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RedLight Scout (Vehicle Modeling)

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Razgriz keyframe
So, though I'm quite far into the modeling stage (75% or so), I thought I would post my progress on my latest model. I found the amazing concept on conceptships.org a while ago by some guy named leo lasfargue, who I can't really find anywhere else on the internet. As is evident, I choose to do the topmost concept, but they all are pretty insane. I really wanted to challenge my hard-surface modeling skills as much as I could. Anyways, here's what I plan on doing:

1. Finish the high poly by using a kitbash collection of models that I've built over the last couple of years to fill in mechanical details. This is currently saving massive amounts of time, adding tons of cool detail, but it's destroying my framerate and ability to work quickly in max.

2. Take some of the larger metal pieces into Zbrush for sculpting dents and damage.

3. Low poly and bake, which might be hell, hopefully I can stick through this part. I feel like I would have no choice but use a 4k for the amount of detail I want to pack in.

4. Texture exploration, color schemes, the usual.

5. Lastly, I want it to be the centerpiece of a small environment, perhaps a dusty alien planet, with some brief animations. If anyone knows of any tutorials for materials or particles to simulate jet engines in either CryEngine or UDK, I would be more than grateful.

I'm still pretty early in the stages where I can make big modeling changes, so critiques welcome!

leo_01.jpg
test_05.jpg
test_01.jpg
test_02.jpg
test_03.jpg
test_04.jpg

Replies

  • disanski
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    disanski polycounter lvl 14
    damn :) nice work man
  • MrHobo
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    MrHobo polycounter lvl 13
    This is insane!
    Are all the panels and plates I see along the wing and body in the 3rd pic floaters?
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    As far as the wing goes, there are no floaters there, it's all modeled, but the tight, small mechanical detail are psuedo-floaters of sorts - basically all the kitbash models I have from the first image crammed and arranged in various ways.
  • motenai
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    motenai polycounter lvl 18
    F***ing sweet! O_O
  • Lucas Annunziata
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    Lucas Annunziata polycounter lvl 13
    Solid work with the modelling. The workflow you've chosen is really interesting, and I would have never thought try go about it in that manner.

    Another thing that you could do to help out with the texturing is to bake down some greeble normal/ao/cavity maps to flat planes, then just place them where you like on your texture flat, almost like a decal sheet of things to choose from. Yeah, it removes detail from your hi-poly model, but if your computer is chugging and its hard to work with, it may be a good solution.

    I really hope you end up baking it down. Good luck!
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Now, did you make all the floters and kit bashing parts or get them somewhere online?
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    No, it's all 100% my content. All of the parts in the kitbash render that I'm using are all pulled from my prior modeling projects, and things I've thrown together in my free time as practice. I keep a separate max file that I am constantly adding to any time I do hard-surface modeling - it's overwhelmingly helpful for pulling from.
  • Shiniku
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    Shiniku polycounter lvl 9
    David you're a crazy person. This is amazing. You're going to get hired up the instant you graduate.

    Now, you just need to finish this and get the low-poly and etxture work done, then I'll be really impressed!
  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 8
    you da man now Dog!
  • megalmn2000
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    megalmn2000 polycounter lvl 13
    Really nice spaceships!
    I like the overall shapes, silhouette and colors.
    Reminds me of Star Wars and Gears of War.
  • akacg
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    akacg polycounter lvl 12
    I think you have mastered the high poly haha next step
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    Wait, what, you're a student?! o.O That high poly is amazing!!!! Can't wait to see the low and textures!

    p.s. your signature is hilarious xD
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    Ha, yes, I am a student for two more weeks, then I'll be free. I'm counting down the days.

    Here's more modeling progress, as well as a few self-indulgent render. Trying to make something pretty that I can show off the final model in - though I really got caught up doodling around in photoshop too long.

    test_06.jpg
    test_07.jpg
    test_08.jpg
    test_09.jpg
  • beancube
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    beancube polycounter lvl 17
    Killer modelling man, love the render with all the parts layed out!
  • Makkon
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    Makkon polycounter
    test_05.jpg
    Oh man. Explain this kitbash business you mentioned earlier, is it this? Do you have a big library of mechanical details you've already modeled and and you put them together in interesting ways?

    I've got to know, this is fascinating!
  • Lonewolf
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    Lonewolf polycounter lvl 18
    really cool stuff
    love the concept and so far youre doing great job!

