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In the UK School principals threaten parents with police if kids play 18 rated games

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In the UK School principals threaten parents with police if their kids play 18 rated games.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3016596/Head-teachers-report-parents-police-social-services-let-children-play-Grand-Theft-Auto-Call-duty.html

Is this the right or wrong thing to do?

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[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDUW6v7seS0[/ame]

Replies

  • DireWolf
    That's just stupid and I bet will only encourage kids to break the rule even more.

    Enforcing the rule is good. Threatening is bad.
  • RN
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    RN sublime tool
    Threatening is a way of enforcing.
  • iniside
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    iniside polycounter lvl 6
    These people are just crazy, and are main reason why would anyone go outside and start shooting them..

    IF they know games I played when I was 6, and movies I watched, they would probabaly either die from hearth attack (if they are serious, which is honestly inconsiderable for me) or couldn't tell anything if they are just hypocrites, trying to get more power.

    I'm against any rules regarding such things. It's parents responsibility raise their children not state.

    I really hate all those white knights warriors ;/
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    We need to fuel this discussion with more shocking imagery, for the children!

    TombRaider_RiverDeath2.gif

    deadly-dead-space-eye-poke-o.gif

    civilization-nuke-o.gif
  • Filoflow
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    Filoflow polycounter lvl 5
    Kryzon wrote: »
    Threatening is a way of enforcing.

    Well, beating somebody is also a way of enforcing and that doesn't justify it.

    Anyway I don't think that's the problem. The teachers can call whoever they want. The social services are the ones to realize the stupidity of the situation and just let it be. Is not about is this going to be known or not, but rather is this supposed to be punishable or not. If it is then the teachers are doing nothing wrong (well, is kind of foolish, but not wrong) and if it is not punishable then there's no problem and these teachers are just making noise as they probably are.

    I haven't read all the article though, just the headlines.
  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    I'm confused, is it illegal to let a minor play an m rated game (or whatever their equivalent is) in the UK?
  • mats effect
    Its illegal to sell it to them I think its down to the parents if they want them to play them or not. Though I think it is considered a from of neglect or at least that's what they say they will report them for anyway.

    In work though I have parents come up to be asking for games that "don't have too much killing" in them. Or the funnest is when the come up with some Disney kids film and a copy of GTA IV.
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    Interesting debate. Firstly, I used to work in Game, where we would have kids come up to the counter to buy 18 rated games and when we refused, their parents came up and tried to buy the game for them! Also it's easy to say 'blame the parents', but what do you do if your kid goes to a friends house where they are able to play all these titles? My younger half bro is 12 but he has played titles like CoD, Resident evil and Dead Space and now has trouble sleeping at night (no surprise.)

    Although I will say it's annoying how vilified video games have become, the kid who played Manhunt and bludgeoned his friend or the London riots spring to mind, ("Now kids are playing stuff like GTA, no wonder they're rioting!" srsly?)
  • mats effect
    We also had an angry mother return Fable because of the sexual content and got GTA instead.....
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    "You sold me Spyro the dragon, which involves setting fire to enemies... they should ban this sick filth!!

    ....now hand me that copy of Hotline Miami"
  • mats effect
  • Mask_Salesman
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    Mask_Salesman polycounter lvl 13
    I only came here for the shocking imagery :thumbup:
  • spiderDude
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    spiderDude polycounter lvl 8
    I didn't make it past the title of the article.....report parents to Social Service!?!?!

    I don't know how social service is like in the UK, but here in the US it's no joke. I agree that parents should be parents and shouldn't purchase rated M games for their kids, but....take their kids away from them for that?!?!?!?!

    My younger brother is a pretty introverted person, when he was a kid, he was very introverted. Well, his teacher assumed that he was being neglected at home. She went through proper channels and was going to contact Social Services, my parents freaked the F*ck out and than brought judgement down on that teacher, lol.

    Anyways, I find it annoying seeing parents purchasing rated M games for their clearly under aged kid, but contacting social service for that is like going full Nuclear War on what was probably a family doing fine.
  • Dazz3r
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    Dazz3r polycounter lvl 12
    Social services would most likely voice their concern but ultimately, if the child is well fed, well looked after and cared for, they wouldn't intervene. Put it this way, I'd tell that head teacher to call the police and I'll let him know afterwards how pointless it all is!

