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Hard Surface Modeling - Sculpt or don't sculpt

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  • Nam.Nguyen
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    Nam.Nguyen polycounter lvl 9
    I guess this subject is bring up since Pixologic reveal Zbrush 4R7 with the new "modeling tool kit"

    IMO, that's not "new technology", sculpting and Sub-D modeling are still different and can not replace each other, they simply use for different jobs

    not quite long time a go, I was wondering the same thing, Zbrush seems like it's very quick and easy to do hard surface stuff, no need to worry about topology any more, just play with clay, why so many hard surface pro still use Sub-D ?

    I decided to try it myself and see what work for me.

    The quick and easy myth :

    + Quick : not quite, it may seems quick at first stage, but with some disadvantage that ppl already listed above, it become slower in further stage of production.

    + Easy : not easy at all, in order to achieve equal result as Sub-D, it required a lot of effort and practice, and the hardest thing when do hard surface in Zbrush is to control how smooth the edges are, meanwhile in sub-d you just need to adjust couple control edges


    Epic games uses zbrush for a lot of hard surface...

    Hard surface sculpt or don't sculpt is not a new topic, and I always see the name Epic games. Sure, they sculpt hard surface but I think it's depend alot on the art style. Gear of War has a heavy mechanical style, solid and simple silhouette but a lot of surface details, it's not something like COD weapons for example.

    just because Epic games use it, doesn't make it become standard.

    what I wrote on this comment is base on my own experience, and not aply for other fields.

    Again, my point is they're different, and use for different jobs
  • Treece
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    Treece polycounter lvl 3
    Nam.Nguyen wrote: »
    I guess this subject is bring up since Pixologic reveal Zbrush 4R7 with the new "modeling tool kit"

    IMO, that's not "new technology", sculpting and Sub-D modeling are still different and can not replace each other, they simply use for different jobs

    not quite long time a go, I was wondering the same thing, Zbrush seems like it's very quick and easy to do hard surface stuff, no need to worry about topology any more, just play with clay, why so many hard surface pro still use Sub-D ?

    I decided to try it myself and see what work for me.

    The quick and easy myth :

    + Quick : not quite, it may seems quick at first stage, but with some disadvantage that ppl already listed above, it become slower in further stage of production.

    + Easy : not easy at all, in order to achieve equal result as Sub-D, it required a lot of effort and practice, and the hardest thing when do hard surface in Zbrush is to control how smooth the edges are, meanwhile in sub-d you just need to adjust couple control edges


    Epic games uses zbrush for a lot of hard surface...

    Hard surface sculpt or don't sculpt is not a new topic, and I always see the name Epic games. Sure, they sculpt hard surface but I think it's depend alot on the art style. Gear of War has a heavy mechanical style, solid and simple silhouette but a lot of surface details, it's not something like COD weapons for example.

    just because Epic games use it, doesn't make it become standard.

    what I wrote on this comment is base on my own experience, and not aply for other fields.

    Again, my point is they're different, and use for different jobs

    I have to agree with you, it's not 'New' technology, but it is new for Zbrush. Pixologic have addressed something that the users have wanted "In Zbrush" for a long time. I believe the Sub-D has also been addressed in 4R7 going by the sneak peak videos.

    I have to agree that it does take alot of practice to smooth out the edges in Zbrush. Again Pixologic addressed this with the new tools. Hence adding a bevel tool where you can change the density on the fly. I think they had some more edge weighting (crease tools) in there also.

    I do use Modo and Zbrush so am not trying to be bias towards Zbrush. Personally I will be interested to see how this thread goes once we have played with the new tools. But then again, a tool in the hands of a bad artist, doesn't make it a bad tool. (As I watched my old man lathing a bit of wood with a screwdriver instead of a chisel. It worked for him though).

    You hit the nail on the head. Different tools for different jobs and have to add what works best for you. Use whatever it takes to accomplish the job in my opinion.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    not quite long time a go, I was wondering the same thing, Zbrush seems like it's very quick and easy to do hard surface stuff, no need to worry about topology any more, just play with clay, why so many hard surface pro still use Sub-D ?

    I decided to try it myself and see what work for me.

    That's the spirit :)
  • beefaroni
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    beefaroni sublime tool
    Hermit wrote: »
    There are a couple of decent hard surface videos currently available on Youtube.

    Yea, I used Tom Pauls hard-surface stuff exclusively for the helmet and a lot of other stuff on my African Union guy in my folio.

    While I did enjoy it, it's SUPER destructive and I spent awhile cleaning up errors in the mesh from the process.

    I think Zbrush is VERY close, but not there yet. 64-bit should help though.
  • artquest
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    artquest polycounter lvl 13
    The best example of Hard surface in zbursh I have seen so far is Joesph Drust's series on the helmet. I believe he had a concept to go on, but the shapes are still pretty organic. But when it comes to making requested sublte changes to this kind of a design in zbrush, I would not want to even try.

    http://pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/lesson/helmet-design-with-joseph-drust/
  • Boban
    Hey Pros, i need some advice. My problem about hard surface is creating the main shapes and form, or little shapes etc. I am not sure how to do that in Maya. I got stuck with complex shapes. Can i do this in Zbrush, with a move tool and dynamesh, just to get the right shape, and then continue in Maya with retopology and adding loops etc. ??
  • JustMeSR
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    JustMeSR polycounter lvl 4
    Boban wrote: »
    ...I got stuck with complex shapes. Can i do this in Zbrush, with a move tool and dynamesh, just to get the right shape, and then continue in Maya with retopology and adding loops etc. ??

    What shapes? You can post them with pictures to get help in 'dem shapes' thread.

    As for the sculpt then retopo, it's a valid workflow. I don't see a reason (other than modeling it right away saves time) why you couldn't do that. :)
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