So I've scrapped my spiderling. I didn't realise that I would need to animate it rather than just skin it to the existing skeleton so I've just written it off as practice. However, if I've got to animate something I'd much rather do a courier so I've been working on this little bugger:
It's obviously early days, I still need to think of some ways to make the backpack more interesting (ornate clasp? visible equipment?), remake the legs, detail everything and figure out how I'm going to do the flying form. I'm probably going to have wings pop up out of the backpack, but I'm unsure whether I want them to be visible in the walking form or not.
This was largely an exercise in sculpting fur while waiting for next months competition, but now that I've got him this far I'd love to finish him!
Wait, aren't you Australian Bronto? How do you even go out of the house with a fear of spiders?!
On a related note, the spiderling looks a bit too small in my opinion, with the legs that close to the body, it's gonna be hard to read from the game camera. At a glance, it might just blur into a blob skittering across the ground. I love the face though, adorable! Don't you just wanna give it a kiss-aaaaaaah IT'S EATING MY FACE. IT'S. EATING. MY. FACE.
I think you might be right about the legs, Sputnik. I've been trying to keep the legs fairly close to the body as I feel that keeping it's footprint small will help it to look more cuddly, but I can probably afford to spread them out a bit and make them a bit smaller/thinner. I'll see what I come up with today!
That gave me the chills, I'm not sure if it is actually making the sound, but when it falls and presumably runs away is terrifying.
Hudston: I love the look of the spider, how big will it be ingame? Could you somehow incorporate a web into the flying design? e.g. it's web thread coming out and attached to a flying device (a balloon for example), so it looks like it is hanging from it's web like this:
(sorry to any arachnophobes)
I imagine it would make for some quite nice animations when it comes to a stop etc.
I've made some adjustments to the legs which helps, they also obscure less of the body now which is nice. I'm detailing them as we speak but I'm finding it surprisingly difficult. I want them to be fluffy like in the gif Bronto posted, especially the palps, but I run the risk of having too much fur and very little contrast in the textures.
As for the flying form, I had considered something like that MdK. It's pretty close to how spiders manage to float on a breeze in real life but it might not look great from a top down view. I'll do some sketches when I'm done with the body and see what it looks like!
I've made some adjustments to the legs which helps, they also obscure less of the body now which is nice. I'm detailing them as we speak but I'm finding it surprisingly difficult. I want them to be fluffy like in the gif Bronto posted, especially the palps, but I run the risk of having too much fur and very little contrast in the textures.
As for the flying form, I had considered something like that MdK. It's pretty close to how spiders manage to float on a breeze in real life but it might not look great from a top down view. I'll do some sketches when I'm done with the body and see what it looks like!
Man, if I had some extra time I'd love to animate that. It's so cute and scary at the same time! :thumbup:
Thanks Andrew! I really appreciate all the comments, guys!
Here's some progress on the highpoly. I think I'm done with the body, I just need to do something interesting with the backpack now.
Obviously the legs are splayed out so that I can retopologize it properly, but even in this pose it seems to look ok from the sort of angle and scale it'll be in game.
Considering that's a jumping spider, make its death animation be a reflexive leap forward and die in mid-air, scare the pants off anyone that killed it.
If you could add a screeching sound effect it would be even better XD.
I like mrpresidents idea, but you should maybe add two then, one more normal one, and then the one he says, just for safety (if you pick his idea of course)
Yup, I love peacock spiders! This is more of a generic jumping spider, I was lucky enough to find a live jumping spider on my desk for reference when I started making this. They're terrific little animals.
High poly done!
Here's a top down shot so you can see the wing texture (it's going to be mirrored so I've only sculpted it onto the top of the wings) and the new backpack:
I wanted to have him carrying some items from the shop, and after that gif I couldn't help myself, so I made up a drum of endurance for him, but I haven't been able to get it on the model without it being either too small or daft looking. Thoughts?
Low Poly done (or not. Every time I say that I end up tweaking something)! All that's left now is to texture this little bugger and figure out how to get him moving.
Craptastic Maya screenshots, go!
And one from a more "in game" angle and size:
It's almost 5am. There is a possibility that I might be enjoying this too much. :shifty:
It's a shame about the drum. I couldn't find a decent place to put it on the model, there was almost no room for it in terms of polys and absolutely no room for it on the texture map. I loved the idea but it just wasn't meant to be.
