Hmmm one thing I've been wondering about is, maybe it sounds ridiculous, but it goes like this:
I currently live in a country that doesn't have US tax treaty. If I were to move to a country that does have a treaty (in this example, Norway), I get EIN or TIN, pay Norway it's taxes and whatnot, would I be eligible to get stay permit and register myself an address up there?
MMF : I'd say its the other way around. *First*, you obtain a stay permit/work visa/citizenship that allows you to settle and/or work in a given country, and *then* you pay the relevant taxes. (Unless you are talking about moving within Europeans countries with no limitation on circulation across their borders, but I doubt this is the case, right ?)
KCJJ : I can only talk about my own case. I am lucky enough to be a citizen of a country which has a tax treaty with the US. Therefore, once all my paperwork was ready (getting the EIN number up and running, filling up the documents on Steam, and so on), I was then able to receive the full payments from Valve. I will only have to pay taxes in France, instead of having to pay taxes in France + getting a 30% taken from the Valve payments.
There's no US tax treaty over here either, so I just have to pay the full 30% tax.
From what I understood when I was first going through that process if there's no tax treaty whether you have an EIN or TIN or whatnot it won't make a difference. I might be wrong though.
MMF : I'd say its the other way around. *First*, you obtain a stay permit/work visa/citizenship that allows you to settle and/or work in a given country, and *then* you pay the relevant taxes. (Unless you are talking about moving within Europeans countries with no limitation on circulation across their borders, but I doubt this is the case, right ?)
I do have EU citizenship and passport, so I guess that falls under moving within EU countries? :ooo
I'm just exploring the possibilities tho. So, thank you for your answer!
KArkeng, it's like this
if you live in a country that has double tax treaty with US and you have an EIN, you will receive all the money, but then you will have to check to see how much tax you have to pay to your country of stay.
if your country doesn't have any tax treaty, valve keeps 30% of US sales and gives the rest to you, then again you have to see how much you have to pay tax in your side as well
Moral of story: You have always to pay tax, unless your country has oil. then you you don't have to pay tax at all (jk)
Then I guess you will have to pay tax to Norway, base on their rules.
Also this is what valve once told me (I was moving to another country during my payment so I contacted them)
Please note that withholding is only taken on US sales, so the amount withheld is not calculated as 30% of the total.
I know I'd have to pay Norway its taxes, I was wondering if I could have some possibility of acquiring stay permit easier. But like pior said, and my sister few minutes ago stated, I'd have to first get their Norwegian tax payer number first, but she's not completely sure because I don't have any sort of contract with this workshop thing .
KArkeng, it's like this
if you live in a country that has double tax treaty with US and you have an EIN, you will receive all the money, but then you will have to check to see how much tax you have to pay to your country of stay.
if your country doesn't have any tax treaty, valve keeps 30% of US sales and gives the rest to you, then again you have to see how much you have to pay tax in your side as well
Moral of story: You have always to pay tax, unless your country has oil. then you you don't have to pay tax at all (jk)
Oil? Does it mean that I have to not pay taxes in germany? Can someone from germany answer me that? Would be awesome.
oil was a joke
in Germany if you have EIN you will receive the full amount. 100%
Then there is this rule, if you earn up to a certain amount in a year (11k euro or 18k euro in a year (I'm not sure)) you won't have to pay anything, however if you make more than that, based on how much you have earned, you will have to pay some percent of the whole amount. you better go to Finanzamt and ask them how it works. or just going to a tax lawyer.
Well since my country doesn't have any tax treaty with US, so for example if my item set price was 10 USD , so when people buys it , i will only get 7 USD and 3 USD goes to valve? (of course not including the tax i need to pay in my country)
- 75% of that goes to Valve. That's the "Valve cut". For each copy of your item sold, Valve earns 7.5USD.
- If your country has a tax treaty, you receive 25% = 2.5USD for each item sold.
- If your country does not have a tax treaty, you receive 25*((100-30)%)=17.5%=1.75USD, and Valve gives 0.75USD to the US tax services.
- And then at the end of the year, you also have to pay taxes.
(please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above)
Now of course this is a simplification, since in practice its a little bit more complicated than that based on what Reza pointed out. And then there is also the share coming from the Steam market transactions. But you get the idea.
- 75% of that goes to Valve. That's the "Valve cut". For each copy of your item sold, Valve earns 7.5USD.
