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Learn Maya if you already know 3ds max

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BradleyWascher polycounter lvl 13
[UPDATE] ((Today is the Last day of the Sale!!) I am running a christmas sale on this course only till new years for $9 dollars!(Udemy doesn't let you set it any lower) So if you were on the fence before about taking the course or if you wouldnt mind sharing this on your social network I would be super pumped! I hope you all have a wonderful holiday!
Christmas Sale URL:
https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=Christmas2013


Hey guys, I just wanted to share with you a video tutorial class I created for learning Maya if you already know 3ds max. If you need to learn Maya for a new job or just a student that is trying to get ahead of the curve this video series should get you up to speed quick.

Polycount has been a great resource to me through out the years so Ive created a discount code "polycount" for anyone that wants to pick it up on the cheap. If you guys have any feedback or want to see more tutorials like this let me know. Thanks!

https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=polycount

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  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    Right now I'm actually trying to do the opposite, learn Max for a job as I already know Maya XD I really like the spline tools in Max, some of the stuff you can do is great. Anyway good initiative, cheers!
  • BradleyWascher
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    BradleyWascher polycounter lvl 13
    Haha, good to know. In the near future a Maya to Max video might just be on the plate. Hope the transfer is easy enough for you haha.
  • Alphavader
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    Alphavader polycounter lvl 11
    Torch wrote: »
    Right now I'm actually trying to do the opposite, learn Max for a job as I already know Maya XD I really like the spline tools in Max, some of the stuff you can do is great. Anyway good initiative, cheers!

    haha high five mate - ive done the same the past days.. ;)
  • purehilarity
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    purehilarity polycounter lvl 6
    Do the reverse pleasd!
  • EricHall
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    EricHall polycounter lvl 6
    You posted this with perfect timing. We just got the Autodesk Entertainment Suite at work and I've been trying to wrap my head around Maya. I got a copy, makes much more sense now. Thanks!
  • ae.
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    ae. polycounter lvl 12
    Oh this is nice, will definitely take a look.
  • WarrenM
    Awesome, thanks! Been looking for an expedient intro to Maya from a Max perspective...
  • looprix
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    looprix polycounter lvl 8
    How about Maya users to Max??
  • JoeCyriac
    Another request for the reverse, please! :D
  • BarnabyJones
    I use both programs together and I can tell you now its worth it to know both baking in maya is awesome plus 2014 has some great new re topology tools that and once you get the hang of maya it can be a lot faster than max. I still go to max for all my uving and prefer it for highpoly modeling but with the "send to" options its real easy going between the two. Quick tip for anyone going to maya try using the quick popup menus you can get access to by holding ctrl shift and ctrl+shift and clicking the right mouse button.
  • [HP]
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    [HP] polycounter lvl 13
    I started out with 3dsmax and had to learn Maya when I moved the the US.

    It's ok, I can work just fine with it but I honestly hate the fucking thing, the menus are a mess, the UVW editor is incomplete and I miss modifiers like the desert misses the rain. I still don't know what that weird ass menu that appears when you press space, why do my normals get fucked when I do a bridge? Among other things that really annoy me. I guess with 10+ years using 3dsmax you get used to certain things that you only realize you love them and you'd miss them when you loose them.

    I still use 3dsmax at home to stay sane, as I feel complete modeling freedom with it. Although in the end, it ended up being a good experience because I got sorta good at both and I can and do use both at ease although my heart it still with max.

    That said, Maya is a painful reality I have to live with so I will deffo be checking this out and I thank you for putting this together, very very useful!

    Edit: Also, I'm going to grab this topic and go into a bit of a rant, it's a topic that surprisingly it's not very discussed.
    Why oh why does a studio forces a modeling package on you? I mean, I know why, but WHY?
    It's like an artist that spends years painting with a specific kind brush then he gets a job and is asked to paint with a complete different kind of brush. Yes he's still doing art, yes he's still using a brush and can do the same things with it, but why are they forcing it down his throat?
    Let artists use whatever the fuck they want to use, let them feel comfortable with the tools they like so they can deliver better art. Get a tech artist coding an exporter for the different modeling packages, or just use .FBX, works for Epic's engine, Frostbite and others why wouldn't it work for you?
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    I guess if the studio doesn't have the budget to buy employees their package of choice and also to keep things consistent. I agree though, it's a pain, since if you're proficient with one, you have to use another which is going to take you 10 X the time to get the job done!

