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My Struggles As A 3D Artist

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Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
OK, so I really didn't know where else to post this.

I'm Fredrik Strom. And I'm trying to become a 3d artist.
I have a website. http://retrodungeon.net/?page_id=32 and a lot of problems.

I got 3 years of game-related education. I've made several projects. Run my own little company. Won an award, even. Still, I am no close to getting a video games industry job. I could really do with some advice, as I feel I have tried everything on my own. And it's all manifested itself into something of a derpession, low sense of self-worth and just utter agony. Gets hard to self-motivate.

I'd like to "break in" as they often say, but it's hard.
Not picky, either, applying for all manner of QA, community, semi-games related stuff. Also applying for non-game positions, but not having any luck there either.


I guess the problem I have is that I have a dream, but that I'm simply not good at it. I would really appreciate some help on this one. Not expecting magic, but hopefully some clue as to what to do, I guess.

Thanks!

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  • jermaineb
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    jermaineb polycounter lvl 13
    i definitely understand. i kinda still am in the same position, but have you had a particular company in mind you'd like to work for? perhaps targeting your portfolio towards that may prove better luck. Its also pretty tricky and generally trying to catch a break. Just gotta keep moving. Dont give up. Things hopefully will get better.
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks, man. I'm not picky, that's for sure. Willing to relocate. Do freelance/project work, even.

    Generally I am trying to get a job in the UK as that is where I currently am. (Has the benefit of me being able to come in for an interview) I've made a few attempts at targeted portfolios. Like the Lego example for instance was part of a big portfolio for a company doing Lego games. I'd like an art role, but hey, I'll do QA, even janitorial work.

    I would be open to internships, but I don't have the money to sustain myself during that period. Unless there's a magical trick I don't know about.


    It's just that I get nothing but declines. Don't even appear close. I attend every networking event. Talk to everyone I can over emails and twitter and Linkedin. Talk to careers services and recruitment agencies.


    Just comes down to me trying so hard over the span of 2 years and seeing no results.
  • Mike8917
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    Mike8917 polycounter lvl 10
    Hey man, I recently created a thread about something similar: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133249

    I currently have a job with a small indie team working as an environment artist. I too struggled with self-motivation and I felt as though my skills were really stagnating and I was being left behind. Most of this was due to working from home.

    I understand that it's a different situation to your current one, but I can understand your lack of self-motivation. I guess it's something that plagues everyone at some point :)

    I think the main thing is to not beat yourself up too much about it!

    I'm currently working on a side project of my own alongside paid work. I realized, following the advice I received from that thread, that I needed something to reignite my passion and get my creative juices flowing again, focusing less on a specific deadline, and more on just taking it to completion. I cannot tell you how much it has helped. It feels like I'm back in the land of the living, so to speak.

    I was so focused on trying to prove that I could stand shoulder to shoulder with everyone else, that I wasn't creating art for the right reasons. Perhaps you could try something like that? Try and simply do it for yourself. Try and forget about the jobs market, or trying to stay ahead or relevant, and just create something purely for it's own sake, and for yourself of course :)

    Just wanted to share my thoughts with you. I really recommend just skimming through the thread and having a look at what the others guys have said too. Hopefully some of it will resonate.

    Good luck! :)
  • Stromberg90
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    Stromberg90 polycounter lvl 11
    Being a norwegian myself, I know it is hard, but that's the same for everyone.
    One just have to work at it, spend as much time as you can improving :)
  • ng.aniki
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    ng.aniki polycounter lvl 13
    It took me about two years to get my first real job in video-games. It is indeed really hard to get your first contract. (So many video game schools, new artists on the job market, and people laid off. There are many people out there looking for the same job as you, and there are not many job offers)

    Here are some thoughs, it is not a guide or anything, but here is whatI think about this:

    First thing:
    I'd like an art role, but hey, I'll do QA, even janitorial work.
    This is not good man, who would want to hire you after reading this. If you have this mindset during interviews, you have no chance to get a job at all. You need to figure out what you want to do, clearly, exactly, set yourself an objective and move towards it. What is it you really want to do ?
    *Work on AAA games, modeling weapons ? >> Focus on getting better at this and build a real badass nextgen weapon portfolio.
    *Work on AAA games, working on environment ? >> Same thing, build a real badass nextgen scene, AAA quality, a complete scene with a good composition, lighting, postprocess, detailed texture, good materials, and optimized, on UDK or CryEngine. Find a totally epic concept art and try to reproduce it as best as possible. Pick something that could be used for a real game, do not try to be over-original by picking something to artsy. Find a concept that that could be used for a new AAA title.
    *Etc.

    Do not do small stuff. Aim high from the beginning. Aim higher than what you did until now, challenge yourself.

    Avoid doing something else until you have achieved your goal: One really nice, impressive portfolio scene if it is an environment, a set of really detailed high quality weapon models if you want to do weapons, etc. Work as if you were in an office, wake up at 7am, start working at 8am, work 8hours a day with a break for the lunch, and change your mind in the evening and weekends, spend some time with friends/family. Follow this every weekday; Getting lazy and procrastinating on internet is tempting, I know something about it, but you need to stick to your schedule.
    Do not rush things, you need to learn, practice, don't rush any model or texture, do everything as it would be part of an art test for a job. Go further than what you did until now, polish presentation (Can take up to 1/3 of the production time).

    If you succeed at creating a cool looking art piece that is close to current industry level, companies will be interested to hire you, this is just logic. If you do not succeed, figure out what skills you are missing and improve yourself, you can only get better. And start again, get to the industry level.

    If you have interviews, do not appear let down, do not show that you have been struggling (Say you have been working on other things in addition to your portfolio). They do not want to hire someone that is not confident that he can do the job or that is not motivated.


    If needed, you could find a job that has nothing to do with video games, to have some income and focus on your portfolio work in the evening (A lot of the work seen here on polycount is done in the evenings and in the weekends).

    Do not be scared to look for a job in unusual places: Eastern/Central Europe, Scandinavia, North Africa, Asia. Do not overlook small companies, there are often the first step of a career.
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Glad I'm not the only one, not that I thought I was.

    Land of the living's a pretty good analogy, because I won't lie.
    My desire to create has gradually just been destroyed. It's a basic consequence of, well, applying, applying and applying some more. Just getting declines. Seeing others do well. I can't help but feel, well, kinda like garbage. I look at what I made, the stuff I have on my site and it's... well, I'm not proud of it.

    Hard to not sound a bit melodramatic.
    At this point, I should probably just find a way to rekindle myself.
    I mean, I'd really love some help. Some contacts. Some info. But just getting going again would help me.


    Need a job though.
  • peanut™
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    peanut™ polycounter lvl 19
    I'm no way an expert in anything but your portfolio would look more game artist specialized if you focused your talent with something useful for game companies.

    What im trying to say is that at first glance, i see legos, a hatchet, an oldman. It fairly looks unorganized. If you worked on something you feel is good to show, well good, but dont post every mesh, texture, or clip you ever did. Try to raise the bar and only show your 'best' work.

    In some studios they are really short on vehicle and gun prop artists (let me repeat it again) "short on vehicle and gun prop artist". Why not revamp your folio and flood it with those pieces and ditch the rest. I can certainly say you have some talent, but the website arrangement pretty much looks like you're 15 yo.

    Here's a good example of a website with a nice layout and something useful for game co to look at.

    ====> http://www.racer445.com/
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Hey, ng.aniki. Well, have to admit I am speaking on a very bad day and letting it all out, heh.

    The intention of the statment was my flexibility. Really, if I had said I was gunning for one specific role, people would tell me to compromise and aim lower.
    Confidence, in a professional setting, I have no problem with. Even had interview training and handled clients professionally. My issue is never getting to the interview stage. Speaking on a personal level, to fellow creators here.
    I'll try something like that, though. More portfolio projects.

    peanut™ 's example is pretty darn good. I see your point. Oddly, though, I've been told to have a diverse portfolio as well. 0_0 But I'll take that example and polycount over careers service advice.

    Wow, really got the ball rolling here. Glad to just be talking. It's certainly making me think what I can do instead of what I can't.
  • slosh
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    slosh hero character
    I think it's key to specify your portfolio as much as possible and then do amazing work in that specific category. In your case, pick a focus of character or environments, maybe fx, animation, whatever...just pick one. Then create one amazing piece in that focus first. And when I say amazing, find something that is the BEST and try to hit that bar as close as you can. Have people on here critique it so you do something amazing. Once you get that first amazing piece done, each one after will be easier and much better than the last. After you do a few, start applying again. You will be more confident and your portfolio will reflect that too.
  • peanut™
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    peanut™ polycounter lvl 19
    Oddly, though, I've been told to have a diverse portfolio as well. 0_0 But I'll take that example and polycount over careers service advice.

    Wow, really got the ball rolling here. Glad to just be talking. It's certainly making me think what I can do instead of what I can't.


    Don't have a diverse folio, aim for "useful" instead, remember that its a way to get a job "gig" you can switch instrument once you made it.