    Me and my 2 daughters play loads of games together, we have a great time and its a good way for us to bond and spend time together. We also watch documentaries on how movies and games are made, we talk about controversial topics, we talked about gamergate and we talk about sexism, racism, we talk about all the real world issues. They are now 13 and 10 years old, doing great at school and I have no doubts will go to university and lead successful lives! They are also very level headed and 2 of the most caring people anyone could ever meet.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    Yeah, as a parent in the UK -

    Social Services only care if there is genuine neglect for the child. And ultimately the law in this case is on the side of the parent... It's illegal for anybody to buy an 18 cert game specifically for a minor, it's not illegal for a parent to let their child play that game if the parent bought it for themselves. The police wouldn't even bother to file the report.
  • Deathstick
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    Deathstick polycounter lvl 7
    I played GTA 3 when I was 11, and Vice City, SA etc. I used to play Duke Nukem 3D, Doom 2, Heretic, and Witch Haven with my dad and sisters over LAN when I was even younger, aaand I didn't grow up wanting to destroy the world.

    Heck, blowing each other up with RPGs and BFGs were some of the best memories of family bonding when I was little, and those games first introduced me to the whole idea of modding and making games for a living with their level editors. (I also played Mario Party, the Sims 2, and Zelda, so it wasn't all hardcore violence ;) )

    So yeah, I think it should be left to the parents to decide whether or not their kids are too young for a game or can't tell the difference between having fun in a fictional computer game versus being a real-life sociopath with a lack of empathy.
  • Principe Daemoniorum
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    Principe Daemoniorum polycounter lvl 2
    Britain is such a nanny state it's beyond satire. It's the parent's child, they should choose what is and what isn't appropriate for their child to watch, say or play.
    Some parents today have become lazy, complacent and reliant on the nanny state because they can't discipline their children. The parents should be the ones in charge of discipline at home, keep the schools out of it.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Regarding the responsibility of the parents to teach moral law to their children, would it be fair to say that there are acceptable situations where parents cannot be reasonably expected to mostly monitor their children's gaming habits?

    Beginning to work 40 hour weeks as a young adult, I'm starting to see why some families do have weaker familial relations than others due to time constraints. Perhaps mostly due to having to work several jobs in a given day, etc.
  • Damian Nachman
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    Damian Nachman polycounter lvl 6
    eld wrote: »
    Horrible Dead-Space stuff

    I always felt bad for the dude who had to animate that eye poking scene.
    It's by far the most uncomfortable I ever felt playing a video game.
  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
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    Amsterdam Hilton Hotel insane polycounter
    The letter says: 'Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Dogs of War and other similar games, are all inappropriate for children and they should not have access to them.

    'Nor should they have Facebook accounts or interact on sites or media or messaging sites like WhatsApp that are not designed for their age.'
    Nor should they speak dissident thoughts, or hold views and opinions contrary to that of the State; Furthermore,
  • Wesley
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    Wesley polycounter lvl 13
    Britain is such a nanny state it's beyond satire.

    :D!!
  • easterislandnick
  • LRoy
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    LRoy polycounter lvl 10
    The solution to this is so simple. Just give all M rated games a popup that asks if you're over 18. It works for porn right?
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    I don't get it.

    There's NO correlation or causation linked between violent video games, and violent behaviour.


    :/


    Shouldn't we be more concerned about keeping them away from more harmful things?

    Like drugs, gangs, or prostitution?
  • easterislandnick
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    easterislandnick polycounter lvl 17
    JacqueChoi wrote: »
    I don't get it.

    There's NO correlation or causation linked between violent video games, and violent behaviour.


    :/


    Shouldn't we be more concerned about keeping them away from more harmful things?

    Like drugs, gangs, or prostitution?

    I'm not sure that they say there is. Mature content can have more impact on a child than making them violent. The teacher in the link I posted says...

    "I taught a child two years ago who had been a high achiever for a long time. Then, when he got to year five he suddenly became incredibly sullen, very angry, frustrated and exhausted. We brought in a therapist to speak to him. Eventually it came out that he was watching lots of Let's Plays of Resident Evil and other horror games. He had access to some he would play as well on his tablet. He told me he would be playing games at night and watching Let's Plays, and he said lots of them scared him and he couldn't sleep because of it. Of course, his parents should be intervening because of that. And his parents did once we raised it. But it still took him a long time to be able to sleep properly. He was 10."
  • Greg DAlessandro
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    Greg DAlessandro polycounter lvl 6
    Who are they what to tell parents what their kids can or can't do.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    I'm not sure that they say there is. Mature content can have more impact on a child than making them violent. The teacher in the link I posted says...

