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Orbis / PS4

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glottis8 polycounter lvl 9
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-orbis-unveiled/

Pretty powerful from the specs. Can't wait to see more of this.

It looks like they are staying away from Cell, so i hope this means developing for it will be a lot easier, and there won't be a dip when developing several SKUs at the same time. Who knows.. maybe this will be lead sku if its good enough, and easy to develop.

CPU:

Orbis contains eight Jaguar cores at 1.6 Ghz, arranged as two “clusters”
Each cluster contains 4 cores and a shared 2MB L2 cache
256-bit SIMD operations, 128-bit SIMD ALU
SSE up to SSE4, as well as Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX)
One hardware thread per core
Decodes, executes and retires at up to two intructions/cycle
Out of order execution
Per-core dedicated L1-I and L1-D cache (32Kb each)
Two pipes per core yield 12,8 GFlops performance
102.4 GFlops for system


GPU:

GPU is based on AMD’s “R10XX” (Southern Islands) architecture
DirectX 11.1+ feature set
Liverpool is an enhanced version of the architecture
18 Compute Units (CUs)
Hardware balanced at 14 CUs
Shared 512 KB of read/write L2 cache
800 Mhz
1.843 Tflops, 922 GigaOps/s
Dual shader engines
18 texture units
8 Render backends


Memory:

4 GB unified system memory, 176 GB/s
3.5 available to games (estimate)


Storage:

- High speed Blu-ray drive

single layer (25 GB) or dual layer (50 GB) discs
Partial constant angular velocity (PCAV)
Outer half of disc 6x (27 MB/s)
Inner half varies, 3.3x to 6x


- Internal mass storage

One SKU at launch: 500 GB HDD
There may also be a Flash drive SKU in the future


Networking:

1 Gb/s Ethernet, 802.11b/g/n WIFI, and Bluetooth


Peripherals:

Evolved Dualshock controller
Dual Camera
Move controller


Extra:

Audio Processor (ACP)
Video encode and decode (VCE/UVD) units
Display ScanOut Engine (DCE)
Zlib Decompression Hardware

Replies

  • leilei
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    leilei polycounter lvl 14
    glottis8 wrote: »
    GPU is based on AMD’s “R10XX” (Southern Islands) architecture
    DirectX 11.1+ feature set


    ...


    Evolved Dualshock controller

    Zlib Decompression Hardware

    Grainofsalting this.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    Why grain of salt?

    The Ps3 has support for Zlib decompression (as does the 360 and the Wii). I'd expect it to be software, and not hardware though. The new Dual Shock is a known. I'd expect it to be OpenGL and Libgcm instead of Dx11, but to support pretty much the same feature set - because he GPU already supports it.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666
    I'd like to hear something on backwards compatibility, considering how bad that was botched on PS3 (No PS2 except on the old models, and PS1 still doesn't have texture smoothing on ps3 like it did on ps2 last I checked).
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Disappointed there is no ssd drive, I was hoping this generation of consoles could use them to help stream game content without loading/waiting for a hard drive. Is vram split with system memory?
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    I dont think they'll make that mistake again Zac.

    Poly, from what I hear, the PS4 is not backwards compatible with PS3 games.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    There'll be no backwards compatibility. It's touted a lot by players, but rarely used.

    FYI, if VGLeaks are accurate on both Durango and Orbis (and from what I know it's bang on the money), AMD have come out of this laughing.

    Both machines have almost identical hardware (I wouldn't be surprised if they use the exact same motherboard and processor from the same factories). The only real difference in terms of the actual boxes is that Durango has more memory (which is squandered by leaving nearly half of it for the OS), whereas Orbis has better processing power on the GPU (which is squandered by leaving several pipes disabled). It's hilarious.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    I agree with you about backwards compatibility (mostly).

    What do you mean regarding the PS4's GPU?
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I'd like to see some of the best ps3 titles like Journey on a market place, but yeah backwards compatibility is a lot of baggage.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    ZacD wrote: »
    I'd like to see some of the best ps3 titles like Journey on a market place, but yeah backwards compatibility is a lot of baggage.

    Yeah I think free PS4 versions (ports) of games like that should be added to your PSN account if you already own them, for sure. Otherwise they're going to come under a lot of (very justified) criticism.
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    Durango... orbis... gum brands? LOL

    They are trying to sell us an old computer with more than 6 years. This is pathetic, the PCs will suffer the crappy console port illness again.

