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[Dota2] - Nyx Assassin - Pretty Ladybird

1
Decided to wrap it up. I like where I ended and won't have time for a misc item. Made a presentation and submitted everything to the workshop - it is nice to see the final result up there.

Thanks for all the kind words and feedback - you guys helped a alot!

Evolution_set.png?_cache=1353972181
Claws_presentation.png?_cache=1353972206
Horn_presentation.png?_cache=1353972229
Carapace_presentation.png?_cache=1353972258

Thanks for watching.



_______________________________________________________________________________________

shell_paint_ingame_back.png?_cache=1353360604

I will try and make it redder/lighter to pull it out more, but it shares space with the main shell.

weapon_paint_ingame_1.png?_cache=1352834416


Headupdate:

head_paint_ingame_2.png?_cache=1352153053
head_paint_ingame.png?_cache=1352146896


shell_paint_ingame.png?_cache=1351355871

Replies

  • JGcount
    Okay, got something to show now.

    Nyx%20Assassin_ladybird_concept_001.png?_cache=1349884065

    Now, I have been reading around and it seems Valve are alot more strict with Dota2 item themes than in TF2. Do you think this direction will fly?

    A ladybird seems to match the colour scheme of Nyx Assassin perfectly(its armor parts are already orange-red and yellow)

    I am going to take the head in a rhino-beetle direction, while still keeping the rorshach feel of the ladybird. (getting a nice Venom feel right now).

    Everything is my initial thoughts and I expect the shapes, especially the head, to change alot when I get to jam some silhuettes.

    Let me hear what you think.
    Thanks
  • Qwiggalo
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    Qwiggalo polycounter lvl 8
    A good rule to follow is take real world inspiration, don't mimic real world. But of course, rules are meant to be broken.

    Another rule would be to learn your hero and his role and his personality. Giving him this look gives him a 'lady bug' personality, the bright red just doesn't fit because he is an assassin. Trying to blend in, not trying to stand out.

    If anything I would take inspiration from a preying mantis, those things are just cool as shit.
  • RossC
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    RossC polycounter lvl 9
    Hmm, I'm a bit iffy on the idea, but I think it could still work. Maybe make the "ladybug" spots more angular, pointed circles rather than full on circles? Maybe even near blade like silhouettes on the ladybug portion? Also take that reference photo with the ladybug with a more dirty shell into consideration, it looks far more gritty, perfect for nyx. It would keep the ladybug look but kind of twist it into Nyx Assassin's theme.

    Also careful with the wings, I don't think Nyx Assassin's model is compatible with Alpha Maps.
  • Swordz
    I don't want to burst your bubble but people doesn't want silly items on dota 2 and i think valve too. They raged so much at the cowboy ursa (i know it's not a cowboy.) set that it was removed, and now the robot broodmother will probably not get added too.
  • Qwiggalo
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    Qwiggalo polycounter lvl 8
    RossC wrote: »
    Hmm, I'm a bit iffy on the idea, but I think it could still work. Maybe make the "ladybug" spots more angular, pointed circles rather than full on circles? Maybe even near blade like silhouettes on the ladybug portion? Also take that reference photo with the ladybug with a more dirty shell into consideration, it looks far more gritty, perfect for nyx. It would keep the ladybug look but kind of twist it into Nyx Assassin's theme.

    Also careful with the wings, I don't think Nyx Assassin's model is compatible with Alpha Maps.

    The wings don't need to be transparent to read right. The red and the shininess of a ladybug's shell is the problem not the shape of the dots.
  • Spudnik
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    Spudnik polycounter lvl 11
    JGcount wrote: »
    Do you think this direction will fly?

    I see what you did there ;) But to be frank, I don't think its quite at a point yet where it fits the Dota theme. I like the idea of the rhino beetle, for the head, maybe look into some more "badass" beetles (:D) like that and have them influence your design more than a "cute" ladybug. Nyx is, as the name suggests, an assassin - too bright colors aren't his thing. He's more of a nasty "rogues-do-it-from-behind" kinda hero.
  • RossC
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    RossC polycounter lvl 9
    Qwiggalo wrote: »
    The wings don't need to be transparent to read right. The red and the shininess of a ladybug's shell is the problem not the shape of the dots.

