Edit: I got an email from Mark at Marmoset - he solved the problem! It was caused by overlapping UVs. Having no intentions of texturing this (for now anyway), UVs went completely over my head as a possible culprit. Thanks for the help! (:
Seems to be a bug that the exported image background's colour (when using a solid colour for the background rather than the sky) is off slightly. 282828 becomes 272727 on export. 060606 becomes 050505. e6e6e6 becomes e6e6e5... and yes, I remembered to disable camera grain (this time). Mid range values don't seem to change. Tested with a blank scene / no camera grain or post effects / photoshop.
Seems to be a bug that the exported image background's colour (when using a solid colour for the background rather than the sky) is off slightly. 282828 becomes 272727 on export. 060606 becomes 050505. e6e6e6 becomes e6e6e5... and yes, I remembered to disable camera grain (this time). Mid range values don't seem to change. Tested with a blank scene / no camera grain or post effects / photoshop.
Interesting, I'll take a look and see if I can reproduce this. Do you have any other post effects active like bloom, exposure/contrast adjustments, curves, etc?
Nope. Blank scene. If you can't reproduce it then perhaps something is happening when the image is loaded into PS? I wouldn't think so though. Also using PNG w/ 16x sampling, no transparency.
edit: Tested this by saving out 282828 from paint as a png and loading it into photoshop, which worked (showed 282828, not 272727, as TB2 does). So it's not PS. TB2 only exports some values incorrectly though so there must be some strange maths happening somewhere. If you alt+printscreen a scene the colour transfers fine but not if you F9 (Capture>image to clipboard), so it must be something to do with TB2's export.
Also noticed that if, in TB2, you enter a colour such as 282828 then click in either the HSV (or between HSV and RGB) input fields the value sometimes changes without you entering any data. Intended? Not sure how HSV colour works so it could be some conversion thing, but I thought I'd mention it.
Nope. Blank scene. If you can't reproduce it then perhaps something is happening when the image is loaded into PS? I wouldn't think so though. Also using PNG w/ 16x sampling, no transparency.
edit: Tested this by saving out 282828 from paint as a png and loading it into photoshop, which worked (showed 282828, not 272727, as TB2 does). So it's not PS. TB2 only exports some values incorrectly though so there must be some strange maths happening somewhere. If you alt+printscreen a scene the colour transfers fine but not if you F9 (Capture>image to clipboard), so it must be something to do with TB2's export.
I'm seeing some slight weirdness here, where sometimes the color is off, but the margin of error seems to be one digital (eg, red: 89 instead of red: 90). Oddly, its not always the same value if you capture multiple times.
I asked about this and it seems to be a precision issue, we store the values with much higher range (linear floating point) so it has to convert/round down for the actual value. I've logged this as a bug.
Also noticed that if, in TB2, you enter a colour such as 282828 then click in either the HSV (or between HSV and RGB) input fields the value sometimes changes without you entering any data. Intended? Not sure how HSV colour works so it could be some conversion thing, but I thought I'd mention it.
I'm not seeing this one here. After you've entered the last numeric, you need to click on something or press enter for it to update. So if you're entering the last numeric and then clicking the HSV value directly after that, the value will update, but that's not a bug, you're simply confirming input and its showing you the resulting value.
If you're seeing something different than that, let me know, thanks!
Where can I get a list of keyboard shortcuts? Also is there a shortcut to pause the animation turntable?
Thanks!
Hello, unfortunately we do not have a shortcut key to pause/play turntable preview, but that is a good idea. We do not have an organized list of available keyboard shortcuts at this time but you can check the top menu, all functions up there which have a keyboard shortcut have the shortcut listed.
I asked about this and it seems to be a precision issue, we store the values with much higher range (linear floating point) so it has to convert/round down for the actual value. I've logged this as a bug.
Alright, awesome. Thought I was going crazy for awhile.
What programs would you recommend for building materials for TB2?
Oh yeah, sorry for skipping your question.
Personally I do my texturing with Photoshop, using Quixel's dDo quite a bit. Though a lot of people like Substance Designer/Painter as well. Really its just a matter of what you're most comfortable with.
Am I retarded or is there no way to tile seamless textures inside Marmoset?
The quixel megascans that come with TB2 tile so it would seem it's the former.
But if you're seeing your maps tile in photoshop (filter>other>offset) but not in TB2 then I guess something weird is happening. If by some slim chance you're using Zbrush's 2.5d canvas, don't press 'bake' for the 2.5d layers; that one has caught me up before.
