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MMA Fighter WIP

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I'm doing an MMA fighter for my portfolio and I need help and feedback. I'm aiming for a realistic style like that of the upcoming GTA 5 and I'd really appreciate any tips on how to achieve this kind of style.

Concept:
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Zbrush:
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Replies

  • ZASkaggs
    An MMA fighter without a cauliflower ear? Absurd! Looks good though.
  • oskarreftel
    Thanks! You're absolutely right, I'll make sure to fix that. :)
  • mr_ace
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    mr_ace polycounter lvl 9
    his face is looing pretty good, Id stop using the default red wax matcap though if i were you, for both of our sakes! it's harder to see what you're doing while sculpting using it, and it looks nasty in renders.

    you can get a tonne of free ones here if you don't have any good ones:

    http://www.zbrush.com/zbrush/downloadcenter/library/
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    Agreed about the Red wax matcap, it makes things look dodgy XO Your forms are looking great though, nice start :D
  • oskarreftel
    Thanks for the advice, guys! I usually don't use the red wax matcap when modelling and I regret using it for those screencaps.. :P

    Here are those cauliflower ears! :)

    ear1q.jpg
  • oskarreftel
    Here's an update!

    A lot of the reason why I've decided to do this type of character is because I want to focus on getting better at modelling skinned flesh in zbrush. Any critique and tips would be really helpful!

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    [EDIT] image removed by imageshack... i'll take that as positive feedback.. :P

    Here it is with some censoring.
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    [EDIT 2] .... I'll just color his butt green next time I post..
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  • butt_sahib
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    butt_sahib polycounter lvl 11
    looks like the right time to dynamesh and retopolgise!

    Looks tasty!!
  • oskarreftel
    Thanks! I actually already retopoed the body a few days ago. Here's the wireframe along with some more overall detail on the body. I'll start retopoing the head now!

    bodyretopo.jpg
  • oskarreftel
    It's been a long day but I managed to retopo the head and project everything from my dynamesh to the new topology.

    headretopo.jpg
  • barnesy
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    barnesy polycounter lvl 9
    Nice work so far, especially the cauliflower ear :)

    Is that re topped head the one you plan to use for the in game model?

    If so I think that you will be able to reduce the amount of loops around the eyes, forehead and upper lip.

    Check out this pic, notice how the forehead,back of the head and the neck have larger/ less polygons.

    EdgeLoop1.jpg

    That's something you can sort out after your sculpt I guess.


    What you have got so far looks really nice especially the sense of weight around the mouth area. I think some nice battle scars would really sell this character and add some asymmetry to the face.

    I just noticed that the top of the nose looks a bit too big kind of like it would block part of his vision.

    Anyway, keep it up and I am excited to see how this one turns out.
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 12
    This looks nice man! The face has character. I agree that his face could do with less polys if that's what you plan to use for the final model.
  • oskarreftel
    Thanks for the feedback, guys! Keep 'em coming! :)

    The retopo was meant just for enabling increased detail while sculpting in zbrush without the trouble of polys that won't smooth nicely on a dynamesh. I'll do another retopo for the final in-game model! I'm not sure exactly what density I'm gonna have, though. I wish I could get a hold of a wireframe pic of a character in GTA 5 for reference..

    I wanna add some battle scars too, maybe even have his face beaten up as if he's come straight from a fight. I was actually worried about the bridge of the nose being too thin, though, since he should probably have broken it multiple times?
  • oskarreftel
    Didn't get a chance to work on him yesterday but today I'm at it again!

    I've tried to get some nice subtle asymmetry into his upper body and here's where I'm at right now.

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    I'm gonna work some more on his face and try to work more on some characteristic asymmetry there too.
  • mr_ace
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    mr_ace polycounter lvl 9
    this is looking really great so far, good job
  • oskarreftel
    Thanks, man! Really means a lot, especially after seeing your trucker guy! :)
  • oskarreftel
    I think I'm gonna add some more fine wrinkles and perhaps some veins running across his temple before I beat him up with some scars and stuff.

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  • oskarreftel
    Trying to get some veins in there. Imageshack doesn't like anything that may resemble full nudity so pardon the lame photoshop speedos.

