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Low poly hand painted sword

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KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
I decided to take a crack at a low poly hand-painted prop and here's my WIP. I really want to get better at making hand painted props, so any crits, tips, and comments are greatly appreciated.

Note: I know the UVs are rather unoptimized right now. Let's say if I were to redo the UVs at 512 x 1024, how should I go about maximizing the UV space if doing so creates stretching?


Tri count: 352

UDK Shot:

swordrenderudk2.jpg

Everything else:

swordWireRender.jpg

SwordWires.jpg

SwordDiff.jpg

SwordSpecJPG.jpg

SwordEmissive.jpg

SwordUVs.jpg

Replies

  • n88tr
    could tighten up the handle wrapping and darken it a bit
  • sybrix
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    sybrix polycounter lvl 12
    What's up with all the wasted UV space in the maps?

    It's coming along nicely. I think it would look a lot better with a darker color for the handle, and it looks like there's some stretching or something going on with the handle wrapping. Is the red parts metal? If so the coloring needs more contrast and popping highlights to give it that shiny metal look.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for the crits, guys. :D

    In regards to the UVs: Should I re-pack the UVs at a 2:1 ratio or should I remain at the same ratio, but break up the UV pieces and maximize them to optimize UV space?
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Would a layout like this be more reasonable?

    woot.jpg
  • gsokol
    Would a layout like this be more reasonable?

    Yup.

    I really like the color on the blades. The middle part seems a little noisy though, with all of the red stuff going on.
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 10
    I think you need to push the use of colour in this piece, lets take a look at a similar style weapon from the masters... blizzard..

    dkquestswordpurple.jpg

    As you can see, like your sword, this has subtle glowing parts and an ornamental blade. There are two light sources, the sky (white) and the colour of the glow effect (purple)which effects the hue of all the colours on the sword. The thinner part of the sword has shadowing on it, which is a very slight purple tint, as with the stock of the sword too. the base colours vary, but all the LIGHTING stays purple in some way. The sky (white) is effecting the parts furthest from the purple glowing letters on the blade, like the edges of the blade or tips of the handle. This helps the painting "pop" and helps define material types.
    The painting technique itself, if you look, you can see there are a strong mix of very smooth and subtle gradients and sharp edges. The sharp edges also change in diameter a lot to give a subtle wearing effect.
    Think about the size of your weapon too. On the blizzard reference pic there is small detail, but never too close together or too small for it to read. big, fat and sharp edged damage, painted on the hard edges of the model to help break up the lines a little.

    What strikes me the most about your current sword WIP is the lack of light direction and colour consistancy. Those little blue glowing parts need to be lighting edges near to them and deep desaturated blues for shadowing would be great (the new version of the grip you painted is looking nearer to this but needs the lighting pushed).
    I'm with Gsokol on the text on the sword, it's just adding noise right now, some other pattern which is easier on the eye would be nice, if not, just something simple to keep it clean.
    If you are struggling with the whole light direction thing, just go into a 3D app, make some random shaped object with lots of variation and stick a point light at the top of it, see how much that light effects everything on the model in different intensities. Observation is key!
    Get the light sources and a decent pallete sorted out, once you've got a good flow of things, then go through and tighten up all the details.

    But hey, i'm no expert at this either :)
    UV map looking much better without all the wasted space too.

    Edit: this pic shows lighting from a stronger glow effect:
    wowa195Mv1fELk55q.jpg it's incased inside the middle of the swords tip, but still effects the colour of the top part of the handle.
  • linkov
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    linkov polycounter lvl 10
    I'm not that good with words, so I made a picture

    shad_help.jpg

    And regarding your UV question: this is probably not the smartest thing to do, but whenever I need my UVs to fit rectangle (512*256, 128*256 etc.), I'm usually doing my UVs in 1:1 ratio, but then I place my UV islands into desired rectangle (within 1:1 space), render UV template, crop that image in photoshop to size I need, apply it as a texture and then go back to unwrap and scale/distort my UVs, so they fit this template.

    sounds complicated, and perhaps there is better solutions, but its only couple minutes really, so I don't bother to look for another way :poly136:
  • Wells
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    Wells polycounter lvl 18
    awesome advice in here

    just wanted to chime in and say, with the amount of information on your texture you could easily halve the size and not lose anything. that large a sheet for this style of diffuse is o-o-o-o-overkill
  • Jungsik
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    Jungsik polycounter lvl 6
    thats some great feedback linkov :D
  • Gorman
    Bulk it out, there is practically no definition between the blade and guard at the moment. Detach the blade from the guard and you can probably save some polys by separating the two parts, and get some more definition.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Thank you guys so much for these awesome crits and tips! You've given a goldmine of info that I can reference for this prop as well as future hand painted props. I greatly appreciate it. :D

    Here's some corrections to the geometry:

    UpdatedGeo1.jpg

    @Gorman: What exactly do you mean by "bulk it out?" Make the guard and the blade more distinct from each other? Something like this?