    "I taught a child two years ago who had been a high achiever for a long time. Then, when he got to year five he suddenly became incredibly sullen, very angry, frustrated and exhausted. We brought in a therapist to speak to him. Eventually it came out that he was watching lots of Let's Plays of Resident Evil and other horror games. He had access to some he would play as well on his tablet. He told me he would be playing games at night and watching Let's Plays, and he said lots of them scared him and he couldn't sleep because of it. Of course, his parents should be intervening because of that. And his parents did once we raised it. But it still took him a long time to be able to sleep properly. He was 10."

    So some stupid correlation based on 1 teachers observation.

    Guess where aggressive behaviour in children REALLY comes from: PROBLEMS AT HOME.


    Most of what we read regarding violent games are conservatives, and anti-vaccination crowds. Basically a large group of people who have absolutely NO clue what they're talking about.

    This is a proper article that actually sites an OXFORD UNIVERSITY study, with a peer reviewed psychology journal that says THERE IS NO EFFECT:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/11507576/Study-finds-no-evidence-violent-video-games-make-children-aggressive.html



    SO that teacher can go fuck himself.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Just to be clear how stupid this is.

    It's like saying "Cats cause Cancer"

    Then show statistics for a group of cancer patients who are also cat owners... then say LOOK! SEE!! CATS CAUSE CANCER! CUZ OF ALL OF THOSE CAT OWNERS WHO HAVE CANCER!!!

    And then citing Jenny McCarthy as your source for that wonderful tidbit of misinformation.




    As usual, the loudest, least reasonable voice dominates.
  • kanga
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    kanga quad damage
    Yeah it is more about parental neglect than it is about the evils of video games. The things are rated for a reason and seems to me the whole business comes down to common sense. This discussion has always been turned around to put developers in a bad light, although this time if they want to stop idiots (parents) terrifying toddlers that fine by me. If you want your kids to be truly screwed however, you could always send them to church.
  • easterislandnick
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    easterislandnick polycounter lvl 17
    JacqueChoi wrote: »






    SO that teacher can go fuck himself.

    Did you read his letter? He doesn't say that games make kids aggressive. In one case in his experience a child was angry through loss of sleep after being scarred at looking at content he wasnt mature enough to process. The teacher seems pretty balanced and fair to me and in no way merits that aggression.
  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
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    Amsterdam Hilton Hotel insane polycounter
    In one case in his experience a child was angry through loss of sleep after being scarred at looking at content he wasnt mature enough to process.
    I don't trust his experience. Kids stay up late constantly and they lie to offload blame

    Regardless of that he's also imposing his visions on the parents of his district which certainly merits an aggressive negative response in language
  • slipsius
    The kid was staying up late because a game scared him. I think lack of sleep would be a bigger cause of aggression than video games. If something scares you, it doesnt turn you violent or aggressive. But lack of sleep puts people in really shitty moods and become irritable quite easily. So yes, games are rated-m for a reason. but not because they cause violence. because subject matter is not appropriate for younger audiences. Just like most horror movies are rated r for a reason. They don't cause violence. But kids sure as hell wont sleep after.
  • kneedeepinthedoomed
    I agree with the practice of reporting instances where kids play M-rated games to the social services.

    Hopefully the social services will handle these cases fairly and only intervene if there is a general neglect of the kids in that household.

    A teacher is actually doing his job right if he does more than just teach school lessons. Teachers ideally should care for the kids' well being on top of teaching. So I understand where this comes from. The teachers' motives are probably honourable.

    A letter might not do much, and yes, parents might be too busy to do much about it, but tbh they have the entire weekend to talk to their kids about games. It's not rocket science to do an hour of googling about the games your kid plays and form an opinion on them (for reference, most people watch TV several hours per day, is it really asking so much to invest a little of that time into watching your kid play a game and getting to know those games?) The letter might get the parent thinking about this at least, and if the parents don't give a shit about what their children do, the social services need to do it. That's why they exist.

    My view on violence in games has changed a lot over the past 5-6 years. I used to think it wasn't such a big deal, but part of me was always uneasy about kids killing prostitutes in GTA and such. Kids are potentially not able to see it as the parody it is (perhaps) intended as (?). There is a good reason for the state protecting children up to a point. Of course it's chiefly the parents' responsibility, but if parents fail, I'm in favour of the state providing a second line of safety for the kids.

