SA_22 - Thanks man, ya definately putting a whip in her hand.
Master of the fork - Thanks alot man, Ya I like the idea of lightening the seams I might go in after posing and give it a try.
Ok so here is her relaxed pose, What do you guys think of this, I'm getting ready to setup the final presentation of this piece. Also what do u guys think about the lighting choices?
Looks good, I like the overall design. I would suggest spending a bit more time 'beating up' the outfit, so it doesn't look so shiny and new. I would also suggest doing some more work on the hands...they look a little unfinished compared to the rest of the model.
At first i wasn't so sure if i like the design but now where everything comes together i really dig it. I think you did a great job and this could be a great costume for an upcoming batman movie. Really well done
Beautiful work mate! I think you should play around with the lighting some more, see what else you can come up with (Joe Wilson did a nice write up on character lighting for the older version of toolbag, but the principles still appy http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/character-lighting definitely worth checking out if you havent already seen it).
For the pose, she's looking a bit unbalanced and could be pushed further. Here's a quick paint over to show as an example.
afisher's balance gif is pretty spot on, try doing some shoulder/hip rotation to get a more balanced and interesting flow to her pose.
Once you add the whip in, I think that will help the hands feeling static. The hand not holding the whip, just some slight finger bending so they all aren't matching each other would help as well.
elGuapo - Thanks man, I wanted the beating up to not be to much but subtle. I worked the hands abit and posed them which I think really bring them to life.
Tits - Thanks alot man Looking forward to what you do next as well
Crazy_pixel - Thanks alot man
Rumkugel - Thats a great gif, I might stick with pose I have for now but that gif is going in my inspiration folder
Xaragoth - Thansk alot man, I dont know if i'm going to do the action pose right away Im gonna take a break from this for a bit then come back to it.
Kustomzero - Thanks man, Zack snyder can gimme a call anytime lol.
heboltz3 - Thanks man, appreciate it.
Slosh - Thanks man, im still learning so i think its important to take all the crits in as i can and learn as much as I can
Rion411 - Thanks man, yes you did mention beautiful-ness
afisher - Thansk alot man, Thanks for the paintover very helpful, and Ya i'm still learning lighting so that link was very helpful check the update in the final image i hope I nailed the lighting and new to lighting.
Scythe - Thanks man
Artstream - Ya that gif was very help[ful, I agree with the whip and hands and the final is in the update below.
r4ptur3 - Thanks man
Fomori - Thanks
JacqueChoi - Thanks man, Huge fan
Xaragoth - Thanks, update below
Hello Everyone I'm Finnally done my first finished portfolio character Im calling this done but If you guys notice anything please drop a crit especially on the lighting which is something im still learning. I want to thank everyone for helping me with my first portfolio piece Its been a amazing learning experience and I cant wait to take this knowledge on to my next character. Its been a crazy journey getting here and here is the final
I'm thought I did, doesnt Toolbag 2 automatically use PBR? I turned the background image to color rather than the image in the background but I still used the skylights to light the scene, So I was under the assumption that toolbag automatically uses PBR?
Slosh - wat about the images made you think it was'nt pbr? I'm under the assumption it is because i thought marmoset toolbag automatically uses pbr, im really curious and confused.
Xaragoth - Thanks alot man Rocksteady can give me a call anyday lol
Slosh - wat about the images made you think it was'nt pbr? I'm under the assumption it is because i thought marmoset toolbag automatically uses pbr, im really curious and confused.
You're right, Marmoset is a PBR engine. I was referring to your maps. You have the basic setup of diffuse, normal, spec, gloss whereas a more accurate PBR setup is albedo, normal, roughness, and metallicity. Just curious why you didn't use the newer setup. Not a big deal but people tend to look for that these days...
You're right, Marmoset is a PBR engine. I was referring to your maps. You have the basic setup of diffuse, normal, spec, gloss whereas a more accurate PBR setup is albedo, normal, roughness, and metallicity. Just curious why you didn't use the newer setup. Not a big deal but people tend to look for that these days...
GLOSS/ROUGHNESS:
these terms are interchangeable, all they do is determine the "microsurface" of your material. neither is more or less "pbr" than the other.
DIFFUSE/ALBEDO:
these terms are also largely interchangeable, the reason why they're named differently is because an oldschool diffuse map will typically contain some baked in light information (diffuse lighting) and renaming it to albedo gives it a kinda... clean break from the old workflow. you can still call it diffuse/colour/albedo/whatever, but for PBR you just skip the baked in light info part.
SPECULAR/METALNESS:
Specular, or reflectivity, is generally speaking more accurate than metalness. Why? Simple... Because with a specular map you have direct control over ALL reflective values of a surface, whereas with a metalness map, non-metals are given a blanket reflectance value which is accurate enough for most people to work with, but is absolutely not more accurate than a spec/reflectivity map. The biggest reason metalness has taken off, is because it simplifies the workflow, and allows people to pack their textures better (ie: have gloss/metalness/cavity in a single texture).