I don't think he means whether the texture is tileable but if the shader allows for tiled textures, similar to what you do with the detail normal maps so the texture repeats an exact number of times.
And I don't think you can, Brygelsmack. It seems like a limitation with the shader. It's something I'd been trying to do myself too but I think it'd require a custom shader.
Ah right. I think it was mentioned awhile back that a slider for tiling would be considered, but if so that was awhile ago now. I don't think too many people use TB2 for environments, especially those with tileable textures, so I wouldn't assume it's a high priority. In the mean time you can always scale the UV's, but obviously that's not super convenient.
I've been wanting to come up with some kind of global material parameters for a while, and tiling was one of the things on that list.
Am i correct in thinking that it wouldn't make much sense to have one input (ie: diffuse) tile while the other inputs didn't? What i mean by this, is that rather than adding a slider to each input for tiling, would it be easier/better to just have one global slider that tiles all input maps equally, with the exception of detail normals?
Correct! The only instance where it wouldn't make sense to have it tile globally would be if the shader also allowed masking.
Personally, being able to tile things without being able to mask out areas and have multiple diffuse, normal, etc... inputs within the same shader would be mostly useless for me as I'd only use this to render terrains.
I don't think he means whether the texture is tileable but if the shader allows for tiled textures, similar to what you do with the detail normal maps so the texture repeats an exact number of times.
And I don't think you can, Brygelsmack. It seems like a limitation with the shader. It's something I'd been trying to do myself too but I think it'd require a custom shader.
Am i correct in thinking that it wouldn't make much sense to have one input (ie: diffuse) tile while the other inputs didn't? What i mean by this, is that rather than adding a slider to each input for tiling, would it be easier/better to just have one global slider that tiles all input maps equally, with the exception of detail normals?
Yeah, that makes sense to me, sounds like that would be really useful. Tiling your textures in-engine is a pretty common thing (like for larger walls, etc), so I feel like it would be a welcomed feature in Marmoset.
Hi Joe, I've downloaded the latest version and existing lights I've set up in old scenes are now causing weird large reflections. Is there anyway to set old point lights back to the way they were previous to integration of area lights? Don't really want to relight my scene at this point. Changing the width to be zero kind of makes them look the same, but not really. Or if there is a way to sync back to an old version of marmoset that would be fine too. Just need to capture a render from an old scene.
Hey guys, this might sound like a silly question (I don't know much about PBR), but if I get Toolbag 2 will it work with the standard diffuse, gloss and spec maps. I mainly ask because I've read that albedo maps don't contain AO, so I was wondering how a diffuse map (with AO) would affect things. Can I just plug it into the albedo slot? The same with the gloss(invert) and spec?
Also, I have read the FAQs on page one :P I'm still unsure whether I'll need to tweak anything beforehand.
The reason for trying to remove ambient lighting information from your diffuse/albedo with a PBR system is because you could/should be controlling them elsewhere. yes, you can just plug your old diffuse map into the current albedo slot and it should work, but bear in mind that our IBL system includes ambient light which will add onto your diffuse.
Ideally you should keep your AO map separate so you can put it into the correct slot in Toolbag, which will then mask the ambient light off from your diffuse.
I have trouble getting Marmoset 2 license transfered to my new PC. I put my email in a couple times already but got no email sent my way in return. Sent an email to support aswell with no answer yet. I guess you guys are being busy with holidays but would be nice if someone looked into it when you're back to work
Hi guys, I'm not sure if the answer to my question is possible but here goes. Is it possible to render out a turntable of a car in marmoset with an emissive map acting as headlights and police lights to flash? If not, how can I make that happen using a different software and or method?
I have trouble getting Marmoset 2 license transfered to my new PC. I put my email in a couple times already but got no email sent my way in return. Sent an email to support aswell with no answer yet. I guess you guys are being busy with holidays but would be nice if someone looked into it when you're back to work
Sorry about that, yes our support staff has limited hours over the holidays here. Unfortunately I don't have access to the licencing info myself, however, please make sure to check your spam folder, it may have been flagged by your email client as spam.
Hi guys, I'm not sure if the answer to my question is possible but here goes. Is it possible to render out a turntable of a car in marmoset with an emissive map acting as headlights and police lights to flash? If not, how can I make that happen using a different software and or method?
Currently there is no way in Toolbag to set up flashing or animating textures. One thing you could do is render out a sequence with the lights on and another matching sequence with the lights off, and then layer them in Adobe Premiere or similar and set up keyframes to toggle between the two layers. I'm not sure how good this will look but it may work.
