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Autodesk 2014 What's New?

1
If you haven't had a chance to check out the new features about to hit the market soon (normally in mid April) you should check em out now.

http://area.autodesk.com/2014unfold/index.html

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  • Roxxor
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    Roxxor polycounter lvl 9
    Now starts the painful and frantic search to see if they answered my pleas and fixed the horrendous caddie controls. No one is holding their breath.
  • Mark Dygert
    Personally I don't see much happening in Max that would get anyone excited, except the new menu systems and slight Nitrous updates. the perspective match will be helpful in some cases but in our industry matching a camera to a concept isn't all that important or easy given it's perspective is entirely subjective.

    I see a lot of things added to Maya that should have happened years ago, but its nice to finally have them.
    Nex and other modeling tools finally added. I'll give them a spin the first chance I get and hopefully they match or even exceed what I can do in max. I might dump max... I'm forced to animate with it at work and I don't wish that on anyone, but straddling the divide just to model and then animate is a pain I look forward to not dealing with someday, either max gets its act together or Maya does I really don't care...

    Grease Pencil is cool and useful it will probably be nice to stop using 3rd party scripts and software to do the same thing. Having it all integrated and working with normal commands is pretty cool. I see non animators using it to critique environment and character art. As an animator who uses max I'm a bit jealous, all we have is a 3rd party script that isn't all that fluid.
  • Roxxor
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    Roxxor polycounter lvl 9
    My God. I think they've done it. And it's beautiful.


    http://docs.autodesk.com/3DSMAX/16/ENU/3ds-Max-Help/index.html?url=files/GUID-AA81EA1A-B4E1-4B47-B3AE-7C4AD62E24FF.htm,topicNumber=d30e3789,hash=GUID-F10EB01A-C1B8-422F-AE10-5AC53854C9EE

    Navigate:
    Modeling > Surface Modeling > Editable Poly Surface > Editable Poly Settings >
  • VictorSantos
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    VictorSantos polycounter lvl 12
    About 3DsMax 2014... the crowd control animation seems pretty cool, the improvements on the nitrous viewport were necessary and they nailed it, also about the viewport the new pan and zoom it's great!

    The new Particle Flow features seems really cool but they really need to make
    some more improvements in there.

    As Mark said there's some improvements but I'd rather wait a couple of years to a new version with some more new stuff and some bugs that have been there for years solved.
  • CrazyMatt
    I'm looking forward to the Maya one next for sure. I have to say the perspective grid thing is pretty nifty for 3ds max though.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    no dx shader support in nitrous yet?

    no upgrade from me!
  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 11
    There was some talk about ShaderFX being rolled into 3dsmax, since ShaderFX is no longer being developed now. Anything happen with that?
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    Bigjohn wrote: »
    There was some talk about ShaderFX being rolled into 3dsmax, since ShaderFX is no longer being developed now. Anything happen with that?

    Kees is in the maya team now... :D
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Bigjohn wrote: »
    There was some talk about ShaderFX being rolled into 3dsmax, since ShaderFX is no longer being developed now. Anything happen with that?

    Damn, that would be so cool.

    I would love a full UDK style (Except faster) visual material editor to go along with their DX11 viewport.
  • shaderfx
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    shaderfx polycounter lvl 9
    Join the Maya beta and see for yourself :)
    -Kees
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    I'm not a Maya user, but that's still interesting. Do you have any links?
  • R3D
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    R3D interpolator
    Doesnt look like softimage gets the sexy dark UI yet :X
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    no dx shader support in nitrous yet?

    no upgrade from me!

    Is this what you're looking for?

    mVLVe4A.png
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Is this what I think it is?

    BUu9Aik.png

    Did they fix the normal map tangent space mismatch? Looks like they might have went beyond that as well.
  • Renaud Galand
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    Renaud Galand polycounter lvl 19
    http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/autodesk-entertainment-creation-suites-2014-released/

    Scroll down to see a bunch of videos showing some of the new features.