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    Here's my reference. The later is of myself and yes, I've tied a shoelace around my arm.. :P

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  • AnDEATH
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    AnDEATH polycounter lvl 5
    This is turning out real good!
    The veins have a nice natural look over them.
    I'm worried about the amount of veins. It looks a little cluttered on the topside-lower parts of the arms.
    Maybe save the details to a few areas, like the biceps or hands, instead of spreading it out all over the arms. Maybe.

    But it may look super awesome together with the veins on the legs. I guess I'll just have to wait and see! :D
  • AlexKola
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    AlexKola polycounter lvl 9
    Since all there really is to this MMA guy is anatomy I'm going to point out a few subtle things. I like that you've exaggerated the arms a bit. GTA is always a little exaggerated I'm guesing because of their pulled back camera angle. but I think the length that the shoulder and bicep are giving to the arm is a little much compared to the forearms. Da Vinci really breaks it down here.

    vitruvian-man-leonardo-da-vinci.jpg

    I swear I'm not trying to look pretentious bringing up a da vinci drawing as if I'm super leet or anthing like, I struggle with facial structure all the time.

    Back to GTA's exaggerated look though, I think the hands a and particularly the fingers could be beefier, he kind of has skinny fingers the knuckles are really readable which is kind of gaunt looking. I just typed in strong hands in google and found this. Strong hands and forearms look more naturally powerful than just huge biceps. Same with the feet since MMA guys always have them exposed. Keep it tasteful though like larger end of realism IMO. I'm sure you will that looks like where your headed to me. I can't stand the over exaggerated stuff like Fable.

    strong-hand.jpg

    The facial sculpt looks good, like a mix between frank mir and Nogera or something. Maybe could be a little meaner, or on the other hand but more difficult would be like like cold and stoic. Street fighter IV does that well. In game I guess it's up to the animator to make face shapes and expressions and stuff but if I were you I would just sculpt that in.

    Also some guys, like NOG, have the odd scar. Might be cool to add one or something but I wouldn't go adding them willy nilly or anything.

    Yeah that's what I think if you agree Great, if not that's cool too. Great work. Best of luck, I'll be watching. :)
  • oskarreftel
    Wow! Thanks for the excellent feedback! I think you make a lot of good points and I'll definitely take it into account.

    About the facial expression, since I'm gonna take this character all the way to a textured in-game model, I'm still not sure about how much of the expression I should put into the high poly or if I should leave most of it to the low poly? Maybe I should model him with a neutral expression? Any further insight would be much appreciated.

    I'll add some scars and stuff to his face soon. Until then, here's a small update with veins.

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    Again, thanks a lot for the feedback!
  • oskarreftel
    I tried making his fingers and palm thicker and more big boned. Also tried adjusting the length of his upper and lower arms but I'm not sure if I changed it enough or too much?

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  • oskarreftel
    I felt the last post didn't really give any good ground for feedback about the length of the upper arms in comparison to the lower arms, so here's a better one.. :P

    49451000.jpg

    I'm really diggin all the feedback I've gotten so far! You guys are great! :)
  • AlanSMitchell
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    AlanSMitchell polycounter lvl 14
    I'm no character artist but the anatomy looks spot on to me.
  • Curly Brace
  • AlexKola
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    AlexKola polycounter lvl 9
    I like the subtle tweaks. The Detailing on the face Is looking good Particularly the work you've done under the eyes. :D
  • Ikuru
    Looks good dude, keep it up! :)
  • oskarreftel
    Haven't worked on this guy for a couple of days but today I've just started adding some bruising. I don't want his face to be completely messed up like in many of those in my reference, so I'm thinking of limiting myself to a black eye and some scars. As always, feedback is much appreciated and needed! :)

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  • oskarreftel
    Am I headed the right way? :P

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  • oskarreftel
    Started doing the trunks.

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  • Callesw
    Looks nice! I wanna see some skin textures!:)
  • oskarreftel
    Thanks! Yeah, I know! I'm really looking forward to the texturing, as that's my weakest skill, imo. :P

    Still quite a way to go yet before I'm there, though..