- If your country has a tax treaty, you receive 25% = 2.5USD for each item sold.
- If your country does not have a tax treaty, you receive 25*((100-30)%)=17.5%=1.75USD, and Valve gives 0.75USD to the US tax services.
- And then at the end of the year, you also have to pay taxes.
(please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above)
From what I've understood, "If your country does not have a tax treaty", there will 2 different situation:
1. You will receive 2.5$, whenever a user from outside of US buys your item.
2. You will receive 1.75$, when someone from US buys your item.
wut? it seem like i get to earn so less and the -30% tax and the end of the year tax and how much % is it? . Oh my, i felt like i earn so little , i read this article long time ago before i start doing it and i didn't know there will be so many taxes to pay
wait so basically , if US people buys my item there it will charge 30% tax? if a china guy or other country buys my item , they wont charge me 30% tax?
KCJJ, the article is still true though ! Even though at best we only get 2.5USD out of a 10USD item, the number of people who love and buy dota2 items and TF2 hats makes it worth it. It's not easy, but it is possible to make some income from it.
Reza : indeed, this seems like it is the way it works, based on the official statement quoted earlier. It's all quite complicated, that's for sure
When an item is accepted you get an automated email (one per item even for a full set), telling you that your item will be put on the marketplace.
And yup as a matter of fact I personally keep copies of all these emails and use them as proof when my local tax services ask for some kind of receipt or contract. I also keep a copy of the Steam Workshop user agreement.
Now I have only been doing this for a year, hence I do not know yet how everything will come together at the end of the coming fiscal year. But I will without a doubt share the information here once I'll know more
On a side note : maybe this thread might need to be renamed to something more relevant to its actual contents ?
I've heard that there might be a new "sales tracking tool" currently in beta, but I don't know what it is and I don't have access to it. You are indeed correct - at the moment, there is no way to know the sales numbers of an item
Regarding the 3 spirits : I only worked on the Earth design. Its modeling and the design and modeling of Ember and Storm were done by the very talented Red Moon guys and Boonta
I've heard that there might be a new "sales tracking tool" currently in beta, but I don't know what it is and I don't have access to it. You are indeed correct - at the moment, there is no way to know the sales numbers of an item
They've been saying that for years. As far as I'm concerned, I'll believe that when I see it. Although, it's a pretty laughable joke that it's taking as long as it is when smaller companies with limited resources have zero problems creating their own tools. At this point, I have to wonder if they are honestly working on it, or theyre hiding numbers they dont want to go public.
How ? The tool itself is not really the problem, the thing that is required is having access to the numbers, and it goes without saying that this information is to be kept confidential for each artist. So nope, unfortunately we cannot make our own ...
What I got from them ( when handling with some revenue issues on tournament and stufs ) , is that they dont really get all the info at the same time east/west figures and such ; I think its a deeper problem with the tool , beside just the coding of it .
Even tho I agree with the lack of comunication on behalf of valve , personaly I dont belive its a scheme , but thats just me
I know I'd have to pay Norway its taxes, I was wondering if I could have some possibility of acquiring stay permit easier. But like pior said, and my sister few minutes ago stated, I'd have to first get their Norwegian tax payer number first, but she's not completely sure because I don't have any sort of contract with this workshop thing .
I'm Norwegian so if you need any help let me know. Afaik all you need is a job or job offer to get work permit. In the end all we want is your tax money, so if you have a taxable income you will get the help you need to get you started.
hey guys valve emailed me back yesterday. Here some Q and A i would like to share
1)Q: As from the image at the attachment , withholding tax rate is 30% , is it means that i need to pay 30% tax from my sales . For example , if i made 1000 USD, it means that i only get to have 700 USD? and where does the 30% money goes to or for what use?
A: The withholding tax is based on US sales, so it wouldn’t be 30% of your total sales (as in your example) unless all sales were made to US customers. The money goes to the IRS.
Well Reza was right in this part
2) Q: What is Foreign Tax Identification Number (TIN) means and for what use? If i have a TIN would it reduce the 30% or something else?
A: There is not a tax treaty between the US and Malaysia, so a tax id will not reduce the withholding that you are subject to.
I'm Norwegian so if you need any help let me know. Afaik all you need is a job or job offer to get work permit. In the end all we want is your tax money, so if you have a taxable income you will get the help you need to get you started.
