Cinema 4d anyone?
polycounter lvl 8
I wonder does anyone use Cinema 4d? It looks that they've been really improving polygonal modeling lately. I really like latest videos. I believe cheaper Lite or Prime can be nice alternative to Maya LT and Modo.
Replies
Maya and max are clearly too expensive for indies and freelancers I just don't get why people try modo, maya lt even blender but completely ignore Cinema.
Is it being used in Germany only? I think Crytek was using Cinema at some point.
And the upgrades are $995 from the previous version. It's a wallet pounder.
Then there's the mental aspect of it. You're starting out and want to learn a 3D app. All you peers and friends use Max ... why would you deviate and learn Cinema 4D instead? I mean, you MIGHT, but most people are going to want to learn together and there are vastly more resources and tutorials for Max.
Although I hear Cinema 4D is very nice. As a professional, I'll probably give it a run the next time I have a block of unused vacation time or something.
Cinema 4d Prime priced at $995 with $250 yearly subscription. This is cheaper than modo. And a bit pricier than Maya Lt with no export limit and probably better modeling tools.
Now there is xNormal, but before, how did you manage highpoly to lowpoly bake?
With the newly developed tools, like Marmoset, Quixel Suite, Substance Designer, you don't even need a capable viewport, as you can model in Cinema 4D and then assemble the finished with the help of these tools.
This is in theory, I have to test this myself.
Someone who actually do game art could maybe explain better why is not used today.
And now the price, the Lite version is only available inside After Effects CC, the entry level version (Prime) is $995 on the official MAXON shop, it doesn't have some functions but as long as you are not rendering, who cares, no Sculpt module, this is a problem only if you use its tools even if you are not sculpting (as I do sometimes), the sculpting is not powerful as Zbrush or 3D-Coat. No MoGraph, so no Clone tool (that I use extensively) and finally, no Hair, but who cares.
For example:
Cinema 4D R15 Prime - $995
Substance Designer 4 - $99 (indie license)
3D-Coat V4 - $379
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Total - $1473
This leads to the question, if you are going to use a non Industry Standard tool, why not use Blender and save a lot of money?
Most of advert studios use cinema 4d in their pipeline, its like a standart in modiz industry.
I've looked around and there's not much, I've learned with some basic tutorials showing the tools and the rest from watching other software tutorials, XSI works very similar to Cinema 4D.
Anyway:
Headphones (incomprehensible language)
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA6EBD70F4E669008
(part 5 and 7 can be found on the right)
Self Powering Bulb (3 parts, long)
http://vimeo.com/72300656
Slow videos but really informative
http://vimeo.com/archvis/videos
Old 3D Fluff tutorial series
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Various speed modeling (some are really nice, e.g. Airship; JDownloader 2 is handy to download them)
http://www.youtube.com/user/AwpAntza/videos
Alien Guard series (slightly speed up and unfortunately, blurred to death)
http://vimeo.com/98428282
I found others too, but well, better don't waste your time watching them.
As said above, the exporters are rubbish and they really haven't pushed too far into making things work with games. I've used R12 up to 14, maybe R15 offers some better tools for that side of things.
The slightly native Python integration/Xpresso scripting gives it a great push on the automation tools, but I still stick with Max if I'm under the gun and want something to reliably export to Unity without quirks. Other things missing like Preserve UVs, ring/loop dot selection, and simple edge removal (without removing the actual face) are also reasons I have had trouble fully committing; though this could now be in R15.
is it possible with this plugin:
http://code.vonc.fr/?a=23
To remove an Edge use the Dissolve command (I've assigned it to CTRL+BackSpace).
There's also some other nice stuff.
I don't really think there is a way to preserve UV at the moment, for the animations I don't really know.
If they kept the same release date as the previous version, in a month+ they should release R16, I'm waiting for a proper material node editor, let's wait and see if they address some of these problems.
I am currently in the process for doing some game modeling and texturing tutorials for Maxon (the guys that make C4D) and will let you guys know when I post them.
Cinema 4D is a great tool and constantly evolving. Now having great character tools and full on sculpting has definitely stepped its game up. I agree, the price is a little steep but they have the Maxon Service Agreement which you purchase with the product that lets you get the next version free as long as you keep renewing the MSA yearly. Still, it is pretty steep.
I am currently working on my next game using Cinema 4D and it is a full 3d platformer. I will start a thread and post some work as soon as I feel more comfortable showing it (which will be pretty soon as we just submitted it to Indiecade).
Built in sculpting on mudbox level, bodypaint, everything is so convenient and looks good and feels right.
I hope R16 brings neu UV tools, chances are good, but nobody can tell for sure.
