Macbook Pro Retina for 3D work? Fan noise?
Hey everyone!
I've been thinking about buying a new device to work on-the-go.
Right now I'm trying out the Wacom Companion, as I'm mainly a 2D Concept Artist, but the fan noise is killing it for me.
They are always on, even when just browsing the web. A simple zBrush model already makes the fans go crazy to a degree where people get annoyed in a quiet room.
So I'm thinking about actually spending some more money to get a longer lasting device like the recent Macbook Pro Retina 15" (with dedicated graphic card).
I know that there are more powerful windows laptops out there but their screens, build quality or fan noise is either lacking.
Is there anyone who uses a late 2013 / 2014 Macbook Pro model?
- Does zBrush still have the bug that it makes the Macbook fan go crazy because it only uses one core? Or did Apple fix that bug (as it was bug on their side)?
- How do the fans in general behave? Most of the times quiet or do they turn up easily? I know that heavy tasks like rendering or compelx scenes are going to push the noise up
Thanks!
I've been thinking about buying a new device to work on-the-go.
Right now I'm trying out the Wacom Companion, as I'm mainly a 2D Concept Artist, but the fan noise is killing it for me.
They are always on, even when just browsing the web. A simple zBrush model already makes the fans go crazy to a degree where people get annoyed in a quiet room.
So I'm thinking about actually spending some more money to get a longer lasting device like the recent Macbook Pro Retina 15" (with dedicated graphic card).
I know that there are more powerful windows laptops out there but their screens, build quality or fan noise is either lacking.
Is there anyone who uses a late 2013 / 2014 Macbook Pro model?
- Does zBrush still have the bug that it makes the Macbook fan go crazy because it only uses one core? Or did Apple fix that bug (as it was bug on their side)?
- How do the fans in general behave? Most of the times quiet or do they turn up easily? I know that heavy tasks like rendering or compelx scenes are going to push the noise up
Thanks!
Replies
speaking from experience with pre-retina MBP's i would personally avoid dedicated graphic chips. should be uninteresting for 2D work (and zbrush) anway. macbooks with those are known to be prone to GPU failures, not just the widely reported 2011 series AMD GPU desaster (victim myself here). apparently not entirely uncommon on other laptops, too.
also the GPU switching doesn't work so well. i know i was much happier with an earlier macbook that only had the intel graphics. GPU is the biggest issue on mine.
an MBP running on onboard intel graphics runs amazingly cool. with the dedicated GPU it noticeably warms up.
I heard it's running fine on Windows though, so Bootcamp might be a option. Even though switching all the time would be annoying as well.
So basically zBrush is unusable right now if you want the notebook to be very quiet?
Any update in sight?
Also unsure about not taking the dedicated graphics card. I understand your points but I'm sure there are programs who would benefit from it. I'm more likely wanting to have more power then less as I could shut down the dedicated one if not needed.
I haven't heard much issues about the graphics card in the current gen actually.
Any more opinions about this?
Oh and awesome work Thomas! Awesome colorful style. Really digging the stuff on your website!
As thomas notes, any laptop with a GPU is going to have heating issues, so if fan noise bothers you, and you're not doing high end 3d stuff or running game engines, stick with an integrated card.
- Which makes it easier on the fans to vent while keeping it cooler overall.
Those batteries really heat up quickly, making it difficult to keep them cool
Edit: I also have smcFanControl on my mac, so that I can have manual control of the fans.
Do you have the first Gen MBP 13" Retina or a quite new one as people report that the new models around late 2013 perform much better heat wise?
I don't mind the fans kicking in with much load, but I can't stand if the device is having a load annoying fan behaviour while just doing some sketching or simple 3D blockmeshing.
Do programs like Maya, Max, vRay or Vue benefit from a dedicated GPU or are they CPU focused as well? Just in case I would get more into these programs one day.
Thanks a lot man!
StephanVyas: I don't think you can remove a Macbook's battery because of the unibody. Otherwise it would be an option.
as for GPU power on the MBP look for 3D benchmarks. i think the newer integrated stuff from intel is actually quite capable and should handle things like photoshop GPU acceleration with ease. don't expect wonders from the discrete GPU of the macbooks either. it is obviously the faster option but in my experience noticeably not a match for even a midrange desktop model.
maya and max most definitely benefit from having that feature though.
btw if you intend to run the MBP hooked up to external screens then that will only be possible through the discrete GPU on models that have one.
@aesir: Well, you could also make your destop PC silent which would be cheaper and better in the long run. Or do you need portability?
@thomasp: You're more than welcome!
Does that mean that only the models with a dedicated GPU can power a second screen? I had in mind of hooking it up to a second screen sometimes.
Either a second screen or my 22HD. Depending on the situation and where I'm at.
Do you want to have it super quiet while rendering as well?
Just checked and saw that the configuration without a dedicated graphics card would only be 100$ less for me. Is it really worth not taking dedicated one for such little less money?
I really like the Intel card by looking up a few reviews.
But it's still only a additional 100$ to get a dedidacted card in there as well.
I could turn the dedicated card off if not needed so it would still stay cool. Or am I wrong here in terms of the buildup of the system?
I am a newbie so my models rarely get above 2mil poly's in ZBrush.
MBP's regardless of GPU option will be able to power a second (and third?) screen. what i meant was that if you go with a dedicated GPU model you can ONLY connect external screens through that, so not really feasible to disable the discrete GPU should you not want to use it.
on mine i have to jank out the monitor cable and use a utility called gfxCardStatus to force integrated graphics. then i'm restricted to the internal screen only.
anyway, just wanted to highlight originally that the MBP has a bit of a history with failing GPU's in various models, apple being tricky when it comes to hardware recalls and that the switching between GPU's doesn't work so great either. so this could be a future hardware problem avoided if you can live with the performance hit.
when you shop for a macbook don't forget to check out the BTO options in the apple store. you can get faster CPU's and more storage than the stock choices. if you want to dual boot into windows, make sure you get an SSD that is large enough for both OS'es and user data.
can't buy many after-market SSD's either so it's crucial to get the right size from the start now.
