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Female Face Problem

Hey, I'm currently sculpting a female character and at the moment I'm stuck at the face. I don't know what it is, but something feels weird about the face.
Maybe some of you guys could take a look at it:

VSB2fMn.jpg

Replies

  • Count Vertsalot
    I suggest finding a skull and sticking it in there to see what doesn't add up. There's a female skeleton in LightBox in the tool subfolder by Ryan Kingslien.

    Right now I can tell your head isn't big enough to fit that face.
  • Ne0nfire
    A bigger head you say.. mhn, but the head seems already huge in my eyes..
  • Count Vertsalot
    d2b95b28ef.jpg

    Either shrink the face or expand the skull. Either way your eyes are in the wrong spot.
  • SuperFranky
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    SuperFranky polycounter lvl 10
    Make sure you have the right proportions established first. use a lot of photo reference from all angles. Don't fret if it doesn't look like anything, just sculpt what you see and build your mental ability to recognise shapes in the faces. Also study anatomy, muscles of the face and bones. Sculpt a lot of everything. Do ecorche paintings.
  • Colddeez
    It may also be the lack of ears throwing you off.
  • Ne0nfire
    Thanks guys, I'm using tons of photo reference the whole time but I didn't manage to notice the thing which makes it look so weird. But I can't really figure out how much the eyes have to be in the eye orbits and how deep the orbit is..
  • DireWolf
    Zbrush can lower opacity of the whole app with the little slider near the top right of the app. You could use that to overlay the head on top of your reference to get things into the right place. Or use Zbrush spotlight.
  • Count Vertsalot
    Ne0nfire wrote: »
    Thanks guys, I'm using tons of photo reference the whole time but I didn't manage to notice the thing which makes it look so weird. But I can't really figure out how much the eyes have to be in the eye orbits and how deep the orbit is..

    Don't use photo reference yet. All photo reference is good for is matching a particular characters proportions. You need a fundamental understanding of anatomy first or you'll just keep getting stuck.

    If you're unsure if this is a field you want to stay in, this tutorial is low cost enough to get your feet wet: https://gumroad.com/grassetti/

    If you're sure about being a character artist then this is the best resource out there so far: https://www.anatomy4sculptors.com/

    This is just my opinion, but I've been personally studying human anatomy for 4 years now.
  • SuperFranky
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    SuperFranky polycounter lvl 10
    Don't use photo reference yet. All photo reference is good for is matching a particular characters proportions. You need a fundamental understanding of anatomy first or you'll just keep getting stuck.

    Photo reference is a must for learning to understand the forms of the face and body. Analyzing forms, drawing ecorches and just plain staring at people's faces whenever you can. Building a mental library of shapes, connections and relationships. Knowledge of muscle placement will only get you so far.
  • Count Vertsalot
    Anatomy knowledge isn't limited to muscles. You just listed all the things that I would put in that category. The reason he should skip photo reference for sculpting/modeling something is because of lens distortions in photos. If he's using a photo to measure/eyeball the proportions of that head he's sculpting, that photo could be distorted just enough to ruin his day. It's better to just have a general knowledge of proportions to rely on, which comes from anatomy studies.
  • Ne0nfire
    I don't only use photo reference of faces, I also have pictures form female skulls which I have always open on my second monitor as reference guide. I already bought a copy of anatomy4sculptors, the book is awesome but even thought all I wanted to know is:
    What makes THIS face so odd looking, you guys told me now all about "using reference" and such, which is great, but I really need a concrete example why this face is looking out of proportion.

    I've already loaded a female skull into zBrush and tried to align it with my sculpt to see what's wrong, but nothing seems to be heavily out of position.

    UtWpAEF.jpg
  • SuperFranky
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    SuperFranky polycounter lvl 10
    Anatomy knowledge isn't limited to muscles. You just listed all the things that I would put in that category. The reason he should skip photo reference for sculpting/modeling something is because of lens distortions in photos. If he's using a photo to measure/eyeball the proportions of that head he's sculpting, that photo could be distorted just enough to ruin his day. It's better to just have a general knowledge of proportions to rely on, which comes from anatomy studies.