    MOAR!
  • Envart
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    Envart polycounter lvl 6
    This is so awesome, absolutely in-love with the design. Really looking forward to seeing how you handle the baking aspect of this, because from here it looks like it's going to be a challenge. Very interested in your workflow within max. Best of luck, it looks fantastic!
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    Thanks for the feedback everyone! Guess I'm on the right track.
    Makkon wrote: »
    Oh man. Explain this kitbash business you mentioned earlier, is it this? Do you have a big library of mechanical details you've already modeled and and you put them together in interesting ways?

    I've got to know, this is fascinating!

    That's pretty much it Makkon, Every time I finish a new model, I take as many pieces as I can and save them in a separate max file. It's invaluable for projects, I just pull whatever crap looks cool and stuff it wherever for insta-detail. Like I said it really starts to chug up my machine and make file sizes huge, but I hide everything on separate layers, and that seems to work ok. Rendering is the only problem, but aside from that, I'm surprised to not see more modelers using a technique like this to pack their mechanical/sci-fi stuff full of information.

    Here's an example - the orange-brownish materials I just arranged from my kitbash file.

    test_011.jpg
    test_012.jpg
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    If it's making your machine chug, you could collapse the stack, remove any loops that aren't doing anything for the smoothing and silhouette and try doing a level of detail for the viewport. Have you tried using XRef?
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    That kitbash method is really smart :0 You save a little more time with each new project!
  • Cordell Felix
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    Cordell Felix polycounter lvl 9
    Love your kitbash idea, I have so many of these little mechanical parts on various projects but i never thought to save them into one file to pull from. I'm for sure gonna start making a little library....it's too tedious to model all that little detail in and im sure its easier to just mock something up to make it LOOK like the concept >_<

    Thanks man, you've helped me before on an old post and you've helped me again here :]
  • wolver
    very interesting technique, do you ever model a singular mechanical piece just because you think you might use it in a future project or is it all cut from older projects?
    if you do ever do that is there a good website you would recommend for random mechanical pieces reference? that would awesome of you if you could
    i want to have a go at making a kit but don't really have any old work to take from : )
  • Irodex
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    Irodex polycounter lvl 18
    Simply awesome. Would love to know more about your render setup?
  • killnpc
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    killnpc polycounter
    Fantastic use of high vs low detail.
  • Electro
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    Electro polycounter lvl 18
    Very nice modeling and renders
  • spiderDude
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    spiderDude polycounter lvl 8
    good sir, I tip my hat to you and that interesting technique and amazing work
  • JamesWarren
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    JamesWarren polycounter lvl 5
    That ship looks incredibly cool! I'm definitely looking forward to seeing it textured and everything.

    I have a question about how people make tubes and wires for high-poly models. What's the best way to make them? Do people generally loft splines with a circular shape? Or is there something else that I don't know about. Those smaller wires that you have in your model look so intricate that it makes me think that you had a pretty good system down for making them.
  • 55joe
  • fearian
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    fearian greentooth
    subscribed! Lovely modelling!
  • BluPanda
    awesome man! thanks for sharing and keep it up!
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    Computron wrote: »
    If it's making your machine chug, you could collapse the stack, remove any loops that aren't doing anything for the smoothing and silhouette and try doing a level of detail for the viewport. Have you tried using XRef?

    I've used Xref for various things, not for that. It's an interesting idea, but I think I would prefer to keep as much editability before collapsing things for exporting to Zbrush, working with layers and Alt-Q for isolate has been working out pretty well so far.
    Love your kitbash idea, I have so many of these little mechanical parts on various projects but i never thought to save them into one file to pull from. I'm for sure gonna start making a little library....it's too tedious to model all that little detail in and im sure its easier to just mock something up to make it LOOK like the concept >_<

    Thanks man, you've helped me before on an old post and you've helped me again here :]

    Exactly - I actually think it works better, a lot of times concepts have "gibberish detail" that you have to figure out what to do with (if not ignore or fake with texture noise), and if you can fill in that information with technically accurate, real, mechanical parts, all the better. I'm very glad that I've been of help to you!

    paintforge wrote: »
    very interesting technique, do you ever model a singular mechanical piece just because you think you might use it in a future project or is it all cut from older projects?
    if you do ever do that is there a good website you would recommend for random mechanical pieces reference? that would awesome of you if you could
    i want to have a go at making a kit but don't really have any old work to take from : )

    Both. I actually started this by just doing google searches for "mechanical parts", "metal pieces", things like that, and finding random photos cool metal parts. To go further, find references of generators, engines, machinery, and pull the most challenging pieces off of them for modeling; if you find yourself doing a lot of them, heck, you could model a whole engine or something for a portfolio, and it's great practice. Eventually, once my modeling got stronger, I added to my kitbash file from projects, not just specific practice models.

