Hello! I'm new, trying to learn more about high poly models (I model, but just little simple cartoon characters), always saw the forum to get information, but now I want to participated and try the challenges (have fun too ^^=)
My character will be the Zilean (just loved the concept), I started yesterday and my plan is to be economic the best I can (to be a 16k or 18k model, 180 cm height for scale) and make good details in face, clothes and a beautiful hair. I think my problems will show when I start the textures...
I'm not modeling all the legs, because the concept just show the feet and a lot of fabric, but I don't know if it is really all right do that, I tested a character made in this way before and it worked fine, what did you think about?
Day 2 update. Female faces are hard! I've managed to get something that looks reasonable but I'm not sure if there is much likeness, I don't think my skill level at this stage will allow me to rectify this issue though without a ton of practice. Still the hands and feet to go!
@devingeesr Thank you for the reference! I think this character seems to be a bit more slender than your average woman though, don't you think? She seems more a heroine type with long legs.
@PyrZern I took your advice and moved the knees down, is this better?
As for the discussion going on about whether the time should be longer etc. I don't think so, i'm participating to learn, maybe not even finish! Having the community working on the same project is really fun and helpful, I think extending the deadline to 2 months would be too long for some. After all you could still just do the bust right?
Ops, my first post appear 2 times, sorry for that _ _".
Nice to meet you all!
@Holly Mellor - your body is good, but the shoulders is strange, it's too large, and the head is far away...look at the proportions.
@Orange - I'm trying to make the clothes with the body too, but I think the guy is strong, so before do all the outfit, I want to make sure that the body shows this before put more
I'm doing the low poly before, trying to make right the edgeloops and proportions, just half - but now I think its time to put together and work more in face
@holly mellor I would like to just point out some little details I see that could make it look better: The neck is too long, space between mouth and nose too.. and I realised while I was doing my sketch reference on top of the concept art, that the girl has some reaaaally long legs, so it's not the kind of concept in which I would use perfect human proportions imo... Just something that looks fine in the eye, but still in the fantasy of the concept...
So here is my update! Started modelling, and got somewhere with the body and the face... I'm quite exhausted so I can't really tell what's wrong but I see it still needs some more love!
A little question came to mind, and I thought of giving it a shot here and ask for your opinion: I started the model with my previously posted reference, modelling from a box in 3Dsmax, and at some point I got really tired of moving vertex by vertex from here to there... So I just exported to Zbrush, dinameshed and kept going... I know I have lost all my topology, but I thought this wont matter later, as I will anyhow need to retopologize including clothes and armor... Am I right?
I'm asking because this is what I have learned myself by tutorials and personal experience, but maybe any of you have a better workflow?
Thanks in advance
And btw, this is my first female body modeled from scratch, so please, criticize it so I can get this darling to look pretty!
Cheers!
@lukazguzman Nice sketch there man !! I think that will serve you well when you model her. I think her elbows are too high though. They should align with her belly button. And her neck seems too leaning forward in the sideview.
@Holly Mellor Before you start detailing her face, and or other parts, here's what else you can do to improve her forms. Note, the ref is off of an average woman, so feel free to shorten up lower body and lengthen her legs (like most illustration of woman)
@Asura Hey there. Are you doing a Chibi/stylized version of her ? Or are you going with the concept? Feel free to use lukazguzman's character sheet. Her head is pretty big.
@lukazguzman About your question, you can keep dynameshing when you move things around. After that is done, I recommend you Zremesh her then Subdiv instead. With subdiv, you can go up and down in levels and your machine will no explode from displaying 10 millions tris all the time at late proj. ZRemesher isn't good for final piece though, so you will still want to retop it again when all is done.
Lemme have breakfast/lunch first, then let's see about your sculpt.
@PyrZern Hey thanks! I think I did okay with the body, but seeing that totally wacked up face haha. Thanks for the tip I never thought about doing that to compare features!
@lukazguzman I totally agree, I noticed she had real long legs too!
