It may admittedly be enough that it is eye candy. I think Avatar has a similar result as a film.
You're of course completely entitled to have a bad opinion about the movie as a whole, but I believe that the craftsmanship behind the script is top notch. Sure, it's as simple and mass market as it gets, but it just works, people didn't go to see it again just because of the CGI. It's in a completely different league compared to other blockbusters like Transformers with a mess of a plot and characters...
As we've seen in this thread, you have some people who see the short length, the super linear path of the game, and the 'uninspired game design' and think "not for me". I'm in the other camp (if I had a PS4) and see "Shiny Pretty Movie that looks better than anything out there and lets me shoot stuff!"
We're both right.
Some games nail everything for everyone but really, most don't do that. The Order is not going to do that. And that's ok. I want it to sell well, I want RAD and Sony to make their money, and I want people to enjoy it.
On a side note about the reviews I read, most were in one camp or another. But what I don't get is IGN's specific review. I think the reviewer was upset he wasn't playing an open world game. He had a complaint about limited interactivity with the world and I was thinking "Come on dude, Last of Us, Uncharted, Gears of War...like all these types of games have that going on." That specific remark has bugged me all day. ALL DAY!!
PS: That super fancy editor? Similar in a lot of ways to Material Layering in UE 4, you can do just about everything they did in there in Unreal. You can find the Presentation about their tech somewhere online too.
On a side note about the reviews I read, most were in one camp or another. But what I don't get is IGN's specific review. I think the reviewer was upset he wasn't playing an open world game. He had a complaint about limited interactivity with the world and I was thinking "Come on dude, Last of Us, Uncharted, Gears of War...like all these types of games have that going on." That specific remark has bugged me all day. ALL DAY!!
Well, maybe he wouldn't have had this issue with the game if there was plenty of gameplay?
I'm going to enjoy this game for the technical marvel that it is.
A lot of you guys seem to forget that it's a clear and consistent pattern in the industry - new tech comes along in games that suck as games, but the tech is phenomenal, and then new games come along and use that tech (because now it exists) and make better games with it.
This is nothing new, i don't understand what you're all complaining about. And honestly, i think you're working in the wrong industry if you see this as a problem. You're literally complaining about progress. Progress comes at a cost.
In the previous console generation we've had two TPS games that have managed to introduce new, advanced tech, and yet they were also pretty good games: Gears of War and Uncharted.
8 years after them, The Order offers basically nothing new in the gameplay; in fact in many ways it's even less of a game, there aren't any set pieces, the enemy count is about the same if not less, some of the mechanics aren't even as good (like the cover aspect) so one could say it's actually somewhat of a step backwards. Not to mention the storytelling.
I really liked everything about the art and the setting and such before the release and I'm very sad to see what it turned out to be. In fact I have a hard time believing that there was no-one at RAD or Sony to see this and do something about it.
Gears of War (first game) was gorgeous, but it was a rail shooter that took less than 8 hours to finish.
Exactly the same "problem" with this game.
Uncharted didn't push tech in any new way... Assassin's Creed did that first (AC's big tech push was actually in gameplay), and le shoque! the first game was terrible!
Gears of War (first game) was gorgeous, but it was a rail shooter that took less than 8 hours to finish.
Nope. Gears had a very very good take on the cover mechanic based shooter, varied gameplay with vehicle sections and boss fights and the train run and the swarming night creatures stuff and such. The vast majority of that 8 hours - although I remember more - was pure gameplay and not cinematics or QTE. And almost all of it was new, there weren't dozens of similar games before.
Most of The Order is practically the same game, but only the core part, and there aren't any set pieces or different levels, it's basically LESS of a game.
Uncharted didn't push tech in any new way...
Disagree again. I believe it had larger environments than The Order for a start, and it had lots of new tech in character rendering and animation, then there was the traversal system and the puzzles and so on.
Again, when you strip it of the visuals, it's more of a game compared to TO.
Assassin's Creed did that first (AC's big tech push was actually in gameplay), and le shoque! the first game was terrible!
Disagree again... The entire open world system in AC1 was a huge innovation (one which almost all current Ubisoft games are still built upon) but where it was lacking was the content they've put into that world. That's why it was a disappointment for many and not because the tech was bad. Although I'm still a huge fan of the setting and the mood.
