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Erp i guess this would be a sketch thread right? OMG i'm so new!

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jksl polycounter lvl 4
adsgu.jpgso yea lol i'm far from professional! i havn't gone to school to learn this program but i'd like to one day!! like sooo want to but for now i will try my best and make things but... dont get to underwhelmed lol =3 feel free to critque me cause omg i soo need it thanks in advance ^.~

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  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    sdaq.jpg I will be dumping crap in here till i actually go to school to learn lol xD is there any good tutorials to make hair clothes?
  • Selaznog
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    Selaznog polycounter lvl 8
    I think the mouth on the first on is too wide, and for some reason reminds me of a muppet. Second one is much better. What are you going to school to study/which school? It seems you have a good grasps of the basics of zbrush. As long as you have the drive, just continue with the self taught path posting here and following tutorial. Could save you tens of thousands of dollars. You're off to a good start!
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Selaznog wrote: »
    I think the mouth on the first on is too wide, and for some reason reminds me of a muppet. Second one is much better. What are you going to school to study/which school? It seems you have a good grasps of the basics of zbrush. As long as you have the drive, just continue with the self taught path posting here and following tutorial. Could save you tens of thousands of dollars. You're off to a good start!
    haha the first one was my first sculpt i've ever done its 6 months old just never got around to posting it and thanks i really like the second one to :D Hmm right now i'm going to school at keiser :( it's really bad for game design but i'm trying to teach myself but so difficult lol but thanks really appreciate it :)
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    sdwe.JPG i only had about 30 mins to sculpt today :( this one is a bit weird for me as i was attempting an almost cartoony like character... sculpting with no reference is tough lol xD!~
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    This happens to a lot of new artists. They want to speed paint or speed sculpt right away like they see the professional artists do. I think everybody gets in over there head and want to do professional level stuff right out of the gate, it happened to me to lol. Sooner or later you realize that isn't possible, and you have to do lots of studying in order to get to that level.

    I feel like these sculpts are not doing much for your learning process and if you want to improve you should approach it a different way. Try to do anatomy studies and sculpt a few perfect faces before you try to do fancy speed sculpts. Really dig into what it takes to model a human face, as well as the entire body. Anatomy is key, and you are not going to be able to learn it by doing a bunch of rushed busts.

    Good luck, and keep going!
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    BARDLER wrote: »
    This happens to a lot of new artists. They want to speed paint or speed sculpt right away like they see the professional artists do. I think everybody gets in over there head and want to do professional level stuff right out of the gate, it happened to me to lol. Sooner or later you realize that isn't possible, and you have to do lots of studying in order to get to that level.

    I feel like these sculpts are not doing much for your learning process and if you want to improve you should approach it a different way. Try to do anatomy studies and sculpt a few perfect faces before you try to do fancy speed sculpts. Really dig into what it takes to model a human face, as well as the entire body. Anatomy is key, and you are not going to be able to learn it by doing a bunch of rushed busts.

    Good luck, and keep going!
    i know anatomy quite well... i was just testing to see what i can do for a cartoon character without a reference it was a test for myself..
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Making a Black Canary character for an internship for an indie game company not sure if i should make a new thread or not ...
    blackcanarywipbywitchul.png
  • slm
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    slm polycounter lvl 7
    I echo what Bardler says. Slow down, really take your time and learn your forms. You do this by gathering reference material (ala photo ref library and lots of anatomy books) and practicing, practicing, practicing your sculpting. So basically, keep doing what you're doing now, but try doing it a little slower and don't be afraid to take your time and put your heart into it. ^^ You seem to have a lot of enthusiasm, which is awesome, keep it up.

    EDIT: And in taking into account what you just posted, yes! More of that. That head sculpt seems like it took more time, yes?
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    slm wrote: »
    I echo what Bardler says. Slow down, really take your time and learn your forms. You do this by gathering reference material (ala photo ref library and lots of anatomy books) and practicing, practicing, practicing your sculpting. So basically, keep doing what you're doing now, but try doing it a little slower and don't be afraid to take your time and put your heart into it. ^^ You seem to have a lot of enthusiasm, which is awesome, keep it up.