    Remember, if you want a date, you have to seduce the girl first ;)
  • Ehren
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    Ehren polycounter lvl 9
    focus and work hard man. NEVER fucking give up.
  • theSixtyEight
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    theSixtyEight polycounter lvl 7
    Ng.aniki had some really nice points, if i were you, i would do this:
    1.buy website for your pfolio (yourname.com or yournickname.com but makesure its somehow memorable and doesnt sound like "proskiller264.com"
    2.setup your goals....if u wanna be hard surface artits, start off with hs(for believable materials, go out and study how they look/behave, this helps a lott!), if you wanna do enviroments, do enviroments(study lighting, moods, propwork), if stylised, do stylised.....
    3. Choose pfolio projects....make something u like to create...for example i love vss vintorez weapon and so i made one for my pfolio, with lots of passion
    4. Review your work here on polycount, get feedback and improove
    5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 untill satisfied with ur work
    6.make professional looking pfolio (really invest here)


    This is at least how i did it, hope it helps
  • David3D.The
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    I don't want to hi-jack this thread but I'm in exactly the same position. I graduated from University in a relevant 3D course in 2012 and have since been trying to find a job as a 3D artist working on my portfolio every day and trying to focus on the variety of different tips and tricks everyone says you need to stand out but I haven't had any luck at all after so long. Obviously there's some good advice here already but if anyone could give me some feedback on my portfolio too I'd appreciate it but in the meantime OP I feel your pain. :(

    Just to add some advice that I've tried to follow (not that I can say it works obviously)

    Like others have said, focus your portfolio. Most companies especially big companies will hire very specific people for very specific jobs if the job is environments you want to have lots of variation of environments. Having characters, guns, environments all in the same portfolio tends to distract and make the person hiring not know where they could place you.

    Make connections, the games industry is pretty small especially in the UK and you never know who you might know who ends up working somewhere you want to work. I've known people to put in a good word and get results so making friends can be a good way to get recognized.

    Constantly scout the competition. It can be a little disheartening but if you apply for a job as a Junior artist you need to look at other junior artists out there and what their portfolio looked like. If yours isn't as good as theirs then likely thats why they have a job and you don't. Set your standards high and aim to be better than those people. Its not always possible and some people have more time than others to make amazing stuff but unfortunately the truth there's a lot of people out there who are good and a lot of people who are willing to do anything to do what they love.

    This may seem kind of harsh but like I said I'm in the same position and I'm constantly aware I need to be better than I am now if I want to get a job so I know how you're feeling.
  • Aerial_Knight
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    Aerial_Knight polycounter lvl 8
    I think many of these comments are good and are trying to be helpful but I went to school for this for 4 years and have been looking for 2 years. I still haven't found anything and its really depressing to the point that I want to give up. But spent a week cleaning my portfolio, printed some cards and spent all the money I had to go to GDC, I found some leads but not a job. but it made me feel better about the whole thing. So I would say just try going out to events and talking to people, it helps and gets you seen.
  • Noren
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    Noren polycounter lvl 19
    peanut™ wrote: »
    I can certainly say you have some talent, but the website arrangement pretty much looks like you're 15 yo.
    Harsh but true.

    Keep in mind anything on your website can be held against you.
    Also think more from the perspective of the user/viewer
    Programming is a valuable skill, but more so for smaller companies.

    Decide what you absolutely want to show and what might be better mentioned in your CV.
    If you include a game, make sure it's not x clicks away and the user knows at all time what he has to do. If the loading times are long, rather provide a video.

    Ninja Game: Doesn't look too great, doesn't help you.

    Raccountant: Sounds fun and interesting. Is worth to be mentioned and maybe to show a screenshot. Long loading times. Didn't react until I switched tabs away and back. Gameplay functional, but I don't know what to do and immediately lose interest.
    Maybe the wordplay in the title and the character are the strongest points, here?
    So showing a screenshot and mentioning the title would help you more, but depending on were you apply not as part of your main portfolio but in an extra paragraph for additional skills.

    Deep sea: Sounds interesting, but needs installation. Wouldn't put artwork in the main portfolio. (I'm guessing the floating people are screenshots from the game.)
    The beaver is kind of funny, but not really relevant as a portfolio piece for a game artist position.

    Retro Dungeons: Two clicks away. The award is worth mentioning, but I'd do it in the CV,where people can't immediately compare to their own experience with the game.
    Game didn't seem to load, didn't react to any input. Maybe because raccountant was still open. Later it worked by pressing enter.Which kind of makes sense in the context. Still, this should be told to the user, or he should be allowed to simply click on the start button. Together with the loading error, people might never get past the opening screen.
    Gameplay is functional but seems unrefined and unforgiving. I quit after the second death.
    We are told how to move but are expected to know how to jump. Lifting boxes up by pressing and holding E while having to use WASD and the mouse at the same time doesn't seem very sensible.

    I'm on my break right now, was curious and had to kill some time.
    Maybe someone at a company you apply to is in a similar situation.
    In that case he very well might have given up somewhere along the way.
    A less curious HR person at a bigger company who isn't on their own time would probably not have made it past the first link, if any link at all, because they are not relevant for them.