    You're going to hate anything that's not your beloved software because at the back of your mind you're always thinking "My app could do this, why is it such a pain to do it in this new program" XO

    I've tried Max and cursed at it a few times myself, but I do love the modeling tools, they rock :D
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    [HP] wrote: »
    I started out with 3dsmax and had to learn Maya when I moved the the US.

    It's ok, I can work just fine with it but I honestly hate the fucking thing, the menus are a mess, the UVW editor is incomplete and I miss modifiers like the desert misses the rain. I still don't know what that weird ass menu that appears when you press space, why do my normals get fucked when I do a bridge? Among other things that really annoy me. I guess with 10+ years using 3dsmax you get used to certain things that you only realize you love them and you'd miss them when you loose them.

    I still use 3dsmax at home to stay sane, as I feel complete modeling freedom with it. Although in the end, it ended up being a good experience because I got sorta good at both and I can and do use both at ease although my heart it still with max.

    That said, Maya is a painful reality I have to live with so I will deffo be checking this out and I thank you for putting this together, very very useful!

    Edit: Also, I'm going to grab this topic and go into a bit of a rant, it's a topic that surprisingly it's not very discussed.
    Why oh why does a studio forces a modeling package on you? I mean, I know why, but WHY?
    It's like an artist that spends years painting with a specific kind brush then he gets a job and is asked to paint with a complete different kind of brush. Yes he's still doing art, yes he's still using a brush and can do the same things with it, but why are they forcing it down his throat?
    Let artists use whatever the fuck they want to use, let them feel comfortable with the tools they like so they can deliver better art. Get a tech artist coding an exporter for the different modeling packages, or just use .FBX, works for Epic's engine, Frostbite and others why wouldn't it work for you?

    Yeah I hear you, I taught myself basic modeling and UV'ing with Maya for DICE, but it's not great. Both programs feel dated in interface, but Maya is just the worst in terms of UI. I feel it's missing a few key features (or makes them less accessible) that speed things up a lot for me in Max. Like no proper Edge Constraining but rather putting it in a separate tool.

    But being able to use Python is very nice, coupled with Qt UI. Too bad MEL commands, which PyMEL still mirrors in functionality, are kind of shitty and limited. I feel i can do more with Maxscript.

    That said, the I imagine the reason studios stick with one app is for consistency and things like pipeline. At Dice some people use Max, but it's not ideal, even with FBX:
    • Y-up vs Z-up in either app. You can "fix" it in the export settings, but it just adds a weird "pre-rotation" to the mesh that isn't the same as a aproper fix. It gives big problems when combining meshes that originated from different apps (like destruction models or LODs), the axes get misaligned.
    • Normals and tangents tend to be different. Autodesk obviously hasn't bothered to fix this properly and there's still specific issues with some apps.
    • I created an export script for Maya that speeds up exporting immensely and makes it consistent for all artists using the file. It would be a lot of work to maintain both applications...
    All in all, from a technical point of view you easily get locked into something an application does, and it becomes hard to account for another app. Or at least, it's hard to convince people to fix these issues, as the majority will be fine with the way things are.
  • marks
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    marks greentooth
    Maintaining inhouse tools for two apps in two different scripting languages = more work.

    e/ let's all just use modo, fight the system etc. It genuinely looks like it has more of a future at this point than Max or Maya do.
  • WarrenM
    Yeah, often times there are scripts that are on one package but not the other. It's annoying. I tried to use Modo as my main modeling app for awhile but it's hard when Max has scripts that you need to fit into the pipeline but Modo doesn't have equivalents and blah ... it's just easier to have everyone using the same package.
  • Stinkfoot
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    Stinkfoot polycounter lvl 11
    Ooof gonna do this one, I see maya pop at applications a lot more then i'd like ;) know 3Dsmax but to know where everything in maya is, is a big help.
  • Mark Dygert
    [HP] wrote: »
    Edit: Also, I'm going to grab this topic and go into a bit of a rant, it's a topic that surprisingly it's not very discussed.
    Why oh why does a studio forces a modeling package on you? I mean, I know why, but WHY?
    I see you're rant and I'll add one of my own...