So guys........W8-BEN is filled in for like 1-2 Weeks now...and still no sign of live.
What to do now? Deadline is today and thus nothing will be in the workshop then cos it takes soooo long. :-(
Should I contact the support or chill out and drink tea?
Hey guys, I have a question about the SS4. You are supposed to fill in 9a as a "sole proprietor," right? It asks for a SSN which I don't have. What did you guys outside of the US fill in for that?
If you guys live in the UK, you can use your National Insurance Number as your TIN/ITIN/whatever-its-called which is apparently fine (i used my NIN and it gave me 0% withholding tax rate)
If you guys live in the UK, you can use your National Insurance Number as your TIN/ITIN/whatever-its-called which is apparently fine (i used my NIN and it gave me 0% withholding tax rate)
Oh wow - really? I'm in the UK and ended up applying for an EIN, but just recently got a tax form detailing the amount of tax witheld in the US for the year- kind of unexpected as I'd just assumed I'd pay all my taxes to the UK HMRC.
I wonder if we can change our tax details with Valve - has anybody done that?
and where does the 30% money goes to or for what use?
Well, mostly it goes to the military industrial complex. USA spends more money on military than any other country on earth. Then there are corporate subsidies.
little tiny bits of that will then be put into infrastructure, and maybe a tiny bit goes to help the poor and downtrodden.
Oh wow - really? I'm in the UK and ended up applying for an EIN, but just recently got a tax form detailing the amount of tax witheld in the US for the year- kind of unexpected as I'd just assumed I'd pay all my taxes to the UK HMRC.
I wonder if we can change our tax details with Valve - has anybody done that?
you can always update your tax details i thought? and yea it seems like our NIN actually has a use o.O just go to your profile and then add /workshoppaymentinfo at the end to get to the page. i dont remember what you click to get to it but its there
Hey guys, I have a question about the SS4. You are supposed to fill in 9a as a "sole proprietor," right? It asks for a SSN which I don't have. What did you guys outside of the US fill in for that?
Thanks a bunch!
Bumping this, it kinda got lost in the shuffle. :poly121:
Replies
I currently live in a country that doesn't have US tax treaty. If I were to move to a country that does have a treaty (in this example, Norway), I get EIN or TIN, pay Norway it's taxes and whatnot, would I be eligible to get stay permit and register myself an address up there?
KCJJ : I can only talk about my own case. I am lucky enough to be a citizen of a country which has a tax treaty with the US. Therefore, once all my paperwork was ready (getting the EIN number up and running, filling up the documents on Steam, and so on), I was then able to receive the full payments from Valve. I will only have to pay taxes in France, instead of having to pay taxes in France + getting a 30% taken from the Valve payments.
From what I understood when I was first going through that process if there's no tax treaty whether you have an EIN or TIN or whatnot it won't make a difference. I might be wrong though.
I do have EU citizenship and passport, so I guess that falls under moving within EU countries? :ooo
I'm just exploring the possibilities tho. So, thank you for your answer!
if you live in a country that has double tax treaty with US and you have an EIN, you will receive all the money, but then you will have to check to see how much tax you have to pay to your country of stay.
if your country doesn't have any tax treaty, valve keeps 30% of US sales and gives the rest to you, then again you have to see how much you have to pay tax in your side as well
Moral of story: You have always to pay tax, unless your country has oil. then you you don't have to pay tax at all
Then I guess you will have to pay tax to Norway, base on their rules.
Also this is what valve once told me (I was moving to another country during my payment so I contacted them):
Please note that withholding is only taken on US sales, so the amount withheld is not calculated as 30% of the total.
I know I'd have to pay Norway its taxes, I was wondering if I could have some possibility of acquiring stay permit easier. But like pior said, and my sister few minutes ago stated, I'd have to first get their Norwegian tax payer number first, but she's not completely sure because I don't have any sort of contract with this workshop thing
Oil? Does it mean that I have to not pay taxes in germany? Can someone from germany answer me that? Would be awesome.
in Germany if you have EIN you will receive the full amount. 100%
Then there is this rule, if you earn up to a certain amount in a year (11k euro or 18k euro in a year (I'm not sure)) you won't have to pay anything, however if you make more than that, based on how much you have earned, you will have to pay some percent of the whole amount. you better go to Finanzamt and ask them how it works. or just going to a tax lawyer.