    I'm personally more exited about the maya updates than the max ones. SO glad Nex is finally a part of the software. Can't wait, really.
  • AndrejGrek
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    AndrejGrek polycounter lvl 7
    Autodesk needs to integrate third party plug-ins to prolong the life of their backward products? Nex is a good tool, but does autodesk not have its own vision on how to shape Maya into a perfect product? This addition of simple to develop (in autodesk company size measures) tools like a pencil a so called "advanced modelling workflow" which is plainly just Nex integrated into maya (no autodesk resources required at all...).... Something is wrong with this. Some tools even get replaced with worse versions (cut poly tool...).

    I suspect autodesk has no vision of how to develop the products. Softimage gets downgraded from a full 3D modeling animation package to some ICE playground and a "character animation package"??? This is what happens when you own 3 competitive products and cannot decide which will be the leader. :)

    I think that the products can be improved much more over one year development period (think luxology modo) if the company had clear vision of where the product is going.

    Adding DX11 viewport into a crossplatform Maya makes the linux and mac os versions feel a rip-off too. Turtle baking also a windows only (Suite only) feature....

    :)
  • chris89
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    chris89 polycounter lvl 10
    Looks like there's quite some handy fixes for max that are hidden inside the documentation. (Things like optional caddy, customizable navigation and normal map algorithm controls among others)
    Also nitrous supports dx11 and hlsl like the maya 2.0 viewport but it's not being showcased. I guess autodesk have their marketing priorities..

    Most of the maya updates were needed years ago and there's still plenty to do there :(

    I'm surprised there's no official open subdiv support in either though.
  • Bellsey
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    Bellsey polycounter lvl 8
    AndrejGrek wrote: »
    Autodesk needs to integrate third party plug-ins to prolong the life of their backward products? Nex is a good tool, but does autodesk not have its own vision on how to shape Maya into a perfect product? This addition of simple to develop (in autodesk company size measures) tools like a pencil a so called "advanced modelling workflow" which is plainly just Nex integrated into maya (no autodesk resources required at all...).... Something is wrong with this. Some tools even get replaced with worse versions (cut poly tool...).

    I suspect autodesk has no vision of how to develop the products. Softimage gets downgraded from a full 3D modeling animation package to some ICE playground and a "character animation package"??? This is what happens when you own 3 competitive products and cannot decide which will be the leader. :)

    I think that the products can be improved much more over one year development period (think luxology modo) if the company had clear vision of where the product is going.

    Adding DX11 viewport into a crossplatform Maya makes the linux and mac os versions feel a rip-off too. Turtle baking also a windows only (Suite only) feature....

    :)

    There's perhaps a few too many wild assumptions there, but of course that's totally your prerogative. :)

    If you go the link first posted on this topic, you can see Cory Mogk (Maya's Product Manager) offer some insight onto things Autodesk are working on. Unfortunately, due to various business rules (because Autodesk is a public listed company), we can't unveil full and detailed roadmaps.

    On the new modeling toolkit, we haven't just dropped Nex into Maya and left it, we've actually built upon on it, so it can work better and we can colaborate to make improvements. Over the last few verions of Maya there has been some improvements to modeling (nips & tucks), and this is all part of an ongoing revamp of modeling and other usability projects for Maya, so there is 'resource' working on things.
    We are of course aware of things like Open Subdiv, which personally, I would love to see intergrated in some way, but this isn't an overnight task.

    On Maya's DX11 integration, this is great addition and long overdue (imo), and though the linux/max users are initially missing out, this is all part of Maya's ongoing Viewport 2.0 improvements. Even without DX11 features, there's still alot there in VP2.0 at the moment for linux and mac users.
    Also, VP2.0 has an API that users can use to get into things, we also use the same API to implement things which is all about making Maya open for incorporating into pipelines.
  • shaderfx
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    shaderfx polycounter lvl 9
    chris89 wrote: »
    Also nitrous supports dx11 and hlsl like the maya 2.0 viewport but it's not being showcased. I guess autodesk have their marketing priorities..

    This is not correct.
    Maya's DX11 support goes far deeper then what you will find in 3dsMax.
    The 3dsMax implementation will allow DX9 shaders to be converted into DX11 shaders, but the new features of DX11, such as tessellation, compute shaders etc will not be possible in 3dsMax.