@lukazguzman Her shoulders look like she's shrugging. Push her shoulders down. And her head b back a bit. This ref for her head should line up with the Chakram Lady more or less.
And btw, this is my first female body modeled from scratch, so please, criticize it so I can get this darling to look pretty!
how do you work? do you use refs? what kind of refs? basemesh? i think for a beginner thats even more important cause most if not always its the way we do it. if you use the right "tools" you should get better results too
Nice going there man. I think I will make most of the accessories in Maya again, and subdiv the crap outta them in ZB. Seems you get his hair quite correct as well. How does it look from side-way ? I'm struggling with mine.
I think I'm going to also model the rest of the accessories without sculpting. Or at the very least, get them close enough, and then add extra polish through sculpting.
Here's a side view:
I gave him a bit more hair in the back. Helps me picture it pulling the hair down.
@lukazguzman For a first female character, I am very impressed. Most people make wider hips but forget to tilt the angle, but it looks like you got it right. I'd say, just keep trucking, and things will look good as you progress.
@Pyrzern He's looking great, you've done really well on the flowing robes look. I think his hair is a little 'afroish', as opposed to a more volumised gandalf locks look haha!
Update for me, I worked on the hair today and fixed some proportions of the body. Namely made her shoulders thinner and legs longer.
This is the first time I've done hair, how do you guys go about blocking in the inital stage? I watched some tutorials and they seemed to start with a circle then use the snake hook/dam standard brushes but then it seems to get really messy in areas for me. In fact, how would you make these big shapes? The cloak for example.
I`m doing the clothes now, I think it's time to start some mapping, because the details are to much but maybe I need more polys where are going to be the details or the normal map later will have problems (or I use a displacement Map? @-@...so confusing)...well anyway I going to finish all the base and later smooth all or divide only some places where have more details (not decided yet)
@Holly Mellor You will want to focus on big shapes first. Be it hair, or armors or body. Depends on hairstyle, but many times I'd start from a sphere, place it on top of her head, then move it down a bit and push and pull it into shape. Dynamesh often at this stage. Don't think of it as hair strand, but maybe more like a carpet at this point :P and start shaping it up. Add more details and more strands after you get the shape done. You can use the same technique for her cape. And for her scale armors, you might be able to create it easily later with nice Alpha brush, or Noise Maker. But don't do it yet :P Adjust her form and make her armors first. Based on her pose, it would be better if she face her palms down to her thighs, not toward the camera. And chop off her head into a separate subtool will help as well
@Fefs It's kinda hard to see what's going on there. Try importing them over into ZB and see how they look when you subdiv them first ?
@Holly Mellor. Just to iterate on what PyrZern said, big shapes first. What I would use is a lot of inflate, and a lot of trim dynamics. Focus on the planes that change. If you find it hard to visualize, Pretend you have a flat plane and you are placing it on the references hair, and you're also trying to use as few planes as possible.
@fefs Looks like you got the right idea by separating out all your pieces. Are you planning on taking them into zbrush and sculpt the details?
Here's my update on his hair ^^ I sculpt his hair a bit with Orb_Crack after I get the hairstyle I want. I don't think I want to do hair planes for lowpoly for this.
@PyrZern, I import, the problem is not the high poly details, but to apply it later in the low....I just don't want to smooth all, waste polys were you don't see and make the maps strange because of that (not use more polys just in areas that are needed)
Now about your model - I like the details and all (how I do the braided hair?) just think that he is a little skinny, but if you intend to do a gramps type of body - go for that!
@Orange Yeah , when finish the low poly . I think the most hard thing here is stay in the 16k or 18k polys and this will be resolved , but I probably do not go doing the perfect high poly model , just the Necessary and then mirror the parts are equal
Now about your model - Cool detail, where is the hands? O.o doing the details and the guy is like a pirate yet? And try to do the fabrics with different thicknesses
Ok, so this is my progress after around 6 hours spread over 3 days. While I do use basemesh as a reference, I still want to be faithful to the concept art.