    Here are some examples of some images I came up with after a quick google search as examples.

    http://www.kollewin.com/EX/09-16-08/4519d1184601814-performance-parts-prius-prius_exploded.jpg
    http://www.enhancedsinteredproducts.com/pmparts.html
    http://diecasting.china-manufacturer-directory.org/up_files/20100823/Customized-Mechanical-Parts-and-Components.jpg
    Irodex wrote: »
    Simply awesome. Would love to know more about your render setup?

    Basically, two MR sky portals that use mib_blackbody shaders in the light shader for cool and warm temps, with a skylight at .25 intensity. The shader I've been using is a 50/50 blend of a high-gloss light grey and low-gloss matte dark grey arch+design mats.
    I have a question about how people make tubes and wires for high-poly models. What's the best way to make them? Do people generally loft splines with a circular shape? Or is there something else that I don't know about. Those smaller wires that you have in your model look so intricate that it makes me think that you had a pretty good system down for making them.

    I have two ways I usually do wires. The simplest - just render splines as cylinders, it's a checkbox in the spline sub-menu. For the ones I think you mentioned, I actually lined up a dozen cylinders, threw on some noise and twist modifiers, and then took that chunk and used a path-deform modifier to loft it along the spline. It ends up looking very complex, because it's a string of a dozen or so wires running along a single spline. I hope I explained this clearly.

    Thanks for the the kind words, everyone! It's very motivating.
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    Here are some wireframes of the final version of this stage of the modeling, I think I've about added as much detail as I can right now. Tomorrow I'll take it into Zbrush to start beating it up.

    test_013.jpg
    test_014.jpg
    test_015.jpg
    test_016.jpg
    test_017.jpg
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Awesome stuff raz, but aren't a lot of the small kit bash parts going to turn into pixel soup at that size? What resolution are you going for? Im interested in seeing how much of the small detail will be modeled in the low poly since you got some interesting silhouettes

    Also, could you do you show a few close up picture of just the mechanical fill in the wing and the front? With no wireframe and turbosmoothed please.
  • Paul Pepera
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    Paul Pepera polycounter lvl 9
    The designs have strange proportions. The balance and language of the forms in the first vehicle don't look appealing, especially near the rear of the vehicle where it appears to be just a jample of various shapes that have little meaning or significance. A fighter craft like this needs shapes to flow nicely and terminate in functional as well as aesthetically appealing ways. The front area near the cockpit does have something compelling going on that unfortunately doesn't seem to be carried in other parts of the design as a motif. The details and paneling make the designs feel schizophrenic and random, as opposed to balanced, functional, and harmonic. You need to create a sense of implied functionality to ground your vehicles.

    Also I find it to be odd that things like wires and cables would be hanging out like that. On some vehicles stuff like that works, like construction vehicles, some mechs, etc. but on a fast fighter vehicle I find them odd and misplaced. I can imagine them flapping around as this craft flies, and in outer space with no atmosphere they would just float around.

    spacecraft_crit.jpg

    It seems like you put many hours into this model however the panels looks rather sloppy and could use more work. There are many places where the panels do not line up properly, pinch, crease in awkward shapes, and just have a general haphazard quality about them. They need to look functional, as they are tied to the underlying structure of this vehicle. Look at helicopters and aircraft for reference. I circled some areas above where the panels either are not modeled well, or they create strange/unappealing shapes.
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    Thanks for taking the time to critique, Paul, it really helps. Design is not my strong suit which is why I was going off of a concept. I sensed some of the problems you mentioned, but I actually tried to take it the opposite direction, and go for a slow, clunky, out-of-date disrepaired hunk of junk that is pieced together with wires falling out if it. It certainly wouldn't be traveling fast or in space, given it's weight and clunkiness. I was hoping to really bring this out in the texturing and sculpting, since, as you mentioned, it's a little late to make huge changes like that. I'll redo the modeling forms in the areas you pointed out.

    Computron - perhaps, but there has to be some kind of pixel soup to fill in those areas, and it barely takes any time to throw those extra mechanical parts in. I'm going to work at 4k, and really try to optimize texturing and get it down to 2k. I'll try to post some more wireframes of what you asked for later.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Paul I see what your saying regarding the panels, they need to meld together a little better and probably have some bigger, smoother border edges, but I like the loose feel of the wires and mechanical fill. Maybe the panels will look much better the way they are once Raz dents them up in zBrush, since they are supposed to a little scrappy, right?