    Therefor I think it was the right call for the 3dsMax team not to boast this too much in marketing because there is still more work to do there.

    As for Autodesk buying plugins and dropping those in to complement new releases, I can tell you first hand you could not be more wrong. Usually a lot of effort goes into taking a 3rd party plugin and making it part of the Maya build. I will spare you to details, but the programking effort behind such a thing is usually pretty huge.

    Also, the work that went into supporting DX11 will djrectly benefit users on other platfofms. The API for thing such as tessellation are not platform dependent. But you are mistaken if you think that OpenGL enjoys the same level of implementation on for example MAC as DiredtX 11 does on windows. That is just not true. I dont think you could even run OpenGL 4 on a MAC if you wanted too. At least not easily.
  • chris89
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    chris89 polycounter lvl 10
    Fair enough on the max dx11 point :)

    Bellsey, it'd be great to see opensubdiv support but i understand there's quite a bit of work involved in getting it supported in the software. Still good to see you guys are looking at it. Thanks for the update!
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 12
    I like crapping on Autodesk as much as the next guy, but maybe we should wait and see the release program where people actually have access to the program and are using it before all of that?

    For all we know, they could have fixed every little tiny issue on hand, insane, I know, but still, lets not become Kotakuists in here.
  • jipe
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    jipe polycounter lvl 17
    p.s. Just wanted to add that Kees has been super helpful behind the scenes, not only with his DX11/shader work in Maya but also working to support specific game-related workflows. We won't be able to upgrade mid-production for various technical reasons, but plenty of people here are interested in getting their hands on all the new stuff in Maya 2014.
  • AndrejGrek
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    AndrejGrek polycounter lvl 7
    I understand the programming effort, but the creative design effort is nonexistent. Did autodesk not have it's own idea of proper modeling tools for maya? Nex may be wide used and popular so they've chosen to include it, but they should have had their own idea of a proper toolset. Nex feels more like it was taken out of Max anyway UI wise, and I agree that a mere plugin is nothing like having an integrated tool.

    I agree that i went a little over the edge, but I always liked maya and don't see the old package growing as some of the newer packages. It just seems to me that people developing it are out of creative ideas...

    I think there are still things with maya that need to be modernised and this is most important that some added features, so I also agree with that. If an update just fixed that, it will be worth it.

    What i don't understand is when Maya is a complete product, why when buying a suite we get turtle baking and there is NO way of getting it in a Maya stand alone. I understand this is a motivation to get a suite, but for a zBrush user, this means paying for mudbox, and that is a problem.

    I certainly don't know how such thing should be adressed by autodesk, but I am only expressing my opinion.
  • cryrid
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    cryrid interpolator
    AndrejGrek wrote: »
    Did autodesk not have it's own idea of proper modeling tools for maya?

    Isn't that how they tend to operate? It usually seems like they stop innovating once they acquire a software package, and then just rely on incorporating other plugins or features from their other lineup. Like Softimage, which since it was acquired has only really seen the addition of ICE modeling and Kinematics (which were already being worked on prior), a UV unwrapping plugin, the FACEROBOT plugin, the usernormal addon being included into the main program, and then features from other programs such as the view cube. It just seems like other companies such as Pixologic put Autodesk to shame every time they upgrade their respective programs.

    I'm all for the efforts taken to make their products play nicer with each other, I just don't see why the prices keep climbing when all we seem to get is something as minimal as the camera sequencer.
  • m4dcow
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    m4dcow interpolator
    AndrejGrek wrote: »
    What i don't understand is when Maya is a complete product, why when buying a suite we get turtle baking and there is NO way of getting it in a Maya stand alone. I understand this is a motivation to get a suite, but for a zBrush user, this means paying for mudbox, and that is a problem.

    On one hand you are moaning about Maya integrating plugins instead of building its own tools from scratch, then you are bitching about not getting access to Turtle, which was also a 3rd party plugin.

    I am usually among the disappointed when it comes to Maya releases, but this year it has gotten a lot of good additions. I also participated on the Maya feedback site, and got e-mails notifying me that a bunch of stuff is "fixed" in 2014.