AC2 did not reinvent the large systems, it "just" gave the player a lot more to do with more complex missions and a LOT of extra activities (like managing the villa).
It's cover system changed the whole shooter genre; everything has a cover system now but it was fairly unique when it came out.
And on top of that, it has actually worked flawlessly, the character is under your complete control all the time - whereas in The Order it's not nearly as good, unfortunately.
Another good example is the first Mass Effect and it's sequel - the shooting and cover mechanics and AI in 1 are atrocious, but the rest of the game was good enough so people were willing to live with it. Then in ME2 they got the entire fighting just right - but they've compromised on the rest of the RPG systems a bit so some people got upset. Then in ME3 the gameplay got near perfect - but then a lot of people got upset with the story
Still, it says a lot that an RPG-shooter hybrid has better TPS gameplay than The Order, at least IMHO...
Although with Gears, I have to add that the Wretches have always annoyed me, because of the way the third person camera was actually a hindrance in dealing with them rushing you.
So it's especially frustrating to see that the Lycan in The Order are basically the same...
And on top of that, it has actually worked flawlessly, the character is under your complete control all the time - whereas in The Order it's not nearly as good, unfortunately.
Just curious, have you actually played a release build of The Order? Most of the reviews I read said the cover system worked well- Just that it was derivative.
For the record, I have only played cover shooters for a combined 30 minutes of my life and they have never pulled me in.
Im watching someone play the game on twitch right now and the environments look amazing, I hope the artist come out and show their work and maybe breakdowns and all that good stuff.
Considering that the internet reacted quite hard to the game length and it actually being quite short, was it really intended or is it the result of cut content due to development deadlines?
Gameplay itself seems to have suffered from the same issue, needing more time for refinement.
Most games have review embargos, and for a good reason. Its so that some publications wont rush through games/rush out articles just to be first.
If it's on embargo until day before release then that sends alarm bells ringing for me. Screams of damage control so they can get as many orders shipped as possible. How many pre orderers will cancel their order of the order in order to avoid the orders okayish reviews......order
I dunno, I think artists have raised their game as they have had to, design has stayed relatively the same and maybe they need to level up too. Everything these days can be compared to something else that did it better. Maybe I'm just getting old and bitter and losing interest quicker due to iphone culture haha.
Anyway looking forward to experiencing it tonight gonna be guuuuuud
If it's on embargo until day before release then that sends alarm bells ringing for me. Screams of damage control so they can get as many orders shipped as possible.
to be fair though, almost every game has an embargo until release nowadays
Considering that the internet reacted quite hard to the game length and it actually being quite short, was it really intended or is it the result of cut content due to development deadlines?
Gameplay itself seems to have suffered from the same issue, needing more time for refinement.
Based on reviews, there's quite a bit of padding actually. So I suppose devs actually tried to stretch the game as much as they can by adding QTEs everywhere and reusing fighting scenarios and setpieces.
My girlfriend got an amazon package today, but she's not here, and i know my copy of the order is in there... she ordered it for me two christmases ago and it's finally here but i can't open it until she gives it to me.
Seriously though, the game looks gorgeous. Arguably the best looking game I've ever seen.
I'm hoping there's no layoffs at RAD. They're an immensely talented developer that have delivered exceptional games in the past.
I'm starting to think what happened to the Order is a symptom of what's happening to all major console developers. There's simply too much money involved that all the stakeholders want more 'say' to avert risk. Homogenization of gameplay is a result of marketing/Finance/Publishers/Executives all having too much say in the development process.
Then 'Feminist Frequency' starts to gain considerable notoriety, and their game doesn't have a strong LEAD female. So BAM! Back to the story writing, to throw in a strong female counterpoint to the protagonist. They have to revise quite a bit of a story, without being too destructive to the existing design/created assets/scheduling/recorded dialogue/motioncaptured scenes.
Don't be that guy :S
It's more likely that the production was a bit too expensive and would've required quite a bit more time, so original ideas are scrapped, things are reworked, a bunch of gameplay never actually gets the time to be iterated on and boom we have a mediocre product with fantastic art.
It's not about some supreme lack of talent that "must not be mentioned here", it's more likely that this is yet another story of things not coming together right, game development is difficult.
I'm hoping there's no layoffs at RAD. They're an immensely talented developer that have delivered exceptional games in the past.
Do remember that this is the first actual original game from ready at dawn, all of their prior games have been built upon existing game design already.