    EDIT: And in taking into account what you just posted, yes! More of that. That head sculpt seems like it took more time, yes?
    Yea this one took me a while.... was working on it over the weekend just now got around to showing it
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    jksl wrote: »
    i know anatomy quite well... i was just testing to see what i can do for a cartoon character without a reference it was a test for myself..

    Dude! Those first three sculpts just come off really amateur compared to that last one you posted. I apologize for that assumption, but they just seemed to lack a lot of basic anatomy stuff.

    That last one you posted is really good! Keep doing more of that.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    BARDLER wrote: »
    Dude! Those first three sculpts just come off really amateur compared to that last one you posted. I apologize for that assumption, but they just seemed to lack a lot of basic anatomy stuff.

    That last one you posted is really good! Keep doing more of that.
    haha it's fine when i take my time it comes across a little differently i know what you mean just can't find a solid concept i'm happy with to take it seriously :(
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Capture.png This is a W.I.P please disregard the obvious disregard for anatomy this is just something i've dreamed about and just a quick sketch might make the full character but omg the nightmares toooo much xD and yay i have my pc back gonna start modeling regularly and posting... And regarding the black canary sculplt i've made sadly my pc died and lost all my progress sooo on my new pc :D
  • Selaznog
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    Selaznog polycounter lvl 8
    Cool to see you posting again!
    I can't say I like your most recent stylized sculpt... I'd really like to see more realistic stuff!
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Selaznog wrote: »
    Cool to see you posting again!
    I can't say I like your most recent stylized sculpt... I'd really like to see more realistic stuff!

    haha was a little doodle but i agree just trying to remember everything cause i pretty much forgot everything haha trying to re teach myself :D once i find a solid concept i'll do more realism
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    akjda.png
    Ok so i've been practicing and trying a new way i saw how to make hair with zspheres i know i messed it up but there is always next time :P
  • Eliteabix
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    Eliteabix polycounter lvl 5
    Okay guys, I saw this poster a while back and people were concerned about the disparity in skill level.

    Just a heads up that the work shown may not be his/hers and you may be wasting your time offering critiques:

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124748&page=2

    http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tds/tattoos_designs_symbols_oni_masks_inspiration.htm

    I really think you should battle on if you REALLY want to get good at this but no one can offer relevant critiques if the work your showing is not yours, neither will they want to; its okay to not be amazing as a beginner - everyone starts somewhere.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    firstly dear i didn't draw the mask nor did i claim i drew it just simply posted a picture if you can't offer me advice or critques then please stop there
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    @jksl: What is the art plan for the next month?
  • Eliteabix
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    Eliteabix polycounter lvl 5
    You actually stated you drew it twice, but other people can make their mind up, like I said - just something to be aware of.

    on the previous page

    @jksl - "i was using a picture i drew earlier today"
    @JadeEyePanda - "Post it"
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    Eliteabix wrote: »
    You actually stated you drew it twice, but other people can make their mind up, like I said - just something to be aware of.

    i said i was using my drawing as a reference as i stated before i only use a mouse so a drawing is pen and paper that is clearly not pen and paper...so i mean c'mon man get with it
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Yes, what are you planning to accomplish in the next month art wise?

    Btw, I do not think snapping back like that to mistaken individuals will help keep relations optimal between your fellow professionals.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    yea i know but it's so hard to defend yourself when people think otherwise ... just might stick with deviant art honestly.. Well really the same goal practice practice practice participate in challenges things along those lines
  • drysider
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    drysider polycounter lvl 9
    It's pretty obvious that a lot of this work isn't yours. Somehow you go from posting your supposed 30 minute cartoony sculpt which is very distorted and looks like its created by a total newbie to 3d software, and then an immaculate character face.

    You're not going to be able to get away with posting something that very obvious shows lack of facial plane knowledge and anatomy, especially since so many people here are professionals, and then the next day something that looks like it's done by a veteran. If you're actually serious about becoming an artist of any kind, don't bother trying to stroke your ego with work that you haven't fully done. You're just cheating yourself out of learning and out of your chance to be a professional.