I had some time this afternoon to work on the textures. I decided to figure out values before working on a colour scheme and this is what I came up with next to the default courier for comparison.
I'm going to give him some kind of pattern or marking on his face just to break it up a bit. I'm not sure what those are going to be just yet so I hastily added some darker lines to his face just to see what the values looked like. Needs more contrast in places I think.
As always, feedback is more than welcome. I'm still really new at this (largely just making it up as I go along) so any tips would be great!
EDIT: It'd help if I posted the screenshots without Maya's terrible default lighting! All better now.
I still haven't settled on a colour scheme. I did find some time today to paint in some texture over a temporary colour and give him some eyes. I really, really want to finish this tomorrow so I need to stop being indecisive soon. :poly127:
I may redo the wings. I'd like for the web to integrate into the branches better and I think I can do a better job of making the web look more, uhm... webby? It'll be an interesting challenge though, I've never had to make changes to something after getting this far.
It's from a set of Matcaps from thegnomonworkshop.com, I got them recently and they're absolutely fantastic!
I have tested that colour scheme, Bronto, but it's not quite right. I think I'll play with it some more to see if I can come up with a version that fits DOTA's art style better, it probably just needs to be a touch more saturated.
I couldn't get the facial patterns to work so I just scrapped them altogether and went with a simpler colour scheme. I think I'm done with the textures now, still need to put the masks together but that shouldn't be too much of an issue!
Let me know what you think!
And here's a shot placed over a screenshot of the radiant fountain just for some context. I think it reads well. The palps blend with the front legs a little bit, but when animated they'll be held forward in front of the face so it shouldn't be much of an issue.
I've been toying with the idea of using alpha on the wings, it's a case of whether I can cut holes in the design that work well as I didn't sculpt the wings with alpha in mind. You're right though, I think it would be more visually interesting with some holes in the web. I might resculpt the webbing if I can't get it working.
I have a newfound respect for all you animators. I decided to attempt to rig and animate my spider, if only for practice while I look for someone who knows what they're doing, and I've finally rigged and skinned it after no less than 6 attempts.
Trial and error isn't the best way to learn animation, it seems. :poly121:
May take a break from my courier if I don't solve the animation problem soon. I really want to crack on with my medusa set for the competition this month!
Animating is a much bigger mountain than I have time to climb right now, especially when there's item sets to make! Here's a concept for a medusa set that I'm working on:
Well, I have to say that attempting an 8 legged creature as your first rig/animation is asking for headaches
Most people start with simple objects, move up to bipeds (and stop), with a special masochistic few going for quadrupeds...
Having said that - don't give up on the spider animation!
Spiders in particular have a very unique way of walking - more of a push/pull with front and rear legs, while the side 4 take up the slack.
Good luck on it.
The Medusa concept looks decent. I like the direction.
Yeah, it wasn't really my first choice when it comes to learning animation! The courier largely just started as an excuse to model a jumping spider and the animation part was one of those "I'll cross that bridge when I get to it" situations. I got as far as rigging it and doing a makeshift walk cycle, it didn't go that badly to be honest but I ran into some unexpected problems with my rig so I'll have to start over.
Unless I get a sudden burst of enthusiasm (stranger things have happened!) I'm probably going to look for someone to collaborate with on the courier for the final animations, I've asked around but everyone seems to be pretty busy right now. I'm so happy with the model that I'd hate to spoil it with my sub par animation so it can wait I suppose.
Thanks for the encouragement, though! That sort of thing really keeps me going!
I have a love/hate relationship with learning new things. I've spent two afternoons animating a walk cycle for the spider, each time learning a ton of new skills. New skills immediately make me aware of ways I could improve the animation or the rig, which ultimately leads me to start over from scratch. There's no such thing as bad practice.
I think I've got it down now. Will I have something to show tomorrow? We'll see!
Cute! Maybe add a bit more character into the 'hands' , they're relatively still at the moment. And if the flap on the backpack could flap up and down a bit, that'd be awesome!
i'd definitely like to see a little more "bounce" in his body, he's pretty detached from his legs in the way he's moving. a shot from more of a in-game type view might help, though.
Finally stopped noodling around and finished the walk cycle. Still tons to do but at least I feel like I'm making progress!