I haven't got the game, but I read the reviews and all the comments about it, and the common thread throughout them all was that the art was awesome but the game itself was a disappointment. So I guess if you, like us, love art, you might just get the game because of that, but otherwise it would be a 'waste' of money to buy it at full price.
Interesting article concerning the game and the changing nature of games today.
The Order: 1886 is a classic “yes, and?” It’s a cover shooter! Yes, and? It has a conspiracy story! Yes, and? It has very impressive graphics technology! Yes, and? Each time, it failed to answer the question with something interesting enough to keep us from asking it again. It got panned not because it was bad, necessarily, but because it wasn’t good. And whether it’s one hour long or forty, I’m not going to spend my time with it unless it can convince me it’s worth it.
Too be honest, I want the game, but I'll get it later for a lower price (things are expensive here and Bloodborne is coming)
To me it seems to be in the vein of Uncharted 1 and Gears of War 1, where the first game is decent but not mindblowing, but it sets a standard that a potential sequel can build a LOT on. Despite the harsh critique I do hope the game sells well so that RAD can move on to a sequel that contains everything they might have had to cut from this one.
I bought the game to spport the dev, but... Man...
Its like a classic page 3 model. Its lovely to look at, gorgeous even, but man theres just NOTHING there...? Its like, I find myself saying "yeah that's nice!" but then... I feel like I'm playing a game from 20 years ago at the same time? Its not even like theres any improvements either? The character walks like a tank, the camera is awful, and the weapons all lack any form of punch... Even the wife said the guns all sound weak. THE WIFE.
But it IS one hell of a looker... I just wish there was some game there as well. Just to be clear, I've only got to around chapter 5, but I already feel like its just not going to get any better
I bought the game to spport the dev, but... Man...
Its like a classic page 3 model. Its lovely to look at, gorgeous even, but man theres just NOTHING there...? Its like, I find myself saying "yeah that's nice!" but then... I feel like I'm playing a game from 20 years ago at the same time? Its not even like theres any improvements either? The character walks like a tank, the camera is awful, and the weapons all lack any form of punch... Even the wife said the guns all sound weak. THE WIFE.
Must be playing a different game to me.... so far the plot, animations and 'feeling' of the guns has been really nice. Different strokes I guess.
I don't even know what's happening half the time with the plot, to be fair... I know there's these werewolf style things, but as to how long they have been there or why I'm fighting them, or even who I am, I don't know... One second I was in a prison escaping, the next I'm not and those people are helping me, which I assume means the intro was something that happens later in the game, but at no point is this told to you. Nothing is ever explained to you, its always "This is what we are doing... What do you mean you don't know why?".
But I still play SNES games simply because of their gameplay. Gameplay will always trump graphics for me. But this gen so far seems very much like the gen of "well, who cares about the gameplay, lets just polish it up". This game could have been HUGE, but sadly it just feels average. And this is from somebody that actually enjoyed Ryse a lot
I don't even know what's happening half the time with the plot, to be fair... I know there's these werewolf style things, but as to how long they have been there or why I'm fighting them, or even who I am, I don't know...
hahaha i agree.
This was my gripe the whole time i worked on this game. (about 3yrs..give or take..)
I feel that it happened because the person in charge of the story, didn't want to hear the critique from most of the employees in the studio. It's sad really, and it's the result of keeping something close to your chest. Isolated from other opinions.
I wish people would stop saying that. That's EVERYONES opinion. It's not unique.
Gameplay doesn't sell in high numbers on the back of a box. Pretty screenshots and 3- second long adverts with "the best looking video game ever" do. You know this.
I don't know anyone who buys videogames anymore based on whats on the box.
Either they're preordering from a franchise that they're familiar with and know what to expect in terms of gameplay, or they'll watch gameplay (more than 3 seconds worth...) on youtube or steam before deciding.
Replies
You're of course completely entitled to have a bad opinion about the movie as a whole, but I believe that the craftsmanship behind the script is top notch. Sure, it's as simple and mass market as it gets, but it just works, people didn't go to see it again just because of the CGI. It's in a completely different league compared to other blockbusters like Transformers with a mess of a plot and characters...
As we've seen in this thread, you have some people who see the short length, the super linear path of the game, and the 'uninspired game design' and think "not for me". I'm in the other camp (if I had a PS4) and see "Shiny Pretty Movie that looks better than anything out there and lets me shoot stuff!"