    @Diversity: It's not bad to show you can do different things and basically your portfolio shows just that.
    But one or two decent pieces per topic is just not enough, especially if there is no main theme. If you have one, then you can maybe put things like the paper hut or beaver in. They are not bad, they bring a design aspect into the mix, but they are not relevant for many of the jobs out there.
    (But personally I wouldn't choose a certain focus just to get a job. Pick one that you're actually interested in. )

    Right now your portfolio looks a bit scarce.
    I don't doubt that you have gathered useful skills over the last years, but again they have been only partly relevant to many game artist positions out there.
    So you are still kind of "fresh".

    I don't know what kind of positions you have been applying for, but maybe take a minute and really think about what you want to do as a job and focus on that from now on. On the other hand maybe you are just not that kind of person who likes to focus on just one thing and execute other peoples ideas and maybe you have been looking in the wrong places.
    A person like that might be more valuable and happier working in a smaller studio.
    Maybe! I think it's also valuable to get to know the pipeline and environment of a bigger company. (Compared to e.g. jumping into freelance work right now. )

    Also you might have to start very small when you absolutely have to, e.g. with a paid internship.(Better than QA.)
    Your time spent developing on your own shows you can go through with things, but it might also mean that you need to learn to work in a group (again).

    Provide meaningful breakdowns of your pieces. ( A "skinned" lego figure tells me very little. )
    The warrior piece seems to want to hide more than it shows.
    The different environments for the gun also add very little.
  • Drav
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    Drav polycounter lvl 9
    To be completely honest, your portfolio isnt good enough.

    You need some better pieces on there, but the good news is, I think youre not far off....I would keep making small props, but really focus on quality, especially really getting the materials to look just right. Racer 445 had some very good tutorials on thinking about materials from a texturing point of view.

    Once youve got to a stage where you can produce really good quality stuff, then think about bigger things.

    Dont be disheartened tho, I kinda think you need a better portfolio for your first job than at any other time!

    Best of luck
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Right, a lot of valid and good critique here. Think I understand the problem.

    I am going to propose a solution, tell me what you think.


    Starting next week I am going to go strictly character artist focus.
    And I will begin work by spending next week doing prep anatomy work for a full character I intend to start production on the week after that. Basically, set up a focused character project. Uni's wrapping up this week and there's Ludum Dare as well this week.

    I will make a thread here on polycount, "My Character Artist Journey" and I will post step-by-steps and ask for help. "How do I do hair?", "How does the skin shader in Marmoset Toolbag work?" that kinda thing. Sound like a plan?





    I don't want to excuse myself any here, but it's just odd that when I started my education, you know what I was told? That generalists were the best. Guys who knew a bit of everything. That's sorta what I tried, heh. But I really do see your guys' point. I will try to remedy myself. Hope I can count on some helpful advice and critique.
  • huffer
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    huffer interpolator
    I think doing characters needs a deep understanding of anatomy, that one develops in years - years of sketching, sculpting, modeling. If you haven't studied it before it's going to take a lot of time to get to a level you're happy with (or a future employer is happy with), not to mention reaching a level where you can work fast for production.
  • alexk
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    alexk polycounter lvl 12
    Your portfolio is your life blood as an artist. That's the bottom line. I can't stress this enough. If you're not getting responses from applications, then you need to improve your portfolio. Look at the folio's of those who are hired compared to those that aren't. There is a big difference in quality, focus and skill level. You need to begin to see this difference and be honest with yourself when your work doesn't match up. You need to set the bar to match those who are hired and what you see in a currently shipped game. You need to show an employer that you are capable of creating a shippable asset that is related to your specialty, whether it is environment, character, weapons or vehicles.

    After portfolio, geographic location also affects your chances, but with a great portfolio, it can at least give you the possibility of working outside of your home country if you're fine with relocating. Or start freelancing from home.

    ng.aniki has great advice. Although, I don't fully agree with going big with every scene. Sometimes it's better to do a small asset in order to practice and learn a technique than trying to learn with a huge scene or asset. Smaller assets and scenes allow you to spend more time on a single subject and can allow you to hone in and improve on things you struggle on. You can learn a lot from a simple garbage can asset if you decide to go the full distance on it, like high poly model, low poly model and bake, texture and import into a game engine and light.

    Lastly, just throwing this out there. Why not just focus on your indie games? Get a 9 to 5 job that pays the bills and just do indie games. Even I have plans on getting into indie development. As great as a it is to get into the industry, you'll be working for someone else. If you make indie games, you work for yourself
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    huffer
    Prop artist, then?
  • Mark Dygert
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    I haven't read the rest of the thread so some of this may have come up already. I also apologize if this seems brutal, I really am trying to help. Most of this is stuff I wish I heard when I was in your position.


    Location maters, a lot.
    Being close to an active development hub will greatly improve your chances of getting hired. Really good artists get hired but normally only if they're local, for a place to hire someone farther away they have to be amazing and even then they might lose out to a lesser artist who is local. I'm not saying move, but it's going to be a pretty big factor and if you aren't local you really need to outshine everyone else.