    With all those specs, the new ps4 should cost around 250 euro.

    HD7k series gpu, and rumors point to a pitcairn 7970M U.U
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    Blaizer wrote: »
    They are trying to sell us an old computer with more than 6 years. This is pathetic, the PCs will suffer the crappy console port illness again.

    sounding quite agitated there man. ;) just get a console then...

    lazy PC ports are due to comparably small budgets for PC versions. e. g. you'd not be polishing your PC version anywhere close to the development effort you'd put into xbox and playstation or even adapting the designed-for-TV-interface and so on to PC specifics.

    instead a small team would kick a quick and dirty port out the door because your publisher does not really care about PC. no way a faster console would magically change that for the better. on the contrary, if you'd end up using more complex/niche features on the consoles that require extra porting effort, you'd rather drop them right away for PC.

    btw. not saying this is how it should be or that lazy ports do your brand any good at all.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    Blaizer wrote: »
    Durango... orbis... gum brands? LOL

    They are trying to sell us an old computer with more than 6 years. This is pathetic, the PCs will suffer the crappy console port illness again.

    With all those specs, the new ps4 should cost around 250 euro.

    HD7k series gpu, and rumors point to a pitcairn 7970M U.U

    Specs don't mean ****.

    'The Last of Us' looks as good as Witcher 2 on PC does. Hell; Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Halo 4, and many others, are all amazing looking titles.

    Specs matter to the PC master-race because they love a good e-peen so they go out and buy 690's so they can post pics and brag to their fellow master-race friends. But really specs don't mean much, we still get amazing experiences on consoles. (I'm primarily a PC gamer myself).

    Crappy ports also has nothing to do with console specs; think about it. Developers suddenly have 4X the GPU power, RAM, and they STILL mess it up? That's down to the developer, and not the fault of consoles.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Specs do mean a lot when developers hit the same walls over and over.
    The newest blogcast from Major Nelson, reviels that Epic fought for an Xbox 360 with 512MB memory. Microsoft first wanted an Xbox 360 with 256MB memory, Epic called Microsoft and showed them Gears of War with only 256MB memory.

    Then Microsoft announced the final hardware, with 512MB memory. Epic then became the first developer that had to work with the final Xbox 360 hardware. Later that day, Microsoft's 'Chief Financial Officer' called Epic and said: "You guys just costed me $1 billion", and Epic's Mark Rein responded with: "No, we just did 1 billion gamers a favor".

    I think video memory is one of the more important specs, high gpu's have 2 gigs, hope we get that much on consoles.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    Edit: Ninja'd

    The memory is shared across the system. You won't get 2GB of video memory; both machines have a 32MB read buffer from system memory connected to one bridge.

    I'd like to know where Blaizer buys his hardware, because six years ago I was still using a 512mb Geforce 6600 GT on a twin Pentium 4 rig with 1gb of memory (and it was more than adequate until the Geforce 8 series properly turned up at the end of the year).
    Andreas wrote: »
    What do you mean regarding the PS4's GPU?

    It has the theoretical physical ability to use a full 18 compute units whereas Durango is capable of using 12 - this would give it a fair edge on Microsofts machine (133% moar power!). However realistically it can only properly support 14, meaning there's not that much different at all (116%).

    I have a suspicion it's actually the same GPU and Sony are just reporting it as being more capable.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    ZacD wrote: »
    Specs do mean a lot when developers hit the same walls over and over.

    Yeah I wasn't referring the cluster**** SONY pulled last time with the locking off of the two blocks of VRAM, I was referring in relation to the whole, tired, PC vs Console debate.

    Thanks for the clarification amber.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666
    ambershee wrote: »
    There'll be no backwards compatibility. It's touted a lot by players, but rarely used.

    I used it a TON on PS2 to play PS1 games back in the day, and would already own a Vita if it let me play UMDs (via an accessory). Whether people use it or not, it helps convince them to 'upgrade' to the latest consoles instead of waiting for their game libraries to fill out more and prices to come down.
    ambershee wrote: »
    Both machines have almost identical hardware (I wouldn't be surprised if they use the exact same motherboard and processor from the same factories). The only real difference in terms of the actual boxes is that Durango has more memory (which is squandered by leaving nearly half of it for the OS), whereas Orbis has better processing power on the GPU (which is squandered by leaving several pipes disabled). It's hilarious.