We're both right.
Some games nail everything for everyone but really, most don't do that. The Order is not going to do that. And that's ok. I want it to sell well, I want RAD and Sony to make their money, and I want people to enjoy it.
On a side note about the reviews I read, most were in one camp or another. But what I don't get is IGN's specific review. I think the reviewer was upset he wasn't playing an open world game. He had a complaint about limited interactivity with the world and I was thinking "Come on dude, Last of Us, Uncharted, Gears of War...like all these types of games have that going on." That specific remark has bugged me all day. ALL DAY!!
PS: That super fancy editor? Similar in a lot of ways to Material Layering in UE 4, you can do just about everything they did in there in Unreal. You can find the Presentation about their tech somewhere online too.
Well, maybe he wouldn't have had this issue with the game if there was plenty of gameplay?
A lot of you guys seem to forget that it's a clear and consistent pattern in the industry - new tech comes along in games that suck as games, but the tech is phenomenal, and then new games come along and use that tech (because now it exists) and make better games with it.
This is nothing new, i don't understand what you're all complaining about. And honestly, i think you're working in the wrong industry if you see this as a problem. You're literally complaining about progress. Progress comes at a cost.
In the previous console generation we've had two TPS games that have managed to introduce new, advanced tech, and yet they were also pretty good games: Gears of War and Uncharted.
8 years after them, The Order offers basically nothing new in the gameplay; in fact in many ways it's even less of a game, there aren't any set pieces, the enemy count is about the same if not less, some of the mechanics aren't even as good (like the cover aspect) so one could say it's actually somewhat of a step backwards. Not to mention the storytelling.
I really liked everything about the art and the setting and such before the release and I'm very sad to see what it turned out to be. In fact I have a hard time believing that there was no-one at RAD or Sony to see this and do something about it.
Exactly the same "problem" with this game.
Uncharted didn't push tech in any new way... Assassin's Creed did that first (AC's big tech push was actually in gameplay), and le shoque! the first game was terrible!
Do anyone actually still care about metacritic? Complete and utter garbage.
Anyway, game looks great. Not something I'd buy at full price, though (not enough content for SP only for my taste).
Nope. Gears had a very very good take on the cover mechanic based shooter, varied gameplay with vehicle sections and boss fights and the train run and the swarming night creatures stuff and such. The vast majority of that 8 hours - although I remember more - was pure gameplay and not cinematics or QTE. And almost all of it was new, there weren't dozens of similar games before.
Most of The Order is practically the same game, but only the core part, and there aren't any set pieces or different levels, it's basically LESS of a game.
Disagree again. I believe it had larger environments than The Order for a start, and it had lots of new tech in character rendering and animation, then there was the traversal system and the puzzles and so on.
Again, when you strip it of the visuals, it's more of a game compared to TO.
Disagree again... The entire open world system in AC1 was a huge innovation (one which almost all current Ubisoft games are still built upon) but where it was lacking was the content they've put into that world. That's why it was a disappointment for many and not because the tech was bad. Although I'm still a huge fan of the setting and the mood.
AC2 did not reinvent the large systems, it "just" gave the player a lot more to do with more complex missions and a LOT of extra activities (like managing the villa).
It's cover system changed the whole shooter genre; everything has a cover system now but it was fairly unique when it came out.
And on top of that, it has actually worked flawlessly, the character is under your complete control all the time - whereas in The Order it's not nearly as good, unfortunately.
Another good example is the first Mass Effect and it's sequel - the shooting and cover mechanics and AI in 1 are atrocious, but the rest of the game was good enough so people were willing to live with it. Then in ME2 they got the entire fighting just right - but they've compromised on the rest of the RPG systems a bit so some people got upset. Then in ME3 the gameplay got near perfect - but then a lot of people got upset with the story
Still, it says a lot that an RPG-shooter hybrid has better TPS gameplay than The Order, at least IMHO...
So it's especially frustrating to see that the Lycan in The Order are basically the same...
Just curious, have you actually played a release build of The Order? Most of the reviews I read said the cover system worked well- Just that it was derivative.
For the record, I have only played cover shooters for a combined 30 minutes of my life and they have never pulled me in.
Considering that the internet reacted quite hard to the game length and it actually being quite short, was it really intended or is it the result of cut content due to development deadlines?