    I agree, for modeling it doesn't make much of a difference, when you get a little deeper into the pipeline like animation or scene building it starts to get a bit more important. The axis orientation is a pain for modelers because they have to rotate their model, its a nightmare for animators and TD's because they have animated rotating joints and not only do the axes need to work together but the rotation order (XYZ, ZYX, YXZ ect...) needs to work. The curves need to be interpreted correctly and on and on.

    It's also due to cost. Autodesk hands out discounts for bulk licensing but if you want a seat of the other software you have to cough up full price. Then, that artist normally needs a seat of the studio favorite software to get access to the in house tools.

    You would think for a company that owns both and has focuses a lot of energy on syncing the apps together and providing some bridges to cross over, they would make mixing and matching software easy and simple, with some kind of bundle.


    But wait look they have this, the Entertainment Creation Bundle. Check the "included software" page:
    3dsmax
    Maya

    Mudbox
    SoftImage
    MotionBuilder
    Sketchbook
    Sweet deal huh, perfect for studios looking to dual use 3dsmax and Maya.

    Now click on the buy page, hey that's almost a decent price, but wait what!? You have to choose Max or Maya... Son of a BITCH. What the hell autodesk!? Could you make it any harder for studios to buy and use your products?

    How hard would it be for autodesk to allow studios to bulk buy licenses and define with packages, they cost the same. How hard is it to allow customers to switch a copy of one for a copy of another?

    We want 20 seats of Autodesk software, 17 in max and 3 in Maya. Right now that's 17 at the bulk price (too bad you didn't get a full 20 seats of max you probably get an even better discount) and 3 seats of Maya and full price.

    3yrs later the demographics of the studio change and you want 19 seats of maya (not sure why but go with it) and 1 seats of max, you have to do some more wrangling and playing with the numbers to see if the discounts work out.

    Unfortunately that factors into candidate selection.

    You also have to deal with peoples personal bias and ego. People often assume software is "stupid" when it doesn't work like their beloved package. Sometimes that endless bitching leads to tools being written and improvements being made but most of the time the FNG just drives everyone nuts by complaining and trash talking. Which puts everyone else in the awkward position of having to explain that its their understanding that is lacking, not the package.

    If you couple that with an attitude of "I'm the hottest shit on the planet because I just got hired, you'all are doing it wrong", which usually doesn't show up in the interviews but manages to work its way to the surface by the time they start. Normally that comes from insecurity and a need to prove themselves, which I understand, but still its stress no one really needs and sometimes its best to just side step that issue.
  • Gusti
    I started off learning 3D on old packages on the Amiga, like Real3D and Imagine, but really started to get into it using Lightwave.
    From there it was 3D Studio (dos version) then Softimage on some rackedy old SGI machines, then the revolution started for real and we got 3DS Max, and around 1998 we got Maya.
    At that point I prefered the workings of Maya over Max, since somehow it felt a little more like Softimage at its core, which is what I was used to using.
    Over the years I´ve often looked at Max and really wanted to start digging into it, since it just seems, tool wise, like a more compelling package for games work.
    But I still always end up back in Maya for one reason or another. I think the UI coupled with the navigation in Max just rubbs me the wrong way or something.

    What I´d like is the modeling tools from Modo and Max thrown in a blender, with the "overall" UI feel from Maya.

    But I strongly agree that we need to really settle on a fixed set of values for space axises... axeez... oh you know, which direction is UP!
    And also on unit scale.. Make these damn packages use real work units at the right scale, at the start, by default so people actually start modeling stuff not to look super silly next to other things due to scale :P

    fek it.. fek it all.. Lets all rebell and go use Lightwave!

