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Is it considered cheating ?

Nesmos
polycounter lvl 6
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Nesmos polycounter lvl 6
Hey, i'm new to drawing and i am trying to draw circles and straight lines freehand. its difficult since i can't actually draw a good circle or line, i read online somewhere that if you can't draw a circle freehand or a straight line you're not a true artist.

Is it considered cheating using tools to help you create those shapes you can't achieve on your own ?

I am reading andrew loomis - fun with a pencil, he says at the beginning all you need to know is how to draw a circle, it can be messed up as you like.

A quote " don't start out with that old gag, "i couldn't draw a straight line." Neither can I, freehand. If we need a straight line, we can use a ruler. Now please try it, just for fun.

I don't know what to think since i'm pretty new to drawing, what is your opinion ?

Thanks for your time.

Replies

  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    Nesmos wrote: »
    i read online somewhere that if you can't draw a circle freehand or a straight line you're not a true artist.

    Ignoring that this is the silliest thing I've ever heard, anyone who tries to tell you what a "true" artist does is probably a pretentious shit head
  • LRoy
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    LRoy polycounter lvl 10
    if you're trying to draw circles and straight lines freehand then using a ruler or compass is cheating.

    if you're trying to be a true artist then good luck, i have no idea what that means.
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycount sponsor
    It's not cheating to use the tools available to you in order to achieve the desired result. When deadlines matter, people aren't going to give a shit how you did something (assuming you stay within legal boundaries, aren't stealing, etc), they just want it done. When you're painting digitally if you want a circle, the default brush is a circle. *Dot* That's all it takes. Especially things like lines, if they need to be straight, trying to do them freehand due to some misplaced sense of legitimacy only leaves you open to errors.

    That being said, while I don't think it illegitimate to use the tools available to you, I do think there are benefits in practicing within certain limitations. I think a lot of people fall prey to using too many of the tools available to them when it comes to digital work, photosourcing overlays, relying too much on custom brushes to try to do the work for them, etc. Not that these practices are "illegitimate", but knowing how to work without them can make your work done with them even better.

    tl:dr - No, it's not cheating if you need to snag a ruler for line, or the bottom of a glass for a circle. Learning the "shortcuts" is arguably part of the artistic journey. But practicing drawing them freehand can't hurt, especially if doing things by hand is something you anticipate being a significant portion of your workflow. :)
  • AA3D
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    AA3D polycounter lvl 3
    " if you can't draw a circle freehand or a straight line you're not a true artist. " :poly117:

    wha ... what ??

    dude just draw ...
    even tracing over an image behind the paper is considered a kind of practice


    i guarantee that the person who said the above statement was not able to draw a circle freehand or a straight line at first ..
  • Clark Coots
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    Clark Coots polycounter lvl 12
    heres a video by Scott Robertson that could help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaZmwHU7vZo

    He's an incredible artist/designer and yet after decades of drawing even he can not draw perfect ellipses and circles freehand all the time. So don't be that hard on yourself. If you want to get better at freehand drawing ellipses and lines, then practice, if you need to use tools that's perfectly fine.
  • huffer
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    huffer interpolator
    You don't have to draw perfect circles and ellipses, but you could pay attention to line quality, and avoid scribbled and feathery lines - every line you put down should be there on purpose. A sure, bold stroke pops up and just looks cooler :)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Personally, if I ever find out an artist has used a tool to make his work, I immediately fail them.
    I don't pass them.

    They get an F.
  • katana
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    katana polycounter lvl 14
    A line or ellipse drawn freehand, is a line or ellipse drawn with character.

    Character is what defines the voice of an artist, otherwise known as style.

    as AA3D has already said...Just Draw.

    (..but draw alot...that is what makes you better. Be prepared to spend years on it.)
  • gsokol
    i read online somewhere that if you can't draw a circle freehand or a straight line you're not a true artist

    Whoever said that is a shithead.

    That being said...it might be good to eventually ease off of using rulers and such and try to do it all freehand...with a whole lot of practice you'll get the coordination/muscle memory down. Besides...like Katana said...being imperfect with those things adds character.
  • Gestalt
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    Gestalt polycounter lvl 11
    You're only a true artist when you can draw a perfect circle with no tools at all. Until then your art, and anything else you make, is completely worthless, and 'true artists' are obliged to destroy them whenever possible...