    When in doubt, leave it out.
    When I first opened your page I saw the axe and shield and thought, ok these are pretty good, show me more. But then scrolled down and the grumpy/lumpy old guy who was holding them immediately lowered my perception of those objects.

    You're work shows a lot of progress and I bet you're in a place where you could confidently build a lot of things. But you don't actually want your portfolio to show how far you've come, only the best of what you can do. When you show weak pieces it makes people wonder:
    If this is the best, what did they throw out?
    Can they not critique their own art?
    Do they think everything they make is great?
    When they are asked to make changes will it be a big deal?


    Confusion and focus
    I had a hard time understanding the weird otter thing.
    Was it game art?
    Why was it flat shaded, is it CG art?
    Was it unwrapped?
    What is it doing in a game art portfolio?
    How does this relate to the job I'm hiring for?
    Oh great... a broney... and lego guys with way too many polys in all the wrong places and bad materials, ouch.
    What is the focus here?
    How does this persons passions align with the job I am hiring for?
    What are this persons passions? I honestly don't know...


    Picking and ordering your pieces
    You're only as good as your weakest piece and you're drowning in weak pieces that seem like your first attempts from years ago. The further I scrolled the less confident I became and the worse the axe and shield looked when I scrolled back up. It didn't end strong and it degraded what originally impressed me.

    I've seen a lot of successful portfolios start off with the 1st strongest piece, show the 3rd and finish with the 2nd.


    Going forward
    Personally I think you should salvage nothing, throw it all out. Take the skills that you have right now which are the highest they've ever been and start fresh with a new project and finish it before you show it to anyone.

    Then start another project, finish it and use that project as a base for your new portfolio.
  • ZombieWells
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    ZombieWells polycounter lvl 12
    So this is going to be sort, and honest, and a bit hard to hear. if you want more in-depth advice just let me know. This should work for you too David, well the principle of it anyhow... and this is really easy to do! look at your portfolio. Now compare what you have on your site to someone that is already in the industry

    URL="http://www.torfrick.com/"]http://www.torfrick.com/[/URL]
    or
    http://polygoo.com/

    and here are some more.

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92838

    You can clearly see there is a HUGE difference in quality and subject matter. Your subject matter, an ax, a shield, misc., pony stuffs, and Lego stuffs; and a total of nine examples of what you can do after 3 years in, and learning 3D space... ummmmm. Focus in on what you want to do. Weapons, Environments etc. (people have already said as much) make it challenging! hardcore awesome! Like those people that already have jobs! Not something anyone could do in a few hours... ax, or pony. BOTTOM LINE is your current portfolio will do very little to get you a job. I am not expecting you to remake Tor's site, but if you get half way there, half that quality bar, then that job is likely yours!

    David looks like your shot gunning your work, and lowering that quality bar when you don't need to. Focus up, do some sweet looking props,(hardsurface challenge is nice practice). Once again there nothing on your sight that looks challenging, most of the props could be made in less then 30 min. Don't show a WIP on your front page... never. Make a section for it until its done. Your Skyrim stuff is the strongest. Your textures need to improve/push pull, break up. Study good textures! and your environments need break ups. Things look flat, squint your eyes when you look at them... and do the same with Tor's you'll see the difference. Still, your on the right path!!! It looks like your working hard which is the best start to have. Also you have focus which is clearly environment work, so there's another step knocked out ;) It just really needs that quality bar push badly.

    Both of you can do this, it just takes time a practice. Honest feed back, post here on polycount. I hope this helped.

    alexk just beat me to it ;)

    Going forward
    Personally I think you should salvage nothing, throw it all out and start fresh with a new project- I agree, but post WIPs on PC.
  • Cglewis
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    Cglewis polycounter lvl 12
    You need to do what makes you happy....pick something and just grind it out...

    you need to eat sleep and breathe your projects....its going to take a while and lot of hard work but if its your passion you cant short change your self

    im still on that journey and passion to make games my self, Currently I'm doing 3D for a sim company which is great bc its in the same vein as games but...not really...which is why im always working on my portfolio, im not saying its the best, and it could sure use some work...but at the end of the day its for the joy of doing 3d....its for the passion of making games and telling stories with your work....my advice....is get a job in the sim field you'll be doing 3d work and itll pay better than the euro equivalent of walmart

    i would crit on your work but i cant see it due to int restrictions....but man pick what you love and just go balls to the wall crank it and make sure YOUR happy with what you doing...if you want to do characters then by all means do it...but YOU have to put in the work.....just because its a lot of work doesnt mean you should shy away from it......