In any case, this is one of the reasons I left it behind and am now using Maya LT. Cinema 4D is a bit overprized for what it actually offers. Bodypaint and UV tools are extremly outdated and cumbersome. Vertex paint... not to be found. Vert/Edge smoothing ... nope. Try creating and exporting 2 UV maps for example. Good luck. FBX is updated only ever so often because it's not their "file format" (I was told) so it's not a priority to them.
So needless to say I am not impressed with this company. Modo and Maya or Maya LT and 3DS Max are much better alternatives and for the most part industry proven (even though Modo has a lot of work to do on the game art front).
Just my 2 cents on that matter.
https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?1861-Tutorial-How-to-proper-export-a-FBX-scene-from-Cinema-4D-to-U4-with-2-UV-channels
I don't like the UV tools too, but I'd like to see if with this: http://code.vonc.fr/?a=56 they get better.
There is a Vertex Painting mode, it's called "Set Weight Tool...", you select all the polygons of your object (or nothing, as it seems that this doesn't influence the area affected by the painting), go to Select an chose Set Weight Tool..., a pop up appears, leave it to 0% and Mode to "Set".
A Vertex Map Tag should appear, double click it to activate the actual painting tool.
It supports multiple Tags (so multiple materials) and works in conjunction with the Vertex Map "Effects" found on the Material Editor.
What did you mean with Vertex/Edge smoothing? Some examples?
For the other stuff is it undeniable that those are major issue for Cinema 4D to exchange assets with other software (I did a search and there are a lot of complains).
Their problems are not only in the realtime area, the lack of a node material editor is a major problem, why the people who do renders are appealed to use their outdated system (try to link and keep updated masks, textures or worst, procedural materials to all the channels that need them) when you have 3ds Max/Maya with the ease of nodes and even V-Ray 3.0? (VRAYforC4D is still 2.55) CmNodes is not a solution as it crashes too much to be used, and renders and updated preview for ALL the cm materials you have every time you change something.
Despite liking it for for modeling, stability and general usage, I'm starting to hit a wall of "the application won't let me do that", probably for me, R16 would be the last chance I'll gave them.
in that case you are hopefully prepared to jump ship again - or upgrade - when the time comes! maya (and max) game-specific or low-end versions have come and gone and generally only stayed around for a few years each.
I was pretty pissed in the past because I though there was no smoothing in cinema and I always used 3DS to apply smoothing groups, then some guy here told me that you can simply export the phong smoothing in FBX and that acts the same. Also you can apply 2 UV tags and then you have 2 UV maps basically
Other question, does anyone know how to insert loops that are more controllable ? I always use the knife tool (loop & edge) and the function to lock the distance dosnt seem to work so I make them all by eye which is what actually upsets me the most in cinema
Depends of what kind of precision you need, there are two ways to do that with the Knife Tool.
1) While in Loop Mode press SHIFT to lock the cut, is it working when you can't move the cut, at this point, you can insert a % value in the Offset box.
2) You want to make a loop cut (or multiple) at n cm from a point/edge; select Plane mode with the correct Plane coordinates and adjust the Offset, Cuts and Spacing.
Offset it's the distance from the point under the cut, use the Point Snapping to get the cut at the right place, Cuts are the numbers of cuts you want, at the distance setted into the Spacing field.
The other way is to select a ring (U~B) or a series of edges manually and do an Edge Cut (M~F).
There's also the Path Mode where you select a series of Faces and the cut will follow what you have selected, in the same way as the Loop cut, by pressing SHIFT, you can input the percentage value you want.
The CTRL and Shift key modifiers make the Edge Cut tool amazing and I never use the knife tool for dividing geometry anymore. Also, the Edge Cut tool allow you to keep a clean mesh flow by cutting multiple edges cleanly at once.
why not watch the cinema 4d r15 preview for sure you'll be interested
For years I tried to convince them that they need to update/fix certain issues in C4D to appeal to the realtime/game artists out there which after all is a big big market. I created 2 games using C4D but ultimately gave up on it due to too many issues with FBX and missing features or outdated parts.
They are far more interested in Motion Graphics (Mograph) and After Effects (and the exchange between C4D and AE) than anything hence the recent announcements from them. Granted, they have the best Mograph tools out there I think. If you're into that, then C4D is a good choice.
I am now a happy Maya LT user and not looking back.
Previous couple of releases were pretty nice in regards to modeling.