    Doesnt PS4 have significantly faster RAM as well? Thats got to count for something right?
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    PolyHertz wrote: »
    Doesnt PS4 have significantly faster RAM as well? Thats got to count for something right?

    Microsoft's diagram shows how it works, and both have the same effective bandwidth (~170GB/s). Given the identical processor and likely motherboard, the reports given by VGLeaks would suggest it is pretty much the same memory setup (but in differing quantities).

    Even if I'm making a wrong assumption and it is different, the effective bandwidth is still approximately the same, so it doesn't realistically count for much.
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    thomasp wrote: »
    sounding quite agitated there man. ;) just get a console then...

    lazy PC ports are due to comparably small budgets for PC versions. e. g. you'd not be polishing your PC version anywhere close to the development effort you'd put into xbox and playstation or even adapting the designed-for-TV-interface and so on to PC specifics.

    instead a small team would kick a quick and dirty port out the door because your publisher does not really care about PC. no way a faster console would magically change that for the better. on the contrary, if you'd end up using more complex/niche features on the consoles that require extra porting effort, you'd rather drop them right away for PC.

    btw. not saying this is how it should be or that lazy ports do your brand any good at all.

    Lol, how can you feel i'm agitated just by some words?. I will never buy a console like these ones, because they are inferior to a PC in all the senses. I already own a 680 GTX OC, 16GB and a i72600k@4,5ghz. If i could play all my steam, uplay and origin games at 1080p with 120fps (3d), then... yes.

    In a few months i will be buying a new monitor with a higher res than 1080p, and to play a game with a 30fps cap at 1080 and less graphical quality is a shit imho. I wonder if they new games for these new consoles will use 4096 textures instead of 512s. Just see the huge difference between Hitman absolution PC and the Xbox360 version. Or just compare Crysis 1 vs the shitty ported Crysis 2.

    These new consoles are not next gen people, they will provide more of the same with ultra cheap components... it may be due to the global economic crisis. In fact, Japan will ship the ultra HD tvs in 2014, and panasonic already presented a 4k 20" tablet.

    If i buy a Ultra HD TV 4k/8k, i should... at least, to be able to play at the native resolution instead of 720p with less than 30 fps (skyrim in ps3).

    And with this i'm not debating anything related to PCvsConsoles, i'm just pointing the poor specs of the new xbox 720 and ps4, just that.

    8gbs... are err, ~25€ 1600mhz cl9

    7970m, = ~7850 (110€): http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7970M.72675.0.html
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    Blaizer wrote: »
    And with this i'm not debating anything related to PCvsConsoles, i'm just pointing the poor specs of the new xbox 720 and ps4, just that.

    Uhm, that was your entire argument; a PC versus Console comparison.

    If you want to back up your point, you're going to have to demonstrate why the new console hardware generation is not an improvement over the former rather than whinge and compare against the specifications of a PC that costs four times as much.
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    It's not just a comparison, i posted you some links, and i said the perfomance of the gpus are like to have a 7850 on a pc...

    What do you want?

    Let me ask you one thing... With which hardware do we make games for videoconsoles?. I'm sure you know the answer.

    If the new consoles only can give us the perfomance of a 7850... too bad. they will be surely better than the actual consoles, but not as much as for the jump to the next next gen games. Do you understand that?. These new consoles are only a lite version of a pc gaming rig, and i'm sure they will cost a lot.

    The specs are a shit imho.

    Why dont they include a ssd of 256gb for example?, or a better cpu? or a better gpu instead of those poor and cheap gpus?

    The new Ultra HD tvs will appear soon, and why the heck, these new consoles are not prepared for the new upcoming tech? there will be a ps5 in 2015?
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    well it's a business after all. developing/publishing for the current crop of consoles was a disaster for many companies and good for only a handful. it would be quite surprising if the already insane cost involved would have to be bumped up yet again for another leap in technology. plus there are so few developers left who could handle it all. everyone else still standing has run off to the app store last i checked. ;)

    i'd expect the next machines from MS and sony to imitate the wii (a rebadged overclocked gamecube-gen machine that didn't sell at a loss unlike it's competition) if they want console land to continue.
    and your 4096 square textures would increase memory consumption and load times by orders of magnitude. after all it will presumably still be 1080p with a fallback to 720p because that's what you can reasonably expect your customers to have in their living rooms.

    personally i'm fine with seeing graphics plateau for a while, we do have enough possibilities, i rather find the DCC tools lacking and workflows too timeconsuming and inflexible.
    imo, we need to free more budget for the core game experience to improve the overall output, not the damn parallaxmapped sugarcoating.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666
    Blaizer wrote: »
    Why dont they include a ssd of 256gb for example?