    I hope this helps
  • ScrotieFlapWack
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    ScrotieFlapWack polycounter lvl 5
    I can't really offer much advise as I am a newbie and I haven't even tried to apply for a job as I am still working on my own portfolio to express my skills. I am also still learning but I suppose I've had the same experience as yourself in a way.

    Learning all this new stuff that comes with modelling and texturing and all the game engines I've looked at. It's taken time for me to get used to and understand and it's been a stressful journey for me and I've had doubts about wanting to do this as a career but you want to persevere. Stick with it and don't give up.

    I work in a job at the moment that I hate with a passion. I can't stand working where I work and this is what has lead me to wanting this career. It can be difficult looking for work and getting yourself out there but you want a niche (as clich
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Haha, dear lord this exploded all of the sudden.

    OK, current work = Crap.
    Throw in ditch, pour gasoline, ignite.
    That's been pretty well established with the repeated mention of harsh, but true.

    Now I just gotta figure out what to do, really.
    Having now scrapped it all, sorta wondering what I can do.



    Keep advice coming. I just gotta ponder a while and try to not feel bad about my inadequacies.
  • David3D.The
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    ZombieWells, when you say shot gunning my work and lowering the quality when I don' need too, what do you mean?
    I do agree that none of it looks like it was challenging, maybe I need to start making bigger more impressive things.
  • Mark Dygert
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    What to do now? It really depends on your passion.

    Dystopian urban decay has been pretty hot for a while and allows you a lot of freedom and I personally like it.
    If it interests you, hit up sites like opacity.us and pick a simple scene and go to town, but don't bite off a huge project like a a whole location, go small.

    Hitting up the current, past or future monthly noob challenge can give you some structure as well as some great ideas.
  • Tobbo
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    Tobbo polycounter lvl 11
    Along with what has been said about the portfolio site. I would also work on presenting your work better. Buy Marmoset Toolbag 2 and learn the PBR workflow. The lighting and presentation are literally dragging your work down.

    Also try and separate your materials more. Wood should read differently than metal. You have to show it by more than just making the metal be a different diffuse color than the wood. There has to be a distinction with the gloss and spec values. PBR has made this much easier to achieve with reflective and roughness maps.

    I would also really try and specify your work more. You are diversifying way too much and spreading yourself way too thin. Somebody who is more specified than you are can run circles around you because you're giving up the time you could be using to get really good at something specific and are instead trying to be the best at several things.

    Choose RIGHT NOW a direction that you want to go in and run with it. For example, environment, props, weapons, characters, special fx, etc. Choose the area that you love doing the most. You will excel in that the fastest.

    If you decide that you want to do environments or level design, I'd recommend picking up UE4. You can pay $19 and then cancel your subscription and continue using UE4 even after your subscription expires. You just won't be able to get any updates until you subscribe again. UE4 also makes use of a PBR workflow.

    Here are some links for Marmoset Toolbag 2 and some awesome PBR information to help you get started.

    https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/store
    https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn

    Edit: This thread has exploded since I wrote this.
  • Mark Dygert
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    ZombieWells, when you say shot gunning my work and lowering the quality when I don' need too, what do you mean?
    I do agree that none of it looks like it was challenging, maybe I need to start making bigger more impressive things.
    I don't mean to speak for ZombieWells but what I get out of what they said, was that you're scope was too broad, too scatter shot and spread out all over the place. You should probably focus and refine some things.
  • David3D.The
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    So make less but make it better?
  • ScrotieFlapWack
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    ScrotieFlapWack polycounter lvl 5
    Make a list of what art YOU like. Take down notes of effects/details you like. This will help you mix and match styles to work up something unique.

    Worn and torn look.
    Underground worlds.
    Indoor run down environments.
    Antique/old look.

    Think of all the things you like in art. The things you think are good looking. Then get sketching!

    Make some rough sketches of scenes or items (old abandoned houses/post apocalyptic scenes.)

    Once you have some idea elaborate on that as much as you can. Keep us updated would love to see what you get!
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Alright. Going to need a bit of research/introspection time on this.

    Gonna review the posted portfolio sites. See what I want, what I can do and make a plan. Then post it here.
  • David3D.The
  • Mark Dygert
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    So make less but make it better?
    I don't think you need to throw anything out, I think you're on a good track and have some strong pieces. Wherever you apply you want to show something like what they do, that similar piece is probably the only thing that will interest them and the more pieces that you have that align to what they do the better off you'll be.

    If you're applying all over showing a wide range is probably best, so urban, fantasy sci-fi and props are probably a safe bet, but it can disguise your passion a bit and it looks like you're applying all over instead of focusing on something that they are making.

    It is kind of hard to tell which you really like to do the most. Matching that passion to the job is critical when hiring and if its hard to tell, you might get tossed in the maybe pile over someone with a more clearly aligned passion.
  • David3D.The
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    I'm not sure I follow, so if I really like fantasy I should make lots of fantasy scenes over a variety of scenes? The problem is you can't really afford to dedicate your entire portfolio to one job. Applying for 100 jobs may still not get you noticed by any of them so having a portfolio which has a variety of things seemed like the best option.