    I´ll toast to that... video toast.. hurr hurr hur... get it.... huhh.. video... toaster..

    oh I crack my self up sometimes!
    Now, to find my medication...
  • Cordell Felix
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    Cordell Felix polycounter lvl 9
    YES! thank you dude.
  • Alphavader
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    Alphavader polycounter lvl 11
    [HP] wrote: »

    That said, Maya is a painful reality I have to live with so I will deffo be checking this out and I thank you for putting this together, very very useful!

    hehe - yes, there quite nice tools ind things in max youll miss in maya. You can improve alot with some plugins. Also keep in mind, maya interface was originally made by programmers - maybe that explains alot :P
    Learning the opposite - what i like in max is that there tons of videos tutorials out there - when i started with maya 4 years ago - there wasnt much for maya.

    knowing both programms is a good thing - i would prefer maya after a long time with modeling, but max has some very usefull tools too.
  • BradleyWascher
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    BradleyWascher polycounter lvl 13
    Ive had alot of people requesting a Maya to 3ds video course, so if this is something you interested in I should have it up and running in the next couple of weeks. Thanks again everyone!
  • WarrenM
    I've started messing around in Maya after watching a few of the videos and it's been great! I went from zero to creating something real in almost no time. It's REALLY great to have a series like this that takes away a lot of the mysteries before you dive into a new package...
  • stabbington
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    stabbington polycounter lvl 10
    Perfect timing! Max is my main package and I've already spent a few years switching over to Lightwave and more recently Softimage but Maya's my latest challenge (not least as I have to learn it on the job) and it's been surprisingly less than pleasant so far. Really looking forward to the videos, looks like exactly what I've been needing!
  • rhui099
    Which software is a good one to start? Max or Maya? I've been meaning to dive into countless hours of studying 3d (I've had attempts, but all I can do is self-study for now).
  • jderiggi
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    jderiggi polycounter lvl 9
    Nice! Great idea Brad!

    John
  • [HP]
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    [HP] polycounter lvl 13
    rhui099 wrote: »
    Which software is a good one to start? Max or Maya? I've been meaning to dive into countless hours of studying 3d (I've had attempts, but all I can do is self-study for now).

    It really doesn't matter if you're starting out. Just try 3dsmax for a bit, then maya, then modo and go with whichever you think it's the best for you, that's my best advice really. They all do more or less the same, it's all up to personal tastes.
  • BradleyWascher
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    BradleyWascher polycounter lvl 13
    Yeah 3D software is kind of like a kitchen. An as a 3D artist you're a chef. Once you learn how to cook it really doesn't matter which kitchen you work in. Maya , Max, Modo are all just kitchens full of tools that 3D artists use, and as long as you know how to use the tools you just need to figure out where they are stored.
  • TychoVII
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    TychoVII polycounter lvl 13
    Yeah 3D software is kind of like a kitchen. An as a 3D artist you're a chef. Once you learn how to cook it really doesn't matter which kitchen you work in. Maya , Max, Modo are all just kitchens full of tools that 3D artists use, and as long as you know how to use the tools you just need to figure out where they are stored.

    Mmmmm food...

    Nice going Brad! I'll be checkin this out myself.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    On the subject of studios forcing apps on artist, I am in the camp of letting artists use whatever they want. Simply because, from the art creation standpoint, if an artist comes to a studio and is allowed to use the app of his/her choice ... then not a single tool request will be made by that artist, because he/she is comfortable with their tool anyways. So from there the question of maintaining art tools for both apps is kind of irrelevant.

    Now on the subject of export and pipeline, I think it simply has to be a conscious decision made early on by the tech team, very carefully. Almost every time that a studio has a super strict Max or Maya-specific pipeline, you can be almost certain that the head of the tech team happens to be a Max lover, or a Maya lover. The kind of guy that has always been using this program, knows it inside out, can script the hell out of it, and jokes about how weak the other app is :) Now of course it is important for the animation team to use one unified app for obvious reasons. But honestly, for pure modelling, I think too that it is a bit ridiculous.