    I don't know, maybe I enjoy the juxtaposition of it all, but I think the concept can work if it reworks it. A Dark Blood Red color can fit Nyx Assassin just fine. I still feel if the spots are less traditional ladybug and more twisted and angular along with a more gritty dirty coat it would be a really cool concept.
  • JGcount
    Interesting - all of it.

    It seems the whole point of my idea is what makes it not work.

    I WANT it to be a bit more lose and silly than he is. That's the appeal to me, and also my concern in what I wrote. It interesting that this isnt popular in the Dota2 scene? Personally, I play LoL and I love the sillyness in the skins(and the game in general)

    Oh, and about the red: I colour picked it from Nyx's original armor.

    I'll wait and get some more thoughts and then probably see/rework the thing tomorrow.

    Thanks guys
  • Qwiggalo
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    Qwiggalo polycounter lvl 8
    JGcount wrote: »
    Interesting - all of it.

    It seems the whole point of my idea is what makes it not work.

    I WANT it to be a bit more lose and silly than he is. That's the appeal to me, and also my concern in what I wrote. It interesting that this isnt popular in the Dota2 scene? Personally, I play LoL and I love the sillyness in the skins(and the game in general)

    Oh, and about the red: I colour picked it from Nyx's original armor.

    I'll wait and get some more thoughts and then probably see/rework the thing tomorrow.

    Thanks guys

    Just like in Left 4 Dead, Valve are trying to tell the story through the game's environment and audio. The cosmetics are helping develop the story of each hero further.

    That red is not the same as the red you see in game.

    Dota2_Nyx05.jpg
  • JGcount
    I am all for story and getting involved - I guess it just feels odd for me to focus that much on that in a DoTA game (especially compared to L4D).

    Can anyone redirect me to somewhere I can read about these thematic guidelines and/or a discussion regarding the mentioned Cowboy Ursa where someone from valve in involved?
  • Spudnik
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    Spudnik polycounter lvl 11
    JGcount wrote: »
    Personally, I play LoL and I love the sillyness in the skins(and the game in general)

    FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN, RUN! RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN! In case you don't know, there's deep rivalries between Dota, Hon and LoL, with the different artsyles certainly being part of the equation. In other words, Dota players "don't dake kindly to them LoL players 'round 'ere!"
  • JGcount
    Haha oh I know.

    LoL is ugly as shit imo, but it's a better game(again, imo). I don't like the lack of ability power(spell damage) in Dota. In LoL, the heroes just seem more different.

    Dota 2 is one of the most beautiful games ever, however.
  • Qwiggalo
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    Qwiggalo polycounter lvl 8
    The lack of ability power is what makes Dota better than LoL. The items active abilities are what make them important.

    It also gives a limit to the roles each hero can be, in LoL pretty much every champion can be a carry.
  • JGcount
    True, Qwiggalo. In the end, I just think it's whatever you got hooked on first. I never got on the original DoTA train - LoL was my first laner and now the others just dont do the same for me.
  • Qwiggalo
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    Qwiggalo polycounter lvl 8
    I had never played Dota 1, but I did play LoL for a long time but once Dota 2 came out I got really into it. Even went to this years international.

    I think if you give Dota a chance you'll find it supplies a much greater challenge and keeps your mind much more active than LoL, I found LoL's laning phase to be unbearably boring and the runes and skill builds are bad game design.
  • JGcount
    Well, this entire contest is already doing alot for me to want to get into Dota2

    Also, tried to take all the things you guys have been suggesting into concideration here:

    -Made him more predatorial(made the spots look more like tiger stripes/wasp spots - thanks RossC)
    -Pulled the colour more towards orange, across the board.
    -Made his head more aggressive and beetle like
    -Added more spikes to pincers like a mantis(thanks Qwiggalo)
    Nyx%20Assassin_ladybird_concept_002.png?_cache=1349891839


    More comments are welcome. Thanks!
  • Some Jerk
    Oooh, I'm starting to get some starship troopers vibes now. I like it.
  • Qwiggalo
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    Qwiggalo polycounter lvl 8
    That's better.
  • mrpresident
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    mrpresident polycounter lvl 10
    The new design is much much better. If you played the game you'd know that nyx is a vicious little bugger and "pretty" doesn't suit him.

    Also, I'm with Qwiggalo on this one. Not to turn this into a "Dota vs LoL" thread but I never got into dota 1, played LoL for hundreds of hours, then stopped playing when I realized that the only reason I was still playing was to grind champion and rune unlocks because the game itself bored me.