    I accept that playing GTA doesn't turn you into a school killer. But that doesn't automatically justify giving it to kids, right.

    AFAIK scientists currently think that the brain isn't fully developed until you're 25 years old. Because of this, I would even be in favour of introducing a 25+ rating and accordingly declare people mature only when they reach that age.

    12, 14, 16 year olds are kids and have no business playing violence-porn games. And I am justified in having an opinion on that because when those kids grow up, I will have to deal with them, if not directly, then indirectly, as voters, as parents, as collegues, as union members, etc. No one is an island these days.
  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    would love to see input on this thread from people that actually have kids and what are their thoughts on this :)
  • BeardyDan
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    BeardyDan polycounter lvl 2
    As far as I'm aware letting kids play age restricted games isn't illegal. What I find disturbing is this idea that these schools think they can use the police and social services to enforce non existent laws.

    Using threats in this way is a form of coercion, not "enforcement". If they want to campaign for legislation, they can be my guest, but these coercive tactics are downright unethical.
  • McGreed
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    McGreed polycounter lvl 15
    You don't just go from one to hundred, you don't just report parents to the police or social services, you have a talk with the parents about the issue and find out if there is some actual problems in the home. Stop wasting the police or social services time with this. If you want to pull the responsibility card, do some work before wasting peoples work, or we will end up with a society where people report people because the farted in the elevator.
  • easterislandnick
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    easterislandnick polycounter lvl 17
    McGreed wrote: »
    You don't just go from one to hundred, you don't just report parents to the police or social services, you have a talk with the parents about the issue and find out if there is some actual problems in the home.

    From the letter posted above.

    "Some people seem to think this is the first thing teachers have done, that their monocles have fallen out into their cups of tea and they've gone, 'goodness me, this is horrific, we must write a letter.'

    At my school we've invited parents in to talk about safety online and video games. Increasingly, younger teachers like me grew up with games. I've had chats with parents about games. This letter, this threat, it is a bit clumsy, but teachers have tried. I've seen in our newsletter, 'it's coming to our attention that lots of children are playing games that are perhaps inappropriate for them. Please be sure to check any games your child plays are appropriate.' Teachers have tried that. This dialogue has been attempted and had limited success. The teachers haven't started with threats. This is a last ditch, albeit clumsy attempt to try and change things, because it is having a detrimental effect on some children."
  • Dazz3r
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    Dazz3r polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah you've tried and you can only try so far, you dont have to keep upping the auntie until everyone conforms! Let the parents decide. I'll tell you right now as in one of my previous posts, I let my daughters play all sorts, we play them together, we discuss games all the time, even issues such as gamergate and other politically charged topics. They are 13 and 10 years old. I guarantee they will grow up to be 2 very successful, compassionate, caring and responsible girls because they're already well on their way.
  • easterislandnick
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    easterislandnick polycounter lvl 17
    That's because you're a good parent Dazz3r who is taking an active interest in your kids. Sad thing is that plenty of parents don't have a clue what their kids are up to and some don't care. The teachers have to deal with the results of bad parenting everyday. This is a heavy handed way of trying to deal with it but it seems like the games industry is too scarred of the subject and won't even think about it. Some people on this thread have commented on a teacher seemingly without having taken the time to read his letter.

    It is a 'nanny state' move for sure, but some of these kids need a nanny because they don't seem to have a mum or dad who gives a shit about them.

    The best approach is talking to parents but it only works if the parents actually care and don't use media as a babysitter. Interesting article on penny arcade....

    http://penny-arcade.com/news/post/2015/04/08/i-spoke-at-our-pta-about-games

    Here at CA we are also involved with...
    http://www.gamesambassadors.org.uk/ and are looking to help out at schools to help educate about games, talk to PTAs etc.

    Anyway, that's my lot on this.
  • DEElekgolo
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    DEElekgolo interpolator
    So what if kids just play 17 of those rated games but hold off on the 18th one so they don't get in trouble
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    12, 14, 16 year olds are kids and have no business playing violence-porn games. And I am justified in having an opinion on that because when those kids grow up, I will have to deal with them, if not directly, then indirectly, as voters, as parents, as collegues, as union members, etc. No one is an island these days.

    A bit clairvoyant there are you. We all have fun talking about how we as kids played violent games, watched violent movies and read scary books. But for the most we all turned out pretty okay.
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