    And on the other end of the spectrum, there are some very solid app-agnostic engines out there, like Unity, UDK and Crysis. So at the end of the day the whole argument is kind of invalid anyways :)

    Aaaanyways - I should add that even tho I wish that artists didn't have to switch apps for a new job, it is indeed a reality to cope with ; so huge props go to Bradley for putting that guide together, as it will be very useful to many artists in that situation.
  • Mark Dygert
    Pior, in general I totally agree what what you said, especially about the tech guys forcing their preference down chain and especially for pure modeling. But there are some cases where there will be in house tools written that are specific to what that studio does and that the artist probably didn't have to do before being hired.

    Or they might find out the way they do it is really tedious and incredibly manual in their app of choice but automated in the other app. Yes both apps do roughly the same things but they don't always do them the same way or as well. Then again sometimes its the reverse, a studio does it the long tedious way and the new guy has a quick new awesome way of working that revolutionizes the way everyone works. Purest studios miss out on those kinds of advancements. But then again, the way Autodesk licensees software almost forces studios to be purest...

    If like you said the tech team invests time to maintain two separate sets of tools or finds a way to write the tools in a language that can be wrapped or ported to either app then its less of an issue but even if both apps support a common langue like Python they often do little more than expose Mel or MaxScript to it, you still have different methods of working sitting side by side.

    If they have to write and maintain two sets of tools it's just a pain in the ass and their time is better spent somewhere else. You also have to factor in the time it takes to write one set of tools and then the other, or their development is delayed until both methods work. Sure you can expand the tech art team to handle max and Maya but a studio is more likely to just give into the tech artists preference and hire less workers that use what they use and avoid the whole "nut-ah... ur app is stup!d" arguments that pop up.
  • WarrenM
    Which software is a good one to start? Max or Maya?
    Personal preference. Start with Max and then watch these videos to move over to Maya. Stick with the one you like best. :P
  • dRaster
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    dRaster polycounter lvl 17
    Hi Bradley,

    I stumbled across this today, congrats on the video release. In the Basic UI Layout video, you described the Modeling Toolkit Panel as a "fake modifier panel" and that you'll explain in another video why you don't use it. As an Autodesk Maya developer, this intrigued me enough to purchase your class. In fact, it was the only thing I cared about as I already know 3ds max and Maya very well. It was very disappointing to have gone through all of the videos in your class only to discover that you never once mentioned why you don't use the Modeling Toolkit Panel as you said you would in the Basic UI Layout video.

    Anyway, I'm still very much interested in all feedback from you, or anyone else, about the Modeling Toolkit.

    Best Regards,
    Arash Keissami
  • KellyGracey
    Hey guys, I just wanted to share with you a video tutorial class I created for learning Maya if you already know 3ds max. If you need to learn Maya for a new job or just a student that is trying to get ahead of the curve this video series should get you up to speed quick.

    Polycount has been a great resource to me through out the years so Ive created a discount code "polycount" for anyone that wants to pick it up on the cheap. If you guys have any feedback or want to see more tutorials like this let me know. Thanks!

    https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=polycount

    Thanks so much for being so generous on your knowledge. I'm not program software geek but I'd like to learn some more
  • Fwap
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    Fwap polycounter lvl 13
    This is amazing!
  • BradleyWascher
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    BradleyWascher polycounter lvl 13
    Small Updated, I added two videos to the course last night. They cover more of the common modeling workflow tools and tips and also a video that explains a bit about what the attribute editor is used for when modeling. Cheers!
  • chriszuko
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    chriszuko polycounter lvl 12
    If you make the maya to max videos.. I might have to kiss you!
  • instg8r
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    instg8r polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks so much for putting this together! I learned Max first back in school and then "learned" Maya with the obligatory "here's your one class in Maya...tada". Always been a Max person, and probably always will, but having a real know-how in Maya is a nice thing to have in the back pocket :)

    That being said, I feel super fortunate to work at a studio that works with both programs. I'd say it's pretty close to half Max, half Maya users...and even then, probably leans to the Max side.