    Obviously there is going to be stuff that people want that doesn't get implemented, or on the flip side stuff added that you didn't think anyone wanted (Grease Pencil), but this year I don't think anyone can complain about Maya too much.
  • AndrejGrek
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    AndrejGrek polycounter lvl 7
    I did not know who developed Turtle, I only care as a customer, that it is not offered anyhow with a stand alone version of Maya, which should be in my opinion a complete product after all those years of development.

    I also think that having a creative vision about a product directly implies that you come out with original ways of solving the problem the product has, that is better than a third party product, because as a developer you must understand the product better.

    I think Grease pencil is a good and useful tool, I only said that it seems like too little development work for a company as autodesk to put into one of its flagship products... I think there should be at least 3-4 more grease pencil tools in a version update of a software. I think such update should be included for free for previous version owners.

    I agree that some features please some people and not the others. Modo also ignores many game dev requests release after release :)
  • Mark Dygert
    For me as long as they take care in integrating it and it doesn't end up duct taped onto the final version, I don't necessarily mind if they integrate 3rd party plug-ins. If it saves time and is done right it's great! Some of my favorite plug-ins have been included in max and it's made my life easier. Of course I often disagree with how they integrating the new pieces...

    The problems crop up when integrating the 3rd party stuff. Sometimes the 3rd party author had to do a bunch of crazy work arounds because they where not 1st party and those issues don't get resolved because it all just works.

    Or they just couldn't come up with a better way to work it, not as well versed in a few programming techniques, or where just getting familiar with the language and program, had a full time job, figure they will get around to it someday, or they only interact with an object in a particular way "Sorry this object needs to be collapsed to editable mesh" great... I've got a stack I really don't want to collapse.

    Once the plug-in is acquired if no one takes care of those crazy work arounds and everyone just carries on because on the surface it all just sort of works, then as time goes other people go to build on whats there and its a total nightmare. 18 different ways to do the same thing all of them coming from different systems and all of it tangled together by a bunch of 3rd party people who had different levels of interest in making their code usable by other people.

    A prime example of this is sitting inside 3dsmax.
    Editable Mesh (original legacy)
    Editable Poly (3rd party)
    Polyboost/Graphite Modeling/Ribbon Tools (3rd party)

    What happens is there are 3-4 different ways just to interact with the same things, sometimes the interface is identical but the code is using a completely different system, to do the exact same thing. Chamfer, loops rings, Slice ect...

    What about the UV editor, want to convert a selection of edges to verts or polys? Can't hold down a key and press the icon like you can in a bunch of other tools, even through the conversion methods are actually coded into the UV editor, they just aren't hooked up to operate the same way.
    Simple fix NEVER been done, not even when it was overhauled err... re-skinned a few versions back. Some 3rd party guy is going to do it with a new set of buttons and that new button is going to get tacked on as a new method right along side the old way, what-do-ya-wanna-bet?

    Polyboost was the same way it was originally designed so you could hide the command panel and ignore the edit poly commands. As a result polyboost had a bunch of duplicate and only slightly improved functions all of which should have been rolled into edit poly. But instead it was duplicated into a ribbon. Brilliant now we have loop, ring, bevel and chamfer functions hogging up even more screen space in two places.

    Everything that was in polyboost should have gone into improving Edit Poly.
    Everything that was in Edit poly should have gone into improving Edit Mesh.

    SoundTrax was dumped in max as prosound, nothing else changed other than the name. It still has it's goofy 100 sound file limit, which technically you can get around by adding 99 and then adding 2-3-400 more. It still has some functions that say they do one thing and don't do anything and it still has somethings that aren't quite exposed as they should be making them useless.

    This all leads to all kinds of confusion especially around the 3rd party folks who are actually doing the innovating. Because there isn't a cohesive base that gets upgraded, it's actually corrosive to the user base.

    So far all I see is window dressing and papering over of some core issues that have been there for a very long time. I'm sure they are complex and difficult to tackle but they should be dealt with.

    No doubt in response to this, we'll get another ribbon...
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 12

    No doubt in response to this, we'll get another ribbon...