Well since my country doesn't have any tax treaty with US, so for example if my item set price was 10 USD , so when people buys it , i will only get 7 USD and 3 USD goes to valve? (of course not including the tax i need to pay in my country)
- 75% of that goes to Valve. That's the "Valve cut". For each copy of your item sold, Valve earns 7.5USD.
- If your country has a tax treaty, you receive 25% = 2.5USD for each item sold.
- If your country does not have a tax treaty, you receive 25*((100-30)%)=17.5%=1.75USD, and Valve gives 0.75USD to the US tax services.
- And then at the end of the year, you also have to pay taxes.
(please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above)
Now of course this is a simplification, since in practice its a little bit more complicated than that based on what Reza pointed out. And then there is also the share coming from the Steam market transactions. But you get the idea.
From what I've understood, "If your country does not have a tax treaty", there will 2 different situation:
1. You will receive 2.5$, whenever a user from outside of US buys your item.
2. You will receive 1.75$, when someone from US buys your item.
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2014/1/16/5316248/on-average-team-fortress-2-and-dota-2-item-creators-made-15000-last
Reza : indeed, this seems like it is the way it works, based on the official statement quoted earlier. It's all quite complicated, that's for sure
And yup as a matter of fact I personally keep copies of all these emails and use them as proof when my local tax services ask for some kind of receipt or contract. I also keep a copy of the Steam Workshop user agreement.
Now I have only been doing this for a year, hence I do not know yet how everything will come together at the end of the coming fiscal year. But I will without a doubt share the information here once I'll know more
On a side note : maybe this thread might need to be renamed to something more relevant to its actual contents ?
Ya haha i think this thread should be renamed haha
Regarding the 3 spirits : I only worked on the Earth design. Its modeling and the design and modeling of Ember and Storm were done by the very talented Red Moon guys and Boonta
They've been saying that for years. As far as I'm concerned, I'll believe that when I see it. Although, it's a pretty laughable joke that it's taking as long as it is when smaller companies with limited resources have zero problems creating their own tools. At this point, I have to wonder if they are honestly working on it, or theyre hiding numbers they dont want to go public.
Even tho I agree with the lack of comunication on behalf of valve , personaly I dont belive its a scheme , but thats just me
I'm Norwegian so if you need any help let me know. Afaik all you need is a job or job offer to get work permit. In the end all we want is your tax money, so if you have a taxable income you will get the help you need to get you started.
http://www.udi.no/en/want-to-apply/work-immigration/?c=bih
https://www.nav.no/workinnorway/;jsessionid=D788A0EB22703211CA2035BEF9A90C75
https://www.nav.no/en/Home
1)Q: As from the image at the attachment , withholding tax rate is 30% , is it means that i need to pay 30% tax from my sales . For example , if i made 1000 USD, it means that i only get to have 700 USD? and where does the 30% money goes to or for what use?
A: The withholding tax is based on US sales, so it wouldn’t be 30% of your total sales (as in your example) unless all sales were made to US customers. The money goes to the IRS.
Well Reza was right in this part
2) Q: What is Foreign Tax Identification Number (TIN) means and for what use? If i have a TIN would it reduce the 30% or something else?
A: There is not a tax treaty between the US and Malaysia, so a tax id will not reduce the withholding that you are subject to.
Tusen Takk!
Figured it's all about them taxes :P But I honestly wouldn't mind if I could stay up there
What to do now? Deadline is today and thus nothing will be in the workshop then cos it takes soooo long. :-(
Should I contact the support or chill out and drink tea?
Thanks a bunch!
Oh wow - really? I'm in the UK and ended up applying for an EIN, but just recently got a tax form detailing the amount of tax witheld in the US for the year- kind of unexpected as I'd just assumed I'd pay all my taxes to the UK HMRC.
I wonder if we can change our tax details with Valve - has anybody done that?
Well, mostly it goes to the military industrial complex. USA spends more money on military than any other country on earth. Then there are corporate subsidies.
little tiny bits of that will then be put into infrastructure, and maybe a tiny bit goes to help the poor and downtrodden.
But mostly to war.
you can always update your tax details i thought? and yea it seems like our NIN actually has a use o.O just go to your profile and then add /workshoppaymentinfo at the end to get to the page. i dont remember what you click to get to it but its there
Bumping this, it kinda got lost in the shuffle. :poly121: