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Asking for advice about career paths.

Hey guys. So I'm finishing up my master's degree in interactive entertainment (game design basically). I'm a 3D artist right now but I'm severely torn on what I want to specialize in during my last semester and what kind of jobs I want to apply for. I'm supposed to be working on my portfolio this last semester but I literally have no idea what I should do.

I've narrowed it down a bit, and I know I like working with characters. The dilemma is that, should I just focus on being a character modeller or aim for a character technical artist position. I'm proficient with modelling, texturing, rigging and I know enough python to get my hands dirty. I also do in-engine work (mostly udk and ue4). I'm really torn because I hear that getting a job as a character artist is very hard and I frankly don't know if I'm good enough or can be in the next few months. I definitely don't want to be floundering after graduation.

I enjoy doing both, so it's not really a question of passion, it's a question of I don't know what the industry expects out of me, so what can I do to better my chances at landing a studio gig?

I have a website but it's in a bit of disarray right now as I'm organizing and moving, so I won't post that. I will post an example of some of my more recent work though here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6aajjzYI_U

Any advice is helpful. :(

Replies

  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    I started out as character artist and then moved on to being a technical artist. For me, there were 2 reasons I did the career change. I realized that, for me (may be different for you), the amount of practice I needed to become good like some super-start modelers would be more effort than becoming good at technical things. And that I got bored with character modeling. The job was pretty much "here is a concept. Make it so", asset after asset after asset. There was little variety - that may have been the studio's fault though, because the "awesome monster sculpting dude" always got the awesome monsters, the "sexy women modeling dude" always modeled women, and so on.

    As technical artist I can get my hands dirty with all kinds of cool stuff. Scripts, engines, new tech like UE4, Substance, etc. I do miss modeling though, but I don't think I can go back doing it full time.

    As for starting out as a tech artist, you better have a good folio of tech-artsy stuff. I'd say good Unreal skills always get you hired. Apart from that exception, I found a lot of studios are looking for experience, so it may be easier to get a first job as non TA and then slowly move into that role. Also, I think its a plus if a TA has worked in an art production position, because as TA you will support these people and should understand what they're doing and what their problems are (in a production setting that is).
  • CamWilkerson
    Is it super hard to find a job as a character artist? I do like doing the technical things, but there's one caveat with that: I'm not the best scripter. Yeah, I can fumble my way through it and produce a product at the end that works but I'm certainly not very good at it. I can rig well though and do other Unreal technical things like animation trees, etc.

    If I did go down the character modelling path, could I submit the same portfolio to a position like an environment artist or other modelling positions or is that generally looked down on?
  • SecretPro
    If I did go down the character modelling path, could I submit the same portfolio to a position like an environment artist or other modelling positions or is that generally looked down on?

    Honestly that is not a good look. Insomniac Games had a good article regarding what is now becoming a trend, due to how desperate people are to get in. My advice don't do it if you are a character guy and do props you can be regarded as a 3D artist. If you do characters only, apply to character positions.

    Quite sticky situation you got, being that you are in a master's program, and this industry really only looks at the work. So I think is best you decide what to specialist in and master that area. You already seem to have a base on the character pipeline, so why not continue to push it? Good luck
  • CamWilkerson
    SecretPro wrote: »
    Honestly that is not a good look. Insomniac Games had a good article regarding what is now becoming a trend, due to how desperate people are to get in. My advice don't do it if you are a character guy and do props you can be regarded as a 3D artist. If you do characters only, apply to character positions.

    Quite sticky situation you got, being that you are in a master's program, and this industry really only looks at the work. So I think is best you decide what to specialist in and master that area. You already seem to have a base on the character pipeline, so why not continue to push it? Good luck

    Thanks! I've actually read that article and they specify at the end that they're talking about applying to something with radically different skills (like their example, applying to HR as an artist). In my experience, I feel like the two specialties (environment and character) do share some knowledge overlap.

    Is being just a "3D Artist" a thing? I figured it would be one or the other (char or environs). If so, I guess it wouldn't hurt to make some environmental pedestals for my characters, or some kind of background for them as well. And I'd definitely want to make the props for them if I went down this route anyhow.

    I guess I'm just paranoid that if I continue down the character path that I won't be able to find any job after graduation and have to go back to working minimum wage jobs, so that's influencing my thought pattern I guess.

    The school isn't really an issue in the fact though. I go to FIEA and we've basically been just making games for the past year (including working with producers and programmers), so it's been a pretty enlightening experience. I don't know why I brought it up.
  • Rurouni Strife
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    Rurouni Strife polycounter lvl 10
    I think most tech artists grow into that role-but I can't say for sure.