    Don't joke like that! You'll vex it!
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    It doesn't sound like there's much new in softimage, I wonder if Japan is just keeping the package alive.
  • Papigiulio
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    Papigiulio polycounter lvl 5
    Roxxor wrote: »
    My God. I think they've done it. And it's beautiful.


    http://docs.autodesk.com/3DSMAX/16/ENU/3ds-Max-Help/index.html?url=files/GUID-AA81EA1A-B4E1-4B47-B3AE-7C4AD62E24FF.htm,topicNumber=d30e3789,hash=GUID-F10EB01A-C1B8-422F-AE10-5AC53854C9EE

    Navigate:
    Modeling > Surface Modeling > Editable Poly Surface > Editable Poly Settings >

    Awesome! This was a much needed fix. Mind you there is a scriptable fix in the 2012 Design version :) Unfortunately it only works for English versions.
  • Meteora
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    Meteora polycounter lvl 8
    ZacD wrote: »
    It doesn't sound like there's much new in softimage, I wonder if Japan is just keeping the package alive.

    I do wonder why Softimage has such a huge hold over Japan.

    The additions in the new software sounds fairly nice. Not too keen about the new logos but that's not really relevant in the grand scheme of things.
  • Minato
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    Minato polycounter lvl 5
    1. Let me get this straight, Autodesk acquires and puts off market ShaderFX, the 3ds Max shader creation plugin and then goes off integrating/improving/whatever the tech into Maya?... I'm a little confused...

    2. Sooo, no catmull-clark for Max??... really?

    3. No talk about the new 'Enhanced Menu' system(which looks really cool and fresh)?... I had to dig my way through help files to get a better look at them...

    4. Aaand Maya gets a set of modeling tools, how about a decent Node editor for Max, for gods sake...
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I really wish Autodesk would make a 3d software package from the ground up. We like new software, we don't cling to names we know.
  • chaosblade
    Not much happening in softimage as usual, may have to move over to maya to try out the new modelling tools.
  • AndrejGrek
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    AndrejGrek polycounter lvl 7
    ZacD wrote: »
    I really wish Autodesk would make a 3d software package from the ground up. We like new software, we don't cling to names we know.

    I agree with this. Maybe the experience acquired from developing all the packages simultaneously would come to better fruition in a new ULTIMATE package :) Now this last sentence may sound a little sarcastic, but I meant it for real. It could be better, that digging in archaic software design to make it work under new requirements.

    Some customizable UI / UX would probably be a must though... The backend could be just one.
  • meathead
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    meathead polycounter lvl 4
    I was waiting for the day for me to drop max and go to maya. The last few versions maya has had more then max everytime and advanced more again. Is it because a lot of animators use maya?

    Ive used max for 8 years now and had maya on the side.

    10 years ago my friend once said " Dont use max since maya will be able to do everything but better"

    Now I shall be moving over to maya for good.
  • Karaoke_Warrior
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    Karaoke_Warrior polycounter lvl 13
    Well, let's just hope Autodesk never buys Pixologic.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666
    If nothing else it's nice to see Caddies finally going away in Max, Nex + raycast bone placement in Maya, and auto-retopology in Mudbox. But that's about everything that stands out to me from these new releases.
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Still it's sick people are happy that after few years AD went back to something they had before. They had many oportunities not only to go back to old dialog boxes but to improve them.
  • shaderfx
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    shaderfx polycounter lvl 9
    Minato wrote: »
    1. Let me get this straight, Autodesk acquires and puts off market ShaderFX, the 3ds Max shader creation plugin and then goes off integrating/improving/whatever the tech into Maya?... I'm a little confused...

    I can see how that is confusing, but there was a Maya prototype of ShaderFX developed by me which was then acquired by Autodesk (specifically Frank Delise) to further develop.

    The Maya prototype was from scratch, so it had nothing to do with the 3dsMax version other then everything I learned from it and wanted to change was changed.

    The prototype, at one point, ran both in Maya, 3dsMax and stand-alone(-ish).

    At the moment, we are just focusing on Maya.
    I think that makes sense and I don't feel there is any Autodesk evilness behind it. Its easier to make it work really well in one app first.

    Luckily the code is pretty application independent so if it ever makes sense to make it work in Max I am sure it can be done.

    Autodesk didn't really 'kill' the old 3dsMax version.
    It was mutually agreed upon to stop its development and focus on the new version.
    After about 5+ years of the old version, it really was time to start from scratch.

    You can do such amazing things with shaders now and the old version was starting to show its age. The old version was a 'fun idea' that Ben Cloward and I had years ago that kind of grew out of hand because we both loved the concept.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    shaderfx wrote: »
    I can see how that is confusing, but there was a Maya prototype of ShaderFX developed by me which was then acquired by Autodesk (specifically Frank Delise) to further develop.

    The Maya prototype was from scratch, so it had nothing to do with the 3dsMax version other then everything I learned from it and wanted to change was changed.

    The prototype, at one point, ran both in Maya, 3dsMax and stand-alone(-ish).

    At the moment, we are just focusing on Maya.
    I think that makes sense and I don't feel there is any Autodesk evilness behind it. Its easier to make it work really well in one app first.

    Luckily the code is pretty application independent so if it ever makes sense to make it work in Max I am sure it can be done.

    Autodesk didn't really 'kill' the old 3dsMax version.
    It was mutually agreed upon to stop its development and focus on the new version.
    After about 5+ years of the old version, it really was time to start from scratch.

    You can do such amazing things with shaders now and the old version was starting to show its age. The old version was a 'fun idea' that Ben Cloward and I had years ago that kind of grew out of hand because we both loved the concept.

    Can you please link me to where I can see this maya shader FX program? (If its publicly availible, that is) I am not a maya user but I would like to see it.
  • Zigzter
    I wish they'd add a way to swap Alt and Spacebar in Maya without having to resort to an external program.

    New modeling tools look cool though
  • iniside
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    iniside polycounter lvl 6
    Just integrate max modeling tools into maya. That is all that is need for maya modeling.
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 18
    iniside wrote: »
    Just integrate max modeling tools into maya. That is all that is need for maya modeling.

    Mayax?

    Sounds like some kind of Anti-Depressant.

    EDIT:
    Actually its fairly ingenious the scam Autodesk have. Other than mostly a Monopoly. They make the strengths of one program greater than the other. So a studio in theory to cover all basis has to purchase 2 or more (Don't forget Softimage), network licenses for some boxes versus one.
  • meathead
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    meathead polycounter lvl 4
    I never got into maya due to the fact the UI was all over the place unlike max. But having all these customization is actually very handy. I customize my zbrush to the way I want it and its faster again for my work flow. Max does have customization but not as much as maya. I will still be using max for my important plugins and what not.
  • Toast
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    Toast polycounter lvl 11
    Bellsey wrote: »
    On the new modeling toolkit, we haven't just dropped Nex into Maya and left it, we've actually built upon on it, so it can work better and we can colaborate to make improvements.

    Appreciate the new modelling updates. I don't think Maya users can get enough modellig updates! But from the previews it now looks like there are now two soft selection tools, two bevel tools, two bridge tools, three split selection tools and two cut tools now? (ie the Nex version and the now legacy Maya version)etc..

    I don't expect a message back explaining anything, but please kill off the legacy tools! Since Maya 2014 binary no longer talks to previous versions its a good time to do it :)
  • Minato
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    Minato polycounter lvl 5
    shaderfx wrote: »
    I can see how that is confusing, but there was a Maya prototype of ShaderFX developed by me which was then acquired by Autodesk (specifically Frank Delise) to further develop.

    Delissssssse you traitooooor!...lol, I was just really looking forward to Max getting some Shader(FX) love... Thanks for clearing things up btw...

    Btw, that Decimation/Auto-Retopo function in Maya's new tools looks really nice, but hey we got ProOptimizer... sigh.
  • shaderfx
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    shaderfx polycounter lvl 9
    Minato wrote: »
    Btw, that Decimation/Auto-Retopo function in Maya's new tools looks really nice [...][/I] sigh.

    I agree. I think it is similar to what XSI has, where it can keep the quads etc. I was happy to see that in Maya!
  • cw
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    cw polycounter lvl 17
    modo's looking nice these days. :)
  • WarrenM
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