Behold! A horribly rendered gif!
The couriers movement speed is pretty fast, I was really surprised by how fast I had to have his legs move to keep up!
I think the legs are well animated and look nice, however I think the body is very very floaty right now, once you tighten up the animation this will be a great cycle. Also, just as an experiment, rotate the head up a bit, I think the way it is now you'll lose the eyes in the ingame perspective. You need to make those big cute eyes shine! Great start though! Really solid base. :thumbup:
Spudniks suggestion is a really good idea, that would add so much to the animations.
All valuable feedback, thanks guys! You're definitely right about the body, I'll speed it up a little so that it matches the legs a bit more, the palps need some work too.
I can't tell you how much effort has gone into this at this point! Just over a week ago I had zero experience with animation so I've been constantly making mistakes and having to start over. I've basically spent a week learning how not to animate. :poly124:
I've just fallen into another trap with it. I tried importing the animation into the game and it just wasn't working, when I did get it in game it was skewed and tilted. Turns out I'd done something I shouldn't have with the rig and it'll probably be easier for me to start the walk cycle over than it will be for me to figure out how to fix it. Shouldn't take long though, I know exactly how I got it to that point. I'll take another stab at it tomorrow.
Fixed the rig and now my animations import correctly. I remade the walk cycle this morning and (hopefully) took all your feedback into consideration. Here's a gif from a more in game perspective/scale:
Here's an idle animation for him. I'm looking forward to the idle rare, I've kept having to tone down his idle animations so they weren't so obviously repetitive!
Does anyone know how the rare run works? Is it just the same as the idle rare, i.e. every so often it plays the rare animations between the regular animation cycle? If so, I think I'll do a quick hop animation for him. A jumping spider that doesn't jump is just wrong!
Here's an idle animation for him. I'm looking forward to the idle rare, I've kept having to tone down his idle animations so they weren't so obviously repetitive!
Does anyone know how the rare run works? Is it just the same as the idle rare, i.e. every so often it plays the rare animations between the regular animation cycle? If so, I think I'll do a quick hop animation for him. A jumping spider that doesn't jump is just wrong!
About the walk cycle, it looks great, but I think what you need to do is just take the curves and exaggerate the body movement a bit more, no new keys or anything. Right now from the in game new the body is very static, but that's only because the body moves very subtly. It's a very small adjustment and should only take a minute to fix. That's something I learned very quickly about DOTAs animation style, body animations need to be slightly exaggerated since the characters are very small on the screen. Small subtle movements, while they look nice up close, are completely lost in game.
The rare animations work just like that, I also believe you can edit the .qc and change the ratio of when that animation plays to another. By default I believe its something like 3:1, base:rare. As far as the animations go, you're making great progress. The idle animation is very solid and I really don't have any critiques. The only thing I could say to experiment with that could make it even more cute is if you made it have a bit more energy and move somewhat more sporadically.
About the frame count, there are no limitations. Most of my cycles average around 200-400 frames. But I have gone well over that. A few wards I've done are around 600 frames, and the most recent netherward I did was something like 1000 frames.
Keep up the great work dude, this courier is really shaping up! :thumbup:
Here's an idle animation for him. I'm looking forward to the idle rare, I've kept having to tone down his idle animations so they weren't so obviously repetitive!
Does anyone know how the rare run works? Is it just the same as the idle rare, i.e. every so often it plays the rare animations between the regular animation cycle? If so, I think I'll do a quick hop animation for him. A jumping spider that doesn't jump is just wrong!
This is awesome! For someone who hasn't had much experience with animation, you're doing amazing! Something that might help you is the 12 principles of animation which is the academic basis of most animation today. Some of them are more specific to 2D art, among other things, but the stuff about Follow Through, Squash and Stretch, Slow in/out, and Arcs is good stuff. From what I understand, "most" Pixar and Disney animators among others regard them as the 12 Commandments of Animation.
Personally, I think there's a little more heart in an animation when you take them less as rules/laws and more as suggestions based on what you're animating. Yours are definitely coming along great. As long as the animations look fine in-game, you should be golden.
I don't know if I want to kill it with fire, or snuggle with it. That is the most terrifying thing about this lil critter.