Gameplay itself seems to have suffered from the same issue, needing more time for refinement.
If it's on embargo until day before release then that sends alarm bells ringing for me. Screams of damage control so they can get as many orders shipped as possible. How many pre orderers will cancel their order of the order in order to avoid the orders okayish reviews......order
I dunno, I think artists have raised their game as they have had to, design has stayed relatively the same and maybe they need to level up too. Everything these days can be compared to something else that did it better. Maybe I'm just getting old and bitter and losing interest quicker due to iphone culture haha.
Anyway looking forward to experiencing it tonight
You are well out of order
to be fair though, almost every game has an embargo until release nowadays
yeah but i don't think this is any good
FML.
[ame]
Seriously though, the game looks gorgeous. Arguably the best looking game I've ever seen.
I'm hoping there's no layoffs at RAD. They're an immensely talented developer that have delivered exceptional games in the past.
I'm starting to think what happened to the Order is a symptom of what's happening to all major console developers. There's simply too much money involved that all the stakeholders want more 'say' to avert risk. Homogenization of gameplay is a result of marketing/Finance/Publishers/Executives all having too much say in the development process.
:S
OVER THE LINE!
Don't be that guy :S
It's more likely that the production was a bit too expensive and would've required quite a bit more time, so original ideas are scrapped, things are reworked, a bunch of gameplay never actually gets the time to be iterated on and boom we have a mediocre product with fantastic art.
It's not about some supreme lack of talent that "must not be mentioned here", it's more likely that this is yet another story of things not coming together right, game development is difficult.
Do remember that this is the first actual original game from ready at dawn, all of their prior games have been built upon existing game design already.
Interesting article concerning the game and the changing nature of games today.
I'm real excited to look at all the art
Applauses should be given to the artists, grins should be held agasint the game designers.
They could have at least, integrated some subtle RPG elements or something like weapon modification.
About the game length, VAnquish was also a 5-7 hours game of shooting(INTENSE SHOOTING with incredible visuals) and it received only positive critics!
Why? Because Vanquish in terms of gameplay has it's own soul, never a tps was that dynamic!
The Order didnt bring anything on that table.
Vanquish also had real challenge to it and side Trials that were very hard.
It's crazy.
Will send the word to the team, make me glad to hear that
If you're a character artist, you need to play this game.
If you're a rendering engineer, you need to play this game.
It's fucking crazy!
To me it seems to be in the vein of Uncharted 1 and Gears of War 1, where the first game is decent but not mindblowing, but it sets a standard that a potential sequel can build a LOT on. Despite the harsh critique I do hope the game sells well so that RAD can move on to a sequel that contains everything they might have had to cut from this one.
It looks absolutely gorgeous.
Its like a classic page 3 model. Its lovely to look at, gorgeous even, but man theres just NOTHING there...? Its like, I find myself saying "yeah that's nice!" but then... I feel like I'm playing a game from 20 years ago at the same time? Its not even like theres any improvements either? The character walks like a tank, the camera is awful, and the weapons all lack any form of punch... Even the wife said the guns all sound weak. THE WIFE.
But it IS one hell of a looker... I just wish there was some game there as well. Just to be clear, I've only got to around chapter 5, but I already feel like its just not going to get any better
10+ for the game
1 for the gameplay
Must be playing a different game to me.... so far the plot, animations and 'feeling' of the guns has been really nice. Different strokes I guess.
But I still play SNES games simply because of their gameplay. Gameplay will always trump graphics for me. But this gen so far seems very much like the gen of "well, who cares about the gameplay, lets just polish it up". This game could have been HUGE, but sadly it just feels average. And this is from somebody that actually enjoyed Ryse a lot
hahaha i agree.
This was my gripe the whole time i worked on this game. (about 3yrs..give or take..)
I feel that it happened because the person in charge of the story, didn't want to hear the critique from most of the employees in the studio. It's sad really, and it's the result of keeping something close to your chest. Isolated from other opinions.
Gameplay doesn't sell in high numbers on the back of a box. Pretty screenshots and 3- second long adverts with "the best looking video game ever" do. You know this.
Either they're preordering from a franchise that they're familiar with and know what to expect in terms of gameplay, or they'll watch gameplay (more than 3 seconds worth...) on youtube or steam before deciding.