Now I really have to chose between the integrated or dedicated card.
I think I'll probably go with the dedicated one as it's just 100$ more and when I connect a second screen, I'm most likely at a stationary place so heat and noise doesn't concern me as much, as long it stays "quiet" when I'm at someone's else place.
Really want this to be a long-term investment so it would be a shame if I would be limited very early when I become eager to try out new programs.
I chatted with a friend though and he doesn't have any problems with the newest Retina Macbook and zBrush. The problem seems to be fixed.
It's a Mac. You'll get angry when you find out that the next year's integrated card (which doesn't drain battery like mad under Windows) is almost as fast as your own model's battery draining, hot running, fan whirring dedicated card
Buying a cheap ass Dell desktop with a good CPU is a better investment if you don't need to be mobile. I dropped 700 USD on a Studio XPS and then kept upgrading it for 4 years with RAM, SSD, newer GPUs. In the end it would still outperform my 2010 15" MBP for 3D work.
What do you guys think about going with a more powerful windows laptop instead?
A german vendor has the Clevo P651SG (Mysn XMG-P505 Pro) for the same price as the Macbook with waaay better hardware.
15,6" (39,6 cm) Full HD (1920
heck even photoshop seems better on windows - more reliable that is.
i agree with the other posters pointing out that a laptop is not really a longterm investment and also generally not up to the performance levels of a desktop machine.
for rendering i would think that doing that regularly with any laptop will cause a premature death from component failure due to overheating. these cases are just too tight to vent properly.
as for the PC laptop - just check it out. build quality, weight, screen, battery life, noise and not to forget how well the trackpad works. specs are nice on paper at least.
if you are not going to be really working on the go (maya or photoshop with palettes open - no fun in 15 inch for sure) but want a machine you can hook up to screens and tablets at home and still take to classes, a 13 inch machine might be more interesting to you - they're quite a bit more portable but don't necessarily sacrifice performance.
btw. lukas you mentioned that the zbrush fain noise issue has been resolved. would bee interesting to know which version of OSX is running on that machine.
would it be 10.10.1 by any chance?
I can't say these issues are typical with all the models that Sager/Clevo sells, but you get what you pay for, and if you're sensitive to system noise, I would recommend almost anything but a Sager/Clevo laptop, as poor quality fans and poor fan profiles is a common issue if you research this brand. On full blast my Sager fans sounded like an airplane taking off, while the MPB even at full has a much quieter, and more pleasant noise.
Thinking about the way of using it I'll probably use it as my main "work pc", regarding Photoshop and simple 3D blockmeshes to paint over. For long renders and few games I still have my destop pc at home which is more suited for that, as you pointed out.
Sounds like a good way of working to me without overcomplicating stuff.
The Macbook I tried today was a 13" late 2009 model but I'm pretty sure that I'll go with 15". The additional screen estate is nice to have and it's still good to carry with me.
Regarding zBrush - I wrote my buddy who confirmed this a message and will post the reply hopefully by tomorrow. Stay tuned!
Edit: He's using 10.10. The newest version available. Multithread stuff is activated and his Macbook behaves normally. CPU load keeps varying from 20 to 60 when he's sculpting, so everything sounds normal.
EarthQuake: Thanks tons for the reply! I knew that before but that model seems to be the first one where they actually "fixed" the problems you mentioned. Especially the fan control is quite good with this model.
Nonetheless I'll go with the Macbook as I stated in Thomasp' reply.
As for noisy fan, my fan will go a bit loud when I do sculpting in ZBrush (I am on the latest version of OSX). No matter how low/high your polycount is, the fan always starts to spin faster. Personally, I don't find it too distracting.
As for the size, I think a 15" retina is extremely portable and powerful. If you are not getting a retina Macbook, I think the weight will be too cumbersome to carry around.
I'm a huge fan of OSX and Macs so it's hard for me to make this recommendation but you may want to look into getting a high powered MSI or ASUS gaming laptop rather than a Macbook Pro Retina for serious 3D work. Or even a Lenovo with a 3D GPU. They will be cheaper and there is certain software like xNormal that does not have an OSX version. I run into that quite often and keep a VM on purpose for situations like this.
My Macbook Pro Retina is awesome but Apple does not have people like us in mind when they spec these machines out. They try to balance performance and battery life. There will be tradeoffs in terms of performance that only you will be able to determine are issues based on what you plan to use it for. I'm a newbie so my MBPr works great but I have no illusions that one day I will outgrow it. Or atleast I hope to.
1stand10: Thanks man but I think some of you are overeastimating my 3D use. I'm still a ConceptArtist mainly working in Photoshop. I've never heard of xNormal actually so I don't think I'll need it that fast in the future.
The 3D work I'm talking about is basically some basic blockmeshing for 2D scenes, sculpting in zBrush, basic prop modelling (guns, ...), ...
Overall the 3D part will probably only be ~30-40% on the device, if at all.
The rest is basically Photoshop all day.
Thanks!
i.e. avoid making a full level if you're still struggling to get a simple prop up to AAA quality, and you'll be fine with the resources your machine offers.
Once you got the basics covered, 1 or 2 years later, you might have some money saved up, and by then desktop PCs will be cheaper and more powerful than your laptop. By then you should have mastered the basics too, and are ready to move to bigger things. That's a good time to invest in a desktop PC. Until then a decent laptop should work for you.