    Because it would be half the cost of the console?
  • Baj Singh
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    Baj Singh polycounter lvl 9
    I think people forget that consoles are supposed to be much more accessible then PC's. Most of the younger (and even casual) games just want something they can plug in and play with minimal setting up and an affordable price.

    Personally, the only games I play on my PC is League of Legends or Rollercoaster Tycoon. I'm not too fussed about squeezing a few extra frames per second for the overall cost that it entails. Plus most of the games I play are only available on consoles : ).
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    Consoles are not much accesible than a pc. Pcs are ultra cheap nowadays, and consoles will disappear very soon, mini pcs, tablets, all in one tvs will kill them. The Steam box is one example. The trend will be to unify all the plaftorms into one single and small and powerful machine, like a tiny pc you will connect to a TV.
    PolyHertz wrote: »
    Because it would be half the cost of the console?

    http://www.amazon.es/Crucial-CT128M4-Unidad-estado-s%C3%B3lido/dp/B004W2JKZI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359485063&sr=8-1

    one ssd of 128gb is aroud 90€, 256gb 170€. Are you saying the new consoles will cost 340 euros?. With the launch of ps3, sony was losing too much money with the blu-ray, they could do the same with the ssds now :).

    I do care a lot for perfomance, fps, and screen resolution. And i like to pay for something that will be useful for me. I don't care if it's expensive, more if i'm gonna use it for more than 5 years.

    The ps3 was launched between 2006-2007, and the 60gb version was 599€, insane. Now tell me if they will sell us the new console for less than 250 euro. I doubt it.

    8gb ram = ~30€ if 1600mhz, and less for 1333mhz
    Radeon 7850 = ~110€
    cpu at 1600mhz, octacore or quadcore is less than 80€
    ssd 128gb = 95€
    put 100€ more for the rest of the components and:

    415€ in total, and to round up the price, 450€ and it's a lot.

    A few weeks ago i demonstrate to Andreas how we could build a htpc with WIFI itx mobo (more expensive than ATX), ssd, 8gb ram, i5 ivy bridge, and 660 oc for less than 650 euro.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666
    I'm thinking they'll probably sell them for $399/399€ (I think they normally sell games/consoles for the same number of $/€ despite the value difference, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this). Also Sony isn't doing so well these days and cant eat the difference of manufacturing cost / consumer cost the way they once could.
  • Assbeard
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    Assbeard polycounter lvl 18
    Hi,

    Blaizer. You can't compare a console architecture to a PC like that. First of all, what exactly would the SSD add to a console? They stream from the game media anyway, and it's all setup so that seek-times are minimized. Only sequential reads matter. A SSD is awesome on a PC, because of the ability to quickly access data that's spread out all over.

    Also, you mention that 8 GB of RAM is cheap. Well, yes. But do you really think a PC can get 170 GB/s through its system memory? Nope. Nor can it get that through the PCI-E bus towards the graphics card (actually more like 1/10th of that). A high-end graphics card can have a huge internal memory bandwidth, but it's not really that useful for developers. And what do you think the 2 GB of memory on a high-end graphics card costs? 10€? Nope.

    That's one of the reasons you can do alot of cool stuff on consoles even if they, in theory, has obsolete hardware. The unified, fast memory. If the next-gen consoles has 8 GB of unified memory with as high bandwidth as 170 GB/s, that's very awesome.

    Personally, the latest news of the new Xbox and Playstation are good news. The similarity between the consoles and the use of hardware derived from the PC platform means the end of crappy ports, and the start of an era of multithread optimization and new thinking. Plus, they should be cool, silent and cheap. Basically, we all win, regardless of the choice of gaming platform.

    I paid 1600€ for my high-end PC. It is large, heavy, watercooled and awesome, but I don't really need another one just to play Halo.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    The 2 good things about new consoles for PC gamers. Hopefully we'll get games optimized for quad to 8 core processors, and more dx11 features in games.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    Tessellation baby. It's the new normal map 8)
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    ambershee wrote: »
    Tessellation baby. It's the new normal map 8)

    I'm so excited to see threads like

    displacement map black line error
    displacement map baking error
    tessellation seams
    tessellation inverted
    tessellation tangent sync issue

    instead of normal map
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    Blaizer wrote: »
    Consoles are not much accesible than a pc. Pcs are ultra cheap nowadays, and consoles will disappear very soon

    PC's are in no way 'ultra' cheap nowadays. And no, I don't need another shopping cart screengrab. Gaming PC's have always been and always will be more expensive than the consoles you can play the equivelant multi-plats on.