    Since I'm willing to bet that your 30 minute cartoony sculpt is your only 100% legit piece, I'd suggest, as critique, that you start researching and referencing facial anatomy and facial planes. At the moment it seems like you're just drawing different facial features onto something - nothing ties in together as an entire face, it's just almost like separate objects with no coherent style floating together. There's a large anime eye but the mouth is attempting to be realistic. Teach yourself realistic facial anatomy before trying to stylize, since without intimate artistic knowledge of what faces actually LOOK like, realistically, you won't be able to understand how to stylize them well enough.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    drysider wrote: »
    It's pretty obvious that a lot of this work isn't yours. Somehow you go from posting your supposed 30 minute cartoony sculpt which is very distorted and looks like its created by a total newbie to 3d software, and then an immaculate character face.

    You're not going to be able to get away with posting something that very obvious shows lack of facial plane knowledge and anatomy, especially since so many people here are professionals, and then the next day something that looks like it's done by a veteran. If you're actually serious about becoming an artist of any kind, don't bother trying to stroke your ego with work that you haven't fully done. You're just cheating yourself out of learning and out of your chance to be a professional.

    Since I'm willing to bet that your 30 minute cartoony sculpt is your only 100% legit piece, I'd suggest, as critique, that you start researching and referencing facial anatomy and facial planes. At the moment it seems like you're just drawing different facial features onto something - nothing ties in together as an entire face, it's just almost like separate objects with no coherent style floating together. There's a large anime eye but the mouth is attempting to be realistic. Teach yourself realistic facial anatomy before trying to stylize, since without intimate artistic knowledge of what faces actually LOOK like, realistically, you won't be able to understand how to stylize them well enough.
    Umm..this goes to show how you know nothing..the cartoony sculpt was my first sculpt in zbrush "my muppet" the second my black canary maya imported to zbrush for coloring..the one i just posted completely done in zbrush dynamesh...
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Also, just as a bit on the profressional bit and for the marketing of your future threads, do NOT subject title the thread as "Erp i guess this would be a sketch thread right? OMG i'm so new!"

    It comes off as unprofessional. I think you'll get more hits if you're straight forward about this being "jksl's Sketch Thread" or "Ninja WIP."
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    yes i just didn't want to make another thread :(
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    And one more gentle critique, please punctuate properly. You have to hone your writing skills above a certain standard, even in a place like this, punctuating will help make reading your writing a lot easier.

    I've had team mates send me emails that are barely legible or easy to read because they use ellipses ("...") and say "yeaaaaaahhh" in the subject header that it takes me longer than 5 seconds to realize what the subject of the email is about.

    Good punctuation saves time.
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    I don't mean to pile it on, but to me I have to say, I don't believe that someone capable of creating such a nice face, like the black cannary face, in Maya, is not able to transfer that skill to zbrush, an arguably 10x easier environment to work in.

    If it was just a matter of software skills, I would give you the benefit of the doubt, but it's all of the other associated skills that leave me to question you.

    The black cannary sculpt shows knowledge of the planes of the head, anatomy, and other skills. The sculpts you have otherwise shown, regardless of your ability to work in zbrush, do not show any of these abilities whatsoever.

    Can you reasonably say that these arts are 100% yours. That you did not use another artists base-meshes etc?

    When I browse your deviant art gallery: http://witchula.deviantart.com/gallery/

    And I see things like this: http://witchula.deviantart.com/art/Anyone-Want-This-Loli-283956051

    it makes me wonder if these are your models too, which show a certain quality of work (although, the subject matter...), which again, I would think would show up again in any new software you are using. Unless of course, these models weren't made by you.

    And then on top of this one above, here is another example of your work:
    http://witchula.deviantart.com/art/MMD-NewComer-Yuno-283022849

    You can correct me if I am misunderstanding your post there, but it appears that just under the image you are listing off all of the models that you used, for example you credit MMDFakewings18 for the lady model.

    http://mmdfakewings18.deviantart.com/gallery/

    That person deviant art page looks much more indicative of the skill to make a model like that than what you have here, so I am assuming this is where you got the model for the image.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    sorry sorry english is still a problem for me i will work on this
  • drysider
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    drysider polycounter lvl 9
    Uh huh. Yet the cartoony sculpt you apparently did the day that you posted it. You said so yourself.