    [EDIT] I'm a little worried about how the direction of the trunks' folds will impact their look when the final mesh is deforming for posing and stuff. Should I make the ones from his crotch aim more for his waist, as that's probably how I'll make edge flow go in the low poly, or should I keep them going in the more relaxed direction they are now? If anybody has insight in the matter I'd greatly appreciate it!
  • oskarreftel
    Well, I stayed away from this guy for about a week, but here's an update! I'm thinking about calling the highpoly modelling done and make additional normalmap details in photoshop. Next I'll start vertex painting in zbrush.

    All feedback is as usual much appreciated!

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  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    before you call the hp done, I got some things to consider. I saw this in the what are you working on thread...

    Good job man! Since you asked for it 
    I really like the face and abs!
    Head might be a tad small.
    The collar bone area by the outer chest looks weird. Those two indents, going inward.
    The traps could use a bit more volume for something this size.
    The hips need some more love in general. You cant really see the hip bone (the area above the hip should come in some), and he has practically no lats (the wings coming from the back under the arms.) Again, someone this size would def. have big lats.
    See the hips and lats here:
    Arnold_Schwarzenegger_575.jpg

    The space where the bicep and the forarm connect should be indented more. This will make the bicep slightly less long and what you want.
    Feet look too big, imagine the foot by the skull of the character.
    Folds in the front of the pants should probably be re-worked. Just don’t really look convincing the way the at pulling down, yet the pants are tight at the waist.
  • joshmtyler
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    joshmtyler polycounter lvl 5
    before you call the hp done, I got some things to consider. I saw this in the what are you working on thread...

    Good job man! Since you asked for it 
    I really like the face and abs!
    Head might be a tad small.
    The collar bone area by the outer chest looks weird. Those two indents, going inward.
    The traps could use a bit more volume for something this size.
    The hips need some more love in general. You cant really see the hip bone (the area above the hip should come in some), and he has practically no lats (the wings coming from the back under the arms.) Again, someone this size would def. have big lats.
    See the hips and lats here:
    Arnold_Schwarzenegger_575.jpg

    The space where the bicep and the forarm connect should be indented more. This will make the bicep slightly less long and what you want.
    Feet look too big, imagine the foot by the skull of the character.
    Folds in the front of the pants should probably be re-worked. Just don’t really look convincing the way the at pulling down, yet the pants are tight at the waist.

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think using that picture of Arnold is a problem. There are drastic differences between bodybuilder bodies and actual fighting bodies.
    Stick with fighter references, and not bodies for show.
    4320
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    joshmtyler: Totally agree with you! Actually when I first saw this guy, that's the first thing I thought, he looks more like a bodybuilder than a fighter. Its so common that people do that. I actually compete in bodybuilding myself, so when I see these sculpts of mens physiques that look better than real competitive bodybuilders (yet they are not meant to be bodybuilders at all) it always leaves me thinking this piece must be stylized or just not based on reality.
    Anyway, I figured since he already looks like a bodybuilder, just go with it, and finish him up that way. In order to give him a realistic fighters body literally every muscle needs to be pulled back, and his bodyfat should probably be increased considerably.
  • oskarreftel
    Thanks for the awesome feedback, guys! I get what you're both saying and now I'm not really sure if I should turn him into more of a body builder or a real MMA fighter.
    I have a problem with not making my 3D stuff look stylized and I really wanna do my best at making this one be as realistic as I can without turning it into an endless project. The truth is I've used various references from both fighters and bodybuilders and I realize now that I should've probably just stuck to only fighters. One thing I know I can fix straight away is his hips and lats as both your bodybuilder and MMA reference has more weight and volume in those areas than my character. Indents between pecs, collar bones and shoulders too.
    If I decide to increase his body fat as well, I'm guessing his abs could use some more, while the rest of his body is doing quite alright?
    I'm not really sure as to how much definition would be best to use, since in real life, his muscles would show more as he tenses them while doing kicks, punches and receiving blows. At the same time, he has to be able to look somewhat relaxed..
    Ben Mathis (poopinmymouth) gave me a tip when I asked a similar question about the folds on his shorts, that I could make different normalmaps for the final lowpoly and blend them depending on how his body is posed. I might be able to make time for that on the shorts but doing it for the body seems like so much more work?