    Consoles will disappear when games like Journey, Halo, Shadow of the Colossus, Gears of War, Heavy Rain, Gran Turismo, The Last of Us, Zelda, Mario, and Ni no Kuni are no longer wanted.

    So, never.

    You see, these console makers pay millions and millions to have excellent, exclusive titles on their hardware. :thumbup:
    Blaizer wrote: »
    put 100€ more for the rest of the components and:

    You live in a dream world. 100 euros for a case, PSU, mobo, HDD etc.?

    But again, you're missing the point.

    It is wholly irrelevant that these machines have specs of three (realistically) year old gaming PC's. Because we still get great games/experiences out of it.

    So you can have your shitty ports lagging with 'console res' textures despite the 680 sitting in your case; you can have your petitions to bring console games to PC (Dark Souls); you can have your keyboard and mouse when people are using new and innovative input methods like the WiiU controller; you can wait 6 months for DLC because MS bought exclusivity rights. While you have all that most other gamers will be embracing both types of platform and will be much happier for it. :) Maybe next time go for a x70 and not a x80, you'll have more cash for a console. It's always best to buy middle market more frequently than blow a lot of cash on a card that does marginally better.

    The master race boggle my mind. Frothing at the mouth over 60fps yet missing out on great games like the ones listed above? Why not do both for crying out loud? I don't understand.
  • System
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycount sponsor
    I'm not expecting any backwards compatibility, but I sure would love to see them work it in somehow. Unfortunately there just weren't enough PS3 exclusives for me to justify getting one, but I'd love to pick up some of gems I missed and be able to play them on a new system.

    If not, I guess a used PS3 on the cheap would be fine...but meh, I hate having a bunch of consoles to lug around.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    $600 for a pc to pay most new games on high settings is a pretty low entry barrier. Most people are already spending $400 for a pc every 5 years.

    I'd argue there is more unique experiences for the pc, and hardware innovation is not reliant on the platform. I'm sure the PC crowd is going to embrace the oculus rift just as much as the console crowd. There's just as many racing game wheels, and flight simulator controls. The only reason there isn't any major motion controllers for the pc is because no one wants them. There's probably 10 or less games that are console exclusives I really want to play (Skate, Journey, Zelda), but I save a lot of money by just getting steam sales.

    There's not really any free to play options on consoles, PC Team Fortress 2, Dota2, LoL, Planetside 2, with more coming out every year. The pc is a much healthier enviroment for PC devs, the humble bundle is a perfect example. There's a lot of games that don't work on consoles, RTS like Civ V, or Starcraft 2. I just feel like I'd be missing out on more if I just had a console.
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    You can buy cheap graphic cards with 2gb gddr5 (ex. Radeon 7850, "ouhhhh it's very expensive!", in which world do you live?). 2gb it's the standard RIGHT now. PCIE 3.0 offers a huge bandwidth and the i5/i7s the same. PCs are not well exploited, they have 10+ times more power, and with this new "re-edition" they only will bring us 1080p with 30/60 fps cap and nothing more. You will end paying 500+ euro for a platform that will unable to play your actual xbox360 or ps3 games.

    Andreas, it seems you are videoconsole fanboy, and you forget that ALL the games are builded with PCs.

    Didn't you have a 3770k with a 680gtx in a itx case? or you were trolling me?

    If you see the specs well, you'll see a pc with laptop components. And if ps3 costed 600 euro the first months, don't expect to pay less than 450 euro for that piece of obsolete garbage without games. In fact, you could build a AMD pc system with ssd for 450+ euro.

    Later, it will happen like with the actual consoles, and we will see 120gb versions, 60gb, etc. "Oh damn, i will need to upgrade my xbox 360 with a better HD to store my games!", "oh no! i paid 100+ euros for these horrible time loads!?" (2,5" HDD 5400rpm). 1TB should be at least the minimum capacity if they don't use SSD. Otherwise, it will be a robbery for its price.