    Thanks again for putting in the time, Brad!
  • Octo
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    Octo polycounter lvl 17
    Yeah 3D software is kind of like a kitchen. An as a 3D artist you're a chef. Once you learn how to cook it really doesn't matter which kitchen you work in. Maya , Max, Modo are all just kitchens full of tools that 3D artists use, and as long as you know how to use the tools you just need to figure out where they are stored.


    While you are right, there's still a huge difference imo.
    In max I can model non destructively to a large degree, and automatic non destructive chamfering is such a boost to my modeling and rework/changes.
    Spline modeling is also a big help for lots of types of objects..the modifier stack is almost a must have for me.
    I have a working knowledge of maya, but i feel quite handicapped in it compared to max, even though it's "technically" the same.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    I'm fairly certain money is the reason most studios stick to one software, most companies don't have the budget to double or triple the software costs per employee. You may be able to get by playing license musical chairs but eventually your going to fond yourself owning a license for every software package times number of employees.
  • ExcessiveZero
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    ExcessiveZero polycounter lvl 6
    just 20 bucks?!!!! and im just trying to make the switch (love max but feel the industry is going more maya heavy and why not learn both), You sir have made a sale!

    Edit: Worked out as under 13 quid in GBP! awesome deal
  • redhonour
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    redhonour polycounter lvl 8
    Only $20 = money spent gladly

    ♪ Thank you for being a friend ♪
  • DF 0024
    I have buy it, it's great!

    I wish there was a small section covering the creation of a bone, basic hierarchy and skining.
  • redhonour
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    redhonour polycounter lvl 8
    I've had a great time with rigging and skinning in Maya after watching 3Dmotive's tuts on the subjects. Could be more in depth than you're looking for but well worth the $40 for how much is covered imo:

    https://www.3dmotive.com/f107001
    https://www.3dmotive.com/f102301
  • ExcessiveZero
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    ExcessiveZero polycounter lvl 6
    just finishing up on this, can't recommend it more, i've tried numerous times to get into maya and never had it laid out so well, just got to go over the UVW videos again, play around for a day and I reckon I will be more or less good to go, also realizing the strengths I think it has over 3ds max, dare I say I might end up preferring it soon enough :D.

    so all I can say is thanks for the videos man, great work.
  • BradleyWascher
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    BradleyWascher polycounter lvl 13
    Hey ExcessiveZero I'm really glad you liked the course! Again if you have any questions please just let me know.

    Also on a side note my Maya to Max video should be up by next friday! I will be starting a new thread with a email signup for any one that is interested in that. Cheers! :)
  • nufftalon
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    nufftalon polycounter lvl 11
    I just purchased these videos via udemy.com which is a great website in itself. I am going to be starting on the videos this week and I will post my review.
  • Shilo
    I'm almost ready to purchase but I've been learning maya
    by myself and pretty much just interested in the common modeling
    techniques part..how would you rate the usefulness of that part of the tutorial?
  • BradleyWascher
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    BradleyWascher polycounter lvl 13
    Hey Shilo, the common modeling video's by themselves will do what Ive stated in the course but its not a end all be able of how to do everything in regards to modeling in Maya(think the 80/20 rule). The course was designed as a whole to get you up to speed in a minimum amount of time. If you already have a grip on Maya then it might not be exactly ground breaking, but it is designed to save you time and get you the information in a clean focused format. PM me if you have any questions. Cheers!
  • BradleyWascher
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    BradleyWascher polycounter lvl 13
    [UPDATE] I am running a christmas sale on this course only till new years for $9 dollars!(Udemy doesn't let you set it any lower) So if you were on the fence before about taking the course or if you wouldnt mind sharing this on your social network I would be super pumped! I Hope you all have a wonderful holiday!
    Christmas Sale URL:
    https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=Christmas2013
  • [Deleted User]
    Would you consider making one for Maya to 3dsmax?
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