    The first thing that came to mind when I saw the ship is District 9, I found some concept art:

    districtninefront.jpg

    not quite the same thing, but it's got the loose mechanical stuff and the panels really sell the scrappyness of it.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Raz I want to see some close-ups of the Mechanical fill isolated, no wireframe and smooth and vice versa, please. :)
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    Ok, speeding through to wrap this up for graduation in a week, it's about as done as it's going to get. Doing a low poly and unwrap for this is going to be an absolutely nightmare.

    final_01.jpg
    final_02.jpg
    final_03.jpg
    final_04.jpg
    final_05.jpg
    final_06.jpg
  • Desertfalcon
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    Desertfalcon polycounter lvl 13
    Absolutely amazing work!
  • motenai
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    motenai polycounter lvl 18
    Very very impressive...the only critic is that i'd lower the damages on the wings...except that everything is WOW!
  • Shiniku
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    Shiniku polycounter lvl 9
    Frikken sweet, Dave!

    Question.. hard surface modeling generally leave you with a lot of uneven faces thanks to all the support edge loops, how do you go about preparing such a model for Zbrush without the sculpt getting all distorted looking?
  • jayoplus
    Very impressive hard surface work.
  • Tobbo
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    Tobbo polycounter lvl 11
    I'm simply blown away! Those dents and scrapes really bring this piece to life. Perhaps add some chipped off paint as well?
  • JamesWarren
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    JamesWarren polycounter lvl 5
    Those dents add a great deal of character, it's looking really good! I agree with motenai that the dents on the wings are a bit much, especially on the ends of them. I think it doesn't look right because the level of damage is inconsistent with the rest of the ship. It sort of makes the wings seem weak in comparison.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    That is a badass high poly model. Looking forward to seeing the bake + texturing. :)
  • foreverendering
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    foreverendering polycounter lvl 12
    Great execution of an awesome design :) Love the concept and others you posted, gonna save all this stuff to my ref folder right now.
  • AlecMoody
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    AlecMoody ngon master
    I like the pre-zbrush pass version better. I think it would help if you didn't apply the dings so globally and instead focused on one or two areas where the ship took damage.
  • JoshC
    I like all the excessive damage. It gives the model a look of it's been there and done that.

    Great work, looking forward to more.
  • Razgriz
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    Razgriz keyframe
    Thanks everyone for the compliments and critiques, they've been very helpful. I'm taking as much into consideration as I can as I move into the low-poly/texturing.
    Shiniku wrote: »
    Question.. hard surface modeling generally leave you with a lot of uneven faces thanks to all the support edge loops, how do you go about preparing such a model for Zbrush without the sculpt getting all distorted looking?

    That was a bit of a problem. I dropped in as many loops into flat surfaces as I could before exporting anything, to even out the quads, but there was definitely a limit to how much I could do that. I tried a couple things in Zbrush, from using relax, and reprojecting back onto a topologically evened-out model, but that was slow, and time consuming, so I gave that up. The type of sculping I was doing didn't require finesse, though, I was basically beating the crap out of everything, so it ended up not being a big obstacle. A couple times I actually got weird deformations and it kinda worked, so, I was happy to find that out. All of the form and curvature to the model was done in max, so Zbrush was just used for destruction of things, not a lot of finely tuned "sculpting".


    AlecMoody wrote: »
    I like the pre-zbrush pass version better. I think it would help if you didn't apply the dings so globally and instead focused on one or two areas where the ship took damage.

    I definitely see what you're saying, and appreciate the critique, but I think it will be less of an issue once I get into texturing. I have some specific ideas for how I'm going to chip off paint and rust the metal, that I think there will be enough damage to the ship overall that gives it some unity. I really want to sell this thing being a hunk of junk - well worn, past it's battle prime, falling apart, and I really wanted to "overdo" the dents to emphasize that.
  • helldiver
    Extremely awesome work!

    Regarding the kitbashing idea; I've been doing the same, except for character models.

    Basically I use an old model to create a new one by essentially making a "shell" around it. The older model will usually be a model I hacked away at for weeks (posting it on here to get critiques).

    Saves tons of time since the older model will have the right edge flow or topology solutions in it. The new model then becomes the older model on my next project.

    Again, excellent work!
  • Envart
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    Envart polycounter lvl 6
    Amazing job man, ridiculously awesome. Congrats, can't wait to see it finished!
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