P
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    You also have to consider the silhouette of objects, over the polycount. What's the point in putting it in-game if there is no ability to make it look good. It is also a hero piece.

    For example the suspension wheels should have so many more sides, as you can see the edges and it looks really bad. And the rope on the side has really bad ends where it curves.
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    Now got it to 22,088 Triangles
  • roosterMAP
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    roosterMAP polycounter lvl 12
    Push it lower. The antenna's should use alpha maps (thus should only be 1 tri). those extruded lines on the back have got to go. I think ur underestimating the power of normal maps.
  • Drav
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    Drav polycounter lvl 9
    Another vote for 20k being fine in a modern engine with good lods. Arma2s tanks are up to 30k.......
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    roosterMAP wrote: »
    Push it lower. The antenna's should use alpha maps (thus should only be 1 tri). those extruded lines on the back have got to go. I think ur underestimating the power of normal maps.

    I'm pushing it lower still, and i'm not underestimating the power of normals, but taking in mind how they will bake to the lowpoly if not enough triangles are there to create enough pixels to capture the data.

    Also the outline of the shapes it easily seen and normal maps can't hide a 5 sided cylinder against an object. It would be seen.

    Just rendering some closeup shows now so everyone can see what's going on.

    Edit:
    Ignore the random artefacts in the renders, I changed a setting somewhere and can't find it.
    t-28_lowpoly_closeshot_wire_1.jpg
    t-28_lowpoly_closeshot_wire_2.jpg
    t-28_lowpoly_closeshot_wire_3.jpg
    t-28_lowpoly_closeshot_wire_4-1.jpg
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 14
    Nice details! But in you LP you really gotta watch out for those super tiny bevels and stuff. They will be one - two pixels in the end and you have thrown away thousandths of triangles on them. Not worth it.

    And then you got stuff like this to

    Pointers.jpg
  • ayoub44
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    ayoub44 polycounter lvl 10
    your low poly look great , :) but i have a question about your hipoly .. i was see jason deus ex environment theard and someone say 90 degree on hipoly is bad ; but you have some 90 degree angle on your hipoly , that fine ?
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    sltrOlsson wrote: »
    Nice details! But in you LP you really gotta watch out for those super tiny bevels and stuff. They will be one - two pixels in the end and you have thrown away thousandths of triangles on them. Not worth it.

    And then you got stuff like this to

    Pointers.jpg

    I have looked everywhere and can't find any small chamfers, I don't actually remember making any so should be fine from that.

    And thanks, I was thinking about doing something with that part and what you have said will work perfectly. Thanks :P

    The purple I can't really do much about without messing up the outline. Although I could loose some edges on the cylinder and the "cage" for the lamps.
    ayoub44 wrote: »
    your low poly look great , :) but i have a question about your hipoly .. i was see jason deus ex environment theard and someone say 90 degree on hipoly is bad ; but you have some 90 degree angle on your hipoly , that fine ?

    Yes it's bad if you want the details to be baked into the normal maps. Ray's are cast in the direction of the normal's from the lowpoly for each pixel on the texture map, then when the ray contacts the highpoly normal for that pixel a color is calculated from the difference in angle.

    So of course if it's a 90 degree angle then the ray will just hit a small "chamfer" on the edge of the angle and miss the rest as it is 90 degree's.

    I need to just give my 90 degree angles a bit more of an angle tomorrow :P Thanks for reminding me.
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    Concerning the antrennas (likely applies to other parts too):

    rings_sides.png484488.png
    nail.png

    Oh lol, just clicked preview and saw the latest posts.

    I'd drop the alpha planes and probably go with 3,6,6,9 or 4,6,8,12

    Also, on intersecting geo with the main hull, try this:
    compassideas.png
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    @Snader:
    Thanks for the examples. I will look around areas of my tank to see if I can do that in more places, but I usually do it whilst making it lowpoly.

    The 2nd example is interesting though, good technique, I will also try and use that in areas.

    t-28_lowpoly_closeshot_wire_5.jpg

    Afew more shots of it. Will work more on it tomorrow. Think I know how I can remove about 2000 triangles or so, will try it tomorrow.

    Current count: 21, 918
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    Two connotations:
    one downside of the technique is that the silhouette will get a bit wobbly, which is most noticable in parralel lines.
    Instead of
    | | | |
    it'll be like
    /\/\/\/\/

    So I wouldn't advise it on very lowpoly shapes, (say 6 or 4 sides) unless they have quite a slanted shape.

    The other thing is that you'll have to sacrifice a few rows of pixels because you have to push down the floater into the main geo. Ideally pushed in exactly halfway, because then all sides are the same side. So it won't work with very tall shapes, but the lowest rings of the machinegun/commander hatches are pretty ... un-tall? and thus pretty cheap.
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 14
    Sorry about my crazy purple sketching. I think i'm a bit restless from not being able to work atm.

    What i actually meant with that psychotic sketch fucking was that, you have allot nice high details in you lowpoly - cool. BUT, then you have the base of the barrel for example, witch is using less sides then one of you small lamps (is it?) kinda. Dosn't make any sense to me. Try to keep everthing even steven. I'm talking cylinders mainly. No sense in keeping boxes and shit in the same size, dah! (To much Charlie Sheen, sry)

    Over all this is fucking sexy, i'll keep an eye on this! :D
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I think the "wheels" need more tris, they are pretty big and don't have as many as other parts that are less noticeable.
  • Drav
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    Drav polycounter lvl 9
    Good mesh shredding Strolsson, something everyone needs I think......With a big project with lots of parts its easy to let a few poor ones in when youre tired or having an off session. Fortunately Polycount never gets tired, never sleeps, never surrenders, and NEVER has an off day.....


    Woot, going to post wires next project I post, they´ll make you all sick :P
  • WillMac
    Good shredding, good work all people! Especially Martynball :poly121:, am well impressed at all this, the taking on advise, the optimisation, the hi-poly renders and modelling is lovely...

    ... but stop soon. 20k is fine for a tank like this surely?

    (character + guns + what not is easy 20k and this tank is massive playable vehicle?).

    Make a 10k lower LOD version to appease the hardcore and as a bonus challenge, be interesting to see? But i want to see bakes and i think they need some geo to be there to bake nicely onto still.
  • Matroskin
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    Matroskin polycounter lvl 11
    great hp work.
    LP version could go around 20-21 easily and that would be arealistic count as well.
    The hull and chasis r well optimised but attachments and details on the hull could be lower res.

    Well, anywyas, its univ proj, this maybe just fine if u haven`t got enought time left to go abck and optimise things ;)
  • martynball
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    martynball polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks guys, and I just finished getting it down to 18,720 Triangles. But then added the turret which brought it back up to 20,881 triangles.

    Of course the turret needs to be detailed to an extent too as if it was in first person this would be soon. I would love to have this at a max of 30,000 triangles which would give me enough triangles to make this look more awesome, atm all I see are edges :(

    But then I doubt anyone would agree on that triangle count, although from the research on triangle counts I have done. And current-gen games I have seen, that would be a common triangle count.

    Some more renders in a bit so you can see the changes, I'm calling it done now though as I need to work on my other module's which have the hand in date of April 1- 10th. And I have not started them, worried im going to fail them lmao.

    Final baked and textured piece for this module is not due in till May I believe. The highpoly is due in friday, most people are still doing that.

    :P
  • WillMac
    martynball wrote: »
    atm all I see are edges :(

    Yeah but do the bakes and textures and am sure the eye will not notice edge so much.
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