    What I can say is that whatever work you decide to do, you need to do it and stop thinking about it. You're falling into the "what do I do, maybe this or this I can't decide, holy crap it's now been 3 years since I graduated" over thinking mode that turns into a spiral and sinks people. If it helps, I dug your bat dude. It needs work and could be a bit higher poly and rendered with some newer engine stuff but you definitely should be able to do AAA character work after you spend the time on it.
  • CamWilkerson
    I think most tech artists grow into that role-but I can't say for sure.

    What I can say is that whatever work you decide to do, you need to do it and stop thinking about it. You're falling into the "what do I do, maybe this or this I can't decide, holy crap it's now been 3 years since I graduated" over thinking mode that turns into a spiral and sinks people. If it helps, I dug your bat dude. It needs work and could be a bit higher poly and rendered with some newer engine stuff but you definitely should be able to do AAA character work after you spend the time on it.

    It does help. But yeah, you're absolutely right. I definitely am over-thinking it. Thanks a ton, really. I just have to go sit down and do it. Thanks. :).
  • juniez
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    juniez polycounter lvl 10
    you can totally be a 3d generalist if you're up to it, but the issue is that if a studio is looking for an environment artist specifically, you'll be competing against people who've only focused on environment art and therefore are probably better at you at environment art. but there are a bunch of people who have done both and excelled at both at the same time
  • Target_Renegade
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    Target_Renegade polycounter lvl 11
    I think it's great that you have programming skills, they're more sought after in terms of Junior entry possibilities. A character artist will have to compete a lot more to get into the games industry, more than a programmer. Consider going deeper into the programming / tech side to get a foot in, then at least you'll have the chance to meet / make friends with professional character artists. As long as you put the effort in, you'll get nearer where you want to be.
  • haiddasalami
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    haiddasalami polycounter lvl 14
    Kwramm wrote: »
    Apart from that exception, I found a lot of studios are looking for experience, so it may be easier to get a first job as non TA and then slowly move into that role. Also, I think its a plus if a TA has worked in an art production position, because as TA you will support these people and should understand what they're doing and what their problems are (in a production setting that is).

    Agree with Kwramm about the fact most studio's are looking for experience from the interviews I had after I graduated. I think the one main reason I got the job here was that I could easily talk to an artist because I did art. Whatever you choose, just make your portfolio the best it can be. Though do note that if you want to be a character artist, the bar set is pretty high and crazy.
  • CamWilkerson
    Agree with Kwramm about the fact most studio's are looking for experience from the interviews I had after I graduated. I think the one main reason I got the job here was that I could easily talk to an artist because I did art. Whatever you choose, just make your portfolio the best it can be. Though do note that if you want to be a character artist, the bar set is pretty high and crazy.

    That's reassuring to know. One thing that FIEA has given me is experience working with different types of teams with different people when making games.

    When you say "pretty high and crazy", does that mean "unrealistic to shoot for given three months time"?
  • SecretPro
    When you say "pretty high and crazy", does that mean "unrealistic to shoot for given three months time"?

    Yes very unrealistic due to the volatile atmosphere, you are not competing with other students only, but also with other professionals that are coming off the constant layoff present in the industry.

    Most realistic situation for fresh graduates involves either freelancing or finding low end jobs and work on the portfolio during free time.
  • CamWilkerson
    SecretPro wrote: »
    Yes very unrealistic due to the volatile atmosphere, you are not competing with other students only, but also with other professionals that are coming off the constant layoff present in the industry.

    Most realistic situation for fresh graduates involves either freelancing or finding low end jobs and work on the portfolio during free time.

    Okay, that's fine. As long as I have work. What kind of portfolio pieces would help for one of these jobs? I don't know the first thing about freelancing so that's a really intimidating path for me.
  • DireWolf
    Best I can say is to not think too much right now, just pick 1 and spend your time working instead of making decision. I was in a similar situation, I quit my position as TD earlier this year and was thinking really hard what I wanted to do next. I knew I wanted to get back into artistic side of animation and I was highly inspired by many disciplines - environments, UE4, character sculpting, effects, Houdini, list goes on and on.

    I have to say I wasted almost 4 months just trying to make decision. Don't be like me. Just pick one, no question asked, and start working on it. Few months into it you'll be able to answer yourself if you can really progress in that path.

    If you want to do character, start sculpting right now. If you want to be tech artist, start scripting. Whatever you choose, stick to it for a while. Good luck :)
  • CamWilkerson
    DireWolf wrote: »
    Best I can say is to not think too much right now, just pick 1 and spend your time working instead of making decision. I was in a similar situation, I quit my position as TD earlier this year and was thinking really hard what I wanted to do next. I knew I wanted to get back into artistic side of animation and I was highly inspired by many disciplines - environments, UE4, character sculpting, effects, Houdini, list goes on and on.