    BulkRenderguess1.jpg
  • Gorman
    Yeah, it is a bit tough in your design since the area where the guard has some detail that overlaps on to the blade (I would say "habaki", but I guess that is only for katanas :P), but it would be practically impossible for the red metal to merge completely with the blade. Try separating the red guard's topology and the blade's, and make it clear that the two material are separate. If you were just to look at the silhouette or untextured model, then you can't see any transition at all!

    But, that is just a suggestion :)
  • sybrix
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    sybrix polycounter lvl 12
    UV map looking much better!

    Awesome advice in here. World of Warcraft swords are a pretty good reference point for low poly swords with epic hand-painted textures.

    Here's a small nit-pick I just noticed. Be careful with evenly spaced and symmetrical damage. On the blade you have 2 nicks directly across from each other, and the three on the left side of the blade are too evenly spaced apart. It looks too calculated/obvious. I suggest making it more "random" looking and varied.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    @Sybrix: Thank you for bringing the symmetrical damage to my attention. I've actually looked at a number of WoW weapons and noticed symmetrical damage which was my reasoning for adding it, but upon further thought in addition to your suggestion, I'm going to be varying up the damage (asymmetrical) for the sake of portfolio. Thanks for the crit. :)

    P.S: Please be as nitpicky as you want to. These are the kinds of crits I need. :D


    Texture update:

    Handle wraps WIP

    HandlewrapWIP.jpg


    Here's another iteration of the blade/hilt silhouette

    The first iteration is the one I'm currently working on. The second iteration is a reworked to give it a bit more of a traditional sword look with a bulkier forte.

    Geocompare.jpg

    Silhoucompare.jpg

    I'm honestly willing to work with either one. However, the second iteration creates a little more room to work with. I just wanted to get some feedback on that before I continue fixing up the textures on the blade. :)
  • linkov
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    linkov polycounter lvl 10
    Shad0wForce, that hilt look better. You can vary thickness of highlights and shadows to make it look more interesting.

    Also, turn off viewport shading. I'm usually paint my textures in 'flat' mode. If it look good without any lighting, it will look good with shading too. The reason for this, is that hand-painted 'style' (most of the time) implies a lot of baked lighting directly in your diffuse texture. So basically, while you painting, you need to see where your painted shadows and highlights are. Hardware shading, especially with dark or completely black ambient color won't let you do it. Your final result should look good in both dark and bright environments. And while in shadows your sword may look fine, somewhere in hand-painted daylight it may turn to be completely flat.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    @linkov: Thanks for the crits. I'm going to work more on the hilt and blade next.

    Texture update!

    Sword1WIP2.jpg


    Crits/Comments are appreciated. :)
  • linkov
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    linkov polycounter lvl 10
    Looking better, here is another overpaint. Please don't take this literally, this is merely one direction you might go from here, although I don't mind at all.

    theme_help.jpg
  • Don Karnage
    I prefer your paintover version far more, especially your new grip and that improved shadow gradient on the blade.
    Maybe consider extending the pharoah headdress to where the blade indents, and have the extruding horns be that naturally thinner part:

    unledwu.png
  • Carl Brannstrom
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for the crits and paintovers, guys. :)

    @Linkov: Great suggestions. I might play around with the Egyptian theme. :D I'm still trying to get the hang of lighting + hand painted metals.

    @DonKarnage: Great suggestion as well. I'll extend the design on the "headdress". :)
  • linkov
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    linkov polycounter lvl 10
    I'm still trying to get the hang of lighting + hand painted metals.

    read this: http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm
    its explaining a lot of what you need to know.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Been busy with school lately. Made some time to work more on this prop. Here's my latest update:

    SwordRenderforCrit.jpg

    SwordDiffuseUV.jpg

    Crits and comments are greatly appreciated. :)
  • megalmn2000
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    megalmn2000 polycounter lvl 13
    The blade looks better. I would put more contrast on the handle of the sword, it looks flat compare to the rest of the sword. Like linkov just draw, add volume to it. :)
  • Gannon
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    Gannon interpolator
    I agree with Megalmn2000, Did a quick paint over on the handle and hilt to illustrate and I feel like it pops a little more.

    •Pushed the dark on the bottom of the hilt and popped the purple stripes with a darker edge. Added a slightly higher highlight across the ridge of the hilt as well. Also added a nick on it that could probably be a little larger for a little character.

    •The handle I just pushed the dark along the side of the straps with some deep purple I sampled from the dark spots of the blade and then brightened the end of the handle and popped the highlights a little harder on corners.