Sorry about that, yes our support staff has limited hours over the holidays here. Unfortunately I don't have access to the licencing info myself, however, please make sure to check your spam folder, it may have been flagged by your email client as spam.
Someone took care of it and everything is working now I was told it's a known issue that you have with .de emails.
Tbh, I can't see any translucency on the video. It is just a really good hand painted diffuse texture with a simple specular. If you look closely you can see that the brighter ends don't change as the block rotates. So it might be enough to paint something similar.
hmmm - I think you´re right - the brighter ends do not change in color... Maybe I was too exited about finding some reference for the fx I am going for, hehehe.
But at the outer (right) side, there is a strong reflexion going on - how is that?
Only done by harsh-rim light?
Now, I will have a look (again) at the skin-shader - guess I have to try harder, than before.
Flick the light in the scene on to see the effect of scattering.
brief summary of my thoughts on the material:
With thick ice, transmission goes blue because water is slightly blue in tint, however there is more to it than that. The reason it's so obvious in these examples is because there is a high concentration of air in the water, microscopic bubbles that cause light to scatter rather than pass straight through.
The thicker the section of ice is, the more likely you are to see blue, hence the edges of the iceburg in your reference are whiter because they're thinner, light doesn't have a chance to scatter through the blue spectrum.
Also, any ice that's been crumbled, cracked, or is generally not smooth, is less likely to scatter the light to blue. And any areas where there is snow will of course show white instead.
So what's going on in my scene? It's pretty simple actually, i wanted to show a general process rather than make a perfect iceberg. I ran the normalmap and mesh through Knald to generate a quick AO map with the contrast cranked to the max, this gave me a really cool effect that i could use to drive the transmission and scattering of light.
By inverting the AO map i'm saying that any exposed parts of the ice need to scatter light less, i also used the inverted AO map for a quick dirty gloss map, since as i mentioned above, areas which are whiter are likely to be rougher too (especially in the case of snow).
I've given the material a flat white albedo, there's no real need to create a unique albedo map in this particular instance, however i would probably do so for an actual in-game asset. The scatter and transmission colours are fairly similar with the scatter colour being a slightly greener hue. I wanted it to look like the light gets bluer the further through the ice it travels.
These are the general principals i would follow for ice, and sure your mileage may vary and you'll want to play with the colours of transmission and such. But this should be a good enough jumping off point for your material.
I stopped for now and take a look at your scene.
I ended up with something not "that" realistic - but more stylized and dramatic, hehehe (ok, I went a bit crazy on this one)
In terms of roughness/glossiness spec map, I think I handpaint some scratches and "snow" and for the translucy map, I will try some "gradient-texture-bakes", so that there will be bottom to top - or better - a good "inner-outer" gradient.
Adding some Albedo is optional for just doing renders in TB2, I think.
Not really satisfied with the thickness-bake, I did.
Thanks for the kind words I am fairly new to 3D stuff and such, but I keep learning and trying things out...
And for seeing this in a full scene - I take part in the "Throne Room" challenge (well I will not going for competition or having any chances - it is just for a learning purpose). In my throne room scene will be plenty of ice, hehehe
Sorry if this has probably been asked before, is there some way to revert to legacy diff/spec/gloss in Marmoset? Do I just set the sky brightness to 0/turn off?
I wonder, if it is possible to work with a multi material object in TB2?
I setup a single, continous mesh (.obj format), that has got 4 different "Material IDs" assigned to specific (polygon-) parts of it.
Now I thought I could setup 4 different "Toolbag materials", then drag&drop them onto specific parts of the mesh - but it is not working... TB allways put that material/shaders on the whole mesh, it does not "see" the different sections, seperated by material-ID(names).
Did I something wrong here or missing an option inside TB2?
Or is this just not possible, the way I wanted to do it? Maybe I must seperate the single mesh into different chunks by another methode, than material-IDs?
We will be adding material id support in version 2.07, the next update. Unfortunately for now you have to split each material section into a different mesh chunk/object to apply multiple materials.
Replies
Edit: I got an email from Mark at Marmoset - he solved the problem! It was caused by overlapping UVs. Having no intentions of texturing this (for now anyway), UVs went completely over my head as a possible culprit. Thanks for the help! (:
Interesting, I'll take a look and see if I can reproduce this. Do you have any other post effects active like bloom, exposure/contrast adjustments, curves, etc?
edit: Tested this by saving out 282828 from paint as a png and loading it into photoshop, which worked (showed 282828, not 272727, as TB2 does). So it's not PS. TB2 only exports some values incorrectly though so there must be some strange maths happening somewhere. If you alt+printscreen a scene the colour transfers fine but not if you F9 (Capture>image to clipboard), so it must be something to do with TB2's export.