    I have to say I wasted almost 4 months just trying to make decision. Don't be like me. Just pick one, no question asked, and start working on it. Few months into it you'll be able to answer yourself if you can really progress in that path.

    If you want to do character, start sculpting right now. If you want to be tech artist, start scripting. Whatever you choose, stick to it for a while. Good luck :)

    Heya, thanks man. I took your advice and I'm just going for it. I'll hopefully be posting some works for you guys to critique soon! :) Cheers
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Is it super hard to find a job as a character artist?

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128692


    To put it bluntly, there's likely more roster spots in the NFL than there are Character Artist positions.


    :/
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    JacqueChoi wrote: »
    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128692


    To put it bluntly, there's likely more roster spots in the NFL than there are Character Artist positions.


    :/

    Granted, you're counting studios with employees that post on polycount, it's hard to find solid numbers but there is about 600+ game studios in North America so you might be off by a couple thousand character positions.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Definitely a fair assessment.

    That said, a huge majority of those studios don't employ Character Artists.

    Many of those 600 are studios like Zynga, 2D studios, Flash studios, or focus on puzzle games. Or are indies that simply would go with a freelancer.

    I don't think it's a couple thousand at all.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    lol, maybe I shouldn't give an exact breakdown of my workplace. We've got a good amount of character artists for a studio that makes mobile games. I'm pretty sure Zynga has character positions.

    Take Clash of Clans for example - it has a pretty big roster of characters and they all are pre-rendered sprites, so they were modeled and/or sculpted in 3D.
  • SecretPro
    lol, maybe I shouldn't give an exact breakdown of my workplace. We've got a good amount of character artists for a studio that makes mobile games. I'm pretty sure Zynga has character positions.

    Take Clash of Clans for example - it has a pretty big roster of characters and they all are pre-rendered sprites, so they were modeled and/or sculpted in 3D.

    To put some facts on the table, the previous statement is correct, I also read a similar phrase somewhere else, you have a better chance of becoming a pro athlete than a character artist.

    Here is a glimpse at the jobs currently open, Zynga
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    The phrase "put some facts on the table" is not a substitute for actually putting facts on the table. JacqueChoi & my opinions are based on observations.
  • SecretPro
    The phrase "put some facts on the table" is not a substitute for actually putting facts on the table. JacqueChoi & my opinions are just opinions based on observations.

    Just though I voice it, since when people wants an advice is best to add more than just opinions. Better to be objective when someone is wondering how to go about making their next move, false info is never great in these situations
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    And I'm saying you haven't laid out any facts, your just throwing your opinion in as well. I've only worked professionally as an environment & character artist so what do I know? I won't argue anymore, I'll begrudgingly accept your accusation as one of the elite few :P
  • SecretPro
    I'm pretty sure Zynga has character positions.
    And I'm saying you haven't laid out any facts, your just throwing your opinion in as well
    I quoted you to provided that the statement is wrong, by leading to a prominent source. How am I not providing factual resources, when I stated something that is true according to that source, no character positions open at Zynga atm is a fact. That is not an opinion, I pulled a source and provided a notation to it.

    Now this is an opinion below, since I don't have sources of further evidence to prove it as factual
    So to bring it back on topic, as mentioned before I agree with this:
    To put it bluntly, there's likely more roster spots in the NFL than there are Character Artist positions.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    Jacque's survey was character positions total - not open positions. It also only listed 104 studios throughout the world - there are about 600+ in North America alone. The survey is further muddled by the title being "AAA character positions" but he counted Kingsisle (my former employer) on the list which most of you wouldn't consider AAA.

    So it's really a sample size of AAA developers that also happen to be a member of Polycount.

    anyway

    As far as being a generalist, in my opinion that's another role you evolve into like a tech artist. It's not being kinda good at a bunch of disciplines, it's being great at bunch of disciplines.

    If you like environments as much as characters, sure go for it. If you hate making environments than it's not the easy way in people make it sound like.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    There are 32 NFL teams.
    Rosters are 53 players per team.

    1696 NFL Roster positions.

    I don't think it's a very far stretch to think there is a comparable level of positions open between Character Artists, and the NFL.



    And yeah, I'm not counting generalists.

    :P
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    Wait a minute, this is just an roundabout way to compare yourself to a NFL player!

    I'm pretty sure I have a free month of linkedin premium membership, I think it will let do a more advanced search to see the number of currently employed character artists in the game industry. I will check it tonight.
  • CamWilkerson
    I'm too skinny to play in the NFL.
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