Replies
It's obviously early days, I still need to think of some ways to make the backpack more interesting (ornate clasp? visible equipment?), remake the legs, detail everything and figure out how I'm going to do the flying form. I'm probably going to have wings pop up out of the backpack, but I'm unsure whether I want them to be visible in the walking form or not.
This was largely an exercise in sculpting fur while waiting for next months competition, but now that I've got him this far I'd love to finish him!
On a related note, the spiderling looks a bit too small in my opinion, with the legs that close to the body, it's gonna be hard to read from the game camera. At a glance, it might just blur into a blob skittering across the ground. I love the face though, adorable! Don't you just wanna give it a kiss-aaaaaaah IT'S EATING MY FACE. IT'S. EATING. MY. FACE.
...I'll show myself out.
Because They're bigger inside
[ame="
(just for you bronto :poly121: *snicker*)
I think you might be right about the legs, Sputnik. I've been trying to keep the legs fairly close to the body as I feel that keeping it's footprint small will help it to look more cuddly, but I can probably afford to spread them out a bit and make them a bit smaller/thinner. I'll see what I come up with today!
That gave me the chills, I'm not sure if it is actually making the sound, but when it falls and presumably runs away is terrifying.
Hudston: I love the look of the spider, how big will it be ingame? Could you somehow incorporate a web into the flying design? e.g. it's web thread coming out and attached to a flying device (a balloon for example), so it looks like it is hanging from it's web like this:
(sorry to any arachnophobes)
I imagine it would make for some quite nice animations when it comes to a stop etc.
As for the flying form, I had considered something like that MdK. It's pretty close to how spiders manage to float on a breeze in real life but it might not look great from a top down view. I'll do some sketches when I'm done with the body and see what it looks like!
Man, if I had some extra time I'd love to animate that. It's so cute and scary at the same time! :thumbup:
Here's some progress on the highpoly. I think I'm done with the body, I just need to do something interesting with the backpack now.
Obviously the legs are splayed out so that I can retopologize it properly, but even in this pose it seems to look ok from the sort of angle and scale it'll be in game.
Thoughts?
If you could add a screeching sound effect it would be even better XD.
Would be pretty awesome if valve allowed it.
Peacock spider
And the same spiders on youtube
So many mixed emotions!
High poly done!
Here's a top down shot so you can see the wing texture (it's going to be mirrored so I've only sculpted it onto the top of the wings) and the new backpack:
I wanted to have him carrying some items from the shop, and after that gif I couldn't help myself, so I made up a drum of endurance for him, but I haven't been able to get it on the model without it being either too small or daft looking. Thoughts?
Even if you can't find a way to incorporate it into the actual design you have to at least use it for promotional purposes!
Craptastic Maya screenshots, go!
And one from a more "in game" angle and size:
It's almost 5am. There is a possibility that I might be enjoying this too much. :shifty:
It's a shame about the drum. I couldn't find a decent place to put it on the model, there was almost no room for it in terms of polys and absolutely no room for it on the texture map. I loved the idea but it just wasn't meant to be.
I'm going to give him some kind of pattern or marking on his face just to break it up a bit. I'm not sure what those are going to be just yet so I hastily added some darker lines to his face just to see what the values looked like. Needs more contrast in places I think.
As always, feedback is more than welcome. I'm still really new at this (largely just making it up as I go along) so any tips would be great!
EDIT: It'd help if I posted the screenshots without Maya's terrible default lighting! All better now.
I may redo the wings. I'd like for the web to integrate into the branches better and I think I can do a better job of making the web look more, uhm... webby? It'll be an interesting challenge though, I've never had to make changes to something after getting this far.
As always, I'd love to hear your input!
Have you tested the colour scheme of the gif spider?
Also, sorry if it's a dumb question, but what's that pink-ish material you're using? It's ZBrush, right? The rim lighting on it looks sweet.
I have tested that colour scheme, Bronto, but it's not quite right. I think I'll play with it some more to see if I can come up with a version that fits DOTA's art style better, it probably just needs to be a touch more saturated.
Let me know what you think!
And here's a shot placed over a screenshot of the radiant fountain just for some context. I think it reads well. The palps blend with the front legs a little bit, but when animated they'll be held forward in front of the face so it shouldn't be much of an issue.
Edit: Any way to get alpha on those wings?