I will try to keep all-quad mesh for this version of the model that I will later get to zbrush for adding ONLY small detail, after which I will do retopo for my final mesh that will probably be around 16k polys.
Alright guys, took a couple of days of, not on purpose though. Got a little bit done tonight...
and what it might look like...
A couple of things here. I f*%&*&5 hate eyes! I can't get the size right when I'm placeing spheres, I can't get the eyeliids and shapes right. I can't get my clay to work and fold where I want it... I could use a boatload of tips here guys.
This is a modest amount of work done so far, but I haven't had a day of for 6 days now
Duty calls :P
You guys are rocking this challenge, I love to check this thread everyday and see the awesome progress, it really pushes me to want to work harder/more. Thanks!
Look good there guys. @Busterizer Make sure her thighs follow the form of anatomy as well. Can't tell much right now, hard to see. @Sunn I think you're doing nice thus far. Interesting take on his face You can look up Asian eyes for reference. Try using Pinch brush around eyelids sometimes work in my case.
I have two projects floating over my head for this month but I might try to do a bust for one of these concepts. Technically that's not part of the challenge, but it would just be to show support.
Good luck everybody. Be sure to focus hard on anatomy.
Quick question, I'm working on my model and Zbrush seems to be slowing down and crashing quite often. I'm wondering if I'm wasting space or have too many points or something? Can someone explain to me what active and total points mean? My model currently says I have 600,000 active points and 153million total points. Is this a lot? If so what am I doing that's making it go so high and how do I lower it?
Quick question, I'm working on my model and Zbrush seems to be slowing down and crashing quite often. I'm wondering if I'm wasting space or have too many points or something? Can someone explain to me what active and total points mean? My model currently says I have 600,000 active points and 153million total points. Is this a lot? If so what am I doing that's making it go so high and how do I lower it?
150 million is a lot yes. i hope you refer to polycount? i have to see your mesh though. you probably work inefficient. meaning too high a polycount while you dont really need it i try to be in hangout tomorrow and in general more often. im having a lot of work due to uni but im looking forward to some company on there. hope i could help.
@Holly Mellor ...... I think ZBrush has a feature that GREATLY increase polycount like that. Micro sculpting or something I forgot. I have yet to see real usage of it, though. And yes, 153m is WAY too high for anything of this scale.
Active Point is for the current subtool/mesh you're working on.
And Total Point is for all the subtools combined.
And 1 Active Point is 2 Triangles.
Usually I don't have any subtool subdiv beyond 3mil active pt. 300k-500k pt is where most of my stuff are at. They are quite enough to sculpt details like wrinkles and what not.
As how to fix it and lower the pts down, best use Hangout for this :P
@kay-vonlanthen Yeah the robe was too long, I shortened it, but I will still leave a bit hanging past the feet because I think that's how the robe is designed, based on the concept piece.
@PyrZern yes you're right, when I I've been clicking extract on areas it says micro sculpt at the top and this is when my zbrush crashes. I'm not able to make it onto hangouts tonight! I'll search on the net for a solution and if not I'll drop in when I can .
@kay-vonlanthen Okay I see, would this happen at the stage where for example you divide your mesh to higher levels when it's not necessarily needed? This is only my second ever sculpt in Zbrush and i'm learning everything new, it's quite complicated!
I'm trying to get into the hangout but it's saying my invitation is waiting approval?
@sunn Looking great there! As for the eyes, something that I find myself doing a lot is pinching/moving until I get all my edges needed along the curve of the eyelid, and then smoothing it out. That way, my polies are now positioned where I want them, and I also have a denser polycount around the eyelids. Afterwards, I clean up with clay/inflate/trim dynamics.
for the upper eyelids you should add some folds, they really suggest age well.
@ PyrZern
Its hard to understand 100% where you are going with the style in this, but I think he might benefit from a drastically wider nose. He just doesn't look old to me. Again it might be what you are going for. not sure.