    I didn't mean he should use photo references as a modeling crutch, I meant that he should use photo references as a study resource for understanding forms.
    Ne0nfire wrote: »
    I really need a concrete example why this face is looking out of proportion.

    Your proportions are fine, at least in the front view. What is wrong is everything else: shapes of the bones, planes of the face, shapes of the features (eyes,nose,mouth). If you want to sculpt good faces you'll have to gain a lot of knowledge in anatomy: study skulls, sculpt them; study muscles, see where they originate on the skull and where they go. You need to understand how the skull looks from all angles. Just google "human skulls" for images.

    Start with sculpting a few skulls, or a dozen. Then move onto researching anatomy. There are plenty great books and 3d anatomy resources for that.
  • Count Vertsalot
    I didn't mean he should use photo references as a modeling crutch, I meant that he should use photo references as a study resource for understanding forms.

    It sounds like we're arguing about agreeing. :D I think we're on the same page, just some miscommunication.

    Your proportions are fine, at least in the front view. What is wrong is everything else: shapes of the bones, planes of the face, shapes of the features (eyes,nose,mouth). If you want to sculpt good faces you'll have to gain a lot of knowledge in anatomy: study skulls, sculpt them; study muscles, see where they originate on the skull and where they go. You need to understand how the skull looks from all angles. Just google "human skulls" for images.

    Start with sculpting a few skulls, or a dozen. Then move onto researching anatomy. There are plenty great books and 3d anatomy resources for that.

    It's always a good idea to start with the base structure, in this case the skull. Everything sits on/hands off the skull. It's really easy to get overwhelmed with zygomatic arches, maxillas, etc. It's important to simplify at first to get things in the correct place. This is where artistic reference comes in. This is why I recommended Anatomy4Sculptors. If I were you I'd get the PDF. It's $50, but it's priceless as far as reference goes.

    Here's just an example of head information: https://www.anatomy4sculptors.com/anatomy.php?menu=194
  • SuperFranky
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    SuperFranky polycounter lvl 10
    It sounds like we're arguing about agreeing. :D I think we're on the same page, just some miscommunication.




    It's always a good idea to start with the base structure, in this case the skull. Everything sits on/hands off the skull. It's really easy to get overwhelmed with zygomatic arches, maxillas, etc. It's important to simplify at first to get things in the correct place. This is where artistic reference comes in. This is why I recommended Anatomy4Sculptors. If I were you I'd get the PDF. It's $50, but it's priceless as far as reference goes.

    Here's just an example of head information: https://www.anatomy4sculptors.com/anatomy.php?menu=194

    Anatomy4Sculptors is pretty good, I think they also have a book you can buy.
  • Count Vertsalot
    The PDF is the same as the book, just half the price. You can use it to put reference in Zbrush if needed.
  • Ne0nfire
    Ne0nfire wrote: »
    ... I already bought a copy of anatomy4sculptors, the book is awesome ...

    As I wrote, I already bought a copy of this awesome book. I love these planar illustrations of the face/skull in the book, they really clarify how shapes are defined in the face. Thanks to you both for your help, I appreciate it.
  • Count Vertsalot
    Ne0nfire wrote: »
    THIS face so odd looking, you guys told me now all about "using reference" and such, which is great, but I really need a concrete example why this face is looking out of proportion.

    My bad, I missed this post. To answer your question, I think you went into detailing the face way too soon. Worry about placing the nose, mouth, and other details AFTER you're sure the skull is proportionate in every angle of view. You then want to just make simple lines where the landmarks should hit on that skull. You don't have to sculpt an entire detailed skull every time you make a head though. There's shortcuts like the Loomis method.

    Here's a video depicting the Loomis head method. It's for 2D drawing, but it has all the information you need to sculpt it in 3D.
    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPNYWeEf1U[/ame]
  • Ne0nfire
    This video is great, thanks! I'll try to apply all these tips which you guys gave me like researching skull, focus on major head shapes instead of on details and such. I'll post an update of the sculpt when I think I made a progression or so.
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