    I've currently put more than double the amount of hours I sunk into LoL into Dota 2 in half the time and I'm still learning new tricks and strategies at the same rate as when I started, and I constantly see things I've never seen before. LoL is much more accessible for beginners, but Riot's fear of new players ragequitting when faced with a challenge instead of trusting in the player to think about what went wrong and try to come up with a counter-strategy... made them design/nerf everything into a blandness where almost all the champion's skills are identical to each other. How many melee champions have a 1) gap closing ability 2) some sort of stun/slow and 3) a defensive ability, either heal, shield, dodge etc and the only thing that makes them different from other melee champions is their ultimate and visual aesthetic?

    In dota no two heroes are even remotely similar to each other in skill design or playstyle... and every hero picked on a team will wildly change how that match is going to play out. Which is why it's so important that you can play any hero you want whenever you want, and players that have been playing longer don't get a stats advantage to new players, and no flash. Seriously, screw flash, a get out of jail free card every 6 minutes at no cost to the player is such terrible design. In dota if you want the equivalent of flash you need to farm up the gold and use an item slot on it.

    The biggest problem with dota is that as a new player you will suck, and you will suck hard, for awhile. It has a steep learning curve but my god was it worth climbing; probably the most rewarding experience in competitive gaming I've ever had.

    Ok, very sorry to hijack your thread for a minute there, I honestly didn't mean to write that much and it kindof got out of hand. This is something I've had on my mind for months but haven't been able to put to words until now.

    Your updated set does look great, I really like the orange. Maybe look at some more poisonous insects for more inspiration.
  • Ex4000
    JGcount wrote: »
    Well, this entire contest is already doing alot for me to want to get into Dota2

    Also, tried to take all the things you guys have been suggesting into concideration here:

    -Made him more predatorial(made the spots look more like tiger stripes/wasp spots - thanks RossC)
    -Pulled the colour more towards orange, across the board.
    -Made his head more aggressive and beetle like
    -Added more spikes to pincers like a mantis(thanks Qwiggalo)
    Nyx%20Assassin_ladybird_concept_002.png?_cache=1349891839


    More comments are welcome. Thanks!

    Much much better, The only crit I can give is lose the wings
  • Arkadius
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    Arkadius polycounter lvl 13
    Honestly I like the idea a whole lot more it contrasted very well with him as an assassin and almost makes it seem like a disguise. His ultimate also is an infiltration type ability. Just my 2 cents
  • Starboxx
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    Starboxx polycounter lvl 11
    Just one thing : Waw

    Best idea i've seen so far !
  • dfanton
    A massive improvement on your original concept. If this gets in, I may end up buying it. :P
  • Skedesovs
    This looks sick good job so far.

    Maybe you could add a stinger to his butt :)
  • JGcount
    Been working a bit with some silhuettes, but I am a bit unsure what direction to take it. I am hoping you guys can help me out.

    What I want for this set is to be a natural, and not crafted, armor for Nyx. As if he evolved and became even more predatorial retaining the feel I had in my latest concept.

    Nyx_silhuettes.png

    Top one: Very clean shapes and solid
    bot one: More zerg'y and complex, layered shapes


    What direction do you like the most?
  • Some Jerk
    I like the top. The bottom one looks way too stiff.
  • Pierate
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    Pierate polycounter lvl 15
    I agree, the top one looks better, although I'm not liking the claw too much. Definately like the idea of natural carapace, it's what I would've done if I had not gone for Doom Bringer instead. Keep it up.
  • xandrex
  • Y_M
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    Y_M polycounter lvl 10
    I'm digging the top one. the clean crisp shapes give it great clarity, stuff is getting a bit muddy in the bottom one.
  • Hang10
    I think the latest thumbnails are a little too close to Anu'barack from Warcraft 3: FT.
    I love it but I'm just concerned about it being too similar.
  • JGcount
    Thanks for the feedback guys

    Hang, I know what you mean but I am pretty sure that will change with the colour/patterns I have in mind. I'll keep it in the back of my head though - thanks
  • JGcount
    Okay, so I am back home and got some sculpting done.

    Decided to go somewhere inbetween. It says in Nyx' bio that his claws are like sharp blades, so I want to work with his already existing plating, beef it up and play with contrasting blade like chittin. Here's my present head sculpt:

    headSculpt_01.png?_cache=1350245600
  • JGcount
    I am going for something inbetween the layered and clean plated look. Texturing is was is going to break it up.