Also noticed that if, in TB2, you enter a colour such as 282828 then click in either the HSV (or between HSV and RGB) input fields the value sometimes changes without you entering any data. Intended? Not sure how HSV colour works so it could be some conversion thing, but I thought I'd mention it.
Thanks!
I'm seeing some slight weirdness here, where sometimes the color is off, but the margin of error seems to be one digital (eg, red: 89 instead of red: 90). Oddly, its not always the same value if you capture multiple times.
I asked about this and it seems to be a precision issue, we store the values with much higher range (linear floating point) so it has to convert/round down for the actual value. I've logged this as a bug.
I'm not seeing this one here. After you've entered the last numeric, you need to click on something or press enter for it to update. So if you're entering the last numeric and then clicking the HSV value directly after that, the value will update, but that's not a bug, you're simply confirming input and its showing you the resulting value.
If you're seeing something different than that, let me know, thanks!
Hello, unfortunately we do not have a shortcut key to pause/play turntable preview, but that is a good idea. We do not have an organized list of available keyboard shortcuts at this time but you can check the top menu, all functions up there which have a keyboard shortcut have the shortcut listed.
Thanks
Pretty sure this is different. Exact steps:
- enter 282828
- press enter (R,G,B updates to 40,40,40 while H,S update to 0 and V to 16%
- Click between the various fields (ex, click the H value of 0 then the S value of 0)
- RGB colour changes to #292929 (41,41,41). HSV remains 0,0,16 in this case.
If that's not clear I can make a short video and upload it when I get proper internet again.Oh yeah, sorry for skipping your question.
Personally I do my texturing with Photoshop, using Quixel's dDo quite a bit. Though a lot of people like Substance Designer/Painter as well. Really its just a matter of what you're most comfortable with.
But if you're seeing your maps tile in photoshop (filter>other>offset) but not in TB2 then I guess something weird is happening. If by some slim chance you're using Zbrush's 2.5d canvas, don't press 'bake' for the 2.5d layers; that one has caught me up before.
And I don't think you can, Brygelsmack. It seems like a limitation with the shader. It's something I'd been trying to do myself too but I think it'd require a custom shader.
Am i correct in thinking that it wouldn't make much sense to have one input (ie: diffuse) tile while the other inputs didn't? What i mean by this, is that rather than adding a slider to each input for tiling, would it be easier/better to just have one global slider that tiles all input maps equally, with the exception of detail normals?
Personally, being able to tile things without being able to mask out areas and have multiple diffuse, normal, etc... inputs within the same shader would be mostly useless for me as I'd only use this to render terrains.
Yeah, that makes sense to me, sounds like that would be really useful. Tiling your textures in-engine is a pretty common thing (like for larger walls, etc), so I feel like it would be a welcomed feature in Marmoset.
There is no way to get the lights to work exactly as they did in 2.05, but setting the light size to zero should give you very similar results.
If that is not sufficient for you, you can uninstall and grab the 2.05 installer here: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mset/download/release/toolbag_install_205.exe
Also, I have read the FAQs on page one :P I'm still unsure whether I'll need to tweak anything beforehand.
The reason for trying to remove ambient lighting information from your diffuse/albedo with a PBR system is because you could/should be controlling them elsewhere. yes, you can just plug your old diffuse map into the current albedo slot and it should work, but bear in mind that our IBL system includes ambient light which will add onto your diffuse.
Ideally you should keep your AO map separate so you can put it into the correct slot in Toolbag, which will then mask the ambient light off from your diffuse.
Well, I got it and had a tinker around. Having tried both methods I see exactly what you mean.
Sorry about that, yes our support staff has limited hours over the holidays here. Unfortunately I don't have access to the licencing info myself, however, please make sure to check your spam folder, it may have been flagged by your email client as spam.
Currently there is no way in Toolbag to set up flashing or animating textures. One thing you could do is render out a sequence with the lights on and another matching sequence with the lights off, and then layer them in Adobe Premiere or similar and set up keyframes to toggle between the two layers. I'm not sure how good this will look but it may work.
Someone took care of it and everything is working now
I like to see a tutorial (or maybe get some guidance here) on how to do a translucent iceblock, like this one over here:
(Or see image for reference)
I tried with skin-shader/thickness map and so on - but did not get it...