    Sorry for that wall of text... :P
    I think I'm gonna try and find a reference of a fighter whose body isn't too far off where I am now, in order to make it more realistic but not adding too much work. :)

    Again, thanks for the awesome feedback, I know it's gonna make my work better!
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    You have a great attitude and I'm sure it will shine thru your work dude. I checked out your sketch thread and you def. have some really strong artistic talent.

    About the fat, I would indeed add more to the stomach, but just carefully study your references as much as you can. For example, in the above images you have the fighter body vs. the bodybuilder. When your fat gets really low like a bodybuilder the muscles separate and create these sharp lines. I can see how sharp the underside of your sculpts pecs are for example. Now look at the bodybuilder reference again. He also has very sharp definition, while the fighter although still very lean, doesn't have that. It sorta smoothes out into the abs on the underside. Pay careful attention to details like that and you will go far. its not to say that a fighter couldn't be ultra lean, but certainly its not the norm. and paying close attention to subtle details like this will really show in the end. Good luck!
  • ZASkaggs
    Although most fighters do look more like Liddell, it's not at all unusual for fighters to have a very low amount of body fat in the lead-up to a fight, since most cut a substantial amount of weight. So it doesn't look especially unnatural if you ask me. Take this picture of Kyle Kingsbury for example. Of course this is at the weigh-ins, so he would have looked a bit more filled out by the time he was fighting. ufn22_weighin_014.jpg
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    Yea, that dude is super lean, but a stick in comparison to the current sculpt. He would have to reduce the muscle volume so much to be like that dude in the picture. Point being, when a fighter is that lean, they don't have that much size in terms of muscle mass. Since his dude is already big, I was suggesting that he add some fat and reduce some size to meet half way. There are even a few fighters that could practically be bodybuilders like Kevin Randelman, that's not the point. I think its better to go for the average guy, and add subtle details. The work will look a lot more professional that way imo.
  • oskarreftel
    I made some slight changes last week following your advice. For reference I've used mostly Rand Couture but I decided to keep a lot of the definition on the abs.

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    Here's my reference for the changes:

    ref1t.jpg

    I've got to make time to move onto lowpoly soon! :)

    Thanks a lot for all the feedback I've gotten so far!
  • oskarreftel
    Since I last posted, I've been working on the lowpoly model and today I started to test my shoulder topology.

    deformation.jpg

    I'm using the model of Batman from Arkham City as a major reference for the topology.

    The guy is still missing his fingers and trunks. I'll be finishing them up on tuesday next week and move on to doing UV's.

    I also tried my hand at deforming his face as well as doing a test bake of the normals.

    deformationface.jpg

    All feedback is much needed and appreciated! You guys are really great for helping me out! And btw, thanks for the kind words about my sketchbook, BradMyers82! I checked out your website and all your stuff looks amazing! I especially like the german shepherd, zombie pug and Morgan Freeman!
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    Low poly looks awesome dude! Thanks for the kind words. :)
  • Kerstin
    Fantastic deformation on the shoulders and face! :D
  • oskarreftel
    faaaaaak, i got lost in painting skin weights today and forgot to finish up a lowpoly for the trunks! I'll have to squeeze in some time tomorrow.

    Once again, the model of Batman from Arkham City has been a huge reference for the topology of the hands. I'm going to use them for an upcoming student game project so that's why I've modeled them completely even though they will be covered by gloves. I will delete faces and snap vertecies to the gloves to get rid of excess geometry but for today this was just too much fun to be ignored..

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  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 12
    Where are you seeing the batman topology? Got a link?
  • oskarreftel
    @Fomori, I extracted the Batman model from Arkham City using this tool: http://www.gildor.org/en/projects/umodel.

    Let me point out that I only used the model as reference, though, trying to figure out why some loops go where they go and when it's OK to use tris! :)
  • oskarreftel
    Been a while since I posted an update now. Been working on finishing up a student RTS project. I did most of my normal bakes yesterday. Nervous about the skin texturing..! :S

    These screen caps vary between regular mayas High quality and Viewport 2.0 viewports. For some reason the normals end up a bit cray in 2.0, especially on the triangulated mesh that I used for baking in xNormal. Anybody have any insight in this matter?

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  • Moltazia
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    Moltazia polycounter lvl 5
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 12
    Nice poses! Great to see you testing the deformation out.
  • oskarreftel
    Thanks, Moltazia and Fomori!

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