Trial and error isn't the best way to learn animation, it seems. :poly121:
May take a break from my courier if I don't solve the animation problem soon. I really want to crack on with my medusa set for the competition this month!
Most people start with simple objects, move up to bipeds (and stop), with a special masochistic few going for quadrupeds...
Having said that - don't give up on the spider animation!
Spiders in particular have a very unique way of walking - more of a push/pull with front and rear legs, while the side 4 take up the slack.
Good luck on it.
The Medusa concept looks decent. I like the direction.
Unless I get a sudden burst of enthusiasm (stranger things have happened!) I'm probably going to look for someone to collaborate with on the courier for the final animations, I've asked around but everyone seems to be pretty busy right now. I'm so happy with the model that I'd hate to spoil it with my sub par animation so it can wait I suppose.
Thanks for the encouragement, though! That sort of thing really keeps me going!
I think I've got it down now. Will I have something to show tomorrow? We'll see!
Behold! A horribly rendered gif!
The couriers movement speed is pretty fast, I was really surprised by how fast I had to have his legs move to keep up!
I think the legs are well animated and look nice, however I think the body is very very floaty right now, once you tighten up the animation this will be a great cycle. Also, just as an experiment, rotate the head up a bit, I think the way it is now you'll lose the eyes in the ingame perspective. You need to make those big cute eyes shine! Great start though! Really solid base. :thumbup:
Spudniks suggestion is a really good idea, that would add so much to the animations.
I can't tell you how much effort has gone into this at this point! Just over a week ago I had zero experience with animation so I've been constantly making mistakes and having to start over. I've basically spent a week learning how not to animate. :poly124:
I've just fallen into another trap with it. I tried importing the animation into the game and it just wasn't working, when I did get it in game it was skewed and tilted. Turns out I'd done something I shouldn't have with the rig and it'll probably be easier for me to start the walk cycle over than it will be for me to figure out how to fix it. Shouldn't take long though, I know exactly how I got it to that point. I'll take another stab at it tomorrow.
@spudnik
I love the idea about the flap, but the bag is all one piece on the model and I have no more bones to work with!
Best feedback ever!
Probably a good idea, I've added a bit of sway to his gaze too.
Is there any sort of limit or recommend number of frames for a walk cycle? I could have him looking around a bit more if I made the animation longer.
Does anyone know how the rare run works? Is it just the same as the idle rare, i.e. every so often it plays the rare animations between the regular animation cycle? If so, I think I'll do a quick hop animation for him. A jumping spider that doesn't jump is just wrong!
About the walk cycle, it looks great, but I think what you need to do is just take the curves and exaggerate the body movement a bit more, no new keys or anything. Right now from the in game new the body is very static, but that's only because the body moves very subtly. It's a very small adjustment and should only take a minute to fix. That's something I learned very quickly about DOTAs animation style, body animations need to be slightly exaggerated since the characters are very small on the screen. Small subtle movements, while they look nice up close, are completely lost in game.
The rare animations work just like that, I also believe you can edit the .qc and change the ratio of when that animation plays to another. By default I believe its something like 3:1, base:rare. As far as the animations go, you're making great progress. The idle animation is very solid and I really don't have any critiques. The only thing I could say to experiment with that could make it even more cute is if you made it have a bit more energy and move somewhat more sporadically.
About the frame count, there are no limitations. Most of my cycles average around 200-400 frames. But I have gone well over that. A few wards I've done are around 600 frames, and the most recent netherward I did was something like 1000 frames.
Keep up the great work dude, this courier is really shaping up! :thumbup:
charming... Damn. Love it!
This is awesome! For someone who hasn't had much experience with animation, you're doing amazing! Something that might help you is the 12 principles of animation which is the academic basis of most animation today. Some of them are more specific to 2D art, among other things, but the stuff about Follow Through, Squash and Stretch, Slow in/out, and Arcs is good stuff. From what I understand, "most" Pixar and Disney animators among others regard them as the 12 Commandments of Animation.
Personally, I think there's a little more heart in an animation when you take them less as rules/laws and more as suggestions based on what you're animating. Yours are definitely coming along great. As long as the animations look fine in-game, you should be golden.
I don't know if I want to kill it with fire, or snuggle with it. That is the most terrifying thing about this lil critter.
Here's the spawn animation: