Artists jobs: England vs America
polycounter lvl 4
Hey guys, it seems a lot of people on here are from America. I hear quite a bit about jobs in America, but I haven't seen much about the situation in England/Europe.
Is game art very similar in these countries? I would assume that America would probably have quite a bit more opportunity for working in large studios.
Anyone who is living in England, what is it like to work as a game artist here? From reading polycount it seems that companies quite often lay-off large teams, is it a similar situation here in England?
Thanks in advance
Is game art very similar in these countries? I would assume that America would probably have quite a bit more opportunity for working in large studios.
Anyone who is living in England, what is it like to work as a game artist here? From reading polycount it seems that companies quite often lay-off large teams, is it a similar situation here in England?
Thanks in advance
Replies
The UK scene if feeling healthier than it has in a long time, there's loads of successful small to medium companies as well as some great AAA stuff. The'rs Lionhead, Rockstar, Creative Assembly, Reflections, Ninja Theory, Frontier, Media Molecule, Splash Damage, Bossa, Slightly Mad, Hello Games, Evolution etc etc etc all doing interesting stuff.
I'm optimistic about UK games at the moment.
How much do you need? Have i amassed a considerable amount of work experience yet?
There's quite a few large AAA companies around in England - Nick's mentioned most of them - and there's also a lot of smaller indie companies popping up, too (a lot of which have formed in the wake of the larger studio closures in recent years). There's also a good handful around in Scotland. In general, I'd agree with Nick in that the industry has felt like it's been on shaky ground recently but it looks like things are shaping up for the better.
I don't think the UK's had it better or worse than the US when it comes to studio closures, but so I think there is less of a "lay off the team after shipping" mentality here. There are definitely a good amount of jobs going around in the UK. Just pick your employer wisely if you can
Can't say what it's like to work here versus anywhere else, though, I've only ever worked in England. Like-for-like wages are quite a bit lower than the US (and in California I believe it's even state law that you get paid overtime - that's highly uncommon anywhere else).
Thats interesting. I know quite a few people who have had opportunities in the states (blizz, for example), and they were coming from EU, with less than 2 years exp. In one case less than a year, and in a another case no exp at all. they were just really good.
But they are the exception?
I am not trying to disprove you, simply curious.
for that to happen you need to be really good, as the company also invests into your O1 visa, they really need to want you. getting a normal work visa without experience is pretty much impossible. Unless you studied, studying is worth 12 years of work experience, great isn't it?
At least 5 boatloads, so you have 8 and it will be fine.
Having an opportunity is not the same as actually getting hired and being brought over, no? The visa process is really tough. You need 12 years of exp, but every year you studied for your degree counts as 3 years exp (that's what I remember Hazardous saying).
I'd have a really hard time believing any company would really be willing to put all the effort and money into the visa process for a junior with less than 2yrs exp. Most 'junior' I've seen is Leslie/Ravenslayer with a 3 years degree and 3 years exp (that amounts to 12 if you work it out).
it happened, blizzard is a really good example.
Thomas Mahler, now head of Moon Studios on Ori, had little prior experience and didn't finish his studies when he was hired for SC2. Of course those are exceptions, but it does happen.
Also concept artist Mr--Jack, aka Luke Mancini. "Imported" by Blizzard from Australia and discovered thru his deviantart gallery. He graduated from arts college so that presumably helped out his visa application process a lot.
http://mr--jack.deviantart.com/art/StarCraft-Nostalgia-362313434
I was just interested in what the differences are, definitely not thinking about job locations yet, still got quite a few years ahead of me
-Woog
I've never heard of the 12 years thing. Everyone I know who went over on O1 and H1B has significantly less than this.
It boils down to how much your potential employer wants you and is willing to invest into lawyer cost. I don't think there are many "hard" rules.
Basically to get a job in the US you need a company that is willing to invest time and money into you before you even can get to work. And only big companies have the money to do so. So you need to make sure you can offer something special in return for that time and money. Also immigration officers dont give a sh*t about what you produce, all they want to see is the awards you`ve won with your work and letters from high profile industry people who say you are good.
10 years ago != now.
Don't forget to factor in commute costs (in terms of both time and money). Its nonsensical to live in one area, only to spend 4-5 hours a day commuting to work.
Also:
Salaries in the UK are indeed much lower and the cost of living is much higher (depending on where you live etc). The industry is very different over here (in the US), much more mature. I can't fault it!
As for physically getting over to the US, I am on an O1 visa, which was (kindly) sponsored by the company I work for. In order to get a visa you really need to be able to demonstrate that not only have you contributed to a couple of games, but that your work has received some attention from the press and doing things like lectures at universities and conferences really helps too.
My best advice would be work where you live for the first few years and keep any evidence of the stuff you do for use in the immigration process if it comes to happen in the future. Seriously, anything is useful, lanyards from conferences, photos of you doing talks and lectures..it all helps!
Scott.
http://www.h1bvisa.info/h1b_visa_requirements
do they have a degree?
i've run through that process twice, my work experience or the lack of a degree always halted it, as the O1 visas usually are gone quick enough.
its not as easy to find studios in europe, but there are quite a lot, you just have to research properly.
Oh I see, you meant H1B. I thought O1 was the common thing to get for artists?
Were you trying to get an H1B by yourself? I thought you need a sponsor/company that is willing to hire you for both. So from an employee's perspective, it doesn't really make a difference which one you get.