    •I like the blade personally, I think you really nailed it with your last pass.

    Great job, just push those darks a little harder to push that depth and pop those high lights to really make it shine.

    paintover.gif
  • Impala88
    could you show how it looks with the red down the middle of the sword that had the symbols on it? i think that with the lighting effects you have now, all that nice blue, would look pretty sweet and it'd carry the colour of the hilt and handle all the way to the tip better imo. I also think it'd look pretty nice if the blade was a bit longer and it didn' taper inwards towards the end, i.e. have it the same shape as the texture UV.

    Edit: also noticed the handle wrapping seems a bit large around it, might be better to reduce the texture down and tile it a couple of times, but still keep the UVs the same, as the section where the handle meets the hilt could do with some soft shadows.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for the crits, guys. :)

    I'll definitely make the handle wraps pop out better and add some highlights on the guard.

    @impala: I don't know if I want to change the overall shape of the blade at this point, BUT I could possibly to a separate iteration of it and adjust the texture to fit it. I'll try to incorporate some of your other crits. I can definitely add the subtle shadows and make the blue running up the blade more apparent. :)
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Here's an update.

    SwordUpdateRender-1.jpg

    Sword1Diffuse-1.jpg

    Crits/comments are appreciated. :)
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    Very nice updates to the handle and guard! ^_^ This sword has come a long way.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks! Doing whatever it takes to improve my work and have fun with it in the process.
  • ranger_park
    its looking great! i still feel like the wraps around the handle are too flat.
  • felipefrango
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    felipefrango polycounter lvl 9
    This has improved a LOT since the first post, man, congrats.
  • jmt
    Woah, this thing has come a really long way. Good job.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks, guys. :)

    I was wondering about what would be a good way to render out hand painted props for presentation. I've noticed that a lot of hand painted artists have rendered their props with an outline, so I gave 3DSMax's "Ink n Paint" material a go. I just wanted to get some feedback on the render and presentation. Crits on anything else are more than welcome. :)

    SwordRenderforPortPcount.jpg
  • linkov
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    linkov polycounter lvl 10
    Not so bad after all :thumbup:

    There is two things you could change if you want. Red stripes on these 'horn' thingies could reflect a bit less of that green light. And second, grip is highlighted only from one side. Its not a big deal, but kinda strange.

    As for rendering, there is always 'flat' viewport render + PS outline

    ps. There is always room for improvements, I can actually see more than just two things to do better, but I would suggest moving on :)
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    This is fantastic!

    Generally with handpainted props, you'll want to put the self illumination to around 50-75%.

    Also (personal preference) to get the image sharper looking, use Catmul-Rom, with no texture filtering in the render.
  • D4V1DC
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    D4V1DC polycounter lvl 18
    Whoa this came out great, going from the start of this thread you've learned quite a bit.
    Congrats!
  • Ikosan
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    I agree, that's some nice presentation! :D
  • Neox
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    Neox veteran polycounter
    JacqueChoi wrote: »
    Also (personal preference) to get the image sharper looking, use Catmul-Rom, with no texture filtering in the render.

    which is pretty much the same as unsharpen mask in photoshop, a different approach without a sharpen filter would be to set the area sampler to 1 pixel width. I pefer this as catmul rom often enough creates "outlines" around your object.

    Nice sword!
  • Eduram
    @Shad0wForce I like how you make the texture, but i would like to see more dirt, and the skull has a lot of the blue light. but i love the concept. i love how you make the skull don't get me wrong, "i can't do not even a face", and the texture is really good. but my only question is, is thise sword for a game like WoW? because it is, its really good.

    @linkov: you sound, well you describe stuff like you know all this, is someone that has alot of experiance. and sorry for my typos, English is not my first language. but anyways i like the way you describe and explain his model. i would like from both of you give me some feed backs from my model.
  • Eduram
    and nother question did you send your sword into Zbrush or mudbox?
  • ericdigital
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    ericdigital polycounter lvl 13
    The progress you made with this is awesome :)

    Great feedback from people and great outcome. Good work man!
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for the feedback, everyone. :)

    @linkov: Thank you for the crits and rendering tips. I can go back and make some quick adjustments for the sake of portfolio, otherwise I'm ready to move onto other projects. Thanks for all your crits along the way. I really appreciate it.

    @Jacques Choi: I could try re-rendering the prop at 50-75% self illumination. it would be enough to add shadow and allow a lighting setup. heheh.

    @Eduram: Thanks for the crits. I was going for a WoW or MMO-style weapon. Dirt could be added, but I don't think it goes with the style I'm going for. I didn't use any sort of sculpting or normal mapping for this prop; I'm just using 1 diffuse map.
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