Yeah, there's some common misconceptions out there, that if you're not using a specific type of input or a specific shader model, it isn't PBR. This isn't really accurate, the points Lee made above are a good start to sort of squash some of those myths, but take a look at the Marmoset PBR tutorials for greater detail:
In addition to what Lee said, diffuse and albedo maps can vary further due to the fact that when using the metalness reflectivity model, your albedo map acts as essentially a diffuse map for non-metals, and a specular map for metals. Again, the metalness workflow is actually less accurate, not more, its popularity is due to its texture memory savings and how it potentially simplifies the workflow moreso than accuracy.
Kend, she's looking great, I've been lurking in this thread for a while, glad to see you've finished her up.
Slosh - I just named them Diffuse and specular Etc. Rather than albedo and Metalness and such, Gir's and Earthquakes posts clear it up below.
Fomori - Thanks man
Goeddy - Thanks man, maybe its her facial expression or the reference, either way im onboard with the face and its time for me to jump onto another project finally LOL
87roach - Thanks Man
ljsketch - Thanks man
Almighty_gir - Thanks for clearing that up I was very confused by that because I thought I didnt have the right setup or something I read tutorials thatsaid albedo is just the diffuse but I didnt know if he was referring to something else.
Earthquake - Thanks alot man Thanks for the links as well very fascinating and useful. I fell for one of those misconceptions myself lol thanks for u and gir clearing that up.
This is a beautiful model, but I think your pressentation shots are really lacking.
for starters the background colors is the same as the character, wich makes it blend into the background.
your logo is really big and takes up a lot of space.
also there are some really distracting jagged pixelated white lines around it which makes it look like you copy-pasted it from a white background and didn't bother to clean it up properly.
I would really do another take on the final renders, try simplifying things, maybe just make a small banner in the top/bottom with all the details. that way you can put all the info on the same possision on all the renders, so the logo isnt just squeesed in wherever you had some space over.
sory if Im being harsh on you, but the graphic designer inside of me gets angry when I see such beautifull 3D not being pressented at its best.
Yea, the subtle differences aren't a big deal. I just noticed it looked like you had AO baked into your diffuse and it seems more and more, that is going away in PBR pipelines as well as using a "specular" map which a lot of the times is a "color specular" map as opposed to the simplified metallicity black and white map. It seems the newer method is a bit more physically accurate since color spec is not. Nothing crazy important, just an observation about your maps Kend. The work, however is well executed so no complaints from me there...nicely done.
lotet - Ya I agree with the points you made I'll have to go back and change it up a bit. First time presenting work, I kind of like the warm purple in the background but I see wat u mean.
Paulp - Thanks man
Slosh - Thanks man, Good point about the AO I didnt think about that and the specular color.
Yea, the subtle differences aren't a big deal. I just noticed it looked like you had AO baked into your diffuse and it seems more and more, that is going away in PBR pipelines as well as using a "specular" map which a lot of the times is a "color specular" map as opposed to the simplified metallicity black and white map. It seems the newer method is a bit more physically accurate since color spec is not. Nothing crazy important, just an observation about your maps Kend. The work, however is well executed so no complaints from me there...nicely done.
Its sort of a common misconception, but the metalness workflow isn't any more accurate, its actually less accurate, because all non-metals get a fixed value of about 4% reflectivity, whereas in reality non-metals are generally in the 2-8% range or so. Cryengine and Unity 5 both use full color spec (U5 gives you the option to use either workflow) for their PBR setups, along with some other engines as well.
The metalness workflow forces you to use a fixed, colorless value for non-metals, which makes sense, but is only really more accurate if artists are making art content that doesn't make sense from a PBR standpoint. As long as you understand which values to use and why, full color spec maps provide better accuracy and flexibility, at the cost of slightly more VRAM usage and more room for user error.
The metalness workflow has some other drawbacks as well, like artifacts at effect transition points that you don't get with a full color albedo/spec map.
The AO point is a good point, ao should generally be loaded as a separate map with either workflow so the shader can do more intelligent stuff with it, like only mask ambient, and not direct light.
Replies
Master of the fork - Thanks alot man, Ya I like the idea of lightening the seams I might go in after posing and give it a try.
Ok so here is her relaxed pose, What do you guys think of this, I'm getting ready to setup the final presentation of this piece. Also what do u guys think about the lighting choices?
I really love how she turns out, the face looks very alive
Can't wait to see what you will do next also!
Very nice work, excellent silhouette and beautiful face. Good Job
Pick one of the frames
i specially like it when she does pull one foot over the floor.
meow
I think her face could use a little bit more expression, but otherwise I really have no idea what you could do to make her look better
The pose is killer, I am blown away every time I open this up again, cheers dude!
For the pose, she's looking a bit unbalanced and could be pushed further. Here's a quick paint over to show as an example.
Once you add the whip in, I think that will help the hands feeling static. The hand not holding the whip, just some slight finger bending so they all aren't matching each other would help as well.
Can't wait to see the final!
The eyes are awesome.
Tits - Thanks alot man Looking forward to what you do next as well
Crazy_pixel - Thanks alot man
Rumkugel - Thats a great gif, I might stick with pose I have for now but that gif is going in my inspiration folder
Xaragoth - Thansk alot man, I dont know if i'm going to do the action pose right away Im gonna take a break from this for a bit then come back to it.