So 2 of the 3 games industry hubs in the south of England? The third being Guildford which is equally expensive. Living in a cave in Iceland is also not expensive but there also aren't any games jobs there....
O1 is the Visa for Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement, which is gladly pretty subjective as an artist. as a scientist or a sportsman you have to fullfill many more requirements. O1 are also much more limited overall. The normal working visa is the H1B, the o1 is significantly more work and cost for the employer.
For the employee it only makes a difference when renewing i think.
In my case it didn't even get as far to decide which visa i should take, h1b i couldn#t do due to the lack of experience or a degree and O1 have been used up for the year already.
given the size of iceland i wouldn't say there are no developers, ccp is pretty big :P
h1b has a yearly cap of 65.000, but O1 doesn't, to my knowledge.
I don't know if it's even possible to do only freelance work from the US on a visa. Unless you have a green card.
I don't think there is such a thing as a US work visa that you can just apply for and look for a job/work on your own once you have it.
to work there without a company you would need a greencard, yes. Or be married to someone who has a greencard, or is a citizen.
what do you mean by yearly cap? income for the person having this visa? i do not know of any cap, looking at salary lists they exceed the 65k easily. How would that even work, it's the normal work visa, how would an american company hire say a CEO from europe if there was such a cap?
i think the cap is that they only give out 65k visas per year
ah okay got it, still the o1 visas are as far as i know the rare form of work visas as those are made for the very special guys of their trade. obviously its all a matter of budget and how much a company wants an artist.
http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/h1bvisacaph1bquotasystem/ref/1568/
it has been 65k currently its 85k
That is exactly what I'm saying, I spent a year and a half commuting to London for my job - £500 a month on the train fare, probably something like £600 now. 4 hours a day is not worth your's or anyone's time. Not for the grief - nothing. Work - yes, added interest - awesome, what you really want to do - ejaculation. Minus all the hassle and grief.
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/houses/hampshire/southsea/?include_retirement_homes=true&price_frequency=per_month&price_max=700&q=Southsea%2C%20Hampshire&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/35227359?search_identifier=7fcfd543d3cc07d814d9119ef5d6d52a#KSpIuiIskebli7eT.97
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/19028893#1SEmGkmEct0QZ8gQ.97
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/11283996#PGygStgacqxiYidB.97
You specifically said a 4 bed house. None of those are 4 bed houses.
I would agree with Baj that £750 for a 4 bed is very rare. Unless you go to the middle of nowhere like Wales, or way up North/Scotland, like the map he linked showed.
The reality is that as you get into the centre of ANY major city in the UK, the rent will be high, or they get you with commuting costs. This is just a global fact of the modern world as we compete financially for lack of housing/space. The UK has a well know problem with housing/space.
Been to a few interviews and everything has gone well but ultimately another candidate with more experienced was selected. Perhaps they were letting me down nicely without telling me I'm shite
It's become increasingly hard to get anywhere in the UK industry and without the experience - you can't go anywhere.
Europe and Germany in particular, seem to be on the up and up with studio jobs - might even be a way to get the experience you need.
Actually I'm in the situation right now, where anything in this thread helps me.
I got hired by YAGER in Berlin, one of the few AAA studios in Germany (devs of Spec Ops: The Line, Dead Island 2, ...), almost one year ago. I paused college for that and moved to another city, to first do an internship as a part of my college degree and now work as a regular employee. It's fantastic, and I couldn't be happier with the job. That's why I don't wanna go back to university to finish studying, It would feel like a step back from working on great productions to doing student projects again :poly142:.
Only downside of it (at least from my perspective) is that I don't want to limit myself to Europe, and am uncertain in how hard it would be to get a job in the US later down in my career without a degree.
So anything you guys is helpful, keep it coming!
Quote from the website "UK creative industries are behind some of the best-selling and highest grossing products and franchises in the world, but this success unfortunately does not equate with public awareness that there are UK companies behind them."
http://madeincreativeuk.com/
Also as a side note the games sector in scandinavia is very healthy and I only hear good things from people I know working there. The only down side people talk about is he lack of day light hours in the winter.
Anyone tried applying for EB-3 visa? Or any other visa that does not require finding a job offer?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-3_visa
I did MA in Business at a prestigious school, you think you can get into US based on that? :]
Generally (West Coast of USA) I think the salaries are higher than the UK, with a lower cost of living IF you have medical coverage through your employer. If you don't, that can cost you $1000/month quite easily, and often much more. There are websites out there that can compare cost of living between places - LA and San Francisco are VERY experience to live in.
As for VISAs - I came over on a H1B, which has to be sponsored by a company. If that company lets you go, then your VISA is null and void, and back to the UK you go. This is still the easiest route to get in the US market, however you do have to have a university degree, and a little experience under your belt - which can put a lot of artists out (the degree thing is an absolute must, and you cannot use one of those dodgy online degrees).
The O visas are possible - but getting one is much harder, and apparently more expensive for the host company. There are stories of restaurants bringing guitarists over from other counties to play in their restaurants with an 0 visa - since the definition of "outstanding in your field" can be quite subjective in the creative arts.
Once you do get over, my recommendation is to start your green card application as soon as possible. This can be sponsored by a company, or by marriage - but is the easiest way to stay in the US. There are certainly more jobs here for an artist in the games industry, but of course the US is a much bigger place - you will find studios open and close frequently, and the level of local talent in the major hubs can be quite high.
My best advice is to work hard, get a good portfolio together, and try to specialise in something - that often helps with VISA applications, as well as job applications.