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Is anyone using Ornatrix to make hair?

polycounter lvl 5
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deohboeh polycounter lvl 5
Should I use Ornatrix or other such software for hair? What are you using to make realistic hair? Are you using GMH2? What is your process for next-gen hair?

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  • Makkon
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    Makkon polycounter
    I hear there's a great pipeline for making good hair with Xgen, that now ships with Maya2015, but I have yet to see any documentation for it specifically pertaining to game hair.

    I'll add my question to yours, since I want to know also.
  • elGuapo
    Not specifically for games, but here is an interesting demo on using XGen for doing long hair:


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBzQGgMG3dg"]Maya Monday - XGen tube groom for long hair - YouTube[/ame]
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    The only decently made hair in games that I've seen is simply brute-force modelling with non-intersecting hair cards.

    I've seen hundreds of videos, and nothing that yielded great results.


    From what I've seen, there is currently nothing that beats brute force.
  • Gav
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    Gav quad damage
    I still think brute force is best, unfortunately.

    I use Ornatrix from time to time, and it does give decent results - sometimes. Though, like a lot of plugins and apps, it seems to just fall short of being flawlessly dependable. you'll get interescting cards, probably higher meshes than if you just did it by hand and, I think, still need to wrestle with a shit tone of UV islands.

    GMH, I haven't tried, but isn't it for super high rez hair - like a way better fiber mesh? From what I saw, it was like the opposite of Ornatrix...
  • Baj Singh
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    Baj Singh polycounter lvl 9
    Brute force with pre-unwrapped planes. Its still the best way to keep that organic look (imo).
  • weee
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    weee polycounter lvl 3
    speaking of hair in game, AMD's tressFx in latest Tomb Raider is quite good, at least it worked on me, but since its not widely used, I can't tell whether it can stand of time.
  • deohboeh
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    deohboeh polycounter lvl 5
    Thanks for the replies guys.. I guess it's back to extrude, move, rotate, scale, extrude, move, rotate, scale, extrude, move, rotate, scale, and repeat.

    @weee I feel tressFX is the next thing but it will still take sometime to be widely implemented. I saw the demo and it looks really cool but still a bit niche as most characters don't have too long hair. That said who knows what's going to happen next.
  • Baj Singh
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    Baj Singh polycounter lvl 9
    If you take your hair planes into zbrush, with your alpha applied as a texture (with anti-aliasing and transparency on), you can manipulate them in there. I find that much faster than in Max/Maya.
  • deohboeh
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    deohboeh polycounter lvl 5
    Baj Singh wrote: »
    If you take your hair planes into zbrush, with your alpha applied as a texture (with anti-aliasing and transparency on), you can manipulate them in there. I find that much faster than in Max/Maya.

    I haven't done this.. Gonna try this tomorrow. Thanks!
    I was using curves for long hair in ZB but sometimes the curves are really hard to manipulate.. :\
    That said it's better than EMRS(Extrude, Move, Rotate, Scale) method...
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 9
    I'm not saying the guys chiming in here are wrong about the brute force method, but I recently had a pretty good result from
    Guedin's approach:
    http://youtu.be/a-TsteJQGg8
    good way to get a nice base going. if you need to worry about non-intersection that would be an issue. but some engines have alpha-to-texture transparency that is sorting independent.
    eh
  • deohboeh
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    deohboeh polycounter lvl 5
    I'm not saying the guys chiming in here are wrong about the brute force method, but I recently had a pretty good result from
    Guedin's approach:
    http://youtu.be/a-TsteJQGg8
    good way to get a nice base going. if you need to worry about non-intersection that would be an issue. but some engines have alpha-to-texture transparency that is sorting independent.
    eh

    Thanks Dylan! Very helpful! I think I will use this for the beard. :D
  • Gav
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    Gav quad damage
    Dylan, that approach looks really similar to what Ornatrix does - is there much of a difference?
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    I've read about pixel based sorting, but I've never seen it.


    I (h) Guedun, but that method will only work with black hair, where the intersections are not obvious.

    It would look horrible with white ir blonde hair.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Dont mind the crappy shaders and render, but brute force is the only way to get something like this:
    Cornelius.jpg

    .
  • Eric Chadwick
    JacqueChoi wrote: »
    I've read about pixel based sorting, but I've never seen it.

    Marmoset has alpha-to-coverage
    http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/blending

    Solves the sorting problems, but doesn't fix the hard edges you get from intersecting planes. Still have to adjust those, like your white hair example. Nice job btw!

    edit... can you show a wireframe?
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Marmoset has alpha-to-coverage
    http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/blending

    Solves the sorting problems, but doesn't fix the hard edges you get from intersecting planes. Still have to adjust those, like your white hair example. Nice job btw!

    edit... can you show a wireframe?

    Ya Totally dude!

    I think alpha to coverage is simply anything that's over 50% opaque is rendered as alpha test, and everything under is screen-space stippled to 4 shades of transparency (with super or multi-sampling) that don't have any reliance on sorting,

    The 50%+ Opague parts will still have a ton of clipping issues.

    It's basically something like this, but blurred down a bit:
    screendoor.jpg


    As for wires, I really do have to organize, and do an art dump for thief... to show the fun shizzle we managed to do...

    So busy though.


    T_T
  • deohboeh
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    deohboeh polycounter lvl 5
    JacqueChoi wrote: »
    Dont mind the crappy shaders and render, but brute force is the only way to get something like this:
    Cornelius.jpg

    .

    That looks sweet! Did you paint the texture or did you bake it out? Dat beard!images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7V3S7fZI-XFznH3BtSh861OZwC-Vb2cXsXVEHFR_gT4JfHTbi
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 9
    JacqueChoi wrote: »
    As for wires, I really do have to organize, and do an art dump for thief... to show the fun shizzle we managed to do...

    So busy though.


    T_T
    YISSSSSS please
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    Jaque that looks awesome, would love to see a breakdown :)

    Also random sculpting q, do you find with tertiary details like skin pores, etc. they need to be exaggerated so they aren't lost or faded when baking? Cheers
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    JacqueChoi wrote: »
    Ya Totally dude!

    I think alpha to coverage is simply anything that's over 50% opaque is rendered as alpha test, and everything under is screen-space stippled to 4 shades of transparency (with super or multi-sampling) that don't have any reliance on sorting,

    The 50%+ Opague parts will still have a ton of clipping issues.

    It's basically something like this, but blurred down a bit:
    screendoor.jpg


    As for wires, I really do have to organize, and do an art dump for thief... to show the fun shizzle we managed to do...

    So busy though.


    T_T

    Marmoset uses alpha to coverage for it's dithered alpha mode, there are no sorting issues.
  • devingeesr
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    devingeesr polycounter lvl 13
    @ JacqueChoi - Please make a tutorial on this it would be such a huge help!
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