    Honestly in my opinion there really is no such thing as 'cheating' if you're trying to get a certain result. BUT if you're practicing to become better at making decisive strokes with better control then yeah you'll want to do it freehand. If you need a straight line or perfect circle for an actual piece and you can't do it well freehand then go ahead and do what you need.

    If you have a large surface for drawing try using your arm and not just your wrist to make cleaner circles/ellipses. Being able to draw a decent freehand circle/ellipse/line can be helpful for things related to perspective and constructing a form. It's also just a good exercise in general and easy to do for a few minutes before you start on something more interesting.
  • mystichobo
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    mystichobo polycounter lvl 12
    If you want to do circles, do rough circles, they don't have to be clean or perfectly round, just draw them.

    I have a feeling, because it was one of the major hurdles I had to overcome, that you are drawing things first shot and expecting them to be clean finished products. Draw a fuckload of circles/elipses, set yourself some time limits, and just generally work with them a lot. You don't get a better feel for something without having done that action hundreds of times.
  • Nesmos
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    Nesmos polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks for your opinion guys, i do prefare to draw free hand circles and straight lines than using tools since i get a sense of accomplishment when i finish a drawing without tools. if i need to use a tool to get a great circle i will but i will still practice drawing everyday.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    don't worry about perfection. If your line-work is less than perfect than perfect circles and straight lines will stand out like sore thumbs.
  • valuemeal
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    valuemeal polycounter lvl 6
    i wouldn't use the ellipse tools, those are no good at all. I used them during high school, and it made me afraid to draw without them. Just do entire pages of circles and lines, and you will eventually be able to do them perfectly. Worked for me at least.
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    Artists use every means they possibly can to speed up their workflow and improve quality. It's ridiculous not to, especially as a professional.
    Even paper and pencil artists use rulers and protractors.
  • ZeroMoon
    Yeah, the whole freehand thing, with circles and straight lines, is mainly to train yourself to get better at doing freehand. Using tools to achieve your goal isn't bad, you just might not train certain aspects with drawing.
  • ExcessiveZero
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    ExcessiveZero polycounter lvl 6
    http://lazynezumi.com/ + Tablet + Photoshop= clean lines.

    this is the 21st century people, practice is good and good lines will come in time, but theres no harm using the tools available to you, the "real" artist creates, overcoming anything in his life- like shitty line control, or those dudes that have no hands so paint with their mouth.

    I love assisting software, why wouldn't I want the cleanest lines possible using the tools available to me.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Actually you're only a true artist if you can draw this without picking up your pencil or overlapping any lines :poly142:

    house.gif
  • inflict3d
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    inflict3d polycounter lvl 7
  • Equanim
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    Equanim polycounter lvl 11
    This "perfect circle" idea stems from a thirteenth century artist named Giotto.
    http://100swallows.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/giottos-o/

    Neat trick, but it's not bare minimum to be an artist. Also he did use a tool, his posture.
  • StephenVyas
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    StephenVyas polycounter lvl 18
    frell wrote: »
    Actually you're only a true artist if you can draw this without picking up your pencil or overlapping any lines :poly142:

    house.gif

    I had a 'friend' show me this back many many years.. except all the sides had additional triangles.
    He said it was possible to do without lifting up your pen. I tried to get it to work for at least a year
    It haunts me to this day

    edit::: i can feel my blood pressure rising, just by looking at that stupid symbol again lol
  • D4V1DC
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    D4V1DC polycounter lvl 18
    You can do that without lifting, i just figured it out by thinking about it.
    Sorry took me 2 minutes :( don't hurt me. lol
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPn4c3uO2R8&feature=youtu.be
    Unless this is not how it's done?

    Op just draw and kick ass, but make sure you learn anatomy and lighting and coloring those are pretty much essential (I found out) to make things looks great in any medium, be it 2D or 3D.
    Happy drawing.
  • StephenVyas
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    StephenVyas polycounter lvl 18
    heh, i won't hurt you. That's how it's done.

    Now try this one ::
    U8Twj36.png
    No double backing, or lifting your pen off.