    Nyx%20Assassin_predatorsshell_v01.png?_cache=1350845242

    So this is where I am right now. Liking the direction but all comments are welcome
  • JGcount
    Refined some shapes and reworked the root of the claws. Im starting to like how it all fits together. Also added some small "knee" things that will go in the "misch" catagory.


    Nyx%20Assassin_predatorsshell_v02.png?_cache=1350932758

    Debating weather or not I should add somekind of shoulder-shell pieces. Whatchathink?
  • Some Jerk
    Sometimes the best way to tell is to just do it and see if the end result is pleasing.
  • Futashia
    ^ honestly, your concept is great so far and you're making fast progress, you have a LOT of time left. I say go for it. If it STILL doesn't feel right, you still have plenty of time to make any fixes and adjustments
  • JGcount
    Okay, so I added secondary details to break up the clean shapes and make it feel more organic than metal.

    Evolved%20Predator.png?_cache=1351281618

    Also started working on the back shell. Lopoly and baked, working on texture. 90% done with that I would say. Still trying to figure out if I should add a pattern of some sort, but I think I will wait with taht till I have all parts at 90% textured.

    shell_paint.png?_cache=1351281761
  • JGcount
    Finally satisfied with the back carapace and the subtle patterns - and I got it in game. Took a bit og trial an error, but now I got the uploading workflow down so should speed up the other two pieces.

    shell_paint_ingame.png?_cache=1351355871
  • BrontoThunder
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    BrontoThunder polycounter lvl 13
    Beautiful texturing work, it looks like you've really utilised the mask layers to their utmost potential too.

    Good job getting it in-game, the first one is absolutely the hardest - it gets exponentially easier as you do it.
  • danidem
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    danidem polycounter lvl 11
    Looks so beautiful in-game!! :)
  • Spudnik
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    Spudnik polycounter lvl 11
    Yeah man, that looks like a 1k texture in-game! /jealous
  • hannes d
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    hannes d polycounter lvl 12
    best nyx I've seen till now
    looking forward how it will look
    the only thing I do not like are the overlapping scales on the weapon
    maybe add some spikes on your blade, or use 2 or 1 scale
    now it's like all the detail is in the handle
    and the blade is kinda flat
  • JGcount
    Thanks for the kind words, guys. Very motivating.

    Hannes, I get what you mean but I wanna try and flush all the items out now since I only have 2 weeks left to work on them. I plan on having all 3 items done this week, and one extra week to polish and maybe add more stuff(thinking of the legs and ass here)

    got the head texture done as well now, and ingame. Having problems with the "tint spec by color" mask. I have no clue where it is getting that brown color from. Will have to look into that. Also seems like the head needs to be a bit more red to fit the shell.

    head_paint_ingame.png?_cache=1352146896
  • hannes d
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    hannes d polycounter lvl 12
    note that if you look at the default armor
    the back armor is more saturated and a little darker then the helm armor
    especially visible in the yellow,
    maybe there is some kind of special shading on the head ?
  • JGcount
    You are definately right in that the same rules that apply to the back does not apply to the head, in terms of masks. Had to fiddle ALOT more with them. Already have a quick update. Turned out for the better, mefinks.

    head_paint_ingame_2.png?_cache=1352153053
  • hannes d
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    hannes d polycounter lvl 12
    looking way better,
    any chance you share what the differences were ?
    could come in handy for me :)
  • JGcount
    Ofc. Firstly, I added more colour to the diffuse and also lid up the fron of the face. Secondly, I made my mask 2 a mix between the one I had made for the shell, and the masks for the weapons.

    Also found out that the mask 1 channel 3(metal) is very sensitive together with the specular.
  • Naso
    This masks situation sounds like a big headache if you are not valve! But good job on the textures tho, they look really amazing so far.
  • JGcount
    Aaaaand I finished the weapon and got it ingame.

    weapon_paint_ingame_1.png?_cache=1352834416

    This leaves me with almost a week for a bit of polish, and a possible 4th item(misc catagory - I'm thinking somekind of shell or evolved pincer on his bottocks)

    Comments appreciated as always.
  • Pina
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    Pina polycounter lvl 5
    Awesome set!
    My opinion would be to lower the white painted on the edge of the weapons and tip of the head and try to achieve that result more in-game with the specular+rim masks.
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