Kustomzero - Thanks man, Zack snyder can gimme a call anytime lol.
heboltz3 - Thanks man, appreciate it.
Slosh - Thanks man, im still learning so i think its important to take all the crits in as i can and learn as much as I can
Rion411 - Thanks man, yes you did mention beautiful-ness
afisher - Thansk alot man, Thanks for the paintover very helpful, and Ya i'm still learning lighting so that link was very helpful check the update in the final image i hope I nailed the lighting and new to lighting.
Scythe - Thanks man
Artstream - Ya that gif was very help[ful, I agree with the whip and hands and the final is in the update below.
r4ptur3 - Thanks man
Fomori - Thanks
JacqueChoi - Thanks man, Huge fan
Xaragoth - Thanks, update below
Hello Everyone I'm Finnally done my first finished portfolio character
Thanks for posting your textures and topology, much appreciated for learning!
Xaragoth - Thanks alot man
doomprodigy - Thanks man
You're right, Marmoset is a PBR engine. I was referring to your maps. You have the basic setup of diffuse, normal, spec, gloss whereas a more accurate PBR setup is albedo, normal, roughness, and metallicity. Just curious why you didn't use the newer setup. Not a big deal but people tend to look for that these days...
nice job on the eyes, the pose and the lighting.
GLOSS/ROUGHNESS:
these terms are interchangeable, all they do is determine the "microsurface" of your material. neither is more or less "pbr" than the other.
DIFFUSE/ALBEDO:
these terms are also largely interchangeable, the reason why they're named differently is because an oldschool diffuse map will typically contain some baked in light information (diffuse lighting) and renaming it to albedo gives it a kinda... clean break from the old workflow. you can still call it diffuse/colour/albedo/whatever, but for PBR you just skip the baked in light info part.
SPECULAR/METALNESS:
Specular, or reflectivity, is generally speaking more accurate than metalness. Why? Simple... Because with a specular map you have direct control over ALL reflective values of a surface, whereas with a metalness map, non-metals are given a blanket reflectance value which is accurate enough for most people to work with, but is absolutely not more accurate than a spec/reflectivity map. The biggest reason metalness has taken off, is because it simplifies the workflow, and allows people to pack their textures better (ie: have gloss/metalness/cavity in a single texture).
http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-theory
http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-practice
In addition to what Lee said, diffuse and albedo maps can vary further due to the fact that when using the metalness reflectivity model, your albedo map acts as essentially a diffuse map for non-metals, and a specular map for metals. Again, the metalness workflow is actually less accurate, not more, its popularity is due to its texture memory savings and how it potentially simplifies the workflow moreso than accuracy.
Kend, she's looking great, I've been lurking in this thread for a while, glad to see you've finished her up.
Fomori - Thanks man
Goeddy - Thanks man, maybe its her facial expression or the reference, either way im onboard with the face and its time for me to jump onto another project finally LOL
87roach - Thanks Man
ljsketch - Thanks man
Almighty_gir - Thanks for clearing that up I was very confused by that because I thought I didnt have the right setup or something I read tutorials thatsaid albedo is just the diffuse but I didnt know if he was referring to something else.
Earthquake - Thanks alot man
for starters the background colors is the same as the character, wich makes it blend into the background.
your logo is really big and takes up a lot of space.
also there are some really distracting jagged pixelated white lines around it which makes it look like you copy-pasted it from a white background and didn't bother to clean it up properly.
I would really do another take on the final renders, try simplifying things, maybe just make a small banner in the top/bottom with all the details. that way you can put all the info on the same possision on all the renders, so the logo isnt just squeesed in wherever you had some space over.
sory if Im being harsh on you, but the graphic designer inside of me gets angry when I see such beautifull 3D not being pressented at its best.
Paulp - Thanks man
Slosh - Thanks man, Good point about the AO I didnt think about that and the specular color.
Scizz - Thanks man
Would love to see a different facial expression though (default staring is kinda boring).
G-saviour18 - Thanks man
Pastelspirit - Thanks man
Its sort of a common misconception, but the metalness workflow isn't any more accurate, its actually less accurate, because all non-metals get a fixed value of about 4% reflectivity, whereas in reality non-metals are generally in the 2-8% range or so. Cryengine and Unity 5 both use full color spec (U5 gives you the option to use either workflow) for their PBR setups, along with some other engines as well.
The metalness workflow forces you to use a fixed, colorless value for non-metals, which makes sense, but is only really more accurate if artists are making art content that doesn't make sense from a PBR standpoint. As long as you understand which values to use and why, full color spec maps provide better accuracy and flexibility, at the cost of slightly more VRAM usage and more room for user error.
The metalness workflow has some other drawbacks as well, like artifacts at effect transition points that you don't get with a full color albedo/spec map.
The AO point is a good point, ao should generally be loaded as a separate map with either workflow so the shader can do more intelligent stuff with it, like only mask ambient, and not direct light.
Im definately going to have to make the AO separate see the difference.