    A SSD is 5 times faster than a HDD, and if they use shitty and cheap HDDs, the system will be lame. If you build a pc with a new i5/i7 and 8gb ram without a SSD... you will fall under the term of an idiot because that system is unbalanced. A raid 0 with 2 Samsungs 256gb 840 pro SSDs are for 400 euro :).

    BTW, i play too many games with my wireless xbox 360 controller, in my TV, and with my PC, and you will see... we have the steam big picture now (it's fantastic!), but when they ship the steam box, all will change. All people will want only one device instead of a bunch of hot bricks (err consoles... my brick htpc is silent and very cool).

    And Andreas, I usually don't buy crap ports like Dark Souls: Prepare to don't use your PC edition". I only buy games with their PC versions like Hitman Absolution or Skyrim.

    Crysis 1 shipped in 2007, and i only hope to see a crysis 3 with the same level of quality or much better as crytek promised recently. Fuck, i also want to see what the luminous engine do! but with ultra settings at 30" :D or with ultra HD TV specs, 4k/8k.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    I'm just going to ignore Blaizer from now on.
    ZacD wrote: »
    There's not really any free to play options on consoles, PC Team Fortress 2, Dota2, LoL, Planetside 2, with more coming out every year.

    Yet. I'll eat my left shoe if none of the first titles we see on new consoles are not free to play or otherwise very similarly modeled.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    Blaizer wrote: »

    Andreas, it seems you are videoconsole fanboy, and you forget that ALL the games are builded with PCs.

    Didn't you have a 3770k with a 680gtx in a itx case? or you were trolling me?

    Actually I'm primarily a PC gamer. I have a PS3 but rarely use it, these days.

    I have a 3770 and a 660ti; in a Prodigy Bitfenix itx, yes.

    Blaizer, this is the second nex-gen console thread you have spoiled with the same argument. This thread is about the PS4 and that alone (not PC vs Consoles). The PS4's specs are actually pretty impressive; I compare them to how impressive the specs for the 360 where when that first came out. The PS4 features components you would build with today, like a decent amount of RAM and an 8 core processor. Developers will make great games with these resources, and yes, most games will be at 1080p/ 60fps. Please stop thread spoiling.
    ambershee wrote: »
    I'm just going to ignore Blaizer from now on.


    Yet. I'll eat my left shoe if none of the first titles we see on new consoles are not free to play or otherwise very similarly modeled.

    Yeah I'm right there with you.

    Regarding F2P, I would certainly like to see that, but I don't know if that will happen; or, if it will be done well.

    I certainly expect Planetside to be one of PS4's first F2P. Maybe with cross-platform? That would be great.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Yeah I definitely have thought planetside on PS4 could work. I'm also curious if Sony will keep doing Steam stuff with valve.

    I'm actually more interested in the ways the plan on improving the interfaces and the social aspect. I kinda wish consoles would have apps for the computer kinda like steam so you could do everything you could on the console in terms of view market place, picking out demos to download, buying games, messaging friends, etc.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    Andreas wrote: »
    Regarding F2P, I would certainly like to see that, but I don't know if that will happen; or, if it will be done well.

    I'm pretty sure it will happen, but am less sure it can be done well.
    Andreas wrote: »
    I certainly expect Planetside to be one of PS4's first F2P. Maybe with cross-platform? That would be great.

    Cross-platform just won't work - and it's not for technical reasons. Early cross-platform shooters on the 360 demonstrated that PC gamers had such a colossal advantage in the mouse and keyboard that console players simply quit permanently. Games like Unreal Tournament 3 ran at 75% the gameplay speed, not for performance reasons, but to render the game playable for the average user.

    If you want to test this theory, I suspect Shadowrun may be the only remaining cross platform that still works.
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    Andreas wrote: »
    Actually I'm primarily a PC gamer. I have a PS3 but rarely use it, these days.

    I have a 3770 and a 660ti; in a Prodigy Bitfenix itx, yes.

    You a pcgamer? i don't think so.
    Andreas wrote:
    Blaizer, this is the second nex-gen console thread you have spoiled with the same argument. This thread is about the PS4 and that alone (not PC vs Consoles). The PS4's specs are actually pretty impressive; I compare them to how impressive the specs for the 360 where when that first came out. The PS4 features components you would build with today, like a decent amount of RAM and an 8 core processor. Developers will make great games with these resources, and yes, most games will be at 1080p/ 60fps. Please stop thread spoiling.