    If you get this one.. i might hurt you lol :icon60:
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    That computer science degree really pays for itself I see, everyone knows you can't construct an Euler path in a graph that has more than two vertices of odd degree.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eulerian_path (warning: math)
  • reverendK
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    reverendK polycounter lvl 7
    I had a comparative amatomy teacher who had us do a minimum of 10 pages a week of nothing but curves elipses amd straight lines. It was an amazing class and i still do those pages on my own.
    The real purpose of the excercise is to train your brain and your hand/arm to work together - and to get your muscle memory built up. Treat it like martial arts. Doing the drills over and over in a practice scenario so that when you nees to do it for real your body can make the shape your brain asks it for without actually haning to think about making it.

    And any "true artist" who can make a perfect circle in one stroke will only get that circle 1/100 times and less if they dont keep doing those excercises every day. Muscles are forgetful.
  • Odow
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    Odow polycounter lvl 8
  • Psyk0
  • NegevPro
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    NegevPro polycounter lvl 4
    Spongebob had the right idea

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmqsk1vZSKw"]How To Draw Perfect Circle - YouTube[/ame]
  • skankerzero
    Nesmos wrote: »
    i read online somewhere that if you can't draw a circle freehand or a straight line you're not a true artist.

    I also read online that Bigfoot was sent here by aliens from the planet Nemesis.
  • D4V1DC
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    D4V1DC polycounter lvl 18
    Odow wrote: »
    imag3e_by_odow-d7ed7d2.png

    Your crossing the streams, though, i think your not supposed to do that otherwise i'd get that circle one.
    Haven't given it time though. :poly124:
  • l.croxton
    I was told once if you can draw a perfect circle by freehand you are crazy :P
  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAhfZUZiwSE[/ame]


    serious note. Not even the pro's do perfect circles, but they get close. Then they use ellipse guides. The purpose of being able to freehand cirlces is so that you can do confident lines and not have "hairy" sketches. So the drawings stay clean. Anyhoo, I bought Scott robertsons "how to draw" recently and I can say its probably the best how to draw book i've ever owned. His knowledge of perspective and how to draw ellipses is astounding.

    I've also got into a habit of filling pages with circles and perspective doodles on a daily basis. It's helped a lot.

    [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaZmwHU7vZo[/ame]


    Also, btw... If anyone tells you using any tools or techniques to create something is "cheating" then they are very ill informed or just trolling you. Do you consider using pens, pencils, rulers, markers, photoshop, maya, tracing paper, etc... Cheating?... They are all tools created to help you do something... People say using photos is cheating... Poppycock I say. Use what you like to get results. The better you get the less you'll need the tools.
  • killnpc
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    killnpc polycounter
    if you can draw a perfect circle or line freehand than you have very good draftsmanship. glad i could help clear that up.
  • DrunkShaman
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    DrunkShaman polycounter lvl 14
    Nesmos wrote: »
    Hey, i'm new to drawing and i am trying to draw circles and straight lines freehand. its difficult since i can't actually draw a good circle or line, i read online somewhere that if you can't draw a circle freehand or a straight line you're not a true artist.

    Is it considered cheating using tools to help you create those shapes you can't achieve on your own ?

    I am reading andrew loomis - fun with a pencil, he says at the beginning all you need to know is how to draw a circle, it can be messed up as you like.

    A quote " don't start out with that old gag, "i couldn't draw a straight line." Neither can I, freehand. If we need a straight line, we can use a ruler. Now please try it, just for fun.

    I don't know what to think since i'm pretty new to drawing, what is your opinion ?

    Thanks for your time.

    You do require to learn the foundations of Arts to make arts, so many artists enforce this rule of thumb regarding you drawing a straight line and a circle (does not really have to be perfect,) and not use eraser. They do that to help you easing up your hand from all the stiffness and build confidence.

    That being said; You can use any tool that you need to finish the job.
  • StephenVyas
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    StephenVyas polycounter lvl 18
    "What's so great about a Circle?", said the lonely Parallelogram
  • Mark Dygert
    There's so much other sh!t to worry about, go draw.
  • rolfness
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    rolfness polycounter lvl 18
    A little tongue isn't cheating...
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