    If these are supposedly your first sculpts then why are you posting them? If you want critique, you should be posting work that is recent, or that you are currently working on. There's no point critiquing older work since you're not going to go back to refine it and nobody knows how much you've improved since then, it ends up being counter productive. The only way you're going to improve is if you post content that is 100% your own. You'll get a lot more attention and praise if you work on your own pieces - we want to see YOUR ART progress and improve, not somebody else's! Especially if you want to look at an internship or school, employers and teachers wont be impressed if you deliver something that isn't 100% yours. You won't be hired, and you'll fail assignments. Better get out of the habit now before somebody in real life notices and there are larger consequences.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    ysalex wrote: »
    I don't mean to pile it on, but to me I have to say, I don't believe that someone capable of creating such a nice face, like the black cannary face, in Maya, is not able to transfer that skill to zbrush, an arguably 10x easier environment to work in.

    If it was just a matter of software skills, I would give you the benefit of the doubt, but it's all of the other associated skills that leave me to question you.

    The black cannary sculpt shows knowledge of the planes of the head, anatomy, and other skills. The sculpts you have otherwise shown, regardless of your ability to work in zbrush, do not show any of these abilities whatsoever.

    Can you reasonably say that these arts are 100% yours. That you did not use another artists base-meshes etc?

    When I browse your deviant art gallery: http://witchula.deviantart.com/gallery/

    And I see things like this: http://witchula.deviantart.com/art/Anyone-Want-This-Loli-283956051

    it makes me wonder if these are your models too, which show a certain quality of work (although, the subject matter...), which again, I would think would show up again in any new software you are using. Unless of course, these models weren't made by you.

    haha no no the loli thing was pre made models in a program called mmd, as for the base meshes i did use base meshes the "Muppet one" was from zbroz the black canary from scratch from using image plans in maya just brought in maya for coloring the cartoon from a sphere and i use a mouse i don't own a tablet so my zbrush stuff comes out a bit wonky but i'm learning
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    drysider wrote: »
    Uh huh. Yet the cartoony sculpt you apparently did the day that you posted it. You said so yourself.

    If these are supposedly your first sculpts then why are you posting them? If you want critique, you should be posting work that is recent, or that you are currently working on. There's no point critiquing older work since you're not going to go back to refine it and nobody knows how much you've improved since then, it ends up being counter productive. The only way you're going to improve is if you post content that is 100% your own. You'll get a lot more attention and praise if you work on your own pieces - we want to see YOUR ART progress and improve, not somebody else's! Especially if you want to look at an internship or school, employers and teachers wont be impressed if you deliver something that isn't 100% yours. You won't be hired, and you'll fail assignments. Better get out of the habit now before somebody in real life notices and there are larger consequences.
    they are all mine and i posted the pictures when i first signed up for polycount to show you guys..nothing more nothing less
  • Eliteabix
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    Eliteabix polycounter lvl 5
    Can we see the images you used for reference for the "black canary" and some wire frames?
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    asdfaqw.png2w.png
    i mostly modeleted after keira knightly and some other models i found on google and the black canary comics
  • Eliteabix
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    Eliteabix polycounter lvl 5
    Well the topology is near flawless - far better than I can do. Have you got any work on progress shots or can you guide us through the steps you took to make this?
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Just out of curiosity, did you back up any files during the creation process. Like save one file at midpoint with only half of her done, that you could show us?
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    i wish i could show you something ysalex my pc died before i could even finish it all i have are the pics i uploaded, as for the steps i just plane modeled it in subdivsion mode is what i did
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    But you did do some zbrush modeling on the cannary model, it's not all Maya, correct?
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    i only textured her in zbrush and tried to make the hair and added details to her face in zbrush
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Well, I don't know man. It's maybe not my place or anybodies place to put judgement on you without definitive proof, but I just can't help but feel like you're being dishonest about something. Totally willing to admit I am wrong if I am, but from the work you've shown I just have a hard time seeing it.

    The upside is that admittedly, you don't need anybodies approval, so whether or not I believe you, if you are being honest I suggest you shake me off and keep working to get better, and if you really are being honest, you have my sincere apology for my presumptions. If you are not being honest, my only advice would be that you cannot get better in that manner, and if this isn't your work, then its a waste of your own time, which is a shame.