    Obviously I could do with more variety still but that will come with time as I have removed old, worse projects from my site.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Hi there LN,
    There is a lot of good advice in this thread already, so I'll just repeat it ... in a more visual manner.

    This is how you presented your Lego pieces :
    lego_characters_by_littlenorwegians-d6vly6v.png.jpg


    But this is how you *should* be presenting them :
    5400108-The-LEGO-Movie-Video-game-Reveal-Trailer.jpg

    1802-0e241b33_680_400.jpg

    In other words : know your target, then aim for it or higher !
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    I getcha, pior.
    And I'll do what I can to improve.

    Hopefully, I'll eventually get something right.
  • ScrotieFlapWack
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    ScrotieFlapWack polycounter lvl 5
    You've already got it right dude. It is just a case of slight improvement. Some more advise as well (even though there is already tons in here :P).

    Next job you go for, IF, you do get rejected ask them why they are rejecting you.

    Get some feedback from them so you know what area's to improve on.
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks, mate.

    Having reviewed portfolio sites such as http://polygoo.com/ and others, I have decided that I want and should aim to be a props artist. Fair point was brought up in regards to characters. And I like doing tinkery, world detail stuff.

    To achieve this, I aim to do props projects regularly and post them on Polycount for critique and advice.


    I'm writing a work schedule. Set hours designated to project. With at least 1 update post each day here. I look forward to feedback and improvment.

    What I am still trying to decide on are, what kind of props. How best to integrate or even theme them into my portfolio. (Basically, trying to see through potential employers' eyes)

    Frick, I'll even take advice on what kinda props that would be good to start with.
    Heh, I consider yourself good advice givers. Currently just browsing, seeing what other peoples have done. From sofas, to guns to sci-fi objects.
    I have Zbrush, Marmoset Toolbag 2.0 and tablet + good hardware PC. So gear is check. And I am getting a bit more "can do" spirit. Which is good since as I mentioned I'm having somewhat of a depression.
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    Hey man, best of luck in your job search. I think you are far enough a long now that you can definitely land a job if you keep working at it.

    One thing I don't understand is when people say they lost motivation. Maybe I'm just totally Obsessive Compulsive myself, but when it comes to something I truly love my my main issue is focusing on one thing (and see it thru to the end) because I am inspired to do Everything! Motivation never has been an issue for me because I love the process itself so much.

    I understand that rejection from companies hurts and what you are going thru their (I went thru the same thing for 2 years) but if you love working on your art you should want to keep creating no matter what everyone else thinks about it. No matter how many rejections.

    I think you have some good advice already on how to get a job in this thread, I just wanted to mention this so you can maybe do some soul searching and ask yourself if this really is your passion. Life isn't going to be a fairy tale once you do land a job, so its really important you doing this for the right reasons. I hope the answer is yes, because you have accomplished a lot already. Again, good luck dude!
  • melviso
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    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    I get what u are going through.Right now,I am researching and I am always comparing my work with professional artists here and I am fully aware of how much I need to get better.I always try to improve and even if I am told it looks good.I still feel its not good enough.

    Thats why I haven't uploaded any animations or digital art on my sites for a long time now as I am researching and trying to be better than everyone here.Yes..its possible.The people here making these wonderful stuff are human beings like u and I.What's set them apart is the hardwork and dedication towards developing an eye for what's professional and working towards it which has given them experience and a solid knowledgebase. Research is the key and ability to accept criticism no matter how brutal and improve.
    I have actually been inspired and motivated by reading this thread.Thanks for posting.
  • ScrotieFlapWack
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    ScrotieFlapWack polycounter lvl 5
    That is great news man really glad to hear it!

    I would recommend on starting with writing a story for your prop. Going back to originality, you want to make sure that you make your prop have that 'WOW factor'.

    Here is an idea for you to start off with, this does need to be your own vision though.

    Theme: Sci -Fi/Fantasy.
    Prop name: <this is up to you to decide>
    Appearance: Light and shape, these are your objectives for the prop.

    Just from those small details you can work up an idea for some props, you could have some magical crystal that emits light which gives powers of immortality.

    You can have some futuristic sphere object that flies around its environment and uses lasers to scan its surroundings.

    Just some idea's to get your started. Remember your two appearance objectives. Shape and light. Play around with those idea's along with your theme of Sci - Fi and Fantasy and you should come up with some nice concepts for your props.
  • Mark Dygert
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    I'm not sure I follow, so if I really like fantasy I should make lots of fantasy scenes over a variety of scenes? The problem is you can't really afford to dedicate your entire portfolio to one job. Applying for 100 jobs may still not get you noticed by any of them so having a portfolio which has a variety of things seemed like the best option.