    I only replied on this one man, orbis, and my whole point is:
    The PS4's specs are actually NOT impressive for me. The opposite to some of you. Ps3 is also multicore, and the new specs are not as great as you may think. There's too much hype around these new consoles for this time of crisis. This ps4 DOES NOT suppose a change of generation.

    I argumented it with prices, but you seem to be blind. Another thing will be the DRM/security for this ps4.

    These consoles are just delaying the technology...

    Time to time, and let's see if the final price is 450 dollars.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    Break it up boys lol. I'm excited for next-gen, these specs look really nice! Although it'll probably get outdated fast... it's still some great power. This time I'm going to wait and see what the new Xbox has, I'll probably go with the "Orbis" or Ps4 but we'll see. Looking forward to this.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    Impressive or not, the specs of a console generation set the benchmark for most PC development. If a studio is going to spend a AAA budget on a PC game they also want to make sure it runs on consoles. If it's PC only you want it to run on as many PC's as possible, that means aiming for pretty low hardware specs - once again, about the same as the current generation of consoles.
  • okkun
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    okkun polycounter lvl 18
    Can we please just have sorted transparency this time around? I suppose that's more up to the engine but damn that bothers me..
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    ambershee wrote: »

    Cross-platform just won't work - and it's not for technical reasons. Early cross-platform shooters on the 360 demonstrated that PC gamers had such a colossal advantage in the mouse and keyboard that console players simply quit permanently. Games like Unreal Tournament 3 ran at 75% the gameplay speed, not for performance reasons, but to render the game playable for the average user.

    If you want to test this theory, I suspect Shadowrun may be the only remaining cross platform that still works.

    Never thought of that.

    Cross-platform may work for controller only games but yeah there would be too much of a disadvantage with an FPS. Unless they finally let us use kb/m with consoles. Had to buy a very expensive peripheral to use them on my PS3. :(
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    Probably can now, given that there's a bit more muscle to play with.
  • Autocon
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    Autocon polycounter lvl 15
    Tessellation is so wasteful I doubt many games will use it beyond specific cases until a optimized version of it can be found.


    New shaders and lighting are what this generation are going to be about, not extra geo detail. Lighting and material definition are what make or break things.


    Look at 1313 demo, no tessellation, just great lighting and shader work.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 17
    Autocon wrote: »
    Tessellation is so wasteful I doubt many games will use it beyond specific cases until a optimized version of it can be found.

    People said the same about normal mapping (the argument being that diffuse, normal and specular means you're using three times as many textures compared to when you bake it into the one texture).

    The argument didn't last.

    Tesselation won't be used on everything and people will optimise it. Normal mapping isn't just one technique either, it's a whole range of techniques stemming from one theory. Tesselation and dynamic displacement is the same, as people on these forums are already demonstrating.

    FYI, tesselation based techniques are already in use in some console games.
  • Fingus
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    Fingus polycounter lvl 11
    I agree. Tesselation is flashy, but doesn't have enough important implementations to make it a critical feature. I'd also like to see better physics and simulation so we can finally get some good cloth and hair. I don't know how consoles handle overdraw, but I imagine some solutions on that front too would go a long way as well.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I personally feel tesselation is critical for some uses such as terrain, and rocks. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was optimized to have a similar performance hit to to bump offset or parallax mapping. I love the use of tesselation in this demo. It isn't on everything, but it does make the ropes look 10x better http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116357
  • Autocon
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    Autocon polycounter lvl 15
    ambershee wrote: »
    People said the same about normal mapping (the argument being that diffuse, normal and specular means you're using three times as many textures compared to when you bake it into the one texture).

    They wernt wrong though, it was just people ditched specular maps more so than normal maps. Everything will have a Diffuse and Normal, but a lot of things can get away with a generic tiling specular map shared by multiple shaders, or no specular map at all and just use some shader tricks.


    For terrain and extremely organic forms like rocks, yes I totally agree adaptive tessellation will be huge. But in that rope example, for the thousands of tris to make it look that dense, you could go into the model its self and add maybe another 300/400 tris and get the same effect. (I am only referring to geometry displacement tessellation)


    Again, not saying it wont be used or isnt important. I am just saying its extremely wasteful as it stands now and wont be what really makes next gen. Lighting and physical based shaders will.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    As long as we aren't baking lighting anymore I'm all for next gen ^-^
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