    Either way, best of luck.
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    thanks.. as i mentioned before i really don't have a need to lie to anyone here as i don't know who any of you are so wouldn't really be worth the time or effort
    as for what i was trying to do earlier with the hair with zspeheres i was trying to emulate this guy http://www.deviantart.com/art/Senkanseiki-wip-428716067
  • Eliteabix
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    Eliteabix polycounter lvl 5
    You don't have any screenshots etc but you can tell us your process right? Or
    How you got such great edge flow etc. - if you could walk us through this we may be able to better judge your skill level and critique accordingly.
  • CapableWizard
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    CapableWizard polycounter lvl 9
    So this looks to me like one of Ryan Kingslein's sculpts? (it's more obvious in the video)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JhBsp1tGGU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JhBsp1tGGU[/ame]

    I haven't bought anything from ZBrushWorkshops but I'm assuming you get a copy of the model.

    If the model is actually being used for an internship somewhere I suggest you definitely come clean as soon as possible. Stealing art will cause an uproar here but if this was used in a game the company is breaking all kinds of laws by using it.. You can probably be held responsible and sued for damages so you should make every effort to make them aware of the situation.

    As for stealing other peoples work, don't do it. Not only is it potentially harming someone else but how do you think you will ever improve? Why even ask for critique for something you didn't make, such a huge waste of time for you and people trying to help.

    Post stuff you actually made and people will try to help, everyone starts from somewhere and everyone understands that. I guarantee if you keep working hard you will improve, there are no shortcuts only hard work.

    /lecture
  • jksl
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    jksl polycounter lvl 4
    So this looks to me like one of Ryan Kingslein's sculpts? (it's more obvious in the video)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JhBsp1tGGU

    I haven't bought anything from ZBrushWorkshops but I'm assuming you get a copy of the model.

    If the model is actually being used for an internship somewhere I suggest you definitely come clean as soon as possible. Stealing art will cause an uproar here but if this was used in a game the company is breaking all kinds of laws by using it.. You can probably be held responsible and sued for damages so you should make every effort to make them aware of the situation.

    As for stealing other peoples work, don't do it. Not only is it potentially harming someone else but how do you think you will ever improve? Why even ask for critique for something you didn't make, such a huge waste of time for you and people trying to help.

    Post stuff you actually made and people will try to help, everyone starts from somewhere and everyone understands that. I guarantee if you keep working hard you will improve, there are no shortcuts only hard work.

    /lecture

    faceless accusation actually cause a bigger problem . . . i can definitely see similiarties but i've never heard of ryan kingslon before my mesh had none of the other things that really struck me for similiar .. honestly i'd very much like you to try and find this model and download it prove me wrong i'll be waiting.
  • WarrenM
    Less arguing and posturing, more arting.
  • crazyfool
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    crazyfool polycounter lvl 13
    ryankingslien.jpg

    So I just put the disc in and this is Ryan Kingsliens final topology on level 1. I can whap a smooth preview on if you really want to compare but you can see the poles and topology is exactly the same. I used to study this book on the train all the time so its instantly recogniseable.

    zbrush-studio-projects-realistic-game-characters-ryan-kingslien-paperback-cover-art.jpg
    [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/047087256X/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=154F8CNVYRVNQBS2THZT&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455344027&pf_rd_i=468294"]link to book[/ame]

    use it as ref please, but dont flat out steal it please, you are better than that :)

    the book is a really good read to, so would recommend if people havent read it.
  • tayuya64
    well that escalated quickly lol xD
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    Yeah, your posts throw up some red flags for me. Typically if someone is a competent artist it transfers over to zbrush/mudbox - even skilled illustrators trying out zbrush for the first time can pull off decent work because anatomical knowledge carries over.

    Just be honest and post your own work and you'll get honest feedback in return. If you want blind praise and pats on the back, stick to Deviantart.
  • Rhinokey
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    Rhinokey polycounter lvl 18
    i don't know they are similar, but one is grey with green lines, while the one you posted is pink with grey lines, i'm pretty sure OP is correct this is all his own work.
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