    Obviously I could do with more variety still but that will come with time as I have removed old, worse projects from my site.
    Most places aren't looking for a wide range of styles, they are looking for someone who is deeply passionate about the style they create.

    An outsourcer will probably want to hire someone with variety but a specific studio that has a style to maintain probably wants people who are jazzed about that style, over people who like variety or who are kind of aimless in their focus, looking for something, anything that is even remotely related.

    I could be wrong because I don't work there but, Blizzard isn't going to call up and say they are impressed with your wide range of unrelated pieces, they'll be interested in the handful of things that you did in their style.

    Maybe I'm more methodical but I try to avoid sending out massive batches of applications, it's too easy to make a mistake and being robotic about first contact often leaves the person on the other end cold.
    Dear sir and or Madam and or fellow robot,
    I am a applying to 44021 places simultaneously so please give me 7-10 business days to process any and all future communications.
    ~BIIZZT~

    HIRE ME!
    Thank you.
    I lean toward the approach that targets a single company and tailor your portfolio to what they want to see and go for it. If you send out a lot of emails and you end up getting a lot of responses back you could be drowning in replies and art tests. This is going to sound incredibly egotistical and pompous, but so far I've gotten every job I have ever applied for and here's the kicker, I'm pretty sure I beat out other artists that where better in some areas. Not being a robot and proving to them that I was a good fit on every level really helped me.

    A studio wants to get someone who can technically do the job sure, but more important they want someone who is a good fit. That means they aren't just doing the job for a paycheck or "because it's sort of in a related field of study" kind of way, but that the person is creating the style they love and really want to pursue it.

    Most of the decent studios want you to be happy so you do a good job and matching the persons passion and talent to the right job is critical.
  • tynew
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    tynew polycounter lvl 9
    peanut™ wrote: »
    In some studios they are really short on vehicle and gun prop artists (let me repeat it again) "short on vehicle and gun prop artist".

    I don't mean to nit-pick, but where did you get the info on that?
  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 10
    When studios are short of people who can make guns I have probably retired and im not even out of school yet
  • peanut™
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    peanut™ polycounter lvl 19
    tynew wrote: »
    I don't mean to nit-pick, but where did you get the info on that?

    Oh my bad! i forgot to post my sources. Ask someone i know. He can fill you up on this.

    Look it up !! ;)
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Hm, just on the train of thought about targeting and shining in one area.
    What categories are there really a market need?

    Would being an expert in making animals and nature be a good motif, for instance? Plan to make some animals and organic tree/rock models. Just asking.

    Guns are cool and all. And I'm probably gonna make better guns, but I can't help but feel they make you blur more than stick out in a applicant crowd.
  • Vertrucio
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    Vertrucio greentooth
    Stop posting in this thread and start working on models.

    If you post one more time in this topic without first posting a new WIP thread for a model based on one of the many good suggestions already, then it means you're really not serious about getting better, and instead are just looking only to chat and get a bit of pity. Your questions, including this latest one, have already been asked and answered, thousands of times over.

    Improvement means getting back to the grind. It means that no matter what you've done, you recognize that you can be better and you work at it before you do anything else.

    Doesn't matter what you model, if it's good, it will get noticed.
  • ng.aniki
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    ng.aniki polycounter lvl 13
    Well, I guess that being an Expert in any area could be a good point. But being an expert means really above average. It gets more interesting with more difficult areas, like hyper realistic vegetation, etc.

    But know that specializing that much will also close doors from you. An animal specialist has nothing to do on a project without animals, and a tree/rock specialist has nothing to do on a scifi game, for example.
    So I do not think it is the best idea.
    Whatever you are going for, once your first high quality portfolio piece is finished, attack another one but change the universe a bit. If the HR can feel that you are comfortable with different style/universe, he will be more likely to hire you (They also think about future project that might be different than the current one).


    I did not hear about any specific area that the marked is needing. But I think that some profiles are less common, for example technical artist.

    Also, keep in mind that mid-sized studios (50-100 employees) working on AAA game are likely to use outsourcing more and more for their assets. Those studios are more likely to hire autonomous people, understanding the whole pipeline on a wide range of assets and style, with good technical and managing skills. And they leave all the hardcore highpoly models and textures to outsourcing studios in Asia.
  • Littlenorwegians
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    Littlenorwegians polycounter lvl 8
    Rock2.png
    Alright, Vertrucio. Just want to start on the right foot as me doing without thinking has been a problem.

    OK, rocks. I am doing rocks. Starting with rocks. Rocks of all kinds. I will make big rocks, small rocks, concrete, organic, textured and rendered. This is my start.

    Let's take it from here. Look at my rock. Ponder it. Then help me with advice, tips, tutorials and what have you.

    Sound good? :)
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