@ Holly Mellor
Some stuff to think about:
drill in facial anatomy and really try to understand some of the place and their interaction. Definitely use ALOT less of the move brush, as it creates a ton of unseemly bumps and stuff all over your sculpts.
I hope this helps you guys.
I am not participating but I did a 45 min speed sculpt of the characters head, since I almost never do stylized stuff at work. Not happy with it at all but hey I tried.
@Shara That face is really pretty! I'm going to do a ton of facial practice as well as body anatomy, once I get the basic tools down.
Hey guys, so I managed to drop the total points down to 17million, which
I still think is a ton if I should be around 3mill. I did this by clicking make polymesh 3D, which obviously lost me my subtools. Is there no way to re-gain these?
After looking into my model a little more closely, I realised the majority of the count was in the body, head and the detailing on the clothing. The body in particular looks like the below in it's description. Where did this 'HighDefPoly' come from, it isn't on any of my other subtools? is this just the result of over dividing? The top detail is also 5m+ in count, is this also too highly divided?
Thanks guys! The help is much appreciated, finding answers to the 'how' questions online is easy enough but getting this specific feedback on the 'why' is almost impossible and it's much appreciated!
@kay-vonlanthen Yeah the robe was too long, I shortened it, but I will still leave a bit hanging past the feet because I think that's how the robe is designed, based on the concept piece.
yah sry i just saw the concept the other day ^^ no problem. keep it up then
Thanks guys! The help is much appreciated, finding answers to the 'how' questions online is easy enough but getting this specific feedback on the 'why' is almost impossible and it's much appreciated!
i feel ya. it takes a while to rap your mind around certain things like workflow and so on. just stick around other beginners like us. the hangout always shows its usefulness
ps: as i can tell you dont work with dynamesh? with dynamesh you wont have to divide the mesh. u mentioned "make polymesh 3d", you should always check that before sculpting. i dont know what happens if you dont do so haha (so that might be the reason why you lost subtools?) u basically sculpt in dynamesh and when you have your shape you can either do a manual retopo or you "zremesh" it. from then on, lets say you have your clean topology. this is the one you will use in the game. with this quadrangulated mesh you can use it as a base for your highres model (sculpted details), extract normal maps or the polypaint you did (polypaint requires a highres mesh).
Replies
My character will be the Zilean (just loved the concept), I started yesterday and my plan is to be economic the best I can (to be a 16k or 18k model, 180 cm height for scale) and make good details in face, clothes and a beautiful hair. I think my problems will show when I start the textures...
I'm not modeling all the legs, because the concept just show the feet and a lot of fabric, but I don't know if it is really all right do that, I tested a character made in this way before and it worked fine, what did you think about?
My progress till now
@devingeesr Thank you for the reference! I think this character seems to be a bit more slender than your average woman though, don't you think? She seems more a heroine type with long legs.
@PyrZern I took your advice and moved the knees down, is this better?
As for the discussion going on about whether the time should be longer etc. I don't think so, i'm participating to learn, maybe not even finish! Having the community working on the same project is really fun and helpful, I think extending the deadline to 2 months would be too long for some. After all you could still just do the bust right?
Nice to meet you all!
@Holly Mellor - your body is good, but the shoulders is strange, it's too large, and the head is far away...look at the proportions.
@Orange - I'm trying to make the clothes with the body too, but I think the guy is strong, so before do all the outfit, I want to make sure that the body shows this before put more
I'm doing the low poly before, trying to make right the edgeloops and proportions, just half - but now I think its time to put together and work more in face
@holly mellor I would like to just point out some little details I see that could make it look better: The neck is too long, space between mouth and nose too.. and I realised while I was doing my sketch reference on top of the concept art, that the girl has some reaaaally long legs, so it's not the kind of concept in which I would use perfect human proportions imo... Just something that looks fine in the eye, but still in the fantasy of the concept...