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Aw yiss
Polypen looks intense and super powerful but so out of my comfort zone, have to step up my game
The materials look ridiculousy good, but the shader really needed improvements
Sculpting improvements nice
Bevel tag, this is just win, wanting that so badly
Ive been hoping for a big UV overhaul as it is C4Ds biggest weakness
but that didnt come, but they wrote about UV improvements and some things in that regard, so maybe we get pleasantly surprised
UV peeler for cylindrical objects, im not sure but it sounds something I needed very badly
Oh and those content browser things are insane. Wow
At R11 times I felt limited and dumb for using all my time on C4D instead
of programs like Max, but now where I know the others and around R13 I started feeling better and better about C4D and now Im really happy I learned it and its future looks great.
Polypen looks awesome, cant wait to try it out.
I am just curious though, what is so cumbersome about uving in C4d?
UV was/is my UVing tool whenever I work on characters/organics.
Just curious how you guys go about UVing stuff in C4D.
When I UV stuff in C4D it's basically the standard workflow of LSDM unwrapping.
Flat projection(frontal/camera) > selecting edges> cutting them> unwrap.
Pretty easy imo.
edit--
Damn. That content library stuff looks pretty cool as well. It would be awesome if you could set some "primitives" like that up yourself as well.
- https://www.facebook.com/pages/Xenus-Games/247129598759566?ref_type=bookmark
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQlaobeIwKY&list=UUI4WeXQK7RUKyzhSu0l_5-g
[IMG]http://www.polycount.com/forum/C:\Users\Ben\Documents\BA Games Design and Development\Level 4\Semeter two Yr 4\3D Studies\Gunblade WIP pics\GunBladeUVandNormalfinal2.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.polycount.com/forum/C:\Users\Ben\Documents\BA Games Design and Development\Level 4\Semeter two Yr 4\3D Studies\Boat W.I.P\Boat uv1.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.polycount.com/forum/C:\Users\Ben\Documents\3D Models\Construction Site\construction site final.png[/IMG]
Dead picture links, also maybe start an own thread in the proper forum would be a good idea.
But it is not the same as real Vertex Painting or Poly Painting, like zBrush calls it.
Because of that, I created the PolyPaint set of plugins.
They allow for the loading, saving, creation and editing of true Vertex/poly painting on any editable mesh.
OBJ files saved in zBrush/3DCoat or meshlab format may include RGB values attached to the vertexes. And my plugin reads those values. It also allows to save .OBJ files (in zBrush format) that include that RGB information. The same for .FBX files (in version 6.x, ASCII format).
But true Vertex/Poly painting can be created from scratch too.
Check out these videos I created while developing the plugins:
https://vimeo.com/98089097
https://vimeo.com/98694731
https://vimeo.com/99060291
And this is the promo video:
https://vimeo.com/106097060
I'm getting ready to produce a longer demo movie, showing how all tools works.
So, something that was missing in Cinema 4D is now available :-)
Rui Batista
then i tried cinema 4d... and uau !!
what a difference.
i think cinema 4d is so intuitive, and know with the Cmotion and Sculpting.... adding to mograph and if you can had Xparticles ... is the best
So, integration with Unity is much easier.
I love it, I used to use Maya and 3ds Max. I think C4D is extremely intuitive and easy to use. It has some great modeling tools and the motion design stuff is especially fun if you're into that stuff. Also, the material editor is pretty amazing, love that reflectance channel.
I uploaded my modeling palette here for free:
http://www.flowfiregames.com/#!modelingpal/c16fm
edit: hmm subpage dosnt load ? you can get there from here tho: http://www.flowfiregames.com/
(Ignore text in the middle, theres no C4D icon, only a download icon)
It has like pretty much everything you want in a condensed package, very helpful for beginners
and saves a lot of time if you don't know all shortcuts, as Maxon hides everything in menus.
The download also includes a shortcut file, with 3DS MAX style navigation.
HF!
Modeling in C4D is fast - when you get used to it and learn the useful shortcuts. It allows for easy reference image setups and a greatly customizable UI, which is really fast to use. The sculpting tools work relatively well - but aren't up to par with something like Zbrush.
Even though its main focuses are visualization and MoGraph, there's no reason not to use it for games as well.
C4D's UV mapping tools are arguably the worst in the CG industry
Overall, Cinema 4D is not a game industry oriented package,
It pales in comparison to Modo 10, 3ds max and even blender when it comes to that field.
But it doesn't matter though
Because the game industry is not maxon's audience
the Motion Graphics industry is, and that's something Cinema 4D shines at
With it's sleek and easy to learn and use UI
The fact that once you hit render and add a couple of options into the render options, the image just works.
There's no noise to worry about(most of the time)
It's modifiers are easy to work with
It's Hierarchy system is fucking amazing
And that's okay.
But why use C4D when you can use MODO 10 or even blender? They're both cheaper, also Modo is easier to model with from what I hear.