Seems, like I need some more hints, than only references
Cheers!
Tbh, I can't see any translucency on the video. It is just a really good hand painted diffuse texture with a simple specular. If you look closely you can see that the brighter ends don't change as the block rotates. So it might be enough to paint something similar.
Btw here is the official documentation on the subsurface scattering. The candle part might be suitable for this thing. Hope it helps.
http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/skin-shader
hmmm - I think you´re right - the brighter ends do not change in color... Maybe I was too exited about finding some reference for the fx I am going for, hehehe.
But at the outer (right) side, there is a strong reflexion going on - how is that?
Only done by harsh-rim light?
Now, I will have a look (again) at the skin-shader - guess I have to try harder, than before.
kind regards
I am ooo right now, will take about 5 hrs from now, until I can do so.
Meanwhile, you may just PM me the email-adress, where the stuff goes to...
(Or I PM you a drop box link, if I am quicker, later on)
Would be awesome to have something to compare results/technique/etc.
(Sure I will have a try on this, myself, too!)
Cheers
I think I am on the way, but not "there" with my render
Here's my toolbag scene and the textures used:
http://crazyferretstudios.com/public/rocktest.zip
Flick the light in the scene on to see the effect of scattering.
brief summary of my thoughts on the material:
With thick ice, transmission goes blue because water is slightly blue in tint, however there is more to it than that. The reason it's so obvious in these examples is because there is a high concentration of air in the water, microscopic bubbles that cause light to scatter rather than pass straight through.
The thicker the section of ice is, the more likely you are to see blue, hence the edges of the iceburg in your reference are whiter because they're thinner, light doesn't have a chance to scatter through the blue spectrum.
Also, any ice that's been crumbled, cracked, or is generally not smooth, is less likely to scatter the light to blue. And any areas where there is snow will of course show white instead.
So what's going on in my scene? It's pretty simple actually, i wanted to show a general process rather than make a perfect iceberg. I ran the normalmap and mesh through Knald to generate a quick AO map with the contrast cranked to the max, this gave me a really cool effect that i could use to drive the transmission and scattering of light.
By inverting the AO map i'm saying that any exposed parts of the ice need to scatter light less, i also used the inverted AO map for a quick dirty gloss map, since as i mentioned above, areas which are whiter are likely to be rougher too (especially in the case of snow).
I've given the material a flat white albedo, there's no real need to create a unique albedo map in this particular instance, however i would probably do so for an actual in-game asset. The scatter and transmission colours are fairly similar with the scatter colour being a slightly greener hue. I wanted it to look like the light gets bluer the further through the ice it travels.
These are the general principals i would follow for ice, and sure your mileage may vary and you'll want to play with the colours of transmission and such. But this should be a good enough jumping off point for your material.
I stopped for now and take a look at your scene.
I ended up with something not "that" realistic - but more stylized and dramatic, hehehe (ok, I went a bit crazy on this one)
In terms of roughness/glossiness spec map, I think I handpaint some scratches and "snow" and for the translucy map, I will try some "gradient-texture-bakes", so that there will be bottom to top - or better - a good "inner-outer" gradient.
Adding some Albedo is optional for just doing renders in TB2, I think.
Not really satisfied with the thickness-bake, I did.
Thanks for your support!
Good fun!
Can not wait to make a "now for real" model/textures
And for seeing this in a full scene - I take part in the "Throne Room" challenge (well I will not going for competition or having any chances - it is just for a learning purpose). In my throne room scene will be plenty of ice, hehehe
I wonder, if it is possible to work with a multi material object in TB2?
I setup a single, continous mesh (.obj format), that has got 4 different "Material IDs" assigned to specific (polygon-) parts of it.
Now I thought I could setup 4 different "Toolbag materials", then drag&drop them onto specific parts of the mesh - but it is not working... TB allways put that material/shaders on the whole mesh, it does not "see" the different sections, seperated by material-ID(names).
Did I something wrong here or missing an option inside TB2?
Or is this just not possible, the way I wanted to do it? Maybe I must seperate the single mesh into different chunks by another methode, than material-IDs?
Cheers
We will be adding material id support in version 2.07, the next update. Unfortunately for now you have to split each material section into a different mesh chunk/object to apply multiple materials.
thanks for reply - now, will the 2.07 be ready for GDC or after this event took place? Can you tell? Would be a cool thing, to have it soon.
Ok, for now I have to split the mesh "per material" - would it be ok to put all chunks into one group ?
(sorry, no acces to TB2 atm)
Cheers!