So here is my update! Started modelling, and got somewhere with the body and the face... I'm quite exhausted so I can't really tell what's wrong but I see it still needs some more love!
A little question came to mind, and I thought of giving it a shot here and ask for your opinion: I started the model with my previously posted reference, modelling from a box in 3Dsmax, and at some point I got really tired of moving vertex by vertex from here to there... So I just exported to Zbrush, dinameshed and kept going... I know I have lost all my topology, but I thought this wont matter later, as I will anyhow need to retopologize including clothes and armor... Am I right?
I'm asking because this is what I have learned myself by tutorials and personal experience, but maybe any of you have a better workflow?
Thanks in advance
And btw, this is my first female body modeled from scratch, so please, criticize it so I can get this darling to look pretty!
Cheers!
@Holly Mellor Before you start detailing her face, and or other parts, here's what else you can do to improve her forms. Note, the ref is off of an average woman, so feel free to shorten up lower body and lengthen her legs (like most illustration of woman)
@Asura Hey there. Are you doing a Chibi/stylized version of her ? Or are you going with the concept? Feel free to use lukazguzman's character sheet. Her head is pretty big.
@lukazguzman About your question, you can keep dynameshing when you move things around. After that is done, I recommend you Zremesh her then Subdiv instead. With subdiv, you can go up and down in levels and your machine will no explode from displaying 10 millions tris all the time at late proj. ZRemesher isn't good for final piece though, so you will still want to retop it again when all is done.
Lemme have breakfast/lunch first, then let's see about your sculpt.
@lukazguzman I totally agree, I noticed she had real long legs too!
how do you work? do you use refs? what kind of refs? basemesh? i think for a beginner thats even more important cause most if not always its the way we do it. if you use the right "tools" you should get better results too
Made the pants, and blocked out his head and hairs... I think I totally got his hair wrong...
Here's how things are looking together:
Here's a side view:
I gave him a bit more hair in the back. Helps me picture it pulling the hair down.
@Orange Nice Thor gif you got there
Update for me, I worked on the hair today and fixed some proportions of the body. Namely made her shoulders thinner and legs longer.
This is the first time I've done hair, how do you guys go about blocking in the inital stage? I watched some tutorials and they seemed to start with a circle then use the snake hook/dam standard brushes but then it seems to get really messy in areas for me. In fact, how would you make these big shapes? The cloak for example.
I`m doing the clothes now, I think it's time to start some mapping, because the details are to much but maybe I need more polys where are going to be the details or the normal map later will have problems (or I use a displacement Map? @-@...so confusing)...well anyway I going to finish all the base and later smooth all or divide only some places where have more details (not decided yet)
@Fefs It's kinda hard to see what's going on there. Try importing them over into ZB and see how they look when you subdiv them first ?
@fefs Looks like you got the right idea by separating out all your pieces. Are you planning on taking them into zbrush and sculpt the details?
Here's the subtool breakdown.
Update:
Spent way too much time trying to polish up this piece. I'm calling it done for now, and I'm moving onto other things.
Learned how to use blender's boolean system today and modeled some of the accessories.
Here's how everything looks together:
Now about your model - I like the details and all (how I do the braided hair?) just think that he is a little skinny, but if you intend to do a gramps type of body - go for that!
@Orange Yeah , when finish the low poly . I think the most hard thing here is stay in the 16k or 18k polys and this will be resolved , but I probably do not go doing the perfect high poly model , just the Necessary and then mirror the parts are equal
Now about your model - Cool detail, where is the hands? O.o doing the details and the guy is like a pirate yet? And try to do the fabrics with different thicknesses
I will try to keep all-quad mesh for this version of the model that I will later get to zbrush for adding ONLY small detail, after which I will do retopo for my final mesh that will probably be around 16k polys.
and what it might look like...
A couple of things here. I f*%&*&5 hate eyes! I can't get the size right when I'm placeing spheres, I can't get the eyeliids and shapes right. I can't get my clay to work and fold where I want it... I could use a boatload of tips here guys.
This is a modest amount of work done so far, but I haven't had a day of for 6 days now
Duty calls :P
You guys are rocking this challenge, I love to check this thread everyday and see the awesome progress, it really pushes me to want to work harder/more. Thanks!
@Sunn I think you're doing nice thus far. Interesting take on his face
is the cloth infront of him just going to hang like this? its too long i think. it goes though the floor
@Sunn Looks great so far! His face looks strong and full of wisdom, which fits Zilean perfectly!
Good luck everybody. Be sure to focus hard on anatomy.
150 million is a lot yes. i hope you refer to polycount? i have to see your mesh though. you probably work inefficient. meaning too high a polycount while you dont really need it
Active Point is for the current subtool/mesh you're working on.
And Total Point is for all the subtools combined.
And 1 Active Point is 2 Triangles.
Usually I don't have any subtool subdiv beyond 3mil active pt. 300k-500k pt is where most of my stuff are at. They are quite enough to sculpt details like wrinkles and what not.
As how to fix it and lower the pts down, best use Hangout for this :P
I will be around for a bit.
@kay-vonlanthen Yeah the robe was too long, I shortened it, but I will still leave a bit hanging past the feet because I think that's how the robe is designed, based on the concept piece.
@kay-vonlanthen Okay I see, would this happen at the stage where for example you divide your mesh to higher levels when it's not necessarily needed? This is only my second ever sculpt in Zbrush and i'm learning everything new, it's quite complicated!
I'm trying to get into the hangout but it's saying my invitation is waiting approval?
You will receive an invitation when the event organizer approves your request."
Ps. I might or might not have just switched it to Public event instead of Private...
Small update for me.
Made some adjustments on his face, then started blocking out metal pieces.
Eyes need to come in more
nose needs some reworking
ears need to come our more.
for the upper eyelids you should add some folds, they really suggest age well.
@ PyrZern
Its hard to understand 100% where you are going with the style in this, but I think he might benefit from a drastically wider nose. He just doesn't look old to me. Again it might be what you are going for. not sure.
@ Holly Mellor
Some stuff to think about:
drill in facial anatomy and really try to understand some of the place and their interaction. Definitely use ALOT less of the move brush, as it creates a ton of unseemly bumps and stuff all over your sculpts.
I hope this helps you guys.
I am not participating but I did a 45 min speed sculpt of the characters head, since I almost never do stylized stuff at work. Not happy with it at all but hey I tried.
Hey guys, so I managed to drop the total points down to 17million, which
I still think is a ton if I should be around 3mill. I did this by clicking make polymesh 3D, which obviously lost me my subtools. Is there no way to re-gain these?
After looking into my model a little more closely, I realised the majority of the count was in the body, head and the detailing on the clothing. The body in particular looks like the below in it's description. Where did this 'HighDefPoly' come from, it isn't on any of my other subtools? is this just the result of over dividing? The top detail is also 5m+ in count, is this also too highly divided?
Thanks guys! The help is much appreciated, finding answers to the 'how' questions online is easy enough but getting this specific feedback on the 'why' is almost impossible and it's much appreciated!
yah sry i just saw the concept the other day ^^ no problem. keep it up then
i feel ya. it takes a while to rap your mind around certain things like workflow and so on.
ps: as i can tell you dont work with dynamesh? with dynamesh you wont have to divide the mesh. u mentioned "make polymesh 3d", you should always check that before sculpting. i dont know what happens if you dont do so haha (so that might be the reason why you lost subtools?) u basically sculpt in dynamesh and when you have your shape you can either do a manual retopo or you "zremesh" it. from then on, lets say you have your clean topology. this is the one you will use in the game. with this quadrangulated mesh you can use it as a base for your highres model (sculpted details), extract normal maps or the polypaint you did (polypaint requires a highres mesh).